27 of 42, 462 yards, 7 TDs 0 INTs

[Fx Stryker]

Peyton only scored an 83.61 QBR last night. Which is worse than last season. So his performance last night was worse than his average game last season.

 

What is wrong with that system? I really want to know the formula...

[DILLIGAFER]

I think the main difference is Brady has taken mediocre talent and made them great whereas Manning has had great talent that he has made even greater. Splitting hairs really. I am not sure how much you can read into week 1. Long season and Denver's D did not look very good last night for almost three quarters and that was with Flacco missing most of his talent from last year. I certainly won't read much into the Pats if they demolish the Bills which most are expecting.

Just when I think you couldnt possibly state anything more False.. you prove me wrong.

[tonychen]

Peyton only scored an 83.61 QBR last night. Which is worse than last season. So his performance last night was worse than his average game last season.

 

What is wrong with that system? I really want to know the formula...

 

His completion percentage was low last night. Although there are many big plays, the passing game did not look as smooth as it used to be at the end of last season, and it took them the entire 1st half to find some rhythm. Still they had many 3-and-outs in the 2nd half that they could have moved the ball forward and controlled the clock. Also Manning missed D Thomas many times which he should generally connect. Clearly this offense was not clicking at all cylinders but it was only the 1st game of the season.

 

The scary thing is this is perhaps a 70% of what they are really capable of doing and it is already 7 TDs a game.

[Moose Of Woe]

Peyton only scored an 83.61 QBR last night. Which is worse than last season. So his performance last night was worse than his average game last season.

 

What is wrong with that system? I really want to know the formula...

 

141.1  officially

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/profile

 

Most likely the # you got was from a site that factors in things such as sacks more heavily.

[bayone]

Peyton only scored an 83.61 QBR last night. Which is worse than last season. So his performance last night was worse than his average game last season.

 

What is wrong with that system? I really want to know the formula...

 

it was because of his 11 for 19 start , QBR was in low 70's , 2nd half   mid   90's some show said so average for game total was what u say, at least 141.1 QB rating, just that bad completion % from game start but averaged over 10 yards per attempt

 

Did u hear Peytons routine precisely  X minutes of pregame  team warm ups and x minutes of   nothing before game starts, 3 game delays and 3 times making a team prayer and about to go out but called back, well just threw things off, he wasnt saying that was why they were rusty in first half but what a routine each & every game. I am one putting the routine in with the delay as saying rust a possibility till shook it off

[bayone]

141.1  officially

http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/profile

 

Most likely the # you got was from a site that factors in things such as sacks more heavily.

 

 http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr  tells a how do qbr  & was that low 70's in first half when went 11-19 for  mid 90's upper half, see  my comment above

 

also put mouse over column for more details

 

Flaccos  QB rating   69.4  QBR was 34.4   

 

 

Peyton only scored an 83.61 QBR last night. Which is worse than last season. So his performance last night was worse than his average game last season.

 

What is wrong with that system? I really want to know the formula...

[tonychen]

it was because of his 11 for 19 start , QBR was in low 70's , 2nd half   mid   90's some show said so average for game total was what u say, at least 141.1 QB rating, just that bad completion % from game start but averaged over 10 yards per attempt

 

Did u hear Peytons routine precisely  X minutes of pregame  team warm ups and x minutes of   nothing before game starts, 3 game delays and 3 times making a team prayer and about to go out but called back, well just threw things off, he wasnt saying that was why they were rusty in first half but what a routine each & every game. I am one putting the routine in with the delay as saying rust a possibility till shook it off

 

He did miss several throws and 3rd down conversions that he could have made when he's in mid-season form. D Thomas only figured it out in the 2nd half and Decker was dreaming all night. Still this team was too talented to lose.

[chad72]

One thing I can say is this Denver O-line is a better pass protecting O-line than run blocking one and the matchups have to be right to run against the better AFC teams. Ravens and Steelers along with Patriots are harder units to run against, so it will be on Peyton's arm eventually thus requiring the Denver D to make more plays in the playoffs to give Peyton's arm some room for error.

 

Compared to the Colts era, the aggressive nature of the Denver D with all players healthy is the biggest X factor that will decide Denver's fate in the playoffs, even if it is opportunistic plays.

[bayone]

He did miss several throws and 3rd down conversions that he could have made when he's in mid-season form. D Thomas only figured it out in the 2nd half and Decker was dreaming all night. Still this team was too talented to lose.

 

Decker apparently hurt shoulder at some point, Holiday his leg, Brruton ankle , and woodwood ankle due to Danny T dropping pick 6 ball and woodwood went for it but stockley dove to and buckled it, came back but they said was in zone not man for man due to ankle, with 10 day rest hopefully OK , will be evaluated to make sure not worse then they think, his back up Paris was horrible

[tonychen]

One thing I can say is this Denver O-line is a better pass protecting O-line than run blocking one and the matchups have to be right to run against the better AFC teams. Ravens and Steelers along with Patriots are harder units to run against, so it will be on Peyton's arm eventually thus requiring the Denver D to make more plays in the playoffs to give Peyton's arm some room for error.

 

Compared to the Colts era, the aggressive nature of the Denver D with all players healthy is the biggest X factor that will decide Denver's fate in the playoffs, even if it is opportunistic plays.

 

compared with Colts era Denver surrounds Manning with more talents on offense. Players like Clark and Stokley are made into stars by Manning while D Thomas and Decker were already playmakers even when Tebow was the QB. Not to mention the Colts OL after 07 declined into mediocre.

[Goodtimes]

I wanted Manning to stay but this is the best case scenario...

 

Andrew Luck is so good.....and so much like Peyton......who teams with John Elway...a wonderful merger

 

Luck will throw 7 TDs one day..

 

I mean,..come on..Joe Kapp did it, right?

 

I think Peyton is more likely to throw seven again this year than Luck is to ever doing it.

[bayone]

One thing I can say is this Denver O-line is a better pass protecting O-line than run blocking one and the matchups have to be right to run against the better AFC teams. Ravens and Steelers along with Patriots are harder units to run against, so it will be on Peyton's arm eventually thus requiring the Denver D to make more plays in the playoffs to give Peyton's arm some room for error.

 

Compared to the Colts era, the aggressive nature of the Denver D with all players healthy is the biggest X factor that will decide Denver's fate in the playoffs, even if it is opportunistic plays.

 

 

What run blocking, i didnt see any

[-JJ-]

Me neither. Suffice to say compared to the likes of Welker they're both pretty irrelevant.

 

The only reason Klecko stands out was because of his TD catch in the Indy/Pats game where it looked like a beached whale was rolling in to the end zone.

lol- I remember that catch- alas he's a Dlinemen:)

[bayone]

The Broncos had no running game. It's, ahem, a work in progress

 

. By taking a knee to kill the final seven seconds of the second quarter, Manning was Denver's third-leading rusher in the opening half.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_24029192/deep-six-manning

 

One thing I can say is this Denver O-line is a better pass protecting O-line than run blocking one and the matchups have to be right to run against the better AFC teams. Ravens and Steelers along with Patriots are harder units to run against, so it will be on Peyton's arm eventually thus requiring the Denver D to make more plays in the playoffs to give Peyton's arm some room for error.

 

Compared to the Colts era, the aggressive nature of the Denver D with all players healthy is the biggest X factor that will decide Denver's fate in the playoffs, even if it is opportunistic plays.

[bayone]

Columbus dispatch 

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24032324/headline-fail-columbus-dispatch-says-elway-mdash-not

[bayone]

As Expected Eric Decker (-5.5) received the absolute worst grade on the entire team. Too many drops. Speaking of Drops and Targets, here's how each receiver fared:

 

SEE article for chart form

 

Receiver  Targets Rec. Drops  Drop Rate

 

D. Thomas

10

5

0

0%

Decker       7           2               3           60.0%

 

Welker

11

9

0

0%

J. Thomas

7

5

0

0%

 

 

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/9/6/4701684/denver-broncos-vs-baltimore-ravens-snap-counts

 

He did miss several throws and 3rd down conversions that he could have made when he's in mid-season form. D Thomas only figured it out in the 2nd half and Decker was dreaming all night. Still this team was too talented to lose.

[bluebambi]

It has to be hard as Indy fans to watch Manning put up a performance like last night. His arm looks back to normal to boot. I do think Irsay made the right long term decision but if Manning does get another ring, I would think all of Indy would be wondering, "What if?" Natural human instinct I think.

will you quit trolling this board ? I think if manning gets another ring cots fan should be happy for him . For your information it wasn't "hard" watching the game it was down right awesome seeing manning beat down the rat birds like that . It reminded me of the comeback against the patriots in the afc champ game ( in terms of how well manning played ) .

[bayone]

will you quit trolling this board ? I think if manning gets another ring cots fan should be happy for him . For your information it wasn't "hard" watching the game it was down right awesome seeing manning beat down the rat birds like that . It reminded me of the comeback against the patriots in the afc champ game ( in terms of how well manning played ) .

 

 

ran out of likes, of course most here will be happy for PM if he gets a ring if Colts dont win it, doesnt mean u arent a colt fan first

 

Was great to watch

[Moose Of Woe]

will you quit trolling this board ? I think if manning gets another ring cots fan should be happy for him . For your information it wasn't "hard" watching the game it was down right awesome seeing manning beat down the rat birds like that . It reminded me of the comeback against the patriots in the afc champ game ( in terms of how well manning played ) .

 

Personally, I think he's one of the better posters on here and almost always brings up valid points.

 

Of course some Indy fans wish we still had a QB of that caliber. For those fans, self included, it stings that he's gone.  However, I take solace in the fact we might very well be set at the QB position for over a decade. Not only that, we might have the best QB of the next generation.

 

I also am happy that Peyton is doing very well with another team, and has a good chance to end his career on a high note. Not only that, it's fun watching a guy who everyone said was a noodle arm washed up has been winning the  #1 seed his first year back with an entirely different team. If he wins a title or two with the Broncos (not at our expense) even better.

[DILLIGAFER]

Personally, I think he's one of the better posters on here and almost always brings up valid points.

Of course some Indy fans wish we still had a QB of that caliber. For those fans, self included, it stings that he's gone. However, I take solace in the fact we might very well be set at the QB position for over a decade. Not only that, we might have the best QB of the next generation.

I also am happy that Peyton is doing very well with another team, and has a good chance to end his career on a high note. Not only that, it's fun watching a guy who everyone said was a noodle arm washed up has been winning the #1 seed his first year back with an entirely different team. If he wins a title or two with the Broncos (not at our expense) even better.

ahem, 'he' is a 'she' and I cannot agree with your assessment.

[braveheartcolt]

To win the season-TD record, Peyton needs 51 TD's to beat out Brady's 50. With 7 TD's in this game alone, he is already 13.7% of the way to reaching that goal, and he has only played ONE game!

 

Insane.

That will be nullified when he is shut out in Indy, with our reborn D.

Why is everyone laughing?

[Andy]

Not bad...

[Fx Stryker]

As Barry pointed out I was referring to ESPN's QBR, but as much as people like to hate on passer rating it's much better that QBR. To score 141.1 out of 158.3 is far more accurate than 83.61 out of 100.

 

He has a monster game but not perfect. And 141.1 is just a better representation of that.

[amfootball]

Just when I think you couldnt possibly state anything more False.. you prove me wrong.

Just when I know you won't have a post worth reading, I click anyways because I guess I like the punishment, and you prove me right.

[amfootball]

will you quit trolling this board ? I think if manning gets another ring cots fan should be happy for him . For your information it wasn't "hard" watching the game it was down right awesome seeing manning beat down the rat birds like that . It reminded me of the comeback against the patriots in the afc champ game ( in terms of how well manning played ) .

I didn't say Colts fans would not he happy for him but that does not change the "what if" scenario. To deny that fans would not wonder what might have been is naive, especially since Manning looks like his old self physically. Catch 22 I suppose but onwards and upwards with Luck.

 

I also enjoyed watching him carve up the Ravens and silencing Suggs which is not easy to do.

[chad72]

compared with Colts era Denver surrounds Manning with more talents on offense. Players like Clark and Stokley are made into stars by Manning while D Thomas and Decker were already playmakers even when Tebow was the QB. Not to mention the Colts OL after 07 declined into mediocre.

 

 

I have to go with the Colts' 2003-2005 offensive talent with Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark together along with Edgerrin James hands down as a total package over what the Broncos have. Harrison vs future potential of DT is a push but Decker cannot sniff Wayne's jock strap, IMO, no way. Stokely in his prime was as good as Welker in his separation and route running.

 

Clark definitely benefited the most from playing with Peyton, much like Deion Branch did with Brady, IMO (though different positions). None of the Broncos' RBs are in the same league as Edgerrin James, IMO for being a complete back.

 

Defensive talent, the Broncos' LBs have way more talent than I have ever seen with the Colts under Dungy and Caldwell, hands down. Pass rush, Von Miller and Freeney may be a push but interior of DL of Broncos is better. Secondary, miles better with the Broncos.

 

If there is a remarkable difference in talent between the best Peyton era Colts and the Peyton led Broncos now, it is the talent on defense that is better on the Broncos side right now that is still hitting its stride, IMO.

[Moose Of Woe]

ahem, 'he' is a 'she' and I cannot agree with your assessment.

 

He, she, hermaphrodite I don't care lol........ but that's fine, to each one's own.

[bayone]

As Barry pointed out I was referring to ESPN's QBR, but as much as people like to hate on passer rating it's much better that QBR. To score 141.1 out of 158.3 is far more accurate than 83.61 out of 100.

 

He has a monster game but not perfect. And 141.1 is just a better representation of that.

 

 

Ran out of likes this AM , I was tripy staying up late as was with mom for religious day and watched part of game there with her, then came home & put on DVR, so between game delay and me first getting home I added another 1/2 hr to game , then i had also had taped some post game stuff in advance from other channels so really hardly any sleep

 

I think i just liked so much was in such a good mood seeing an historic game, 7 TD's no IT's only YA title did same and we going years back in time  for that , how can one not be amazed no matter who did it let alone peyton so many a comment deserved a like

 

after I wrote this I tried and it allowed me to like again , guess got some back

[DILLIGAFER]

Just when I know you won't have a post worth reading, I click anyways because I guess I like the punishment, and you prove me right.

like they say, takes one to know one huh.. anymore brain busters AM?

[bayone]

I have to go with the Colts' 2003-2005 offensive talent with Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark together along with Edgerrin James hands down as a total package over what the Broncos have. Harrison vs future potential of DT is a push but Decker cannot sniff Wayne's jock strap, IMO, no way. Stokely in his prime was as good as Welker in his separation and route running.

 

Clark definitely benefited the most from playing with Peyton, much like Deion Branch did with Brady, IMO (though different positions). None of the Broncos' RBs are in the same league as Edgerrin James, IMO for being a complete back.

 

Defensive talent, the Broncos' LBs have way more talent than I have ever seen with the Colts under Dungy and Caldwell, hands down. Pass rush, Von Miller and Freeney may be a push but interior of DL of Broncos is better. Secondary, miles better with the Broncos.

 

If there is a remarkable difference in talent between the best Peyton era Colts and the Peyton led Broncos now, it is the talent on defense that is better on the Broncos side right now that is still hitting its stride, IMO.

 

ran out of likes again , it let me slip one more  in 

 

that was a great group

[amfootball]

like they say, takes one to know one huh.. anymore brain busters AM?

[Moose Of Woe]

I have to go with the Colts' 2003-2005 offensive talent with Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark together along with Edgerrin James hands down as a total package over what the Broncos have. Harrison vs future potential of DT is a push but Decker cannot sniff Wayne's jock strap, IMO, no way. Stokely in his prime was as good as Welker in his separation and route running.

 

Clark definitely benefited the most from playing with Peyton, much like Deion Branch did with Brady, IMO (though different positions). None of the Broncos' RBs are in the same league as Edgerrin James, IMO for being a complete back.

 

Defensive talent, the Broncos' LBs have way more talent than I have ever seen with the Colts under Dungy and Caldwell, hands down. Pass rush, Von Miller and Freeney may be a push but interior of DL of Broncos is better. Secondary, miles better with the Broncos.

 

If there is a remarkable difference in talent between the best Peyton era Colts and the Peyton led Broncos now, it is the talent on defense that is better on the Broncos side right now that is still hitting its stride, IMO.

 

Stokely was very good when he was in his prime, but I don't think I can name one slot receiver who has looked as impressive as Welker in recent memory. Not only that, Stokely was almost always injured. It happened again with Collie.

 

Marvin and Reggie were self-made great players. Dallas Clark? Like you I think he was more of a byproduct of Peyton on account he fell off the map once Peyton was no longer throwing to him. Not to mention that Dallas has a habit of getting the dropsies, which reared its ugly head last night.

 

I 100% agree with the rest of your player comparisons.

 

I agree the 2003-2005 Colts had a better offense than Denver. Significantly so last season, but now just barely. I think they were slightly better by virtue of better pass blocking and a solid running attack.  The Denver D  is miles ahead of what Indy fielded outside the 2006 playoffs. I'll also add in that, while not amazing, the special teams unlike the Colts don't flat out annually suck in Denver. Field position and free return TD for/against you are of greatly understated importance. Remember those Charger playoff games? I'd rather not.

 

For teams overall,  this and last season are the best teams Manning has played on - particularly this season. Forget everything else, the addition of Welker alone is monumental for the offense. He was severely under appreciated in NE, and opened up a world of options for that offense. People looked at me funny when I said he was the MVP of NE's offense. (Not that Brady is a slouch.) I guess we'll find out.  I don't think Welker and Thomas bring the offense up to 2003-2005 Indy's offense, but it's pretty close. If the running game comes around it will be scary.

[amfootball]

Stokely was very good when he was in his prime, but I don't think I can name one slot receiver who has looked as impressive as Welker in recent memory. Not only that, Stokely was almost always injured. It happened again with Collie.

 

Marvin and Reggie were self-made great players. Dallas Clark? Like you I think he was more of a byproduct of Peyton on account he fell off the map once Peyton was no longer throwing to him. Not to mention that Dallas has a habit of getting the dropsies, which reared its ugly head last night.

 

I 100% agree with the rest of your player comparisons.

 

I agree the 2003-2005 Colts had a better offense than Denver. Significantly so last season, but now just barely. I think they were slightly better by virtue of better pass blocking and a solid running attack.  The Denver D  is miles ahead of what Indy fielded outside the 2006 playoffs. I'll also add in that, while not amazing, the special teams unlike the Colts don't flat out annually suck in Denver. Field position and free return TD for/against you are of greatly understated importance. Remember those Charger playoff games? I'd rather not.

 

For teams overall,  this and last season are the best teams Manning has played on - particularly this season. Forget everything else, the addition of Welker alone is monumental for the offense. He was severely under appreciated in NE, and opened up a world of options for that offense. People looked at me funny when I said he was the MVP of NE's offense. (Not that Brady is a slouch.) I guess we'll find out.  I don't think Welker and Thomas bring the offense up to 2003-2005 Indy's offense, but it's pretty close. If the running game comes around it will be scary.

Welker was never underappreciated in NE. In the past three seasons he was offered two contracts which he turned down. And he was franchised last season. Can't think of another slot guy to ever be franchised in recent memory. In the end, he wanted to leave NE. He obviously went to the right place. He will have his numbers this year and his drops as we saw last night.

 

He was not the MVP in NE. He had tremendous production and kept the chains moving but Brady mades the Pats O go. Wait to see what he does with Amendola and then we can pick this back up.

 

I still say the Indy teams were better than these Denver teams. I will give the nod to defense but offensively the Colts were better in the prime years and had better coaching and a better GM. Also, those Indy teams never had these type of off-field issues with execs getting drunk and defensive stars getting suspended six games ...

[Moose Of Woe]

Welker was never underappreciated in NE. In the past three seasons he was offered two contracts which he turned down. And he was franchised last season. Can't think of another slot guy to ever be franchised in recent memory. In the end, he wanted to leave NE. He obviously went to the right place. He will have his numbers this year and his drops as we saw last night.

 

He was not the MVP in NE. He had tremendous production and kept the chains moving but Brady mades the Pats O go. Wait to see what he does with Amendola and then we can pick this back up.

 

I still say the Indy teams were better than these Denver teams. I will give the nod to defense but offensively the Colts were better in the prime years and had better coaching and a better GM. Also, those Indy teams never had these type of off-field issues with execs getting drunk and defensive stars getting suspended six games ...

 

Like I said with the Welker/Brady thing that will sort itself fairly soon. If Amendola comes in and they don't skip a beat I'll gladly acknowledge it was mostly Brady all along. Also when I say Welker is the MVP I don't say that as an insult to Brady, more of a compliment to how good I think Welker is.

 

As for Indy/Denver, offensively Indy was a tad better 2003-2005 than Denver is now imo. By virtue of the run game mostly. However the defense and special teams are leagues better in Denver.

 

Indy 2003-2005:

-Great offense.

-Terrible defense.

-Terrible special teams. Sans our kicker, who always sucked when we needed him most.

-Mediocre coaching. Too conservative for my tastes.

 

Indy 2006-2010

-Good offense in 2006, then became annually worse as the O-line continued to degrade.

-Terrible defense outside the 2006 playoffs, no change there.

-Terrible special teams, no change there. We got Vinny who IS usually reliable when we need him with rare exception. Tne Charger game where he shanked an easy one springs to mind as one example. Also, he's unreliable when you DON'T really need him. It's weird.

-Mediocre coaching under Dungy, and terrible "coaching" under Caldwell.

 

Denver 2012:

-Good offense.

-Decent to good defense.

-Decent to good special teams

-Mediocre coaching. Again, too conservative for my tastes and it cost them dearly.

 

Denver 2013:

-Very good offense.

-Decent to good defense.

-Decent to good special teams.

-Not sure on coaching. I'm glad after the 3 runs and out that the Broncos threw for a first down to end the game. It showed a little aggression/desire to FINISH THE OPPONENT by stepping on their throats. This is something we don't often see from a Manning coaching staff.

 

Overall, I don't see how having a slightly better offense makes those 2003-2005 Indy teams better than what Denver is fielding. The defense and special teams  more than make up for an inferior running attack and slightly worse (but passable) pass protection. The receiver sets are pretty close. No individual Bronco is better than Marvin or Reggie, but the combined talent of Thomas and Thomas, Welker and sometimes Decker is a pretty impressive set.

 

I'll take 3/3 of a team doing it's job fairly reliably as opposed to the offense lugging around dead weight D and ST.

[JerodMayo51]

The odd part about throwing 7 TDs is that the game has to remain reasonably close..

 

..you also have to have a suspect defense

 

 

You also have to have your defense create multiple turnovers inside the opponents own red zone.  Two of those touchdowns were basically borderline shuffle passes to the RB, but he still lit them up.  

 

I called it months ago when they got Welker, it was obvious the Broncos were going All In for a Super Bowl and an aerial attack similar to Brady in 07 and Manning in 04.  With that kind of talent, if you arent throwing up 300+ yards and 3-4 TDs a game, something is seriously wrong.

 

Broncos fans im sure are going to have a fun time watching their team this year, and Manning has an insanely talented team around him that could definitely earn him another ring (or two).  Thats why football is a team sport, its not all about Manning scoring those 7 touchdowns, its the insane levels of talent around him that make an elite quarterback go into beast mode.  They don't do it all by themselves, you need talent around you.

[JerodMayo51]

Off course I'm a bit sad that he walked away but to be honest he's got a lot of talent around him at Denver I doubt he would put up numbers like this with our Offensive Line around him. 

 

He absolutely could not put those kinds of numbers up without the talent around him.  The Broncos team is STACKED, that is why Manning chose to go there and they are setting him up to go off into the sunset with another ring or two.  They don't care about the future, they are going all in right now and im sure their fans are going to love the ride.

 

I still think it was a good idea for the Colts to tank that season and get Luck though.  Manning will be tearing the league up for another 2-4 years tops, Luck will be tearing the league up for the next 15+ years.  It was a wise business move, albeit very hard to stomach as a fan at the time im sure.

 

Im still dreading the day that Brady hangs them up... don't even want to think about it.. especially since I know the Pats will never be drafting with the #1 pick, so its not going to be a sure bet to replace him either.

[Dustin]

You also have to have your defense create multiple turnovers inside the opponents own red zone.  Two of those touchdowns were basically borderline shuffle passes to the RB, but he still lit them up.  

 

He didn't throw a TD to any RBs.

[amfootball]

Like I said with the Welker/Brady thing that will sort itself fairly soon. If Amendola comes in and they don't skip a beat I'll gladly acknowledge it was mostly Brady all along. Also when I say Welker is the MVP I don't say that as an insult to Brady, more of a compliment to how good I think Welker is.

 

As for Indy/Denver, offensively Indy was a tad better 2003-2005 than Denver is now imo. By virtue of the run game mostly. However the defense and special teams are leagues better in Denver.

 

Indy 2003-2005:

-Great offense.

-Terrible defense.

-Terrible special teams. Sans our kicker, who always sucked when we needed him most.

-Mediocre coaching. Too conservative for my tastes.

 

Indy 2006-2010

-Good offense in 2006, then became annually worse as the O-line continued to degrade.

-Terrible defense outside the 2006 playoffs, no change there.

-Terrible special teams, no change there. We got Vinny his IS usually reliable when we need him with rare exception. Tne Charger game where he shanked an easy one springs to mind as one example. Also, he's unreliable when you DON'T really need him. It's weird.

-Mediocre coaching under Dungy terrible "coaching" under Caldwell.

 

Denver 2012:

-Good offense.

-Decent to good defense.

-Decent to good special teams

-Mediocre coaching. Again, too conservative for my tastes and it cost them dearly.

 

Denver 2013:

-Very good offense.

-Decent to good defense.

-Decent to good special teams.

-Not sure on coaching. I'm glad after the 3 runs and out that the Broncos threw for a first down to end the game. It showed a little aggression/desire to FINISH THE OPPONENT by stepping on their throats. This is omething we don't often see from a Manning coaching staff.

 

Overall, I don't see how having a slightly better offense makes those 2003-2005 Indy teams better than what Denver is fielding. The defense and special teams  more than make up for an inferior running attack and slightly worse (but passable) pass protection. The receiver sets are pretty close. No individual Bronco is better than Marvin or Reggie, but the combined talent of Thomas and Thomas, Welker and sometimes Decker is a pretty impressive set.

 

I'll take 3/3 of a team doing it's job fairly reliably as opposed to the offense lugging around dead weight D and ST.

Perhaps you forget what Brady did with Troy Brown in the slot who was cut twice before Brady became the starter. Not to mention Branch, Givens, Fauria, etc. Welker for sure has his skills but they were magnified by Brady and the O. And of course now he is with Manning who will get him his touches.

 

I think maybe where we diverge in the comparison is I don't think Denver's D is that much better. They were ranked high last year mostly because of the cup cake schedule in which Manning got the lead early. You saw more of who they were in the playoff game vs the Ravens. I don't think they looked that great last night against a depleted Ravens O.

 

I don't see where special teams is that far off. I don't recall Indy's being that bad but you would probably know better. Vanderjagt at one point had the best FG in the league even if he missed the big kicks from time to time. Then you got Vinateri in 2006.

 

I don't think the Indy O was a little better. I think they were a lot better. Harrison and Wayne and James are above Denver even with Welker. That is two HoFers and Wayne may make the hall too not too mention Saturday and the rest of the Oline.

[JerodMayo51]

The fans I know and come into contact with on a regular basis are very annoying, I've had to listen to 19-0 talks since training camp. 

 

 

19-0 is a very realistic possibility for that team.  The Broncos are the most stacked team in the league talent wise and they're in the weakest division in the NFL.  Their schedule this year is a joke, and their offense can easily put up 30+ a game.  

[amfootball]

19-0 is a very realistic possibility for that team.  The Broncos are the most stacked team in the league talent wise and they're in the weakest division in the NFL.  Their schedule this year is a joke, and their offense can easily put up 30+ a game.  

Calm down man. The Broncos are not going 19-0. The Ravens D was a shadow of itself from last year.