Coyer Defense?????

[Colts32]

Its not enough that Manning is out but how frustrating is the soft defense we play. Linebackers playing 15-17 yards off. If thats the kind of safe zone we have to play then it doesnt say much at all about our secondary. I personally would rather see our secondary earn thier stripes than linebackers playing so safe. Those short dump passes that the bucks are completing are killing me.

[GoColts8818]

Its not enough that Manning is out but how frustrating is the soft defense we play. Linebackers playing 15-17 yards off. If thats the kind of safe zone we have to play then it doesnt say much at all about our secondary. I personally would rather see our secondary earn thier stripes than linebackers playing so safe. Those short dump passes that the bucks are completing are killing me.

This is what you do when everyone but two guys in the secondary is a rookie. It's very frustrating I know I don't like it. Also way to go Hughes you finally made a play now shut up and go play football so your great play doesn't get whipped out never mind Anderson took care of it for you.

[GoColts8818]

Also you are seeing the Bucs attacking Angerer's pass defense. This is where we miss Brackett.

[Rich Cannon]

This is what you do when everyone but two guys in the secondary is a rookie. It's very frustrating I know I don't like it. Also way to go Hughes you finally made a play now shut up and go play football so your great play doesn't get whipped out never mind Anderson took care of it for you.

Agreed

[Andy]

In Leyman's terms, Coyer Sucks

[Happy2BeHere]

Well I was glad that Gruden said during the game..."The colts need another scheme instead of Tampa 2". It was a valiant effort by Painter but I just didn't think we could get this game done because our defense can't stay off the field. Look at the time of possession it was absolutely ridiculous.

I sure hope we make some drastic changes but with drastic changes comes a rebuff period...prepare to see it in the next few years I'd say. UGH! Well Painter was fun to watch anyway...just wish he hadn't fumbled that frickin ball again.

[Mcafee420]

Hughes made i think one or two plays and ran his mouth. WTH we didnt draft him to talk, we drafted him to sack the QB. Coyer needs to be more aggressive but I understand we are playing with alot of rookies, and is Tommy Harris still on out there????

[Feardaneard]

Worst defense but seriously guys this game was the colts of "old"

[GoColts8818]

In Leyman's terms, Coyer Sucks

In Leyman's terms Coyer is handcuffed because he's playing with one DT and an almost all rookie secondary. No DC is going to be able to draw up a good defense with that. I know no one likes that answer because there is nothing you can do about it but it's what's going on.

We are down to Bethea, Powers, Conner, Johnson, Freeney and Mathis as our only opening day starters left playing on the D in their orginal poistions. Oh and Bethea and Freeney are playing hurt.

[GoGoColts]

Coyer needs to be better at making adjustments and Coyer NEEDs to adjust. I was worried that the Bucs would keep direct snapping to the running back. We would have been blown out with the way that Coyer adjusts.

[Smitto]

Also you are seeing the Bucs attacking Angerer's pass defense. This is where we miss Brackett.

Brackett couldnt have done much there, those passes were infront of Pat not behind him so this is all on the coaches... i use to think this was a personnel problem but its the scheme big time.

[mystrymaster]

Also you are seeing the Bucs attacking Angerer's pass defense. This is where we miss Brackett.

What?? He was starting 15 yards downfield, not because he wanted to, because he was told to.

[mystrymaster]

What happened to all the Blitzing Coyer was supposed to do?

I almost missed meeks tonight.

[GoColts8818]

Brackett couldnt have done much there, those passes were infront of Pat not behind him so this is all on the coaches... i use to think this was a personnel problem but its the scheme big time.

because the coaches pulled Pat back because he got burned last week from being up. Brackett would have in all likely hood been closer to the line.

[Jackie Daytona]

Layman's terms....... we need more young talent and better coaching, with 18 back....voila!

[mystrymaster]

because the coaches pulled Pat back because he got burned last week from being up. Brackett would have in all likely hood been closer to the line.

No way, much easier to run forward than to run back.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Its not enough that Manning is out but how frustrating is the soft defense we play. Linebackers playing 15-17 yards off. If thats the kind of safe zone we have to play then it doesnt say much at all about our secondary. I personally would rather see our secondary earn thier stripes than linebackers playing so safe. Those short dump passes that the bucks are completing are killing me.

caldwell and coyer saw that tampa was passing to the spot angerer was before they told him to drop back and the next game they are going to make some adjustments

[GoColts8818]

What happened to all the Blitzing Coyer was supposed to do?

I almost missed meeks tonight.

He's out of players. We were playing with a bunch of rookies and undrafted free agents. They are doing well to play the base defense let alone do the advanced stuff like blitzs. Again I know no one likes that answer but it's what is going on.

[Jason_]

This is what you do when everyone but two guys in the secondary is a rookie. It's very frustrating I know I don't like it. Also way to go Hughes you finally made a play now shut up and go play football so your great play doesn't get whipped out never mind Anderson took care of it for you.

Sorry man but that's a cop out and I completely disagree. They've been playing tampa 2 and soft zone long before these current rookies came along. I can't find any justifiable reason to drop the MIKE 20 yards deep, especially when the other team only needs 10 yards for a first down. The 3rd and 29 was a good time to call the tampa 2...but on 2nd and like 10 from the 12 yard line where angry pat was in the end zone? Tampa 2 needs to be put on the shelved for good.

[GoColts8818]

No way, much easier to run forward than to run back.

go back and watch some games. Have you ever seen Brackett play that far off? Unless it's prevent defense no you haven't. That's what I based it off of. I know it's out of tune right now to point out that Angerer isn't perfect and that there might have been a reason that Brackett was starting at MLB over him but his pass defense is why and tonight you saw Angerer exposed on it. It doesn't mean Angerer isn't a good a player it's just an area he needs to work on.

[Mcafee420]

I almost missed meeks tonight.

I havent hit that mark yet. I actually hope I never almost miss Meek's Defense

[GoColts8818]

Sorry man but that's a cop out and I completely disagree. They've been playing tampa 2 and soft zone long before these current rookies came along. I can't find any justifiable reason to drop the MIKE 20 yards deep, especially when the other team only needs 10 yards for a first down. The 3rd and 29 was a good time to call the tampa 2...but on 2nd and like 10 from the 12 yard line where angry pat was in the end zone? Tampa 2 needs to be put on the shelved for good.

It's not a cop out, you can't call advanced stuff with players who don't know the full system yet. Why do you think the offense was so trimed down with Collins? Because he didn't know the advanced stuff. We put Painter in there tonight and the offense looks like the old Peyton Manning run offense in terms of play calls because he knows it. It's the samething on defense. Again I know fans don't like it but it's what is going on.

[Jason_]

go back and watch some games. Have you ever seen Brackett play that far off? Unless it's prevent defense no you haven't. That's what I based it off of. I know it's out of tune right now to point out that Angerer isn't perfect and that there might have been a reason that Brackett was starting at MLB over him but his pass defense is why and tonight you saw Angerer exposed on it. It doesn't mean Angerer isn't a good a player it's just an area he needs to work on.

the only reason brackett was better is because he was/is an oversized safety. Yes he's better in coverage but the type of coverage the Colts put the MIKE in isn't the type of coverage most normal MIKEs are going to be able to do well.

[Jason_]

It's not a cop out, you can't call advanced stuff with players who don't know the full system yet. Why do you think the offense was so trimed down with Collins? Because he didn't know the advanced stuff. We put Painter in there tonight and the offense looks like the old Peyton Manning run offense in terms of play calls because he knows it. It's the samething on defense. Again I know fans don't like it but it's what is going on.

It is a cop out....I agree that they can't get too advanced with the defensive play calling but they were running tampa 2 and getting burned by it long before we were down to rookies and no DT's.

[Smitto]

because the coaches pulled Pat back because he got burned last week from being up. Brackett would have in all likely hood been closer to the line.

Well we will never know, right now i blame the coaches, its not gonna change i know that because the tampa 2 has been there since Dungy and the only way it changes is if Bill is gone or a new HC comes in so nothing is gonna change.

[mystrymaster]

go back and watch some games. Have you ever seen Brackett play that far off? Unless it's prevent defense no you haven't. That's what I based it off of. I know it's out of tune right now to point out that Angerer isn't perfect and that there might have been a reason that Brackett was starting at MLB over him but his pass defense is why and tonight you saw Angerer exposed on it. It doesn't mean Angerer isn't a good a player it's just an area he needs to work on.

I agree that he needs to work on it but the thing that Gary did better than anyone was the pre snap run back. 1 second before the snap Gary would go from 7 yards back to 11-12 yards back real fast.

Angerer was not perfect but the fact of the matter is, Coyer needs to adjust his defense to the personnel we have and we do not have the personnel to play the Tampa 2. heck, I am not really sure if anyone wants to play the Tampa 2 anymore. It is old and the wholes have been found, unless it is played perfect it will be exploited.

[Jason_]

Well we will never know, right now i blame the coaches, its not gonna change i know that because the tampa 2 has been there since Dungy and the only way it changes is if Bill is gone or a new HC comes in so nothing is gonna change.

Honestly I don't think Bill has anything to do with it. Neither Buffalo nor Carolina ran the tampa 2. I put this all on Coyer and Caldwell for not stepping in and doing something about it. As long as Coyer is here, you're right chances are nothing gets changed. I'd like to see a change but if he's not willing to do it then I hope he's gone before the bye week.

[Jason_]

I agree that he needs to work on it but the thing that Gary did better than anyone was the pre snap run back. 1 second before the snap Gary would go from 7 yards back to 11-12 yards back real fast.

Angerer was not perfect but the fact of the matter is, Coyer needs to adjust his defense to the personnel we have and we do not have the personnel to play the Tampa 2. heck, I am not really sure if anyone wants to play the Tampa 2 anymore. It is old and the wholes have been found, unless it is played perfect it will be exploited.

agreed...it was a novel idea and worked for a while but it's been figured out and it's time to move on.

[hawkeyes]

I havent hit that mark yet. I actually hope I never almost miss Meek's Defense

I cant imagine getting that low ... coaching was bad with no adjustments etc, but at the same time I do understand they had very little to work with. When they are depending on #23 Johnson to go out there and make plays - they are already way behind before the snap!

[GoColts8818]

It is a cop out....I agree that they can't get too advanced with the defensive play calling but they were running tampa 2 and getting burned by it long before we were down to rookies and no DT's.

No it's not when guys don't know the play they can't run them. It's the simple. This is exactly why people talk about injuries taking it's toll. When you down to three players in your back seven that were starters in their poistion on opening day it's going to effect the way the defense is called and you saw just that tonight.

[Andy]

In Leyman's terms Coyer is handcuffed because he's playing with one DT and an almost all rookie secondary. No DC is going to be able to draw up a good defense with that. I know no one likes that answer because there is nothing you can do about it but it's what's going on.

We are down to Bethea, Powers, Conner, Johnson, Freeney and Mathis as our only opening day starters left playing on the D in their orginal poistions. Oh and Bethea and Freeney are playing hurt.

That's not Leyman's terms...

[GoColts8818]

I agree that he needs to work on it but the thing that Gary did better than anyone was the pre snap run back. 1 second before the snap Gary would go from 7 yards back to 11-12 yards back real fast.

Angerer was not perfect but the fact of the matter is, Coyer needs to adjust his defense to the personnel we have and we do not have the personnel to play the Tampa 2. heck, I am not really sure if anyone wants to play the Tampa 2 anymore. It is old and the wholes have been found, unless it is played perfect it will be exploited.

he did, it just so happened we are playing a bunch of guys who are trying to figure out what is going on out there. You run the base defense when in that spot which they did which is the Tampa 2. The Bucs did the smart thing and attacked the holes in it knowing we couldn't do much to adjust because of the injureis. Again the other team gets paid too. Sometimes it isn't what the Colts did wrong sometimes it's what the other team did right.

[GoColts8818]

That's not Leyman's terms...

yah but I have a feeling if I just said the Colts were hurt with nothing to back it up I would get ripped for it.

[OLD FAN MAN]

He's out of players. We were playing with a bunch of rookies and undrafted free agents. They are doing well to play the base defense let alone do the advanced stuff like blitzs. Again I know no one likes that answer but it's what is going on.

that is the kind of players we get because we dont manage our cap well money forces us to get udfas who work cheap

[Jason_]

No it's not when guys don't know the play they can't run them. It's the simple. This is exactly why people talk about injuries taking it's toll. When you down to three players in your back seven that were starters in their poistion on opening day it's going to effect the way the defense is called and you saw just that tonight.

I'm referring to the continued use of the tampa 2 being blamed on injuries and rookies. The colts have used the tampa 2 long before this season and they were getting burned by it long before this season. Like I said, of course you can't get too creative with play calling but when you have a MIKE that can't play deep zone then stop playing him in deep zone. Regardless of how many rookies there are the tampa 2 needs to go.

[GoColts8818]

that is the kind of players we get because we dont manage our cap well money forces us to get udfas who work cheap

So what star player on offense do you want to give up so we can have more players on defense?

[chad72]

Also you are seeing the Bucs attacking Angerer's pass defense. This is where we miss Brackett.

No, we don't. You talk like Brackett is a world beater on pass defense. His drops were not as deep as they used to be on pass D recently, his instincts may have helped a tad but then Brackett would have gotten rolled over even more by Blount in run D, IMO. Can't have everything, that is just how it is. I still prefer Angerer. I could have used a few run blitzes and pass blitzes from the middle, IMO. Angerer could have been used on those more with rotation to the empty spot of the blitzer. Coyer did not call a good game, IMO. The previous game, the O-line of the Steelers plus playing at home helped our D definitely. We still had issues with 3rd down D last game and we started off well this game but losing Nevis definitely hurt in the middle and we could have made it up with some more blitzing, Freeman was not that great from the pocket and it would have helped.

[mystrymaster]

So what star player on offense do you want to give up so we can have more players on defense?

Anthony Gonzales

But really if either Hughes or Pitcock turns into the player we hoped we were getting this defense is much better. specifically Pitcock.

[Jason_]

Even in game 1 versus the texans when we had a healthy Brackett and Bullitt with Lacey and Powers starting, the tampa 2 still got burned on early downs for 4/5 for 55 yards They couldn't run tampa 2 coverage any more than that due to all of the rollouts by Schaub. Teams have burned the tampa 2 in 4 games straight so far.

[GoColts8818]

I'm referring to the continued use of the tampa 2 being blamed on injuries and rookies. The colts have used the tampa 2 long before this season and they were getting burned by it long before this season. Like I said, of course you can't get too creative with play calling but when you have a MIKE that can't play deep zone then stop playing him in deep zone. Regardless of how many rookies there are the tampa 2 needs to go.

That's because that's the base defense which is what you do when you get hurt and forced into playing so many young guys. You go back to your base defense. The Bucs did the smart thing and attacked the holes in it knowhing our hands were tied we couldn't really sub and we couldn't adjust.

You might think the Tampa 2 needs to go and you might be right I am not sure I would disagree with that but that's another issue than what happened tonight. The Colts were forced into the base defense because of injuries and the Bucs attacked it.