Reed Looks To Be Great Sign By Houston

[amfootball]

The Pats had a really good run game two out of those three years they won the Super Bowl. When their run game fell off, they missed the playoffs. Brady's role grew over time, faster than Flacco's did, because he was better than Flacco. But the role was similar. 

 

I also disagree that Flacco had better skill talent. Ray Rice was better than Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk (for the most part), but early on Rice wasn't the primary back. It was McGahee and McClain, and that's kind of a wash (I might actually give that to the Pats backs, particularly the Pats in 2001 vs. the Ravens in 2008). Rice became a dual-threat in 2009, but still wasn't the lead back until 2010. And I think I'd take Corey Dillon and Kevin Faulk in 2004 over any combination of backs that Flacco has had. 

 

At receiver, Brady never had much, but Deion Branch came on in 2004, especially in the playoffs. And before that, Troy Brown did as much as Derrick Mason did for the Flacco's Ravens. The Ravens haven't had any surplus of receiving options themselves, that's why it was such a big deal that Anquan Boldin and Torrey Smith played so well in the playoffs. Other than that, it's really been just Ray Rice. You're painting a picture of Flacco having a great complement of skill guys, and that hasn't been the case.

The Pats did not have a really good run game in ’01 or ’03. Smith ran for just over 1,000 yards in 2001 which is about 75 yards a game. Faulk run for 169. The offense was predicated on Brady and the short to mid-range passing game to Brown, Patten and Fred Coleman who was the second wideout (yes, Fred Coleman) and Jermaine Wiggins (who?) as his TE. In 2008, Flacco had McCain, McGahee and Rice who altogether ran for 2,000 yards. He had Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton and Todd Heap as his WRs and TEs - a superior group to Brady.

 

In 2003 the wheels came off of Smith as he ran for just over 600 yards as did Faulk. Again, the offense was predicated on Brady and the short to mid-range game with him having Branch and Givens who pretty much proved after they left NE that they were average receivers and Dan Graham as his TE who was more of a blocker than a pass catcher. In Flacco’s third year he still had his trio of RBs which gave him more than 1,600 yards and had Boldin in addition to Mason and Heap as his WRs and TE.

 

So in Brady’s first three years, he had two rings and zero playoff losses with an offense largely predicated on his passing game to skill players that were average at best with the exception of Troy Brown. In Flacco’s first three years, his offense was predicated on the run with his long balls as a supplement. He won a playoff game each year but not only no rings, no SB appearances either.

 

So, as I have said, there really are no similarities. If you want to talk yardage and TDs, ok but I could a cite bunch of QBs that had similar stats to Brady their first few years but that is where the similarities end. In this case, stats really do only tell half the story. Like I said, the only QB that really does compare to Brady his first few season is Roethlisberger. He had a good defense and was clutch like Brady and won like Brady both in the regular season and post-season. Flacco really just started hitting his stride the last two season with last post-season being an exception to his normal play.

[amfootball]

One thing is sure, Baltimore football teams can at least beat the Giants. The Colts beat them in 58 and 59, and the Ravens beat them in 2000. I would hate to lose to New York like you guys have, but I digress. Flacco outplayed Brady and did his job in the 2011 AFCGC. He laid the ball right into Evan's hands and all he had to do was get one foot down and protect the ball. It wasn't even a great defensive play, but a lack of fundamentals by a receiver. Flacco put it right on the money for what should have been the winning touchdown. He carried that great performance into the 2012 playoffs beating Luck, Manning, Brady, and Kapp, all without the great Baltimore defenses of the past. 

 

I'm not saying the Patriots are through, by any means. My comment is they have a hard road ahead, but always have a * division devoid of the Steelers and Bengals. I'll take the Ravens , who have beaten the Patriots two of the last three playoff games, all on the road, and a 31-30 decision in last years regular season over the Patriots. Ray couldn't cover anybody at the end, and it was time for him, and oft-injured Ed Reed to go. Ozzie has filled almost every hole on paper, and I'll take our balanced line-up over the Patriots any day. In addition, as we all know, the Patriots have the horrible distractions with their tight end, as well as the Tebow experiment. Because they are in an easy division, they will probably make the playoffs, but I don't see them going far this year. 

Congrats on being able to beat the Giants. Too bad you cannot say the same about the Steelers in the playoffs who the Pats have owned beating them twice in AFC champ games at their house. Bet you were pretty happy last year that they were not there to end your ride.

 

Sure, Flacco outplayed Brady going against the 31^st ranked pass defense while Brady had to go against a top 5 defense. And if not Rahim Moore’s brain fart, we would not even being having this discussion but keep talking about Lee Evans and ignore the fact that the heavens opened up to give you that gift win vs. Denver.

 

I think it has been proven up here more than once that the AFC East has not been any worse or better than any other division in the AFC the last 13 years. It is pretty funny that you cite the Bengals as a tough team which they are now but were a joke for about the last two decades prior and still have not won a playoff game.

 

I agree that Ozzie has done a nice job and needed to make the moves on defense. But as you say it looks good on paper. We will see how it all plays out. In terms of the Pats, if there is one thing that we know to be true about that org is that distractions simply don’t bother them. Gronk is not distraction BTW. He is healing and is on target to perhaps start practicing before the end of camp. Hernandez is old news and the Pats did a fabulous job last week of addressing him and moving on. But in terms of the team, they too made some savvy defensive moves and on paper look the best they have in years on that side of the ball. For sure they have one of the best front sevens in football but we will have to see how the secondary holds up but it looks promising with Talib and Adrian Wilson out there along with the second and third year guys.

 

We will see how it all shakes out but as I have said before, the Pats will go as far as their secondary takes them. They can’t be 31st against the pass again. Brady and the O will be plenty good enough which is something you can’t say about Flacco and the Ravens O just yet. Teams will cover his lollipop throws this year.

[The Old Crow]

We have beaten up the Steelers for the division the last two years , but as you pointed out, they have beaten us in every playoff game. It is even worse than that, as they also beat the Colts and Orioles in the 1970's. I think Baltimore has lost every playoff game they have played against Pittsburgh teams in all sports. Very frustrating , and a fact that few people know. Counting the old Colt wins, Baltimore is 3 and 0 against the Giants in Championship games. We will never know what might have happened in 2011 , but I think the odds would have been in the Ravens favor. Historically , they have handled Eli very well . With pitta out, and the signing of Shianco , it is another question mark for the Ravens. Like you said , we'll have to see how it all turns out.

[amfootball]

We have beaten up the Steelers for the division the last two years , but as you pointed out, they have beaten us in every playoff game. It is even worse than that, as they also beat the Colts and Orioles in the 1970's. I think Baltimore has lost every playoff game they have played against Pittsburgh teams in all sports. Very frustrating , and a fact that few people know. Counting the old Colt wins, Baltimore is 3 and 0 against the Giants in Championship games. We will never know what might have happened in 2011 , but I think the odds would have been in the Ravens favor. Historically , they have handled Eli very well . With pitta out, and the signing of Shianco , it is another question mark for the Ravens. Like you said , we'll have to see how it all turns out.

I would have been rooting for the Ravens to destory the Giants if you played them. I was happy you beat the niners too. Have always hated SF.

 

The Pats had Shianco last season I think or the year before. He still has some gas in the tank. Real bummer about Pitta. TC has been awful this year with the injuries.

[amfootball]

I think the issue is that you give Brady much more credit for his team's success early in his career than most of the rest of us do. And that discussion has been had ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I have noticed this discrepancy up here. I will give you my view and you can take it for what it is worth from someone who has been following the Pats since the early 80’s. I am also a native Bostonian so you can factor that in as well for better or for worse.

 

In 2000, the year the Pats drafted Brady, the team was transitioning from the Pete Carroll years which were a mess to the Belichick era. The team also had not made the playoffs since 1997. The Pats went 5-11 that season and everyone in NE was irate that Kraft had given up a #1 pick to the Jets for Belichick. All of us remembered his less than stellar stint in Cleveland and felt his coaching style was cold and that he didn’t connect with the players.

 

In 2001, the team began 0-2 losing to the Bengals and Jets (both horrible teams that year). When Bledsoe got injured, I remember being excited to see Damon Huard play QB. The Pats had gotten him that season as back-up to Bledsoe and were paying him a million dollars. To our surprise, in comes Brady. I had no idea Brady had moved to the #2 spot to be honest as Bledsoe rarely ever got injured so his back-up was not a big story.

 

When Brady stepped on the field what was most noticeable was his pocket presence and ability to get rid of the ball quickly as compared to Bledsoe who would just stand in the pocket for what seemed like an eternity with very little lateral movement. As a result, the offense began quickly moving down the field and rarely did it seem like Brady was being pressured. That is important because one of the main reasons believed for the Pats struggles was the Oline’s inability to protect Bledsoe and in truth, the Oline was not that great that year. But my mid-season the reporters were all saying how the Oline had gelled and were playing better but we all saw that it was Brady that was making them look better because of his quick release once the ball was snapped.

 

In addition, Brady was able to read the blitz and beat the blitz. This was probably Bledsoe’s biggest weakness in his game. He was terrible under pressure. So while Brady was not throwing bombs down the field hence his stats looking very average, what he was doing was not taking any negative plays and methodically moving the offense.

 

In terms of the skill positions, Troy Brown had been cut twice by the Pats since 1996. For whatever reason, he and Bledsoe did not gel together. When Brady stepped in, he became the best receiver on the team much to everyone’s surprise. Terry Glenn who many forget was still on the Pats that year, held out when Bledsoe went down and refused to play. Brady I think played one or two games with him and that was it. So Brady did not have the Pats best receiver at his disposal that year but he made due with Brown, Patten, Coleman, and Jermaine Wiggins as his TE going 14-3 and ending the season on a 9 game winning streak which included the playoffs.

 

While the defense was good, it was not great. I believe it was ranked in the mid-teens for yardage as it tended to let up a lot of big plays. But again as the season rolled along, they too got better because Brady rarely turned over the ball, again unlike Bledsoe, and almost never took negative plays so they could play from a position of strength.

 

But I think what really cemented Brady as that guy was his leadership. I remember Lawyer Milloy saying that when Brady took over the Pats finally had a true leader in the huddle. I also remember Ty Law saying that stats are great but winning trumps all and Brady is a winner. These were defensive players saying this remember.

 

I think what we all understand in NE is that as much as those Pats champ teams were about the team, without Brady there are no rings. And that fact really can’t be argued even by the biggest haters. He is the one that brought “team” to the Pats in every sense of the word with his play and attitude. I think when all is said and done, he will be the top guy on the NE Mount Rushmore of great sports stars. He will be ahead of Bird, Williams, and Orr. Just my opinion but he came out of nowhere literally and took Bledsoe’s job, went toe-to-toe with Manning and won and is still the hardest working guy on the team.

 

So like I said, while you can nit-pick at his stats and try to use them as a reason why Brady should not be given as much credit as he is during the early years, they truly only tell half the story. The QB because of the nature of his position as team leader, unlike any other position in sports, can literally take an average team and make them champions ... that is what Brady did and everyone in NE knows it.

[The Old Crow]

I have noticed this discrepancy up here. I will give you my view and you can take it for what it is worth from someone who has been following the Pats since the early 80’s. I am also a native Bostonian so you can factor that in as well for better or for worse.

 

In 2000, the year the Pats drafted Brady, the team was transitioning from the Pete Carroll years which were a mess to the Belichick era. The team also had not made the playoffs since 1997. The Pats went 5-11 that season and everyone in NE was irate that Kraft had given up a #1 pick to the Jets for Belichick. All of us remembered his less than stellar stint in Cleveland and felt his coaching style was cold and that he didn’t connect with the players.

 

In 2001, the team began 0-2 losing to the Bengals and Jets (both horrible teams that year). When Bledsoe got injured, I remember being excited to see Damon Huard play QB. The Pats had gotten him that season as back-up to Bledsoe and were paying him a million dollars. To our surprise, in comes Brady. I had no idea Brady had moved to the #2 spot to be honest as Bledsoe rarely ever got injured so his back-up was not a big story.

 

When Brady stepped on the field what was most noticeable was his pocket presence and ability to get rid of the ball quickly as compared to Bledsoe who would just stand in the pocket for what seemed like an eternity with very little lateral movement. As a result, the offense began quickly moving down the field and rarely did it seem like Brady was being pressured. That is important because one of the main reasons believed for the Pats struggles was the Oline’s inability to protect Bledsoe and in truth, the Oline was not that great that year. But my mid-season the reporters were all saying how the Oline had gelled and were playing better but we all saw that it was Brady that was making them look better because of his quick release once the ball was snapped.

 

In addition, Brady was able to read the blitz and beat the blitz. This was probably Bledsoe’s biggest weakness in his game. He was terrible under pressure. So while Brady was not throwing bombs down the field hence his stats looking very average, what he was doing was not taking any negative plays and methodically moving the offense.

 

In terms of the skill positions, Troy Brown had been cut twice by the Pats since 1996. For whatever reason, he and Bledsoe did not gel together. When Brady stepped in, he became the best receiver on the team much to everyone’s surprise. Terry Glenn who many forget was still on the Pats that year, held out when Bledsoe went down and refused to play. Brady I think played one or two games with him and that was it. So Brady did not have the Pats best receiver at his disposal that year but he made due with Brown, Patten, Coleman, and Jermaine Wiggins as his TE going 14-3 and ending the season on a 9 game winning streak which included the playoffs.

 

While the defense was good, it was not great. I believe it was ranked in the mid-teens for yardage as it tended to let up a lot of big plays. But again as the season rolled along, they too got better because Brady rarely turned over the ball, again unlike Bledsoe, and almost never took negative plays so they could play from a position of strength.

 

But I think what really cemented Brady as that guy was his leadership. I remember Lawyer Milloy saying that when Brady took over the Pats finally had a true leader in the huddle. I also remember Ty Law saying that stats are great but winning trumps all and Brady is a winner. These were defensive players saying this remember.

 

I think what we all understand in NE is that as much as those Pats champ teams were about the team, without Brady there are no rings. And that fact really can’t be argued even by the biggest haters. He is the one that brought “team” to the Pats in every sense of the word with his play and attitude. I think when all is said and done, he will be the top guy on the NE Mount Rushmore of great sports stars. He will be ahead of Bird, Williams, and Orr. Just my opinion but he came out of nowhere literally and took Bledsoe’s job, went toe-to-toe with Manning and won and is still the hardest working guy on the team.

 

So like I said, while you can nit-pick at his stats and try to use them as a reason why Brady should not be given as much credit as he is during the early years, they truly only tell half the story. The QB because of the nature of his position as team leader, unlike any other position in sports, can literally take an average team and make them champions ... that is what Brady did and everyone in NE knows it.

 

Obviously , Brady did well in his first five seasons. Three Super Bowls says it all. For my money, I've been very happy with the Flacco led Ravens, as they have gotten three AFCGC appearances, one win, and a Super Bowl win. They have taken over supremacy in the AFC North division over the hated Pittsburgh Steelers the last two years, all under Flacco. This has been done over the last five years with a good, but slowly aging defense, that has gotten progressively worse, with the Super Bowl year hitting 16th in overall defense. Many have pointed out Flacco's weakness in some playoff games against the Texans and Steelers, and although they were not the best, you still had a horrible offensive co-ordinator in Cam Cameron running the offense. Will Flacco continue to blossom under Cladwell, that is the question ?

 

One other detail people never get Flacco credit for his his ability to win playoff games on the road. He was highly responsible for that dramatic playoff win in Denver, and two playoff wins over the Patriots at Gillette Stadium, which is a brutal place to play. Ozzie did the correct thing is making over this team, because the last time, they resigned high priced veterans, and failed in the 2001 playoffs. Of course the Jamal Lewis injury, Matt Cavanaugh,  and Billick banking on a ridiculous Elvis Gerbac, contributed to the loss to Pittsburgh. Flacco now has eight years to catch Brady in Super Bowl titles, but historically, if you got one more in eight years, you would be fortunate. 

 

This will be an interesting year for Flacco, because his two best receivers are now gone. Boldin was great for us, and his best friend and target Dennis Pitta, is gone for the year. Much will depend now on the offensive line, and the running and playmaking of Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce. Ed Dickson is a very good tight end . He was drafted in the 3rd round 70th pick, while Pitta was the fourth round 114th pick. As I pointed out, Dickson has caught 75 passes the last two seasons in limited roles. He is very fast, but needs to work on his hands , catching the ball. The Ravens will probably have to abandon the two tight end set, as I see Shianco as a stop gap. One thing that the Ravens have proven, is that they can win with injuries, like the ones they had last year to Reed, Lewis, and Webb, among others. I'm still optimistic, but the Pitta loss was a bad blow to the offense, combined with Boldin moving to SF. 

[Superman]

I have noticed this discrepancy up here. I will give you my view and you can take it for what it is worth from someone who has been following the Pats since the early 80’s. I am also a native Bostonian so you can factor that in as well for better or for worse.

 

In 2000, the year the Pats drafted Brady, the team was transitioning from the Pete Carroll years which were a mess to the Belichick era. The team also had not made the playoffs since 1997. The Pats went 5-11 that season and everyone in NE was irate that Kraft had given up a #1 pick to the Jets for Belichick. All of us remembered his less than stellar stint in Cleveland and felt his coaching style was cold and that he didn’t connect with the players.

 

In 2001, the team began 0-2 losing to the Bengals and Jets (both horrible teams that year). When Bledsoe got injured, I remember being excited to see Damon Huard play QB. The Pats had gotten him that season as back-up to Bledsoe and were paying him a million dollars. To our surprise, in comes Brady. I had no idea Brady had moved to the #2 spot to be honest as Bledsoe rarely ever got injured so his back-up was not a big story.

 

When Brady stepped on the field what was most noticeable was his pocket presence and ability to get rid of the ball quickly as compared to Bledsoe who would just stand in the pocket for what seemed like an eternity with very little lateral movement. As a result, the offense began quickly moving down the field and rarely did it seem like Brady was being pressured. That is important because one of the main reasons believed for the Pats struggles was the Oline’s inability to protect Bledsoe and in truth, the Oline was not that great that year. But my mid-season the reporters were all saying how the Oline had gelled and were playing better but we all saw that it was Brady that was making them look better because of his quick release once the ball was snapped.

 

In addition, Brady was able to read the blitz and beat the blitz. This was probably Bledsoe’s biggest weakness in his game. He was terrible under pressure. So while Brady was not throwing bombs down the field hence his stats looking very average, what he was doing was not taking any negative plays and methodically moving the offense.

 

In terms of the skill positions, Troy Brown had been cut twice by the Pats since 1996. For whatever reason, he and Bledsoe did not gel together. When Brady stepped in, he became the best receiver on the team much to everyone’s surprise. Terry Glenn who many forget was still on the Pats that year, held out when Bledsoe went down and refused to play. Brady I think played one or two games with him and that was it. So Brady did not have the Pats best receiver at his disposal that year but he made due with Brown, Patten, Coleman, and Jermaine Wiggins as his TE going 14-3 and ending the season on a 9 game winning streak which included the playoffs.

 

While the defense was good, it was not great. I believe it was ranked in the mid-teens for yardage as it tended to let up a lot of big plays. But again as the season rolled along, they too got better because Brady rarely turned over the ball, again unlike Bledsoe, and almost never took negative plays so they could play from a position of strength.

 

But I think what really cemented Brady as that guy was his leadership. I remember Lawyer Milloy saying that when Brady took over the Pats finally had a true leader in the huddle. I also remember Ty Law saying that stats are great but winning trumps all and Brady is a winner. These were defensive players saying this remember.

 

I think what we all understand in NE is that as much as those Pats champ teams were about the team, without Brady there are no rings. And that fact really can’t be argued even by the biggest haters. He is the one that brought “team” to the Pats in every sense of the word with his play and attitude. I think when all is said and done, he will be the top guy on the NE Mount Rushmore of great sports stars. He will be ahead of Bird, Williams, and Orr. Just my opinion but he came out of nowhere literally and took Bledsoe’s job, went toe-to-toe with Manning and won and is still the hardest working guy on the team.

 

So like I said, while you can nit-pick at his stats and try to use them as a reason why Brady should not be given as much credit as he is during the early years, they truly only tell half the story. The QB because of the nature of his position as team leader, unlike any other position in sports, can literally take an average team and make them champions ... that is what Brady did and everyone in NE knows it.

 

All that flowery praise is great, but you have to admit that you're biased.

[amfootball]

All that flowery praise is great, but you have to admit that you're biased.

I would not consider myself that biased to be honest. I was a HUGE Bledsoe fan as were most Pats fans at the time. When he and Parcells took the helm in 1992 the Pats were finally on the map as a legit contender after a five year period that was worth forgetting. Bledsoe was not just a great QB, he was a tremedous guy in the community and I grew to respect him even more after how he handled being replaced.

 

And as I mentioned, I was looking forward to Huard coming in given his success in Miami replacing Marino when he got injured. I think he went 5-1 or something.

 

I remember watching Brady and thinking how simple he made the offense look. I had never seen a QB who was so young and inexperienced look so calm and poised. And then when his teammates commented on his leadership and football intelligence, I began to see him for the supreme talent he was and kept wondering how on earth he fell to the sixth round.

 

You can call my summary flowery praise but I would bet that most Pats fans here would agree with my recollection. There was a stark contrast between Brady and Bledsoe and that is what propelled the team to all those wins that year and the years after.