Luck ranked #10 by Jaws in QB rankings

[House]

Arians DID run the O, but in last minute situations... when Luck was "turned loose" he EXCELLED....

Arians is a part of one of the most satisfying seasons in Indy Colt history....

That said... I cannot wait until AL and Pep start doing what they do....

Arians is old school.... that's fine.

I for one am just glad he is old school in ZONA.

Yeah Luck in the two minute drill, or must win situations, last year was lethal.

[Superman]

It's your schtick man. You always try to appear like you are toting the fence when you really have very pointed opinions and then when you are called on it you say but I didn't say that. You remind of Herman Edwards who will talk aout a  player and say what a great football player he is and then at the end he will throw in "but he can't play QB."

 

Don't accuse me of being a flip flopper just because you can't grasp nuance.

 

I'm not toting the fence on Arians at all. Never was. I was very critical of his play calling and game planning during the season, while at the same time praising him for the way he was guiding the team.

 

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/17611-how-much-does-losing-bruce-arians-hurt-the-colts/?p=476611

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/12652-i-thought-arians-game-management-was-improving/

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/13871-the-norv-turner-to-indy-as-oc-rumors-begin/?p=368078

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/13962-arians-on-taking-a-hc-job/?p=370145

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/17611-how-much-does-losing-bruce-arians-hurt-the-colts/?p=476663

 

I'm not being critical of Bruce Arians just because he's not here, and I'm trying to minimize what his impact was. I was critical of him all along. At the same time, I do know how lucky we were to have him, and how good of a job he did standing in. But I still don't like his play calling.

[amfootball]

Don't accuse me of being a flip flopper just because you can't grasp nuance.

 

I'm not toting the fence on Arians at all. Never was. I was very critical of his play calling and game planning during the season, while at the same time praising him for the way he was guiding the team.

 

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/17611-how-much-does-losing-bruce-arians-hurt-the-colts/?p=476611

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/12652-i-thought-arians-game-management-was-improving/

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/13871-the-norv-turner-to-indy-as-oc-rumors-begin/?p=368078

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/13962-arians-on-taking-a-hc-job/?p=370145

 

I'm not being critical of Bruce Arians just because he's not here, and I'm trying to minimize what his impact was. I was critical of him all along. At the same time, I do know how lucky we were to have him, and how good of a job he did standing in. But I still don't like his play calling.

lol. You are proving my point. Classic flip flopping or should I say nuancing?

[amfootball]

Arians DID run the O, but in last minute situations...  when Luck was "turned loose"  he EXCELLED.... 

 

Arians is a part of one of the most satisfying seasons in Indy Colt history....

 

That said...   I cannot wait until AL and Pep start doing what they do.... 

 

Arians is old school....      that's fine.

 

I for one am just glad he is old school in ZONA.    

I get it. When things went bad it was Arian. When good it was Luck. This is like 18 all over again. I should have smelled it.

[John Dee]

And I could never understand WHY the Colt staff did not let him run with it?

 

When AL was in 2 minute mode he was .....       as you said "LETHAL".

 

But....  

 

 

Yeah Luck in the two minute drill, or must win situations, last year was lethal.

[Superman]

lol. You are proving my point. Classic flip flopping or should I say nuancing?

 

I can't dislike a coach's play calling, while at the same time appreciate his leadership?

 

Or how about this: Can't I appreciate how a coach performs as a coordinator, but think he's not cut out to be a good head coach? Isn't that Wade Phillips or Norv Turner?

 

Nothing is ever all one way or the other. Bruce Arians did a good job as the head coach, but his play calling was undesirable. I've already given examples. If someone is too simple to understand the difference between the two, that's not my problem. The things I'm saying about Arians now are the same things I was saying during the season. That's not flip flopping.

[amfootball]

I don't think many think poorly of Arians. Your just painting that picture to prove a point. Some may be bigger critics than others, but everyone knows he helped us have a great season last year.

I don't have proof of this, but I would be shocked to learn Andrew was allowed to audible any time he wanted. Because I've never heard of giving a rookie QB that kind of authority, and control of an offense. Not to mention that, besides the run game, the offense here looked just like the one run in Pittsburg all those years. So I don't think it's subjective to say Arians pulled the strings for the offense, and the play calling.

Andrew's picks are on him, but Arians play calling made it much more difficult for his rookie QB. He also ran a significant amount, so it seemed, of no back sets. This kind of play calling, on 3rd down especially, put a ton of pressure on Luck. Andrew answered the bell, but he was essentially on a long ball clinic all season. Which again leads to many many mistakes.

Steelers fans came here to thank us for taking Arians when we took him as our OC. Criticisms of his play calling are nothing new, and certainly not something specific to Colts fans.

You need to go back and re-read the posts if you think I am painting a picture. I am just observing the picture my friend.

 

Alll Qbs are given audibles in case the defense is stacked against a certain play and certainly Luck as the number one pick who is known for his cerebral abilities would be allowed to. How often he did it, who knows? But it is very obtuse to assume the plays were all on Arian.

 

Steelers fans may have thanked you before the season but when they saw their team disintegrate at the end in large part due to Ben's frosty relationsup with Haley, I bet they wished Arians was back considering the job he did in Indy to the tune of COY.

[House]

I get it. When things went bad it was Arian. When good it was Luck. This is like 18 all over again. I should have smelled it.

yeah he said, nor inferred, anything like what you said at all.

[John Dee]

Oh Christ....      don't turn into a QBoy...    Please...  I kinda like you.

 

Arians was very arrogant in his play calling.   And I hated it.   

 

Luck was bad a lot last year ...   but who isn't when they are a rookie?

 

I'm just not a fan of BA...      Pep will bring Luck's better attributes to the forefront.  

 

I get it. When things went bad it was Arian. When good it was Luck. This is like 18 all over again. I should have smelled it.

[Superman]

yeah he said, nor inferred, anything like what you said at all.

 

It's like talking to a crazy person. They create their own reality.

[amfootball]

I can't dislike a coach's play calling, while at the same time appreciate his leadership?

 

Or how about this: Can't I appreciate how a coach performs as a coordinator, but think he's not cut out to be a good head coach? Isn't that Wade Phillips or Norv Turner?

 

Nothing is ever all one way or the other. Bruce Arians did a good job as the head coach, but his play calling was undesirable. I've already given examples. If someone is too simple to understand the difference between the two, that's not my problem. The things I'm saying about Arians now are the same things I was saying during the season. That's not flip flopping.

You can say whatever you want but it sounds foolish when discussing a guy who won COY on a team picked to win a handful of games with a rookie QB ...

[BOTT]

I get it. When things went bad it was Arian. When good it was Luck. This is like 18 all over again. I should have smelled it.

Good god, the only smell in here is your Bull*%**

[amfootball]

Oh Christ....      don't turn into a QBoy...    Please...  I kinda like you.

 

Arians was very arrogant in his play calling.   And I hated it.   

 

Luck was bad a lot last year ...   but who isn't when they are a rookie?

 

I'm just not a fan of BA...      Pep will bring Luck's better attributes to the forefront.  

 

I don't know man. I just liked Arians a lot and here I am on a Colt forum defending him. I hope Pagano wins at least 11 games or I can only imagine the roasting he will get. I think Colt fans need to appreciate more and be less critical IMO. It might help lighten the mood here. lol

[jvan1973]

lol. You are proving my point. Classic flip flopping or should I say nuancing?

don't be a hater just because you don't own a dictionary

[Jules]

You can say whatever you want but it sounds foolish when discussing a guy who won COY on a team picked to win a handful of games with a rookie QB ...

 

So because he won COY he is immune to criticism? So I suppose those awards trump all.

 

Gotcha.

 

Seriously am I often have liked you so lets not get too carried away here. PEOPLE LIKE ARIANS. They just didn't always love his play calling.

 

What is so tough to understand here? How many directions has this thread gone in? I like the Schaub is garbage angle better.

[House]

You need to go back and re-read the posts if you think I am painting a picture. I am just observing the picture my friend.

Alll Qbs are given audibles in case the defense is stacked against a certain play and certainly Luck as the number one pick who is known for his cerebral abilities would be allowed to. How often he did it, who knows? But it is very obtuse to assume the plays were all on Arian.

Steelers fans may have thanked you before the season but when they saw their team disintegrate at the end in large part due to Ben's frosty relationsup with Haley, I bet they wished Arians was back considering the job he did in Indy to the tune of COY.

I've read all of the thread, especially your overreactions to those critiquing Arians play calling lol.

Where did I say he wasn't allowed to audible? Where did I say he never audibled? I'll wait. I guarantee you more times than not Andrew ran exactly what Bruce wanted.

Your trying to tell the story as if Luck ran a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady offense. He did not.

The offense was 100% Arians style. That offense was of his design that's not even a question. Because if it wasn't, what would be the point of an OC?

Steelers fans would tell you they are paying the price of Arians play calling. They would tell you Ben is as damaged as he his because of Arians.

But again taking an objective approach to his flaws as an OC, doesn't denigrate what he did here last year.

[Jules]

I get it. When things went bad it was Arian. When good it was Luck. This is like 18 all over again. I should have smelled it.

 

 

What does Peyton have to do with it?

 

Why does everything always go back to Peyton when he has nothing to do with the topic either?

 

If you are painting us out as die hard QB fan boys/gals then look in the mirror too when it comes to Tom Brady!!!

[amfootball]

So because he won COY he is immune to criticism? So I suppose those awards trump all.

 

Gotcha.

 

Seriously am I often have liked you so lets not get too carried away here. PEOPLE LIKE ARIANS. They just didn't always love his play calling.

 

What is so tough to understand here? How many directions has this thread gone in? I like the Schaub is garbage angle better.

I hear ya but his play calling was a big reason why the Colts had success. Sure no one is above criticism but to be happy he is gone makes no sense. That is all I am saying. I know there are strong feelings for Pagano but he has huge expectations to fill so I hope you go a little easier on him.

[Superman]

You can say whatever you want but it sounds foolish when discussing a guy who won COY on a team picked to win a handful of games with a rookie QB ...

 

 

COY doesn't mean you're above reproach. 

 

And again, a coach's responsibilities as the head coach differ from his responsibilities as the offensive coordinator. He can be very good in one area, while being underwhelming in another area. Simultaneously pointing out one's positives and negatives doesn't meaning you're toting the fence. It means you can appreciate the good while still acknowledging the bad.

 

And as we've all said, the bad was acknowledged a long time before Arians left. We're not just bringing it up now, like spurned lovers.

[House]

It's like talking to a crazy person. They create their own reality.

Well I mean I had to laugh when a guy, who never says a bad word about the Pats, gets on others for "special treatment."

[John Dee]

Could it be REMOTELY possible ... that "IF MAYBE BA LET A LUCK RUN NO HUDDLE"  that....

 

1  Luck takes a far less beating...

2  The O preforms better

 

I have another theory on the way the O was handled ... but... that would really stir things up, and I am tired...

I don't know man. I just liked Arians a lot and here I am on a Colt forum defending him. I hope Pagano wins at least 11 games or I can only imagine the roasting he will get. I think Colt fans need to appreciate more and be less critical IMO. It might help lighten the mood here. lol

[amfootball]

I've read all of the thread, especially your overreactions to those critiquing Arians play calling lol.

Where did I say he wasn't allowed to audible? Where did I say he never audibled? I'll wait. I guarantee you more times than not Andrew ran exactly what Bruce wanted.

Your trying to tell the story as if Luck ran a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady offense. He did not.

The offense was 100% Arians style. That offense was of his design that's not even a question. Because if it wasn't, what would be the point of an OC?

Steelers fans would tell you they are paying the price of Arians play calling. They would tell you Ben is as damaged as he his because of Arians.

But again taking an objective approach to his flaws as an OC, doesn't denigrate what he did here last year.

Steeler fans tend to not be very bright but Ben is as damaged as he is because he plays his best football when the play breaks down ala school yard ball which is why he is a mess. He won a SB with Arians ..

[John Dee]

SPOT ON

Well I mean I had to laugh when a guy, who never says a bad word about the Pats, gets on others for "special treatment."

[Superman]

What does Peyton have to do with it?

 

Why does everything always go back to Peyton when he has nothing to do with the topic either?

 

If you are painting us out as die hard QB fan boys/gals then look in the mirror too when it comes to Tom Brady!!!

 

What I feel like when debating am:

 

 

I don't know why I keep doing it.

[House]

I hear ya but his play calling was a big reason why the Colts had success. Sure no one is above criticism but to be happy he is gone makes no sense. That is all I am saying. I know there are strong feelings for Pagano but he has huge expectations to fill so I hope you go a little easier on him.

Lol his play calling was a big big part of why we were successful. But it was also the reason some of Andrew's stats are so bipolar.

So people who are "happy" he is gone are only happy because they believe Pep will run a more conventional "Luck style" offense.

[Qwiz]

[amfootball]

Could it be REMOTELY possible ... that "IF MAYBE BA LET A LUCK RUN NO HUDDLE"  that....

 

1  Luck takes a far less beating...

2  The O preforms better

 

I have another theory on the way the O was handled ... but... that would really stir things up, and I am tired...

Tough to run a no huddle all the time because the D would catch on. But I do wish more teams ran it more.

 

What is your other idea? It is not that late .. get some coffee.

[amfootball]

Well I mean I had to laugh when a guy, who never says a bad word about the Pats, gets on others for "special treatment."

Right on. I am just trying to keep you guys honest. lol.

[BOTT]

You need to go back and re-read the posts if you think I am painting a picture. I am just observing the picture my friend.

 

Alll Qbs are given audibles in case the defense is stacked against a certain play and certainly Luck as the number one pick who is known for his cerebral abilities would be allowed to. How often he did it, who knows? But it is very obtuse to assume the plays were all on Arian.

 

Steelers fans may have thanked you before the season but when they saw their team disintegrate at the end in large part due to Ben's frosty relationsup with Haley, I bet they wished Arians was back considering the job he did in Indy to the tune of COY.

The Steelers went down hill due to injuries....which included Big Ben who was really never health after getting injured midseason.

And feel free to ask Steeler fans if they want BA back....I'm guessing they will say no thanks.

[House]

Steeler fans tend to not be very bright but Ben is as damaged as he is because he plays his best football when the play breaks down ala school yard ball which is why he is a mess. He won a SB with Arians ..

True, but he also took a lot of hits waiting for those long plays to develop. And when those plays broke down he would open himself up to scrambling hits.

Just because there are criticisms to his play calling, doesn't mean he's a bum or that anyone even thinks like that.

[amfootball]

Lol his play calling was a big big part of why we were successful. But it was also the reason some of Andrew's stats are so bipolar.

So people who are "happy" he is gone are only happy because they believe Pep will run a more conventional "Luck style" offense.

That is fair but that may come at a sacrifice to the big plays that Andrew also became known for.

[House]

That is fair but that may come at a sacrifice to the big plays that Andrew also became known for.

Very true, I'm personally hoping Pep will take a few plays out of the Arians play book, because a few of our pieces have tremendous big play ability. However, I would like to see a little more running plays, and a little more short yardage stuff.

[BOTT]

Steeler fans tend to not be very bright but Ben is as damaged as he is because he plays his best football when the play breaks down ala school yard ball which is why he is a mess. He won a SB with Arians ..

Everywhere Arians has been OC the quarterback takes abuse. His quarterbacks have been sacked an average of 43 times per season in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Indy.

[Superman]

Steeler fans tend to not be very bright but Ben is as damaged as he is because he plays his best football when the play breaks down ala school yard ball which is why he is a mess. He won a SB with Arians ..

 

My, what broad brushstrokes you have...

 

 

That is fair but that may come at a sacrifice to the big plays that Andrew also became known for.

 

A few months ago, in a similar discussion, I posted what Andrew Luck's stats might have looked like if he were as efficient as Roethlisberger was last season. I'm talking completion percentage, sack percentage, adjusted yards/attempt, etc. It's hard to argue that a more efficient, less vertical offense would hurt the Colts. We can do without leading the league in attempts downfield, so long as Luck completes a higher percentage of his passes and gets hit less. It could easily mean an extra 4-6 points per game.

[Superman]

Very true, I'm personally hoping Pep will take a few plays out of the Arians play book, because a few of our pieces have tremendous big play ability. However, I would like to see a little more running plays, and a little more short yardage stuff.

 

That's what everyone is saying the plan is, so far.

[amfootball]

My, what broad brushstrokes you have...

 

 

 

A few months ago, in a similar discussion, I posted what Andrew Luck's stats might have looked like if he were as efficient as Roethlisberger was last season. I'm talking completion percentage, sack percentage, adjusted yards/attempt, etc. It's hard to argue that a more efficient, less vertical offense would hurt the Colts. We can do without leading the league in attempts downfield, so long as Luck completes a higher percentage of his passes and gets hit less. It could easily mean an extra 4-6 points per game.

Do you have a soft spot for Steeler fans? lol.

 

Balance is important for sure but too much short yardage and you run into the main issue for the Pats which is loss of the big play. There is not a more efficient O than the Pats but it takes longer to score and hurts you if you are behind.

[John Dee]

Big plays?  That he "BECAME KNOWN FOR"  ???  

 

Andrew Luck became KNOWN for his late game poise and productivity. 

 

Bro you really NEED to go back and watch EVERY Indy Colt game last season before popping off.

 

Because honestly ...   you have no clue.

That is fair but that may come at a sacrifice to the big plays that Andrew also became known for.

[amfootball]

Big plays?  That he "BECAME KNOWN FOR"  ???  

 

Andrew Luck became KNOWN for his late game poise and productivity. 

 

Bro you really NEED to go back and watch EVERY Indy Colt game last season before popping off.

 

Because honestly ...   you have no clue.

You really are tired. Are you brewing that coffee now? By big plays that is what I mean, the plays to win the game. Not 50 yard bombs ..

[Superman]

Do you have a soft spot for Steeler fans? lol.

 

Balance is important for sure but too much short yardage and you run into the main issue for the Pats which is loss of the big play. There is not a more efficient O than the Pats but it takes longer to score and hurts you if you are behind.

 

I don't care one lick about Steeler fans. Just surprising to hear someone designate the lot of them as "not very bright."

 

I'd gladly trade the Colts' big play offense of 2012 with the Patriots league-leading 34.8 points/game. But it doesn't have to be one way or the other. We can be a team with the potential to stretch the field, but, specifically in 2012, we could have game planned around our weaknesses a little more to keep Luck from getting sacked 41 times. I'm not saying we should scrap the vertical elements of the offense. I just want us to be more balanced and efficient.

 

Those two words -- balanced and efficient -- have never been used to describe a Bruce Arians offense. For better or for worse...

[John Dee]

heeheee..   I am a bit tired..   

 

There are SO MANY to count...  ;)

 

Whatever...      

 

 

Only a couple months away...

You really are tired. Are you brewing that coffee now? By big plays that is what I mean, the plays to win the game. Not 50 yard bombs ..