Grigson Speaks

[Superman]

Some might find this relevant. I did...

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/75556/ryan-grigson-avoids-misinformation-game

 

 

I’m just not big on smokescreens. I feel it takes your eye off the ball. Since I’ve started this process, I just don’t feel the need for cloak and dagger because I need to focus on my job and doing my job 100 percent of the time.

 

[GoColts8818]

Again based on what I have read about this draft the talent from about 20 to 40 is being graded out to be about the same.  So unless someone really slips that the Colts just think they are getting a steal on or unless they are just totally in love with someone I fully agree with trading back and getting more picks.  With that said the Colts have to find a team willing to trade with them.  They aren't going to be the only ones who know that this trade is having the talent grading out to being about the same for picks between 20 and 40.  So I am not sure how many teams are going to be looking to jump up.  So if we don't make a trade it could just be the Colts couldn't find someone to trade with. 

[HtownColt]

Grigson said in the video that "if there is a blue(blue chip player) there at 24, a sure fire starter/ eventual starter that he feels good about that's going to strengthen the team and fit the vision we have then he will pluck him, but if there are only guys that are like boy oh boy uhhhh if we had a 2nd we would take him, thats bad business, then we will try and trade back"

That's me paraphrasing his answer as close as possible to what he said to the picking at 24 question.

[BlueShoe]

We don't have the ammunition to trade up....   just a 1/3/4 in the first 5 rounds....

 

So,  if we offer a 1 and a 3 to trade up then we'll have no other picks until the late 4th round.   

 

I will be beyond shocked if that happens.    This is a draft that is tailor made for Grigson.    I don't see the draft ending with the Colts standing pat and simply using their picks at 1/3/4.     Just 3 players in 5 rounds?    Not for Ryan Grigson.   Not in this draft. I just don't see it.

 

I think this draft is perfect for him.....    perfect.

 

There are several options. I am not saying we will trade up. I am saying that I believe we will trade up before we trade down.

 

For example, lets imagine that cooper falls to 15. If the Colts are high on him (and might be), it would be worth giving up our 3rd with NO to secure him, over taking an extra 4th to move back to 30 and pick up another 4th.

 

This thing can go down several ways, but I don't see us trading back just because we are starting off down two picks in the first 5 rounds.

[HtownColt]

Grigson also says that " when him and Pagano talk about offense and defense moving foward he says that we want to remain as versatile as possible so we can play the best players instead of getting/drafting "cookie cutter" players just because they fit a certain scheme regardless if they are dynamic or not then I think you sell yourself short, and says of course were not going to play with a 240lb NT but you get the point. There's got to be a balance you want to draft/get the best players"

Paraphrasing once again but sounds like They want to be as versatile as possible and not just have a label stamped on our offense and defense, they want an offense and defense that is versatile to do it all.

[BleedBlu8792]

There are several options. I am not saying we will trade up. I am saying that I believe we will trade up before we trade down.

For example, lets imagine that cooper falls to 15. If the Colts are high on him (and might be), it would be worth giving up our 3rd with NO to secure him, over taking an extra 4th to move back to 30 and pick up another 4th.

This thing can go down several ways, but I don't see us trading back just because we are starting off down two picks in the first 5 rounds.

Our 1st and 3rd isn't going to land us anywhere near the top-15. Our 1st could possibly land us two 2nd's though. As others have said, there is no point in reaching on players who could be had later on. I'd much rather see the Colts gain extra picks, while still being able to target quality, and get quantity in return.

I'd be surprised if we stay at #24. The only way I see us staying there is if Cooper or Rhodes is there.

[Superman]

This thing can go down several ways, but I don't see us trading back just because we are starting off down two picks in the first 5 rounds.

 

I agree with that. I think Grigson is perfectly content with the picks we have, so long as he likes the value for the players on the board at the time. So he's not going in thinking "I don't have enough picks, I'm going to trade out of #24 to get more."

 

But if he's not content with his options at #24, he's clearly suggesting that he'll trade down.

[BlueShoe]

This is strange to me.

 

Grigson's words: We’re going to probably look to trading out if there’s a player there that we feel is just OK.

 

How do you translate that to "no intentions of trading back"?

 

If he moves back, then what does that say about his first pick? I am sure players like to come to camp knowing they were the "OK" pick. No GM in his right mind would make that statement and then do it.

[jvan1973]

If he moves back, then what does that say about his first pick? I am sure players like to come to camp knowing they were the "OK" pick. No GM in his right mind would make that statement and then do it.

yet teams do it every year

[BlueShoe]

yet teams do it every year

 

They do not do it after they make a comment like that. Don't believe anything you hear from teams the last few weeks of the draft. We aren't trading down.

[Superman]

If he moves back, then what does that say about his first pick? I am sure players like to come to camp knowing they were the "OK" pick. No GM in his right mind would make that statement and then do it.

 

Trading down is a routine occurence in the NFL draft.

 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, he likes Robert Woods, but believes he'll be there at #40. He can trade down from #24, draft Woods, and get an extra third rounder. And Woods, who was passed over by every team in the first round, will have a chip on his shoulder due to that. But it won't be like the Colts are the only team that didn't think he was worthy of a high pick. There will be 16 other picks between #24 and #40.

 

Like I said earlier, it's about the value in this draft for the player they want. Grigson might like a player, but feel like he can get him at a later spot, and would like the value of the added pick.

 

Either way, for Grigson -- a guy with a reputation as a straight shooter -- to come out and basically say he's willing to trade down if he isn't crazy about what's available at #24, I think that's telling. It doesn't mean that he intends to trade down. But I do take him at his word.

 

 

 

We’re going to probably look to trading out if there’s a player there that we feel is just OK.

 

 

There's not a whole lot to decode there.

[BlueShoe]

Trading down is a routine occurence in the NFL draft.

 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, he likes Robert Woods, but believes he'll be there at #40. He can trade down from #24, draft Woods....

 

I just want to stop you right there. If Grigson believes that Woods is the right pick for us then he will take him at #24. GMs rarely take chances like you are talking about unless there are several players left on the board that they want. Woods is a possible, and we could even go as far to say, likely 1st round pick. He is one of the guys I believe is on our radar at #24. If he is a guy that Grigson wants, and he is there then why gamble it away? He wouldn't. He would just make the pick.

[RomanianColtsFan]

The thing I get tired the most as the draft approaches is the endless speculation. Grigson proved last year that he knows how to draft based on his experience as a scout and watching a lot of video material. I believe he knows what he is doing, he's got certain principles he follows, which is good. Therefore this year I just can't wait to get to the draft and see what Grigson gets out of the cookie jar.

[Superman]

I just want to stop you right there. If Grigson believes that Woods is the right pick for us then he will take him at #24. GMs rarely take chances like you are talking about unless there are several players left on the board that they want. Woods is a possible, and we could even go as far to say, likely 1st round pick. He is one of the guys I believe is on our radar at #24. If he is a guy that Grigson wants, and he is there then why gamble it away? He wouldn't. He would just make the pick.

 

That's a different topic. I'm not arguing where Woods should go, or whether we should draft him. This draft and the board is all over the place, and I'm done trying to predict where anyone will be picked. I just used Woods as an example.

 

But Grigson very plainly said he's willing to trade down, assuming he's not excited about anyone there at #24. Most people take that to mean that he's willing to trade down. You're somehow getting the exact opposite impression, which is weird. There's not a lot to decode.

 

...

 

I wonder if you read anything beyond where you want me to stop.

[BlueShoe]

The thing I get tired the most as the draft approaches is the endless speculation. Grigson proved last year that he knows how to draft based on his experience as a scout and watching a lot of video material. I believe he knows what he is doing, he's got certain principles he follows, which is good. Therefore this year I just can't wait to get to the draft and see what Grigson gets out of the cookie jar.

 

I agree. That said, I like to have an opinion about what is going on. That is what a message board is for, even though some members think they own all of the opinions. Don't worry though, if we trade up or stay put then all of the people arguing with me will say they knew it all along. I have seen this ugly trend for 20 years on Colts boards.

[NewColtsFan]

Cam Newton wasn't even being called a 1st round talent. Being projeted to go in the first doesn't necessarily make you a first round talent.

 

 

Wasn't being called a first round talent?    By whom?

 

He may not have been called the first overall pick,  but I'm hard pressed to come up with anyone who didn't think he was a first round talent.     Who are we talking about,  Bleacher Report??

[NewColtsFan]

You must not have read what he said.

 

He can't move back and draft a player now. Not after that statement. He took away his ability to move back in this draft and still hold a press conference saying that he got the guy he wanted. We are staying at #24 or we are moving up. It is very simple when you think about it.

 

 

After what statement?

 

Practically nothing any GM says in a press interview locks him into anything......

 

Grigson basically said,  if he doesn't love the guy at 24,  he's willing to trade back.   I think that gives him all the flexibility he needs.....

[BlueShoe]

That's a different topic. I'm not arguing where Woods should go, or whether we should draft him. This draft and the board is all over the place, and I'm done trying to predict where anyone will be picked. I just used Woods as an example.

 

But Grigson very plainly said he's willing to trade down, assuming he's not excited about anyone there at #24. Most people take that to mean that he's willing to trade down. You're somehow getting the exact opposite impression, which is weird. There's not a lot to decode.

 

...

 

I wonder if you read anything beyond where you want me to stop.

 

You can't believe what teams say about the draft a few weeks from the draft. I will agree that I have no idea where these players are going to fall this year. Usually I am very good at predicting most of the first round players taken, but this year it is very tough to figure out. It is more of a guessing game than I can ever remember.

[Dustin]

Wasn't being called a first round talent?    By whom?

 

He may not have been called the first overall pick,  but I'm hard pressed to come up with anyone who didn't think he was a first round talent.     Who are we talking about,  Bleacher Report??

 

Probably not going to be able to find many 2 year old draft articles, but here's something I dug up. I don't think that the comparison to Tebow is accurate at all though.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=6178028

 

There were other articles that said the same thing. Not the majority mind you, but there were a lot of them.

[BlueShoe]

After what statement?

 

Practically nothing any GM says in a press interview locks him into anything......

 

Grigson basically said,  if he doesn't love the guy at 24,  he's willing to trade back.   I think that gives him all the flexibility he needs.....

 

So lets say Grigson moves back 6 spots and then makes a pick. I am sure the player he takes is going to feel welcomed after Grigson said he is not taking a player at #24 unless he can feel proud of it. Yeah, new player, we didn't like you at #24 but you grew on us at #30. LOL

 

Not the way to start a good relationship. If you don't think players are paying attention to things like this then you haven't been paying attention the past 30 drafts. I have.

[NewColtsFan]

I agree. That said, I like to have an opinion about what is going on. That is what a message board is for, even though some members think they own all of the opinions. Don't worry though, if we trade up or stay put then all of the people arguing with me will say they knew it all along. I have seen this ugly trend for 20 years on Colts boards.

 

Really?

 

Have their been internet fan message boards for 20 years?

 

I didn't find one until 1999.    You found one in 1993?     Really?

[Dustin]

[BlueShoe]

Really?

 

Have their been internet fan message boards for 20 years?

 

I didn't find one until 1999.    You found one in 1993?     Really?

 

Yep.

[Superman]

Probably not going to be able to find many 2 year old draft articles, but here's something I dug up. I don't think that the comparison to Tebow is accurate at all though.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=6178028

 

There were other articles that said the same thing. Not the majority mind you, but there were a lot of them.

 

That's kind of lightweight. First, it's a month and a half before the draft. Second, Newton was one of the most controversial guys in the draft that year, for a couple of legitimate reasons (the Auburn/eligibility issue, and him only having one year as a D1 quarterback). But as the draft approached, especially within a week of the draft, Newton was the consensus #1 pick.

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/20/2011-nfl-mock-draft/index.html -- Peter King's comments illustrate the controversy regarding Newton, but he still has him as the #1 pick.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2011/2011-Mock.php

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/19/2011-mock-draft-take-four/

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/nflmockdraft.html

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any credible mock draft or analyst from before the 2011 draft suggesting that Cam Newton wasn't going to go #1. And I'd venture to say that you won't find anyone who wasn't completely off their rocker who didn't have Newton going in the first round.

[BlueShoe]

 

[NewColtsFan]

Probably not going to be able to find many 2 year old draft articles, but here's something I dug up. I don't think that the comparison to Tebow is accurate at all though.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=6178028

 

There were other articles that said the same thing. Not the majority mind you, but there were a lot of them.

 

 

And yet,  he wasn't just taken in the first round,  he was taken 1st overall.

 

My point is when it comes to the draft,  everyone has an opinion.    There are lots of articles proclaiming this and that.   Heck, Skip Bayless still thinks Tim Tebow is a starting, winning NFL quarterback.    Even though 32 teams say otherwise....

 

Just because someone offers an opinion doesn't mean that opinion carries weight.    Even an ESPN opinion.

[BlueShoe]

And yet,  he wasn't just taken in the first round,  he was taken 1st overall.

 

My point is when it comes to the draft,  everyone has an opinion.    There are lots of articles proclaiming this and that.   Heck, Skip Bayless still thinks Tim Tebow is a starting, winning NFL quarterback.    Even though 32 teams say otherwise....

 

Just because someone offers an opinion doesn't mean that opinion carries weight.    Even an ESPN opinion.

 

Even on a message board. lol

 

[NewColtsFan]

So lets say Grigson moves back 6 spots and then makes a pick. I am sure the player he takes is going to feel welcomed after Grigson said he is not taking a player at #24 unless he can feel proud of it. Yeah, new player, we didn't like you at #24 but you grew on us at #30. LOL

 

Not the way to start a good relationship. If you don't think players are paying attention to things like this then you haven't been paying attention the past 30 drafts. I have.

 

You really think that player even knows what Grigson said in a 30 minute interview?    Teams trade back every year.   They select a player in a lower spot that they could've taken in a higher spot.    Your argument in each case then is the team has just insulted their new player.

 

Have you ever heard some player selected say that the team who picked him insulted him by trading back first?    I've been following the draft for more than 40 years and I've never heard a player say that.

 

I've heard players selected lower than they thought they'd go say they want to make every team that passed on them regret their decision.....   but I've never heard of a player say the team that picked them insulted them.

[Dustin]

And yet,  he wasn't just taken in the first round,  he was taken 1st overall.

 

My point is when it comes to the draft,  everyone has an opinion.    There are lots of articles proclaiming this and that.   Heck, Skip Bayless still thinks Tim Tebow is a starting, winning NFL quarterback.    Even though 32 teams say otherwise....

 

Just because someone offers an opinion doesn't mean that opinion carries weight.    Even an ESPN opinion.

 

 

That's kind of lightweight. First, it's a month and a half before the draft. Second, Newton was one of the most controversial guys in the draft that year, for a couple of legitimate reasons (the Auburn/eligibility issue, and him only having one year as a D1 quarterback). But as the draft approached, especially within a week of the draft, Newton was the consensus #1 pick.

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/04/20/2011-nfl-mock-draft/index.html -- Peter King's comments illustrate the controversy regarding Newton, but he still has him as the #1 pick.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/archive/2011/2011-Mock.php

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/19/2011-mock-draft-take-four/

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/nflmockdraft.html

 

You'll be hard pressed to find any credible mock draft or analyst from before the 2011 draft suggesting that Cam Newton wasn't going to go #1. And I'd venture to say that you won't find anyone who wasn't completely off their rocker who didn't have Newton going in the first round.

 

Ok fair enough. I think that's enough public shaming for me today.

 

I'll revise my point. He may have been considered a 1st round talent, but a lot of people were split on the decision of whether or not he was worth  the 1st pick (Not whether or not he was going to be picked #1 because that was a forgone conclusion).

[Superman]

You can't believe what teams say about the draft a few weeks from the draft. I will agree that I have no idea where these players are going to fall this year. Usually I am very good at predicting most of the first round players taken, but this year it is very tough to figure out. It is more of a guessing game than I can ever remember.

 

I generally agree. But Grigson isn't saying "we're looking to move back." My interpretation of his comment is that he's willing to move back if he's not in love with the value of the players there at #24, because getting the added pick would make it worth it. I don't think he is or should be worried about any player's feeling about not being drafted at #24, and instead being drafted at #30 or #40 or wherever. Be glad you got drafted, and get to work.

 

I agree that it's hard to have a strong feeling about what's going to happen in this draft. I think we'll see a couple of trades within the top ten, and then everyone's projections go out the window. The board changes drastically. I'm not one who is going to come back and say "I knew it all along." I'm admitting now, and have been for weeks, that I have NO IDEA what Grigson is going to do at #24. Him trading up would be the most surprising, given his comments and given the depth in this draft, but I suppose it's possible.

[NewColtsFan]

Even on a message board. lol

 

 

 

I was referring to a professional opinion....  I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

If you're saying you're not a fan of my opinion -- fine.    Somehow I'll manage to sleep at night and wake up the next day.

 

But,  thanks anyway.....      :slaphead:

[BlueShoe]

You really think that player even knows what Grigson said in a 30 minute interview?    Teams trade back every year.   They select a player in a lower spot that they could've taken in a higher spot.    Your argument in each case then is the team has just insulted their new player.

 

Have you ever heard some player selected say that the team who picked him insulted him by trading back first?    I've been following the draft for more than 40 years and I've never heard a player say that.

 

I've heard players selected lower than they thought they'd go say they want to make every team that passed on them regret their decision.....   but I've never heard of a player say the team that picked them insulted them.

 

 

They do not make statements like that and then trade back. He has painted himself into a box. He didn't have to say anything about trading back, but he did. Why would he tip his real hand? He wouldn't. Its a week until the draft so don't believe anything you hear or read.

[TKnight24]

Like beating a dead horse

But anyways........ Schedule release party in the Chat Room!!!!!!!!!

[NewColtsFan]

I'm not one who is going to come back and say "I knew it all along." I'm admitting now, and have been for weeks, that I have NO IDEA what Grigson is going to do at #24. 

 

I'm with you.    I've been banging the drum long and loud for a trade back.   But I've also said Grigson will stay at 24 if someone he loves somehow manages to slip down the board to the Colts.    He'll stay and use that pick. 

 

But I believe the chances are greater that that won't happen and he'll want to trade back.    I believe this draft is made for a GM like Grigson who loves to find talent.   And I don't believe he'll want the draft to end with the Colts only having three new players from the first five rounds of this draft.    I can't see that happening.    Seems very un-Grigson like to me.

[BlueShoe]

I generally agree. But Grigson isn't saying "we're looking to move back." My interpretation of his comment is that he's willing to move back if he's not in love with the value of the players there at #24, because getting the added pick would make it worth it. I don't think he is or should be worried about any player's feeling about not being drafted at #24, and instead being drafted at #30 or #40 or wherever. Be glad you got drafted, and get to work.

 

I agree that it's hard to have a strong feeling about what's going to happen in this draft. I think we'll see a couple of trades within the top ten, and then everyone's projections go out the window. The board changes drastically. I'm not one who is going to come back and say "I knew it all along." I'm admitting now, and have been for weeks, that I have NO IDEA what Grigson is going to do at #24. Him trading up would be the most surprising, given his comments and given the depth in this draft, but I suppose it's possible.

 

We are pretty much the same reason here, I just believe that I picked up on a tell-tell sign with Grigson. We will find out soon though. I was able to do this with Polian as well; however, Polian took a few extra years. To this day, I would not want to play poker with Polian for money. I believe Grigson is going to be much easier to read.

[NewColtsFan]

They do not make statements like that and then trade back. He has painted himself into a box. He didn't have to say anything about trading back, but he did. Why would he tip his real hand? He wouldn't. Its a week until the draft so don't believe anything you hear or read.

 

He's done no such thing.   He hasn't painted himself into any box.   He didn't tip his hand.

 

I don't know why you think he did?

 

All he did was allow for the possibility.    That's it.    He said he's open to the idea and willing to do it.    That's it.

 

Did he rule out anything?   No.    Did he rule out trading up?   No.    He ruled out nothing and only said he's open to all possibilities.     No box.   No tipping of any hand.

 

He's given himself complete freedom to do what he feels is best.    I honestly don't know why you think otherwise.....

[HtownColt]

They do not make statements like that and then trade back. He has painted himself into a box. He didn't have to say anything about trading back, but he did. Why would he tip his real hand? He wouldn't. Its a week until the draft so don't believe anything you hear or read.

He made a statement saying he will pluck a guy at 24 if he is a blue chipper, sure fire starter, or eventual starter that fits the vision of where the team is headed and that's to win championships. So he hinted on both of those scenarios.

[BlueShoe]

I was referring to a professional opinion....  I thought that was pretty obvious.

 

If you're saying you're not a fan of my opinion -- fine.    Somehow I'll manage to sleep at night and wake up the next day.

 

But,  thanks anyway.....      :slaphead:

 

Sure. Do you feel better now? I don't think that smacking yourself in the head is helpful, but maybe in your opinion it works. lol

[Superman]

They do not make statements like that and then trade back. He has painted himself into a box. He didn't have to say anything about trading back, but he did. Why would he tip his real hand? He wouldn't. Its a week until the draft so don't believe anything you hear or read.

 

Have you read this?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/49134/grigson-avoids-misinformation-game

 

I suppose this could be the biggest smokescreen ever, but I get the feeling Grigson can be taken at his word. He didn't say he's going to trade down. He just said he's open to it.

 

I'd like to know how the issue came up. It seems that Grigson was asked specifically whether he'd be open to trading back, and he said he would under certain circumstances. I don't think he painted himself into a box. I think he kept his options open.

[BlueShoe]

He's done no such thing.   He hasn't painted himself into any box.   He didn't tip his hand.

 

I don't know why you think he did?

 

All he did was allow for the possibility.    That's it.    He said he's open to the idea and willing to do it.    That's it.

 

Did he rule out anything?   No.    Did he rule out trading up?   No.    He ruled out nothing and only said he's open to all possibilities.     No box.   No tipping of any hand.

 

He's given himself complete freedom to do what he feels is best.    I honestly don't know why you think otherwise.....

 

Keep telling yourself that.