In Nfl You Don't Need A Qb To Win Games

[esmort]

Eli and Ben are mediocre. They are sub par QB's. They are pedestrian.

Giants and Steelers won SB with defense.

Next!

Ben Roethlisberger is far from pedestrian ... while I agree(and initially stated) that the defense was a big part of the Steelers success; Ben Roethlisberger is a good-to-very good QB (especially in clutch situations).

Eli Manning is the only average(not sub par) QB of the group(which I also stated).

[rockywoj]

The great 85 Bears .... Jim McMahon

[number28]

I think everyone has already established the fact that the Original Poster was absolutely wrong lol

no really. not everyone. many people would agree with me.

Ben Roethlisberger is far from pedestrian ... while I agree(and initially stated) that the defense was a big part of the Steelers success; Ben Roethlisberger is a good-to-very good QB (especially in clutch situations).

Eli Manning is the only average(not sub par) QB of the group(which I also stated).

Did you see the way Ben played in any of the Super Bowls? Was he good in his first Super Bowl Win? Defense won that Super Bowl.

Ben was worse than Kerry Collins on his worst day in that game.

[SilentHill]

I was thinking about this the other day. Heck, Collins took the Giants to the Super Bowl and ran into a great Ravens D.

I'm starting to think that Manning has made Polian look better than he is. Why does this team look so bad without Manning?

Because when you dump that much salary into one player you are bound to have to cut corners. Manning makes the players around him better than they really are. Any WR that can follow instructions and catch the ball is an automatic weapon in the colts offense.

I am so sick and tired about hearing people say how the colts are full of pro-bowlers. Well this year hopefully everyone realizes that this is the Manning show. Something I've known all along.

[ColtsLover4ever]

no really. not everyone. many people would agree with me.

You are wrong, get over it.

[rizon]

Well, I'm going to jump in here and add my two cents to the conversation. While having an elite QB is optional, if you have that average QB, you need better players around him. Those teams that won with average or sub-average QBs, had better overall team skill.

[number28]

I am so sick and tired about hearing people say how the colts are full of pro-bowlers. Well this year hopefully everyone realizes that this is the Manning show. Something I've known all along.

Sanders won Defensive player of the year because of Manning?

Freeney and Mathis are the best DE's in the game, because of Manning?

Well, I'm going to jump in here and add my two cents to the conversation. While having an elite QB is optional, if you have that average QB, you need better players around him. Those teams that won with average or sub-average QBs, had better overall team skill.

That was the whole point of this thread.

[Jason_]

Sanders won Defensive player of the year because of Manning?

Freeney and Mathis are the best DE's in the game, because of Manning?

That was the whole point of this thread.

Freeney and Mathis are not the best DE's in the game. They're among the best pass rushers but they both usually prove to be a liability against the run. The best DE's in the league would be able to do both.

Also, one could argue that Manning's play and ability to score puts the opponent in more passing situations than they otherwise would be and that gives Freeney and Mathis more opportunities to do what they do best...rush the passer.

[manningstheman]

ofcourse qbs win superbowls. but they are not they only ones that make a team superbowl contenders. an average qb that can put up some good points and a defense that can stop the other team can win too. but u have to score more points then the other team to win. i am not sure what else to say here.

[OJl]

Are QB's really the main reason for success? All I hear is people talking about them and complaining about them. Not just Colts fans, but everyone. Most of the conversations are based on QB's. If you look at NFL history, it is clearly a team sport and defense is more important than a QB.

Now there are ton of teams that win and won with sub par QB's. Here is an example of Super Bowl winners. Just imagine how many teams made it into the playoffs with sub par QB's.

Doug Williams

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Trent Dilfer

Brad Johnson

I can put a few others on this list, but they are a little bit better than sub-par.

The point is just by looking at Super Bowl winners, there are hundreds of other sup-par QB's that went into the playoffs.

Stop dissing Collins, stop whining and moaning, stop crying. Blame the team effort. Collins didn't singlehandedly lose those games.

The Defense was atrocious in both games. Special teams even worse. We couldn't run the ball at Hou. Our DB's stink. Coaching hasn't been good either.

QB's don't win games.

This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen on here. It's not THE stupidest. But it's up there.

All those sub par QBs you list played pretty danged well when it mattered. Yes, if all other parts of your team are solid, you don't need a Hall of Fame QB to win a title. But to say that any scrub can step in under center and win a Super Bowl is just foolish.

If you want to apply your asinine theory to the Colts, the Colts are lacking in lots of areas. The secondary is weak and the run defense was weak (until last night). Throw in the fact that special teams sucks and Caldwell is still asleep at the wheel, we need a good quarterback, not just some random scrub.

Kerry Collins is horrible! Period. He was brought in to ease the pain of losing Manning but so far, he has been the main problem on offense. The offensive line has actually played better this year than last year. They are run blocking better. They are giving the QB about the same amount of time (actually a little more). Yes that is a fact! Someone took the time to time each passing play and this year the line is giving the QB a little bit more time to throw versus last year. This story ran in the Indystar. The receivers are all healthy except for Gonzo. The problem is Collins is holding the ball too long and he still doesn't look comfortable making the quick decisions that Manning could.

If Peyton had played last night or against Cleveland had just been average by his standards, the Colts would have won.

[colts89]

so apparently Rothlisburger and Eli are sub-par qb's....., that's a bunch of rotten baloney right there and lost your argument straight up...

not great but good

good vs subpar = great difference

OP stop defending Collins

he S-U-C-K-E-D and yes he did lose us the game, he had a couple of oppurtunites for him to get td's after turnovers and he failed yet somehow the man everyone bags, Painter, almost leads us to victory

QB'S either win games like Manning has done on so many occasions it isn't funny, or they manage games (but this only works with a great defense that is consistent, which we don't have), Collins is neither,

[rich2351]

<img src='http://forums.colts.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/31hysterical.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='lol' />....in the case of Jeff Hostetler and Trent Dilfer.....Curtis Painter might have won the Super Bowl with the defenses those 2 had.

I largely agree with the premise of your post....but the Colts roster, built offensively around Peyton and the passing attack, as well as a defense built to protect a lead that HE provides...is simply NOT constituted to allow for his absence.

We gambled on this method of building the Colts roster, and for 13 years the gamble largely paid off.

The worst case scenario has happened and we're pretty screwed.

[rich2351]

You got it right on. This team was built around Manning, and it has worked brilliantly! But when you remove the heart from the body, the body doesn't function. You said it. We're screwed!

[bluebombers87]

This is just silly. In the past 20 years, 5 qbs have been sub par that won the SB. I know you said that you were talking about playoffs, but stay with me here.

How many good to elite QBs are there in the NFL right now? Not potentially good, but ones that have delivered the goods and played well consistantly. 6?

Point being that 12 teams make the playoffs. Leaving more or less 6 other teams with average QBs at the helm. Statistically speaking, its more likely that teams w/ average QBs get into the playoffs STATISTICALLY SPEAKING. With less than 1/4 of the QBs being good to elite, you have a greater chance STATISTICALLY SPEAKING of average QB teams making the playoffs which accounts for "hundreds" of average to sub par QBs making the playoffs.

So its a numbers game.

You might not need a good to elite QB to make the playoffs but as evidenced by IndyTravs post about the last 20 QBs to win the Superbowl (which you conveniantly ignored due to it being detrimental to your silly claim), you much more often than not need a good to elite QB to win the SB.