I JUST GOT INTO A FIGHT! HOW MANY TROPHIES DO WE HAVE?!

[Dustin]

Hey guys, can we just all agree that we hate the Patriots and end this?

[The Old Crow]

I am still waiting for you to show me where on Johnny U's plague that it says Indianapolis Colts?  This whole idea that the NFL has tried to erase the Baltimore Colts from the history books is made up. 

 

Honestly it keeps going back to the same issue you guys want to be the victim and have people feel bad for you.  Well there was a time that people felt bad for you even people in Indianapolis felt bad for the people in Baltimore.  Then you got a new team a wonderful new team and people went well Baltimore got exactly what they said they wanted, which at the time was we just want pro-football back in Baltimore.  Now that's not good enough for you.  Now it's we want the team name, colors, ad history back.  If you were to get that I am betting the next line would be oh Indianapolis took football away from Baltimore for 12 years.  At some point people just stop feeling bad for you and when you have a team that has won two Super Bowls for your city you are at that point. 

 

Honestly, you came here complaining trying to take ownership of something you don't own which is the Colts team history.  Sorry it's been proven in courts that you don't own the team history.  Case in point the legal action that happened after the move.  The first attempt was Baltimore sued to try to have the Colts returned to Indianapolis and promptly had the case thrown out.  Then they tried to get the US Congress to pass laws that would return them to Baltimore and they were defeated.  So they tried the courts again this time just wanting the team, colors, and history returned to Indianapolis.  Bob Irsay tired of spending money on lawyers to fight lawsuits reached a settlement with the city of Baltimore over the move.  The terms of that settlement was that the Colts history, name, and colors would stay with the Colts franchise in Indianapolis and that Baltimore would get the Super Bowl V trophy and the Indianapolis Colts would endorse a new franchise in Baltimore.  The last part was important because the way the NFL works is that owners have rights to certain markets when they own a franchise.  Even after the move Bob Irsay still had the rights to the Baltimore market and in fact used those rights to block a USFL team from playing there the year following the Colts move.  I will freely admit it was a total jerk move on Bob Irsay's part and re-enforces what even Indianapolis fans have said about Bob Irsay the man is the jerk.  It's one thing I think all Colts fans of any generation can agree on.  So by agreeing to endorse a new team in Baltimore Bob Irsay was more or less agreeing to not block a pro-team playing in Baltimore again.  So Baltimore took the deal.  Meaning it was a settled case at that point.  That's key because the whole idea of a settlement is that both sides agree to end legal action at that point and you can't back later and go you know what now we want more. 

 

From that point forward the Colts franchise has frankly been very accommodating of the Baltimore franchise that turned out to be the Ravens.  Jim Irsay kept his word and endorsed the move of the Browns to Baltimore and at the time gave a very public interview in Indianapolis where he said he was happy Baltimore was getting a team again and talked glowingly about the people in Baltimore and how they deserved to have football again and how Baltimore was a great town.  On top of that, the city of Indianapolis has displayed NO banners dating back to the days in Baltimore.  They do not honor the Hall of Famers of the Baltimore Colts or Ring of Honor Colts, or retired numbers in any official way at the stadium.  They only place they exist is in the Colts record books and whenever they are refereed it is almost refereed with the fact they played in Baltimore before it.  From there Indianapolis nor Jim Irsay have ever stood in the way of Baltimore doing anything to honor the old Colts in Baltimore short of Baltimore violating the Colts copy right on the team name and colors.  Beyond that no one has ever tried to stop Baltimore from having ex Colts in their Ring of Honor, having a statue of a guy with the Colts horse shoe on the side of his head in front of the stadium, having the Colts Marching band preform before they reformed into the Marching Ravens (which was their own choice), or anything else the city of Baltimore has wanted to do to honor their past history.  In fact people in Indianapolis encourage people in Baltimore to do so because they know what happened in their city means something to them.  Heck the Colts don't even go out of their way to recognize former Baltimore Colts players unless they approach the team first like Raymond Berry did.  So short of just letting Baltimore have their team history I think the Colts have done EVERYTHING in their power to let Baltimore celebrate whatever they would like to celebrate. 

 

Now it's up to the people in Baltimore to recognize they don't own this history and they aren't the only ones who have the exclusive rights to be proud of it.  No one is stopping them from celebrating it on their end.  No one is trying to pretend like the Baltimore Colts never existed and no one tries to pass off what happened in Baltimore like it happened in Indianapolis. 

 

With that said Colts fans do recognize the whole franchise history and that includes the move.  Just like Colts fans would have loved it Peyton Manning played his whole career in Indianapolis he didn't, so Colts fans have to share him with Broncos fans.  Guess what you have to share the Colts with Indianapolis and just like how Peyton Manning's career stats will reflect what he did in both Indianapolis and Denver the Colts official team history is going to reflect what happened in both Indianapolis and Baltimore.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing the two eras which frankly people do just like people are going to look at Peyton's career in Indy and his career in Denver at times but when you talk about his career numbers it's going to reflect both cities. 

 

With that said I'll freely admit Super Bowl XLI means more to me than Super V means to me just because I lived threw Super Bowl XLI and I went to see that team in person.  I always looked at Super Bowl V as well it's cool the Colts won that one I would just like to experience one in my life time.  I think that's true of any fan that compares a Super Bowl win in person vs. a Super Bowl they didn't see.  Again, back to my Packers example I would be willing to bet if someone lived threw the last Super Bowl win but not the first three that the last one holds a special place in their heart more so than the first three just because they didn't get to experience them.  I take great pride in what the Colts have accomplished as a franchise but I am more than willing to admit it didn't all happen in Indianapolis and just because I take pride in it doesn't mean I try to pretend like it all happened in my city.  You are talking to someone who had to do a book report when he was little on his hero and did it on Johnny U because he was a Colt.  Again, that just speaks to the point you don't have to live in a city of a team to be a fan of it.  So I am sorry I don't think you have the right to come in and tell people in Indianapolis just because they aren't from Baltimore they don't have a right to celebrate the whole Colts history.  A lot of people have taken the time to learn the Baltimore history of the team and it does mean something to us.  With that said it has also made us understand why it means something to Baltimore which is why most people in Indianapolis have zero issue with the city of Baltimore celebrating the old Baltimore Colts. 

 

 

A well written piece. I do understand the busts have Baltimore Colts on them. What most Baltimore Colt fans don't like is the old Colts under the Indianapolis team section. They would prefer a seperate section next to the Ravens, or the Indy Colts. It is not so much victimization, but a feeling of disenfranchisement.

 

I think most agree Bob Irsay was a goof. On top of the things you said, he did not vote for an expansion team for Baltimore. Had he done the right thing, perhaps the whole Cleveland mess would have never happened. Yes, he did stink as an owner in Indy also from 1984-1997, with the exception of a few years, like in Baltimore from 1975-1977.

 

What I don't get is why you want a bunch of records that have been broken, you don't hang the banners, and don't have a Ring of Honor. I understand you're, shall we call you, a pure Colts fan, who would like the Colts wherever they are. That's fine , but why not just let the Baltimore history be in Baltimore, and the Indy history be in Indy. If you liked both eras, great.

 

I guess we're different. I could care less about what happened with the St. Louis Browns back in 1944, and don't want any part of this as Baltimore Orioles history. I can't even relate to it, or celebrate something I wasn't part of, and don't really understand. I can only imagine going up the a Yankees fan and saying, how about that Brown's AL Pennant in 1944. He'd look at me as if I had two heads. It should be expunged from Baltimore history books and lay defunct in St. Louis. As far as I'm concerned , the Orioles first Pennant was in 1966.

 

Maybe when some of us old timers die, who in Indy will remember the Baltimore days, any more than an Orioles fan celebrating the days of the St. Louis Browns ? In Baltimore , however, it will never die, as you have the Unitas staue, the Ring of Honor, and a wing of a museum dedicated to the Baltimore Colts, plus the Super Bowl 5 trophy. The Raven's lore and history will continue to grow, but the old Colts in Baltimore will never die, and the history will be passed from generation to generation. Indy's history will also continue to grow, but as the older generation passes away, my prediction is the Baltimore days will be completely alien to young Hoosiers.

 

If anyone wants to celebrate Colts history, knock yourself out, but I think in the long run, the history and heritage always reverts back to where is started. I'm not sure any owner can own " History." History is what it is, and takes place where it occurs. This is self-evident.

[The Old Crow]

Hey guys, can we just all agree that we hate the Patriots and end this?

 

 

That truth is universal, and we were happy to take care of Cry-Brady and Belichick for you in the AFC Championship game !

[NewEra]

Yeah you're right. Our Colts USED to be the Baltimore Colts. They moved and now are the Indy Colts. Same team, different home. And those are the facts. Try to twist it, turn it however you want. The Colts are the same, and always will be the same Colts.

[The Old Crow]

You know how entitled that makes you sound? You are or more less saying Baltimore fans are better fans than other teams and love our teams more than other towns.  Trust me it's not the case.  Frankly if anyone has dibs on that title it's Green Bay.  With that said just because Baltimore loved their Colts doesn't mean they own the Colts history.  You don't.  As much as you might want too you don't.  While you have every right to celebrate what you witnessed you don't own the rights to it and have the right to say who else can and can not celebrate that history. 

 

 

It's not about entitlement, but I was trying to express what a special time this was in Baltimore. Unlike today, these guys were not only our players, but our friends. They lived in Baltimore, owned restaurants and liquor stores, and were very accessible to the public. As we know, it's all different now. Grren Bay does have a great football history, and as the city owns the team, it is the model franchise for me. For every city where you have a Jim Irsay or Steve Biscotti, you could also have a Bob Irsay or Bill Bidwell. It's a much better model that prevents franchise shifting, is fair to all, and allows for an expansion process.

[The Old Crow]

Yeah you're right. Our Colts USED to be the Baltimore Colts. They moved and now are the Indy Colts. Same team, different home. And those are the facts. Try to twist it, turn it however you want. The Colts are the same, and always will be the same Colts.

 

 

How can it be the same team ? Different Ring of Honors, lack of one Super Bowl trophy that rests in another city, Championships won under a different owner, etc. The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indianapolis Colts. You can't be the exact same, when you have histories from different cities. I dare you to ask the question that started this thread to NFL fans outside of Indy, and not including Baltimore. I would dare to say 85-90% would say you have one Championship in 2006. The New England fan just won't give you credit for Super Bowl 5. If you guys want to celebrate Super Bowl 5 and enjoy it, that's great, but you know I'm right about outside NFL perceptions. Come on down to Baltimore, have a crabcake and a Natty Boh, enjoy the museum with the Super Bowl 5 trophy, and claim it for Indy, if you want. I'm just telling you what the rank and file NFL fan thinks.

[NewEra]

It's not about entitlement, but I was trying to express what a special time this was in Baltimore. Unlike today, these guys were not only our players, but our friends. They lived in Baltimore, owned restaurants and liquor stores, and were very accessible to the public. As we know, it's all different now. Grren Bay does have a great football history, and as the city owns the team, it is the model franchise for me. For every city where you have a Jim Irsay or Steve Biscotti, you could also have a Bob Irsay or Bill Bidwell. It's a much better model that prevents franchise shifting, is fair to all, and allows for an expansion process.

No offense. The whole day and age you're talking about is night and day compared to today. One, the media, television and social network is ridiculous. Two, the amount of money the players make now days is out of control foolish rich. And trust me that all makes a fricken huge difference. Back then they weren't filthy rich stars plastered all over the worlds tv, news, media. Was probably a lot easier to relate with the fans back then. And not to burst your bubble. Our Colts who live here we see out and about all the time. Own businesses, are apart of local churches and everything you just stated. Baltimore nor the players that played for the Colts didn't invent the wheel. I know you like to believe its the Mecca. But come on, get real...

[NewEra]

How can it be the same team ? Different Ring of Honors, lack of one Super Bowl trophy that rests in another city, Championships won under a different owner, etc. The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indianapolis Colts. You can't be the exact same, when you have histories from different cities. I dare you to ask the question that started this thread to NFL fans outside of Indy, and not including Baltimore. I would dare to say 85-90% would say you have one Championship in 2006. The New England fan just won't give you credit for Super Bowl 5. If you guys want to celebrate Super Bowl 5 and enjoy it, that's great, but you know I'm right about outside NFL perceptions. Come on down to Baltimore, have a crabcake and a Natty Boh, enjoy the museum with the Super Bowl 5 trophy, and claim it for Indy, if you want. I'm just telling you what the rank and file NFL fan thinks.

Well to be honest I can care less. You can have the history. We got your team, we got your colors, your logos and everything else! Ta ta!

[GoColts8818]

How can it be the same team ? Different Ring of Honors, lack of one Super Bowl trophy that rests in another city, Championships won under a different owner, etc. The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indianapolis Colts. You can't be the exact same, when you have histories from different cities. I dare you to ask the question that started this thread to NFL fans outside of Indy, and not including Baltimore. I would dare to say 85-90% would say you have one Championship in 2006. The New England fan just won't give you credit for Super Bowl 5. If you guys want to celebrate Super Bowl 5 and enjoy it, that's great, but you know I'm right about outside NFL perceptions. Come on down to Baltimore, have a crabcake and a Natty Boh, enjoy the museum with the Super Bowl 5 trophy, and claim it for Indy, if you want. I'm just telling you what the rank and file NFL fan thinks.

So now you speak for all other NFL fans?  You honestly think a Detroit Lions fan feels bad for you because you don't have the Colts and you "only" have the Ravens?  I'd guess they are going to say be glad you have a team that has won you two Super Bowls and had another team that won you a third plus some World Championships.  Again most of the rest of the world has moved on from the move except from Baltimore they seem to be the only ones who can't get over it and they like to pretend that everyone feels the way they do.  I got news for you they really don't. 

 

The Baltimore Colts and Indianapolis Colts the same franchise I think it's time you come to grips with this.  Everyone outside of Baltimore understands it's the same franchise just in a different city.  Honestly if you asked a guy like Ron Stark who played for both the Indianapolis Colts and the Baltimore Colts do you think he's going to tell you he played for two different franchises named the Colts or did he play for one team named the Colts that moved cities? 

 

Fans would say what Colts fans have said here, the Colts franchise has won two Super Bowls, one while they were in Baltimore and one while they were in Indianapolis.  So respect is paid to the Colts for winning one in Baltimore which is what you said you wanted at first. 

 

Honestly Baltimore fans just keep trying to change the argument for what they wanted.  It started out they just wanted pro-football again and then they got it.  Then it became well, I know we have football again but it's not the Colts so we want to team name, colors, and history.  If they got that then it would become well I know we got that but man Indianapolis still cost us pro-football for 12 years so give us something else for that.  People stopped feeling bad for Baltimore once they got exactly what they said they wanted at the start which was pro-football again. They really stopped feeling bad for you when the team you got turned out to be really good and started winning Super Bowls at a large number of their teams expense. 

[GoColts8818]

It's not about entitlement, but I was trying to express what a special time this was in Baltimore. Unlike today, these guys were not only our players, but our friends. They lived in Baltimore, owned restaurants and liquor stores, and were very accessible to the public. As we know, it's all different now. Grren Bay does have a great football history, and as the city owns the team, it is the model franchise for me. For every city where you have a Jim Irsay or Steve Biscotti, you could also have a Bob Irsay or Bill Bidwell. It's a much better model that prevents franchise shifting, is fair to all, and allows for an expansion process.

Yeah go tell someone about that in Green Bay and they will tell you the samething about the Packers players TODAY. 

 

That's how a lot of pro-Football players were in their towns during that time period.  Time has changed that and to try to compare today's world to any town back then is a bit far fetched.  Even so the Colts have players who have mad those kinds of connections in Indianapolis.  Peyton Manning has a Hospital named after him in Indianapolis.  Pat McAfee might be the most touchable player in Colts history to the point he was driving around town last year giving away things out of a car he bought and then donated the car to charity.  Also look at how nearly the whole town of Indianapolis rallied around Pagano when he had cancer this past year and tell me Indianapolis doesn't have a special bond with the Colts too.  Every city loves their own in their own way.  Baltimore is no different in that regard and they are far from the only town to ever love the team and players. 

[GoColts8818]

A well written piece. I do understand the busts have Baltimore Colts on them. What most Baltimore Colt fans don't like is the old Colts under the Indianapolis team section. They would prefer a seperate section next to the Ravens, or the Indy Colts. It is not so much victimization, but a feeling of disenfranchisement.

There are no team sections for the Hall of Famers.  They put them in by the years they went in in part for reasons like this.  Also, not all the ex-Colts would prefer that they be listed as Ravens because they didn't play for the Ravens.  A guy like Raymond Berry made it very clear he played for the Colts and not the Ravens.  He's not the only one who feels that way too.  Just because the Baltimore fan base and some of the Ex-Colts want it doesn't mean it's going to happen.  What about a guy like Berry who wants to be associated with the Colts?  He should have to give that up just to make the Baltimore fans happy?  That's pretty selfish for a town that likes to talk about just how much they loved their beloved Colts and for a guy who was talking about how these guys were his friends.  Honestly the Hall of Fame has done it the best way IMO.  They put the guys in by years list all the teams they played for so guys don't have to pick a team like with the MLB, and they make it known what cities these guys played in.  The Colts aren't the only pro-football team that has moved and if you put the Baltimore Colts with the Ravens what about guys who played for the Cardinals?  They would have to go by the Rams and some of those guys are extremely proud of the fact they were Cardinals.  What about guys who went in with the LA Rams?  Do they just not get a spot since LA doesn't have a team anymore?  What about the Giants and Jets players in the Hall?  Since they played in New York using your logic then they should be listed with both teams even though Joe Namath never played for the Giants and a guy like LT never played for the Jets. 

I think most agree Bob Irsay was a goof. On top of the things you said, he did not vote for an expansion team for Baltimore. Had he done the right thing, perhaps the whole Cleveland mess would have never happened. Yes, he did stink as an owner in Indy also from 1984-1997, with the exception of a few years, like in Baltimore from 1975-1977.

Go back and read the settlement.  Irsay agreed to endorse a pro-team in Baltimore.  It doesn't say vote for an expansion team.  He was free to vote for which ever owner he thought would be the best team.  With that said two owners did not vote for the Jags team in 95, I believe Irsay was one of the two that did not.  Even if he wasn't his one vote clearly wouldn't have tipped the scale.  Again, the key part there was that really meant Irsay was giving up his rights to ownership of the Baltimore market so Baltimore could get another team there. 

What I don't get is why you want a bunch of records that have been broken, you don't hang the banners, and don't have a Ring of Honor. I understand you're, shall we call you, a pure Colts fan, who would like the Colts wherever they are. That's fine , but why not just let the Baltimore history be in Baltimore, and the Indy history be in Indy. If you liked both eras, great.

Again, it's not up to the people of Indianapolis.  Frankly if it was I am sure a large group of them would just say give it to them we don't care.  It's up to Jim Irsay he's the one who owns it.  Jim Irsay was apart of the Baltimore teams, even if it wasn't the championship teams and that history means a great deal to him and I don't think he's looking to part with it.  You would have to talk to him about why it means so much to him. 

 

Again, no one has ever said Baltimore can't celebrate it's history which would mean the Baltimore history is in Baltimore.  With that said the official team history is also with the Colts.  If you aren't happy with the way Baltimore elects to celebrate the Colts history in Baltimore I don't think the person you need to talk to is Jim Irsay since the only thing he's ever blocked you from doing is trying to use his trade mark and has let countless celebrations of the Baltimore history go on in Baltimore.  I think the person you need to talk about that is your owner now.  He's the one who has say in what the Ravens do to celebrate the old Colts and what banners go up in the stadium. 

I guess we're different. I could care less about what happened with the St. Louis Browns back in 1944, and don't want any part of this as Baltimore Orioles history. I can't even relate to it, or celebrate something I wasn't part of, and don't really understand. I can only imagine going up the a Yankees fan and saying, how about that Brown's AL Pennant in 1944. He'd look at me as if I had two heads. It should be expunged from Baltimore history books and lay defunct in St. Louis. As far as I'm concerned , the Orioles first Pennant was in 1966.

I think the people who own the Orioles would tell you differently.  Again, you look at things a pure Baltimore sports fan, not someone who has been apart of those organizations.  That history means a little more when your family has direct ties to it either in owning it or having a player who played for it.  Again, Irsay gets that which is why is he really lets the Ravens do whatever they want short of using his trademark to celebrate the old Colts.  He could be a real jerk about it and probably go to the league office or use the court's system to say I own the Colts history and the Ravens are using it to help make a profit by drawing older fans to their games and I want it to stop.  He doesn't because he knows that would just be the real wrong thing to do.  Frankly if his dad was still around and not him I could easily see Bob Irsay doing just that or demanding the Ravens give them a cut of their profit form it. 

Maybe when some of us old timers die, who in Indy will remember the Baltimore days, any more than an Orioles fan celebrating the days of the St. Louis Browns ? In Baltimore , however, it will never die, as you have the Unitas staue, the Ring of Honor, and a wing of a museum dedicated to the Baltimore Colts, plus the Super Bowl 5 trophy. The Raven's lore and history will continue to grow, but the old Colts in Baltimore will never die, and the history will be passed from generation to generation. Indy's history will also continue to grow, but as the older generation passes away, my prediction is the Baltimore days will be completely alien to young Hoosiers.

and people in Indianapolis really don't care.  Again, like we have said from the start if you want to celebrate your old Baltimore history go for it.  No one in Indianapolis is stopping you or trying to tell you that you can't.  I also have news to you the old Baltimore Colts history is becoming more alien to young people in Baltimore too because all they have known is the Ravens.  Again, being a fan of something is very much about having a personal connection to something and frankly anyone 20 and under in Baltimore has that with the Ravens not the Colts.  I agree it will never completely go away but as more people grow up with the Baltimore Ravens and the Indianapolis Colts the loyalty to the Colts in Baltimore will fade. 

If anyone wants to celebrate Colts history, knock yourself out, but I think in the long run, the history and heritage always reverts back to where is started. I'm not sure any owner can own " History." History is what it is, and takes place where it occurs. This is self-evident.

Well the courts system and the official record books disagree with you.  They say the history belongs to Jim Irsay.  With that said, I don't think anyone is going to say just because Irsay may own it means the people in Baltimore didn't see it and don't have a right to celebrate what they saw.  In fact I think people are saying knock yourself out celebrate it all you want.  You just have no right to try to tell other Colts fans who might have become Colts fans after the move that they can't lay claim to the whole Colts history which is what you started out doing. 

[The Old Crow]

Well to be honest I can care less. You can have the history. We got your team, we got your colors, your logos and everything else! Ta ta!

 

That's all we want. You have the Indianapolis Colts, I agree with you. Enjoy the colors and logos !

[The Old Crow]

No offense. The whole day and age you're talking about is night and day compared to today. One, the media, television and social network is ridiculous. Two, the amount of money the players make now days is out of control foolish rich. And trust me that all makes a fricken huge difference. Back then they weren't filthy rich stars plastered all over the worlds tv, news, media. Was probably a lot easier to relate with the fans back then. And not to burst your bubble. Our Colts who live here we see out and about all the time. Own businesses, are apart of local churches and everything you just stated. Baltimore nor the players that played for the Colts didn't invent the wheel. I know you like to believe its the Mecca. But come on, get real...

 

 

I'm not saying we reinvented the wheel. I'm trying to make you understand why people still think this time was important. Kudos to the current Indy Colts that get out in the community. All of these guys should be doing community service.

[The Old Crow]

So now you speak for all other NFL fans?  You honestly think a Detroit Lions fan feels bad for you because you don't have the Colts and you "only" have the Ravens?  I'd guess they are going to say be glad you have a team that has won you two Super Bowls and had another team that won you a third plus some World Championships.  Again most of the rest of the world has moved on from the move except from Baltimore they seem to be the only ones who can't get over it and they like to pretend that everyone feels the way they do.  I got news for you they really don't. 

 

The Baltimore Colts and Indianapolis Colts the same franchise I think it's time you come to grips with this.  Everyone outside of Baltimore understands it's the same franchise just in a different city.  Honestly if you asked a guy like Ron Stark who played for both the Indianapolis Colts and the Baltimore Colts do you think he's going to tell you he played for two different franchises named the Colts or did he play for one team named the Colts that moved cities? 

 

Fans would say what Colts fans have said here, the Colts franchise has won two Super Bowls, one while they were in Baltimore and one while they were in Indianapolis.  So respect is paid to the Colts for winning one in Baltimore which is what you said you wanted at first. 

 

Honestly Baltimore fans just keep trying to change the argument for what they wanted.  It started out they just wanted pro-football again and then they got it.  Then it became well, I know we have football again but it's not the Colts so we want to team name, colors, and history.  If they got that then it would become well I know we got that but man Indianapolis still cost us pro-football for 12 years so give us something else for that.  People stopped feeling bad for Baltimore once they got exactly what they said they wanted at the start which was pro-football again. They really stopped feeling bad for you when the team you got turned out to be really good and started winning Super Bowls at a large number of their teams expense. 

 

Remember, it was an argument with another NFL fan that started this thread. Despite what you say, I think that is the perception of most NFL fans. Ron Stark was drafted at the very end of the Baltimore era, so I'm sure he has more affinity towards Indy.

 

Unfortunately, for Baltimore and Indy, we will always have to hear about Mayflower, or Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore. I'm sure someone will just say, ha-ha, we stole your team and too bad, but fair-minded observers , myself included, know that both city's set up stadium deals to obtain a team. I could honestly tell you that I can never be proud of how we got a team, and what we did to Cleveland. What Cleveland fans have to understand is this was a last resort to get a team, after Irsay and others, would not give us an expansion team, we had to wait twelve years, and Taglibue jerked us around because of Jack Kent Cooke, and protecting the Redskins. Probably for Indy, taking a team was probably the only way the NFL was coming there, so they has to do what they had to do. What it did though, is create alot of team history confusion, among other things. I don't think the Baltimore, Cleveland, or Oakland deals were the proudest moments in NFL history. All three cities were proven NFL towns who never should have lost their teams. Despite the propoganda that Baltimore didn't support the Colts, they in fact, had 103 straight sellouts before Irsay ran them into the ground. The Ravens have sold out every year since 1996. We know Cleveland and Oakland have great fans. Indy should have been first in the expansion market, as they have easily outsupported Phoenix, Jacksonville, and Charlotte.

 

I don't think people feel bad for Baltimore, but just have questions when they look at Super Bowl and NFL Championship history and it reads Baltimore Colts, than Baltimore Ravens later.  I think fair-minded people in Baltimore realize that the Colts have been well supported in Indy, have their own players, and own history. As I said with the St. Louis Browns/Orioles analogy, we just don't get Indy fans reallt caring that much about Baltimore Football history. Certainly, I understand the older fans that may have transferred, but I don't think the younger fans in Indy do. I know younger fans in Baltimore, are still doing term papers on Johnny Unitas.

[The Old Crow]

There are no team sections for the Hall of Famers.  They put them in by the years they went in in part for reasons like this.  Also, not all the ex-Colts would prefer that they be listed as Ravens because they didn't play for the Ravens.  A guy like Raymond Berry made it very clear he played for the Colts and not the Ravens.  He's not the only one who feels that way too.  Just because the Baltimore fan base and some of the Ex-Colts want it doesn't mean it's going to happen.  What about a guy like Berry who wants to be associated with the Colts?  He should have to give that up just to make the Baltimore fans happy?  That's pretty selfish for a town that likes to talk about just how much they loved their beloved Colts and for a guy who was talking about how these guys were his friends.  Honestly the Hall of Fame has done it the best way IMO.  They put the guys in by years list all the teams they played for so guys don't have to pick a team like with the MLB, and they make it known what cities these guys played in.  The Colts aren't the only pro-football team that has moved and if you put the Baltimore Colts with the Ravens what about guys who played for the Cardinals?  They would have to go by the Rams and some of those guys are extremely proud of the fact they were Cardinals.  What about guys who went in with the LA Rams?  Do they just not get a spot since LA doesn't have a team anymore?  What about the Giants and Jets players in the Hall?  Since they played in New York using your logic then they should be listed with both teams even though Joe Namath never played for the Giants and a guy like LT never played for the Jets. 

Go back and read the settlement.  Irsay agreed to endorse a pro-team in Baltimore.  It doesn't say vote for an expansion team.  He was free to vote for which ever owner he thought would be the best team.  With that said two owners did not vote for the Jags team in 95, I believe Irsay was one of the two that did not.  Even if he wasn't his one vote clearly wouldn't have tipped the scale.  Again, the key part there was that really meant Irsay was giving up his rights to ownership of the Baltimore market so Baltimore could get another team there. 

Again, it's not up to the people of Indianapolis.  Frankly if it was I am sure a large group of them would just say give it to them we don't care.  It's up to Jim Irsay he's the one who owns it.  Jim Irsay was apart of the Baltimore teams, even if it wasn't the championship teams and that history means a great deal to him and I don't think he's looking to part with it.  You would have to talk to him about why it means so much to him. 

 

Again, no one has ever said Baltimore can't celebrate it's history which would mean the Baltimore history is in Baltimore.  With that said the official team history is also with the Colts.  If you aren't happy with the way Baltimore elects to celebrate the Colts history in Baltimore I don't think the person you need to talk to is Jim Irsay since the only thing he's ever blocked you from doing is trying to use his trade mark and has let countless celebrations of the Baltimore history go on in Baltimore.  I think the person you need to talk about that is your owner now.  He's the one who has say in what the Ravens do to celebrate the old Colts and what banners go up in the stadium. 

I think the people who own the Orioles would tell you differently.  Again, you look at things a pure Baltimore sports fan, not someone who has been apart of those organizations.  That history means a little more when your family has direct ties to it either in owning it or having a player who played for it.  Again, Irsay gets that which is why is he really lets the Ravens do whatever they want short of using his trademark to celebrate the old Colts.  He could be a real jerk about it and probably go to the league office or use the court's system to say I own the Colts history and the Ravens are using it to help make a profit by drawing older fans to their games and I want it to stop.  He doesn't because he knows that would just be the real wrong thing to do.  Frankly if his dad was still around and not him I could easily see Bob Irsay doing just that or demanding the Ravens give them a cut of their profit form it. 

and people in Indianapolis really don't care.  Again, like we have said from the start if you want to celebrate your old Baltimore history go for it.  No one in Indianapolis is stopping you or trying to tell you that you can't.  I also have news to you the old Baltimore Colts history is becoming more alien to young people in Baltimore too because all they have known is the Ravens.  Again, being a fan of something is very much about having a personal connection to something and frankly anyone 20 and under in Baltimore has that with the Ravens not the Colts.  I agree it will never completely go away but as more people grow up with the Baltimore Ravens and the Indianapolis Colts the loyalty to the Colts in Baltimore will fade. 

Well the courts system and the official record books disagree with you.  They say the history belongs to Jim Irsay.  With that said, I don't think anyone is going to say just because Irsay may own it means the people in Baltimore didn't see it and don't have a right to celebrate what they saw.  In fact I think people are saying knock yourself out celebrate it all you want.  You just have no right to try to tell other Colts fans who might have become Colts fans after the move that they can't lay claim to the whole Colts history which is what you started out doing. 

 

 

Trust me, I'd love to have a chat with Jim Irsay about all of this. The problem is, I don't even understand his tweets, which seem to be in some code I don't understand. I'm not sure about the change in attitude from Raymond Berry. If he wants to be under Indy, god bless him. I think the ideal situation is a seperate Baltimore Colts section at the Hall of fame, next to Indy. I think other than Raymond Berry ,Don Shula, and some of the 1970's Colts, I'm not sure many ex-Baltimore Colts have made many appearances in Indianapolis. I think that when Irsay said he would endorse a pro-football team for Baltimore, and then voted against an expansion team there, I think most fair-minded people believe this broke a promise, despite the spin and semantics. It was perceived as another slap in the face of Baltimore by the Irsay family.

 

I'm pretty sure there is something that prevents the Ravens from hanging the old Colt Championship banners in Baltimore, but I'm not sure what it is. I'll have to check on that one. I personally, would love to see them up there, and would like to see even more old Colt events at M & T Bank Stadium, commemorating all the old Championship teams. We've had many before, but you can never have enough.

 

There are indeed some young, foolish Raven fans that don't care about their old NFL history. These are some of the same blockheads that wouldn't be interested in WW2 history, or other things. Most do, however. I know my son, who is 14, is always asking questions about the old Baltimore Colts, and is very knowledgable about Baltimore Football History. I think that is the majority of young fans in Baltimore, who are always reminded of this when they are entering the stadium, and rub the Johnny Unitas statue hightop, for luck. Many of these Raven's fan are party fans, and bandwagoneers, who don't even realize that the 2000 Ravens Champions are 13 years in the rear view mirror. That time should be celebrated and never forgotten in Baltimore history. Do you think people in Baltimore have forgotten the 1966, 1970, and 1983 Baltimore Orioles. No way, they are celebrated like the old Colt and Ravens's teams. The difference with the Colts history is that the NFL, Irsay, and Hall of Fame, say this history is not Baltimore's anymore. They are told one man, Jim Irsay owns this history, because his dad swapped out the Rams for the Colts in 1972. Yes, he bought a team, but we are told this history no longer meshes with Baltimore. We understand the franchise argument, and the settlement stuff, but any community that went through this would feel the exact same, including if it happened in Indy, I guarantee it.

[NewEra]

That's all we want. You have the Indianapolis Colts, I agree with you. Enjoy the colors and logos !

Can't wait till you hit the retirement home and they revoke your Internet access. And even when that happens we will still have our colors, our logos and oh yeah our history. Dating back to the Miami Seahawks.

[NewEra]

Whether you like it or not. All the Baltimore Colts history is both the current Colts and city of Baltimore to share. You can't have one without the other. Baltimore has it because that is where the team was located at the time. And the Colts will always have it cause they are still the Colts. Period... Twist it, change it to how ever you see fit. If it was me and you in that bar I would have already kicked your walker out from under you and beat you with it.

[The Old Crow]

Whether you like it or not. All the Baltimore Colts history is both the current Colts and city of Baltimore to share. You can't have one without the other. Baltimore has it because that is where the team was located at the time. And the Colts will always have it cause they are still the Colts. Period... Twist it, change it to how ever you see fit. If it was me and you in that bar I would have already kicked your walker out from under you and beat you with it.

 

 

 

Can't wait till you hit the retirement home and they revoke your Internet access. And even when that happens we will still have our colors, our logos and oh yeah our history. Dating back to the Miami Seahawks.

 

 

I'm sure you would like that. Not to worry, I'm in great health and a long way from a retirement home ! I'm not that old. You can make any claim you'd like, but I'm just telling you how the majority of NFL fans feel.  

[The Old Crow]

Whether you like it or not. All the Baltimore Colts history is both the current Colts and city of Baltimore to share. You can't have one without the other. Baltimore has it because that is where the team was located at the time. And the Colts will always have it cause they are still the Colts. Period... Twist it, change it to how ever you see fit. If it was me and you in that bar I would have already kicked your walker out from under you and beat you with it.

 

 

That is one way to look at it. As for the bar deal , I'm shakin' in my boots ! Maybe I'll run over you in my hover-round ! LOL

[Fx Stryker]

Can't wait till you hit the retirement home and they revoke your Internet access. And even when that happens we will still have our colors, our logos and oh yeah our history. Dating back to the Miami Seahawks.

 

The Seahawks is not our history just saying. The city of Baltimore liked the name Colts so they just used the name of their old team for their new team because Baltimore Texans just doesn't roll off your tongue.. That team doesn't have anything to do with the current franchise.

[BIGugly]

a rose is a rose is a rose

 

the Colts are the Colts are the Colts

 

a rogue by any other name is still a rogue 

 

the Colts by any other name are still the Colts 

 

a rose by any other name would smell as sweet

 

the colts by any other name are still two time SB Champions

[NewEra]

The Seahawks is not our history just saying. The city of Baltimore liked the name Colts so they just used the name of their old team for their new team because Baltimore Texans just doesn't roll off your tongue.. That team doesn't have anything to do with the current franchise.

Oh my mistake! I thought a few pages ago it said they were from Miami.

[NewEra]

That is one way to look at it. As for the bar deal , I'm shakin' in my boots ! Maybe I'll run over you in my hover-round ! LOL

Roflmao!! Good one!

[The Old Crow]

The Seahawks is not our history just saying. The city of Baltimore liked the name Colts so they just used the name of their old team for their new team because Baltimore Texans just doesn't roll off your tongue.. That team doesn't have anything to do with the current franchise.

 

 

My view is I don't see the Miami Seahawks or Dallas Texans as part of Baltimore Colts history, same as the St. Louis Browns with the Orioles.

[The Old Crow]

a rose is a rose is a rose

 

the Colts are the Colts are the Colts

 

a rogue by any other name is still a rogue 

 

the Colts by any other name are still the Colts 

 

a rose by any other name would smell as sweet

 

the colts by any other name are still two time SB Champions

 

 

A very nice poem.  Here's another one:

 

 

Hickory Dickery Dock

 

Bob Irsay pulled off a shock

 

He used all of his power

 

And called on Mayflower

 

His taking the Colts out of Baltimore was a crock !

 

 

Oh well, I think I'll stick to sales, because my poetry stinks. LOL

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I'm sure you would like that. Not to worry, I'm in great health and a long way from a retirement home ! I'm not that old. You can make any claim you'd like, but I'm just telling you how the majority of NFL fans feel.  

 

1 is not a majority we all have our opinions .   I get it .

:GoodBad:  How about this I'v heard from a few fans over the years , Some have felt your way but never any kind of majority  some current Raven fans or current Colts fans even fans from other teams say they liked it better when the Colts were in Baltimore but understand the business side of the NFL is like all sports stuff happens & people are disappointed , For instance I believed Jim Irsay when he said were gonna hire Tong Dungy he'll fix the defense that never happened  or that he wanted to keep Peyton Manning & draft Andrew Luck, It sounded good .

Then reality set in but it was a good thought   , I'm positive there was hurt feelings when Bob Irsay  let Johnny Unitas  go- Like #18 . The face of the franchise suddenly gone & those players that we have grown to know thru there play on the field as well as there commitment to there cities & fans is gone it leaves a hole granted we have not lost our team  but there have been changes not all liked at first but its working out pretty good  .

We have a team in each city the Indianapolis Colts & Baltimore Ravens  both are successful not all cities with teams can say this & there are a lot of cities that can only wish they had a team . Consider this Los Angeles my home town is still waiting for a team a city with only a history of losing there NFL teams. Those that have the NFL in there cities are a select few . The past holds great memories for all Colts fans celebrate the history of your choice . We have banners & a Lombardi to look at if we choose .

 

I personally would love to hear some old Colts stories, or why Bob Irsay fired his head coach at halftime only to have Jim Irsay hire him back so the game could continue this was a story related to me by a old Colts fan , I believe the coach was Ted Marchibroda ?

 

What 'll ya say Crow buddy ? As a teen in the 70's I really liked it in L.A the partying was 24-7. I wish I had a Way Back Machine I got some places I'd like to visit  Eaton Canyon - Victorville & L.A Memorial Coliseum holds some pretty good memories , But at the end of the day here we are , if we look back we'll see a lot of good memories . Enjoy them . Go Colts

[Fx Stryker]

Oh my mistake! I thought a few pages ago it said they were from Miami.

 

Well yea, it's a tricky story really. Technically the Colts have no lineage before 1953, but the team was sold and went under many times before then. Name comes from the AAFC Colts, but the colors and left over players come from the Texans, and they came from another team. So on and so forth.

 

 

 

My view is I don't see the Miami Seahawks or Dallas Texans as part of Baltimore Colts history, same as the St. Louis Browns with the Orioles.

 

Yea that is your view, but the technicality is they are because Art played for the Yanks/Texans/Colts but never was traded or signed by each other three. Only by the Yanks, and he moved with the team.

[tahuyaman]

I refuse to glorify senseless violence so I will spare you the details. Let's just say I strongly voiced my opinion through unconventional means to a fellow patron that the colts have two trophies, superbowl 5 and the superbowl we won with Peyton Manning. Long story short, am I wrong?

 

I make it a point to not get my undies in a twist or into a physical altercation over semantics or other trivial matters.  So, I would say you erred.

[The Old Crow]

1 is not a majority we all have our opinions .   I get it .

:GoodBad:  How about this I'v heard from a few fans over the years , Some have felt your way but never any kind of majority  some current Raven fans or current Colts fans even fans from other teams say they liked it better when the Colts were in Baltimore but understand the business side of the NFL is like all sports stuff happens & people are disappointed , For instance I believed Jim Irsay when he said were gonna hire Tong Dungy he'll fix the defense that never happened  or that he wanted to keep Peyton Manning & draft Andrew Luck, It sounded good .

Then reality set in but it was a good thought   , I'm positive there was hurt feelings when Bob Irsay  let Johnny Unitas  go- Like #18 . The face of the franchise suddenly gone & those players that we have grown to know thru there play on the field as well as there commitment to there cities & fans is gone it leaves a hole granted we have not lost our team  but there have been changes not all liked at first but its working out pretty good  .

We have a team in each city the Indianapolis Colts & Baltimore Ravens  both are successful not all cities with teams can say this & there are a lot of cities that can only wish they had a team . Consider this Los Angeles my home town is still waiting for a team a city with only a history of losing there NFL teams. Those that have the NFL in there cities are a select few . The past holds great memories for all Colts fans celebrate the history of your choice . We have banners & a Lombardi to look at if we choose .

 

I personally would love to hear some old Colts stories, or why Bob Irsay fired his head coach at halftime only to have Jim Irsay hire him back so the game could continue this was a story related to me by a old Colts fan , I believe the coach was Ted Marchibroda ?

 

What 'll ya say Crow buddy ? As a teen in the 70's I really liked it in L.A the partying was 24-7. I wish I had a Way Back Machine I got some places I'd like to visit  Eaton Canyon - Victorville & L.A Memorial Coliseum holds some pretty good memories , But at the end of the day here we are , if we look back we'll see a lot of good memories . Enjoy them . Go Colts

 

I remember the LA Rams very well with the Fearsome Foursome, George Allen, and Roman Gabriel. How LA does not have a current team, I will never understand. They have been long overdue for a team. It is a perfect city for an NFL expansion team, and has been an important city in NFL history. It is a shame this stuff happens, because it ruins the purity of sports. If you go back to 1972, Irsay could not get into the NFL. Carroll Rosenbloom was trying to get out of taxes, so he engineered Irsay getting in as owner of the Rams, and then the deal was Rosenbloom would swap with Irsay for the Baltimore Colts. It ended up being a disaster for both cities, as Irsay moved the Colts, and Frontiere, Rosenbloom's widow, moved the Rams to St. Louis. You could call this the deadly swap. You are right though, through the prism of time, you can't take away the good memories !

[The Old Crow]

Well yea, it's a tricky story really. Technically the Colts have no lineage before 1953, but the team was sold and went under many times before then. Name comes from the AAFC Colts, but the colors and left over players come from the Texans, and they came from another team. So on and so forth.

 

 

 

 

Yea that is your view, but the technicality is they are because Art played for the Yanks/Texans/Colts but never was traded or signed by each other three. Only by the Yanks, and he moved with the team.

 

Here is an excerpt from past Colts history : The NFL considers the Texans and Colts to be seperate teams, although many of those teams shared the same colors of blue and white. " Here we have a concrete example where a team moved from Dallas to Baltimore, yet they are considered seperateteams/ franchises by the NFL. That is basically what Baltimore wants. They want the Hall of Famers under a seperate Baltimore Colts section. I think even Raymond Berry would be fine with that.

 

The NFL should consider this, because of the Baltimore Colts "exceptional" contributions to the history and popularity of the current NFL. No one is inpuning Indy's current history, but franchise's that have moved can be considered seperate by the NFL. The precedent is clearly there.

[hawkeyes]

How can the Ravens be the Browns , when there is a Cleveland Browns team ? The Baltimore Colts are different than the Indy Colts.

I already explained that to you ...what are you 13?

[Fx Stryker]

Here is an excerpt from past Colts history : The NFL considers the Texans and Colts to be seperate teams, although many of those teams shared the same colors of blue and white. " Here we have a concrete example where a team moved from Dallas to Baltimore, yet they are considered seperateteams/ franchises by the NFL. That is basically what Baltimore wants. They want the Hall of Famers under a seperate Baltimore Colts section. I think even Raymond Berry would be fine with that.

 

The NFL should consider this, because of the Baltimore Colts "exceptional" contributions to the history and popularity of the current NFL. No one is inpuning Indy's current history, but franchise's that have moved can be considered seperate by the NFL. The precedent is clearly there.

 

You're forgetting the one major difference though between the Dallas to Baltimore from the Baltimore to Indianapolis. The Dallas team folded, and no longer was able to financially able to support themselves. The owner sold his team back to the NFL in the middle of the season. Then the NFL sold it to Rosenbloom. Yes technically the Colts started in 1953, but they can be tied back to earlier teams.

 

While in 1984 the Colts didn't fold as a franchise they just moved. Not the same. The owner didn't sell his team to the NFL, then the NFL folded that franchise, and another person purchased it to start his team. The owner simply moved his team.

[coltsfan_nyc]

I make it a point to not get my undies in a twist or into a physical altercation over semantics or other trivial matters.  So, I would say you erred.

So if a fellow patron attempts to render me unconcious with his fist, I should have let him proceed without any attempt to preserve my own health?

[The Old Crow]

You're forgetting the one major difference though between the Dallas to Baltimore from the Baltimore to Indianapolis. The Dallas team folded, and no longer was able to financially able to support themselves. The owner sold his team back to the NFL in the middle of the season. Then the NFL sold it to Rosenbloom. Yes technically the Colts started in 1953, but they can be tied back to earlier teams.

 

While in 1984 the Colts didn't fold as a franchise they just moved. Not the same. The owner didn't sell his team to the NFL, then the NFL folded that franchise, and another person purchased it to start his team. The owner simply moved his team.

 

 

I think the thing to do is look back at history. The 1950 Baltimore Colts are considered by the NFL as a defunct franchise. I think it would be cleaner to declare the 1953-1983 Baltimore Colts defunct also, with a seperate history. Here is an excert from a Steeler fan from www.coltsheritage.com  

 

 

" I'm a huge Steelers fan and hate the Ravens, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous for a franchise to take a team's history when and if it chooses to leave a city. If the Penguins do it to Pittsburgh, I'll be furious. The history and the success of the Baltimore Colts belongs in Baltimore. "  Diane , Pittsburgh

 

Another one from ex-Colts safety Bruce Laird :

 

" Our problem as retired Baltimore Colts is that we have no heritage left and many retired Colts have made their homes in Baltimore and Maryland. We did not play in Indy and only want our history back. I ,for one, like Unitas , Berry, Moore, Marchetti, Donovan etc., have numerous records in the Indy press guide. I would like them to stand alone, just like the Indy players would like their records to stand alone. I wanted to see Peyton Manning win the Super Bowl. I player against his father Archie and think that the Manning family is indeed the first family of the NFL. "

 

 

A Steeler's fan, and an ex-Baltimore Colt player, with two views. The third comment that started this thread was an apparently inebriated Jets fan who was arguing over how many trophies Indy has, no doubt started by memories of Super Bowl 3. These views are out there, and more prevelent than you think.

[The Old Crow]

I already explained that to you ...what are you 13?

 

 

Wish I was !

[Fx Stryker]

I think the thing to do is look back at history. The 1950 Baltimore Colts are considered by the NFL as a defunct franchise. I think it would be cleaner to declare the 1953-1983 Baltimore Colts defunct also, with a seperate history.

 

Defunct teams are folded by the league. The 1953 Colts never were while the 1950 Colts were.

 

Listen I'll agree with you when you're right, but the facts are facts. Right now it's a matter of opinion for you, and what you are saying. I'd rather keep my opinion out of it.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Here is an excerpt from past Colts history : The NFL considers the Texans and Colts to be seperate teams, although many of those teams shared the same colors of blue and white. " Here we have a concrete example where a team moved from Dallas to Baltimore, yet they are considered seperateteams/ franchises by the NFL. That is basically what Baltimore wants. They want the Hall of Famers under a seperate Baltimore Colts section. I think even Raymond Berry would be fine with that.

 

The NFL should consider this, because of the Baltimore Colts "exceptional" contributions to the history and popularity of the current NFL. No one is inpuning Indy's current history, but franchise's that have moved can be considered seperate by the NFL. The precedent is clearly there.

 

The Baltimore Colts 1947- 1950

 

 

The Colts' origin is with the Miami Seahawks,

one of the charter franchises of the AAFC. After playing a single

disastrous season the Seahawks were confiscated by the league, and were

purchased and reorganized by a group of businessmen as the Baltimore

Colts. The new team struggled through the next three seasons, but

managed to grow a sizable fan base in Baltimore. In 1949 the Colts were

one of three AAFC teams, along with the San Francisco 49ers and the Cleveland Browns,

to be brought into the NFL following the AAFC-NFL merger. They played

only during the 1950 season before financial pressures forced them to

fold.

[The Old Crow]

Defunct teams are folded by the league. The 1953 Colts never were while the 1950 Colts were.

 

Listen I'll agree with you when you're right, but the facts are facts. Right now it's a matter of opinion for you, and what you are saying. I'd rather keep my opinion out of it.

 

 

I think the NFL could still declare the Baltimore Colts a defunct franchise. It would basically clean everything up, like the NFL did by making Modell leave all the history in Cleveland. I think if you took a poll, most would think this was a better solution than what it is currently, especially at the Hall of Fame. I know I'm in the minority on this forum, but I think most would see the fairness of this solution.

[Fx Stryker]

I think the NFL could still declare the Baltimore Colts a defunct franchise. It would basically clean everything up, like the NFL did by making Modell leave all the history in Cleveland. I think if you took a poll, most would think this was a better solution than what it is currently, especially at the Hall of Fame. I know I'm in the minority on this forum, but I think most would see the fairness of this solution.

 

The time has passed for them to do that, and if they did that they have to do it for the Cardinals, the Rams, the Titans, the Redskins and the Raiders (to an extent). Yes I understand the historical impact the Colts had over everybody, but the history accounts to what the team is worth.

 

 

For an extended question what if Rosenbloom left, like he originally intended, before selling the team to Irsay.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Hey Crow tell me some Irsay stories or your opinion of Johnny U leaving ?  got any good ones ? Or Old Colts stories ..

 

Were all Colts fans here lets hear what got your blood boiling blue besides the move .