Second thoughts maybe?

[southwest1]

Look, Peyton Manning played as QB in INDY from 1998-2010. A duration of 12 years. He won 1 SB. 2 AFC Championships, multiple division titles, and multiple Pro Bowl appearances. He had a very nice run in Indianapolis. But, all business partnerships come to an end. My initial reaction of Manning's release was one of devastation, but I'm okay with the move now. Our defense needed a complete overhaul, our special teams was pathetic, Bill Polian had long outworn his welcome and effectiveness as GM, and Jim Caldwell had no business being a Head Coach.

Andrew Luck will do just fine as our new field general and GM Grigson will surround him will solid pieces and give him a tenacious d-line to get the ball back when necessary. Best of all, we are not going be a finesse or "soft" franchise anymore. In the words of Coach Pagano, "Simple Me Complicated You. Let's Hunt!!!" Luck won't be a bust not by a longshot. Irsay made the right call. Don't make it personal. This is business. Remove emotion, weigh your options, and pull the trigger without hesitation.

[Yehoodi]

Given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to draft a #1 overal QB, well had the first pick overall, something that has never happen since to Merger to a team of the Colts pedigree (except for the 74 Cowboys, but they got it through a trade), the colts were in a unique situation that has not happened to a team with the colts pedigree . . . so there is really no precendent . . . . typically a team in the colts position will have their franchise QB retire and then end up with whatever is on the bench or pick a late 1st round QB near the last year of the encumbant's career . . .

but given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to get Luck, you gotta go with Luck, if Luck was not on the table and you are just drafting a later 1st rounder then you can wait . . .

Also, it looks like the colts are in a rebuilding mode and to have PM on staff would of been kind of a waste as it would be unlikely that the colts would make it to the SB, during the few retooling years, you might as well let Luck cut his teeth in the NFL and be experience and rolling along a few years down the road once the team catches up again . . . then you will have a rebuilt team and QB with 2-3 years of experience under his belt . . .

it is always a judgement call . . .PM could go on to have a great 3-4 years in Denver or not. . . Luck could be out of this world, just solid or middle of the road . . . only time will tell . . . but as prediction are concerned the opportuntiy to have a great QB and rebuild team years 3-10 from now makes going with Luck the better option . . .we'll just have to see how all things pan out . . .

[southwest1]

All I care really about is that within 2 seasons the Colts can renew our cherished rivalry with the NE Patriots. God, I love that rivalry! Hands down the best one in professional football. I don't even care if I take some heat from other NFL fans about my immense respect for Bill Belicheck, Tom Brady, Robert Kraft, and the entire Foxboro organization.

When my Colts can stand toe to toe with your illustrious Patriots again, I will be so happy words won't even begin to describe it. Luck vs Brady... Must see television Yehoodi about 2 years away yet my friend. Don't worry Yehoodi, my respect for NE will just intensify then as Playoff games come down to the final 30 seconds.

[southwest1]

Given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to draft a #1 overal QB, well had the first pick overall, something that has never happen since to Merger to a team of the Colts pedigree (except for the 74 Cowboys, but they got it through a trade), the colts were in a unique situation that has not happened to a team with the colts pedigree . . . so there is really no precendent . . . . typically a team in the colts position will have their franchise QB retire and then end up with whatever is on the bench or pick a late 1st round QB near the last year of the encumbant's career . . .

but given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to get Luck, you gotta go with Luck, if Luck was not on the table and you are just drafting a later 1st rounder then you can wait . . .

Also, it looks like the colts are in a rebuilding mode and to have PM on staff would of been kind of a waste as it would be unlikely that the colts would make it to the SB, during the few retooling years, you might as well let Luck cut his teeth in the NFL and be experience and rolling along a few years down the road once the team catches up again . . . then you will have a rebuilt team and QB with 2-3 years of experience under his belt . . .

it is always a judgement call . . .PM could go on to have a great 3-4 years in Denver or not. . . Luck could be out of this world, just solid or middle of the road . . . only time will tell . . . but as prediction are concerned the opportuntiy to have a great QB and rebuild team years 3-10 from now makes going with Luck the better option . . .we'll just have to see how all things pan out . . .

I agree 100% Yehoodi. It is far better to take our rookie QB lumps now with Luck than ride it out with Manning for 3-4 years of Playoffs contention. Nobody really knows how good Luck will be, but if he is protected with a decent line, surrounded by weapons, and given a stout defense, his level of success should increase rapidly. In some ways, I wish the Colts and Pats were in the same division like they used to be. However, at this stage you'd probably eat us for breakfast so maybe the current division set up is better as we rebuild our squad from the ground up. I do feel sorry for NE having to put up with the constant gimmicks of Rex Ryan and the NY Jets though. I respect Rex Ryan as a DC, but I wish he would just keep his mouth shut sometimes.

I think you guys are going to have smooth sailing and win your division without any trouble whatsoever. Your TE's & WR's looked fantastic! And your running back Ridley looks amazing!

[smittywerb]

Nope, no 2nd thoughts, no 3rd thoughts, nor 4th.

The window was closing for Peyton in Indy, we dont want to admit it but it was. There was no way we were going to be able to field a team around Peyton and his price tag. We would have regressed if we kept Peyton. And at the time, we had a once in a decade chance of picking the next big thing. It was time. It was earlier than expected, but it was time to let Peyton go and give him the best chance of getting to the SB NOW (keyword: NOW), and that was not with the Colts.

Now as far as Peyton, only difference I see is that he can not zip it in between defenders as good as he used to. He can still throw most passes with good power, but putting it between defenders was kind of difficult for him to do.

I don't think Peyton is gone for his ability to play, it was more of an economic decision and I agree with it still. It's hard to watch him play for another team but I feel good knowing he has a legit chance to win it again.

[smittywerb]

I agree 100% Yehoodi. It is far better to take our rookie QB lumps now with Luck than ride it out with Manning for 3-4 years of Playoffs contention. Nobody really knows how good Luck will be, but if he is protected with a decent line, surrounded by weapons, and given a stout defense, his level of success should increase rapidly. In some ways, I wish the Colts and Pats were in the same division like they used to be. However, at this stage you'd probably eat us for breakfast so maybe the current division set up is better as we rebuild our squad from the ground up. I do feel sorry for NE having to put up with the constant gimmicks of Rex Ryan and the NY Jets though. I respect Rex Ryan as a DC, but I wish he would just keep his mouth shut sometimes.

I think you guys are going to have smooth sailing and win your division without any trouble whatsoever. Your TE's & WR's looked fantastic! And your running back Ridley looks amazing!

Luck has already shown if given time he can pick apart a NFL defense as good as any veteran QB. We just now need to make sure we build the right way. Give him more weapons and a good defense, and then let him loose.

[southwest1]

One final point Yehoodi: Vince Wilfork never ceases to amaze. For such a big man, he is quick, agile, and light on his feet. He also has great hands and uses his leverage to textbook perfection 99% of the time. Big Men in the trenches never get enough respect in this league and Vince is a great asset to your d-line and overall squad IMO.

[BayAreaBronco]

He replied he needed that:)

He is prettier AND smarter than me

[WSO]

Given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to draft a #1 overal QB, well had the first pick overall, something that has never happen since to Merger to a team of the Colts pedigree (except for the 74 Cowboys, but they got it through a trade), the colts were in a unique situation that has not happened to a team with the colts pedigree . . . so there is really no precendent . . . . typically a team in the colts position will have their franchise QB retire and then end up with whatever is on the bench or pick a late 1st round QB near the last year of the encumbant's career . . .

but given the fact that the Colts had an opportunity to get Luck, you gotta go with Luck, if Luck was not on the table and you are just drafting a later 1st rounder then you can wait . . .

Also, it looks like the colts are in a rebuilding mode and to have PM on staff would of been kind of a waste as it would be unlikely that the colts would make it to the SB, during the few retooling years, you might as well let Luck cut his teeth in the NFL and be experience and rolling along a few years down the road once the team catches up again . . . then you will have a rebuilt team and QB with 2-3 years of experience under his belt . . .

it is always a judgement call . . .PM could go on to have a great 3-4 years in Denver or not. . . Luck could be out of this world, just solid or middle of the road . . . only time will tell . . . but as prediction are concerned the opportuntiy to have a great QB and rebuild team years 3-10 from now makes going with Luck the better option . . .we'll just have to see how all things pan out . . .

It's funny how a Patriots fan understands it better than some Colts fans. Manning would have wasted a lot of years chasing a SB here. He doesn't have 2-3 years to rebuild. He has a much better shot over in Denver at winning the big one. The Colts got a good young QB and can afford to rebuild for a few years. It's a win-win for both sides. I still root for Manning and the Colts. No regrets.

[oldunclemark]

It's funny how a Patriots fan understands it better than some Colts fans. Manning would have wasted a lot of years chasing a SB here. He doesn't have 2-3 years to rebuild. He has a much better shot over in Denver at winning the big one. The Colts got a good young QB and can afford to rebuild for a few years. It's a win-win for both sides. I still root for Manning and the Colts. No regrets.

Except that if we'd have kept Peyton....we'd have kept Saturday and Clark..and with a soft 'last place' schedule..we'd have been in the playoffs THIS season...

I'm much better with the change now that I've seen Luck actually play against a playoff caliber team for real...

I thought he did much better against he Bears than many on the board (and in the TV media) did...

..and you imporve dramatically after your first NFL game (IF YOU'RE GOOD) ...

I think the mood here will be much different next Monday

[BayAreaBronco]

From NY Times:

Bill Polian, the former Indianapolis Colts president who drafted Peyton Manning, had predicted that it would take half the season for Manning to get in sync with his new receivers and offensive linemen and have the Denver Broncos’ offense humming with the rhythm fans became accustomed to seeing in Indianapolis.

So much for that.

Polian, who works for ESPN, watched the Broncos’ 31-19 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday night, in which Manning ran the no-huddle offense with startling ease for a player who had missed a season and changed teams, and came away thinking one thing.

“It might as well have been 2006,” Polian said Monday morning.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/sports/football/peyton-manning-turns-back-the-clock-in-denver.html?_r=1

[oldunclemark]

From NY Times:

Bill Polian, the former Indianapolis Colts president who drafted Peyton Manning, had predicted that it would take half the season for Manning to get in sync with his new receivers and offensive linemen and have the Denver Broncos’ offense humming with the rhythm fans became accustomed to seeing in Indianapolis.

So much for that.

Polian, who works for ESPN, watched the Broncos’ 31-19 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday night, in which Manning ran the no-huddle offense with startling ease for a player who had missed a season and changed teams, and came away thinking one thing.

“It might as well have been 2006,” Polian said Monday morning.

http://www.nytimes.c...enver.html?_r=1

very interesting...

[Yehoodi]

I agree 100% Yehoodi. It is far better to take our rookie QB lumps now with Luck than ride it out with Manning for 3-4 years of Playoffs contention. Nobody really knows how good Luck will be, but if he is protected with a decent line, surrounded by weapons, and given a stout defense, his level of success should increase rapidly. In some ways, I wish the Colts and Pats were in the same division like they used to be. However, at this stage you'd probably eat us for breakfast so maybe the current division set up is better as we rebuild our squad from the ground up. I do feel sorry for NE having to put up with the constant gimmicks of Rex Ryan and the NY Jets though. I respect Rex Ryan as a DC, but I wish he would just keep his mouth shut sometimes.

I think you guys are going to have smooth sailing and win your division without any trouble whatsoever. Your TE's & WR's looked fantastic! And your running back Ridley looks amazing!

Thanks . . . we'll see how the division turns out . . . as it stands the three teams in the division are not as strong as we are, but that does not mean we cant lose the division and missed the playoffs . . .

getting back to the QB and the passing of the banton, here in NE we are in the more traditional mode of waiting for Brady to be near the end of his career or retire, perhaps the Pats might trade him in the last year or two . . . or he may retire a Patriot . . . either way, the Pats are going to take what ever is on the bench or try to get a QB in the draft Brady second to or last year . . .

so going this route is nice, as we have somewhat rebuilt the team, it is going to be a nice run the next 3-5 years, but after that we are going to have to take what we can get, and I am already getting myself mentally set that we will be a solid team, a playoff here and there, even a few deep runs after Brady retires, but not like we have now, so I am trying to enjoy it as much as possible this present run cause I know it will very likley be less prosperous once Brady retires . . . so Pats fan can have fun now but not so much later . ..

contrary the colts, who seem to be rebuilting, my not have all the fun now, but have a lot to look forward too . . . you all just gotta think of the next few years as gravy and getting excited about the next 3-10 years . . .

[Yehoodi]

One final point Yehoodi: Vince Wilfork never ceases to amaze. For such a big man, he is quick, agile, and light on his feet. He also has great hands and uses his leverage to textbook perfection 99% of the time. Big Men in the trenches never get enough respect in this league and Vince is a great asset to your d-line and overall squad IMO.

yes Vince is solid and hopefully our front 7 will be better this year, we'll see . . .

[Yehoodi]

It's funny how a Patriots fan understands it better than some Colts fans. Manning would have wasted a lot of years chasing a SB here. He doesn't have 2-3 years to rebuild. He has a much better shot over in Denver at winning the big one. The Colts got a good young QB and can afford to rebuild for a few years. It's a win-win for both sides. I still root for Manning and the Colts. No regrets.

Yes and I as said two post ago, the Pats are in the traditional mode of trying to pick up the peices after the retirement/trade/FA of a HBF QB . . . . we made still be solid, but we will see . . .

When one looks at some of the great teams since the Merger . . . 70-80s Raiders (Stabler-Plunket), 70s Boys (Starbauch), 70s steelers (Bradshaw), 80-90s 49ers (Montana-Young), 90 boys (Aiken), 80-90 Broncos (Elway), 70s Vikings (Tarkenton), 80s-90 Fins (Marino) . . . one sees that after the great/HBF retired the teams fell off the top of the leaque and in many cases fell into the abysis for many seasons . . . so sure it would be great to hold on for dear life to your HOF QB, but when you have a chance to get a QB who appears to be good enough to avoid the abysis, then you got to take him . . . this is true for any team/HOF QB . . .

Plus too you guys get to cheer for two teams, and from a personal note, as you indicated, PM might have a better shot at a sB with Denver . . .

[JimJaime]

The decision was for the long term, not the short term. We all have this utopia of having the cake and eating it too, which would mean draft Luck at No.1 and let him learn under Peyton and then let Peyton go after 2 or 3 years.

To me, that would have only hurt both QBs, for different reasons. Right decision for the Colts all the way!!!

Now, if the Colts' O-line would protect Luck like Denver's did for the most part, we will get better!!! Rome was never built in a day and Peyton did not become the QB he is now in one year, so let us never forget that!!!

Both Luck and Peyton are in situations where they are both comfortable.

OR playing devils advocate here late P Manning play this year then TRADE him next year for a butt load of picks.

[JimJaime]

Yes and I as said two post ago, the Pats are in the traditional mode of trying to pick up the peices after the retirement/trade/FA of a HBF QB . . . . we made still be solid, but we will see . . .

When one looks at some of the great teams since the Merger . . . 70-80s Raiders (Stabler-Plunket), 70s Boys (Starbauch), 70s steelers (Bradshaw), 80-90s 49ers (Montana-Young), 90 boys (Aiken), 80-90 Broncos (Elway), 70s Vikings (Tarkenton), 80s-90 Fins (Marino) . . . one sees that after the great/HBF retired the teams fell off the top of the leaque and in many cases fell into the abysis for many seasons . . . so sure it would be great to hold on for dear life to your HOF QB, but when you have a chance to get a QB who appears to be good enough to avoid the abysis, then you got to take him . . . this is true for any team/HOF QB . . .

Plus too you guys get to cheer for two teams, and from a personal note, as you indicated, PM might have a better shot at a sB with Denver . . .

Hmmm I dont think the Steelers have EVER gone into an Abyss or at least not for more than a year.... (they always seem to be good year after year.)

[Yehoodi]

Hmmm I dont think the Steelers have EVER gone into an Abyss or at least not for more than a year.... (they always seem to be good year after year.)

True, but the 80s Steelers were not really that great. As the story goes, the Steelers passed up on Marino in the draft. After Bradshaw retired the Steeler did not have a season with 10 or more wins for some 8 years or so, just mulling around the middle of the pack . . . it was really not till Cowher came in as the coach in the early 90s that they started to be a threat to top of the NFL . . . Imagine if the Steelers drafted Marino to be Bradshaw replacement . . .

[JimJaime]

True, but the 80s Steelers were not really that great. As the story goes, the Steelers passed up on Marino in the draft. After Bradshaw retired the Steeler did not have a season with 10 or more wins for some 8 years or so, just mulling around the middle of the pack . . . it was really not till Cowher came in as the coach in the early 90s that they started to be a threat to top of the NFL . . . Imagine if the Steelers drafted Marino to be Bradshaw replacement . . .

i probably would have liked Marino more then lol... and he (Marino) would have won a few rings in Pitt.

[southwest1]

Thanks . . . we'll see how the division turns out . . . as it stands the three teams in the division are not as strong as we are, but that does not mean we cant lose the division and missed the playoffs . . .

getting back to the QB and the passing of the banton, here in NE we are in the more traditional mode of waiting for Brady to be near the end of his career or retire, perhaps the Pats might trade him in the last year or two . . . or he may retire a Patriot . . . either way, the Pats are going to take what ever is on the bench or try to get a QB in the draft Brady second to or last year . . .

so going this route is nice, as we have somewhat rebuilt the team, it is going to be a nice run the next 3-5 years, but after that we are going to have to take what we can get, and I am already getting myself mentally set that we will be a solid team, a playoff here and there, even a few deep runs after Brady retires, but not like we have now, so I am trying to enjoy it as much as possible this present run cause I know it will very likley be less prosperous once Brady retires . . . so Pats fan can have fun now but not so much later . ..

contrary the colts, who seem to be rebuilting, my not have all the fun now, but have a lot to look forward too . . . you all just gotta think of the next few years as gravy and getting excited about the next 3-10 years . . .

I really enjoy reading your perspective on both our NFL squads Yehoodi. I have to admit that I am curious to see Belicheck's level of loyalty to Brady over the next 3-4 years. Brady's play has been astounding since his 1st SB victory in 2001 against the St. Louis Rams and his level of precision accuracy has been steadily maintained year after year, season after season. If the Patriots win a SB in 2012/2013, Tom Brady can step down whenever he wants. But, at some point very soon, Belicheck needs to think about starting to groom his replacement. It's the age old question: Do you ride your proven SB winning veteran until the tank is literally empty or do you think about trading him 4 years from now? Heck, I thought Peyton Manning would retire as a Colt and he's playing in Denver right now so anything is possible and no one is untouchable and protected.

The biggest asset to Brady's longterm Foxboro job security is the return of Josh McDaniel as OC. Josh and Tom had great chemistry working together. Those 2 minds collaborating with one another generated almost unstoppable offenses that could score at will and no other defensive squad could neutralize them. If your o-line still had Matt Light in it, Tom would be fine, but Bill and Josh will solve any o-line problems with Gronkowski, Herandez, and slot receiver Wes Welker IMO. And now with RBs Woodhead and Ridley, whenever you have a 4th quarter lead just run out the clock.

Thank you for your kind words about my Colts. I'm hoping we pursue some linemen of girth, strength, and agility in next year's draft. Andrew Luck needs better protection and time to survey the field without running for his life. Luck will have an intimidating defense which I am grateful for.

[Yehoodi]

I really enjoy reading your perspective on both our NFL squads Yehoodi. I have to admit that I am curious to see Belicheck's level of loyalty to Brady over the next 3-4 years. Brady's play has been astounding since his 1st SB victory in 2001 against the St. Louis Rams and his level of precision accuracy has been steadily maintained year after year, season after season. If the Patriots win a SB in 2012/2013, Tom Brady can step down whenever he wants. But, at some point very soon, Belicheck needs to think about starting to groom his replacement. It's the age old question: Do you ride your proven SB winning veteran until the tank is literally empty or do you think about trading him 4 years from now? Heck, I thought Peyton Manning would retire as a Colt and he's playing in Denver right now so anything is possible and no one is untouchable and protected.

The biggest asset to Brady's longterm Foxboro job security is the return of Josh McDaniel as OC. Josh and Tom had great chemistry working together. Those 2 minds collaborating with one another generated almost unstoppable offenses that could score at will and no other defensive squad could neutralize them. If your o-line still had Matt Light in it, Tom would be fine, but Bill and Josh will solve any o-line problems with Gronkowski, Herandez, and slot receiver Wes Welker IMO. And now with RBs Woodhead and Ridley, whenever you have a 4th quarter lead just run out the clock.

Thank you for your kind words about my Colts. I'm hoping we pursue some linemen of girth, strength, and agility in next year's draft. Andrew Luck needs better protection and time to survey the field without running for his life. Luck will have an intimidating defense which I am grateful for.

Not sure what will happened with Brady . . . my guess, and what i think is the most likely situation, is that he will stay a patriot till he retires and the Pats will have a revolving door of 3rd picks being groomed behind him and that 3rd round pick will step in his shoes once he retires . . . of coarse with this philopshy you have to delicate a 3rd pick or so, every 3-4 years . . . Kevin O'Connell was a 3rd rounder and never really saw the field . . . so there is a cost doing it this way . . .

The only monkey wrench that I see is if Mallett really developes and BB feels comfortable handing the reigns over to him . . . in that case the Pats could trade Brady in this last year of his contract to a team that wants to win now (and will likely resign him for a few more years) and get something in return to help Mallett . . .

We'll have to wait and see what happens . . .