Report: Toronto Argos' OC Marcus Brady joining the Colts staff

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize what he did in 83 in Miami and in 89 on the Browns, neither were HC jobs. He got some value out of Jake Plummer and did well with Rich Gannon, but as an OC. Funny thing is, you probably knew nothing about him and just looked up some info just to learn about him 5 mins ago. It's always copy/paste, click on an article. No one has any real knowledge, they just look it up and pretend too. Have the people on here would be lost if they were talking in public instead of on a computer. I may not do as much research, but at least I'm not fake where I pretend to know more than I do. What I talk about is what I 100% know.

I do both in the NFL and CFL

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yes, he started in Miami I believe. Doesn't change my mind about him. His concepts don't work in today's NFL. Otherwise, he'd have a job here today (likely with the Bears still).

Yeah....because talent doesn't matter in the NFL....how many coaches get fired all the time not because they don't know how to coach but simply they don't have the players to succeed at it. Yeah...never happens....only WCO coaches succeed in the NFL....and they NEVER fail.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, dgambill said:

Yeah....because talent doesn't matter in the NFL....how many coaches get fired all the time not because they don't know how to coach but simply they don't have the players to succeed at it. Yeah...never happens....only WCO coaches succeed in the NFL....and they NEVER fail.

Even WCO coaches fail see Sam Wyche in TB

[Yoshinator]

Just now, dgambill said:

Yeah....because talent doesn't matter in the NFL....how many coaches get fired all the time not because they don't know how to coach but simply they don't have the players to succeed at it. Yeah...never happens....only WCO coaches succeed in the NFL....and they NEVER fail.

You have an excuse for everything, don't you? That's why they hire the coaches, to work with the players that the team has. If there was a team of pro-bowlers on every team, even you or I could coach them. Should I wipe Trestman's butt too?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yes, he started in Miami I believe. Doesn't change my mind about him. His concepts don't work in today's NFL. Otherwise, he'd have a job here today (likely with the Bears still).

 

This is absolutely false. You want to discuss facts, let's do it.

 

When Trestman took over for the Bears, their offense immediately improved by over 4 points per game, and one yard per play. Their penalties went down, turnovers went down, sacks went down, etc. And that's with Cutler missing 5 games.

 

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

You're acting like he came to the NFL and tried to install some radical and unproven concepts, which he didn't. Say this about Chip Kelly, but it doesn't apply to Marc Trestman. His issue was with leadership and accountability, not offensive concepts.

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown    

   Everything Will Be Okay

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize what he did in 83 in Miami and in 89 on the Browns, neither were HC jobs. He got some value out of Jake Plummer and did well with Rich Gannon, but as an OC. Funny thing is, you probably knew nothing about him and just looked up some info just to learn about him 5 mins ago. It's always copy/paste, click on an article. No one has any real knowledge, they just look it up and pretend too. Half the people on here would be lost if they were talking in public instead of on a computer. I may not do as much research, but at least I'm not fake where I pretend to know more than I do. What I talk about is what I 100% know.

So if you know him as well as you say you do then you would know that he WAS successful in the NFL. You just listed several accomplishments and then wipe them all away because Chicago fired him as a coach.....even when he actually improved their offense while he was there. I may not know all of Trestman's work by heart but he wouldn't have continually got jobs in the NFL and then had successful offenses if he was a hack. I am fine having a coach that has worked under him. Trestman has a great mind for the offensive side of the ball...utilizing many different aspects to run his offenses in widely different levels. He is very adaptable.....is that not a positive?

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

This is absolutely false. You want to discuss facts, let's do it.

 

When Trestman took over for the Bears, their offense immediately improved by over 4 points per game, and one yard per play. Their penalties went down, turnovers went down, sacks went down, etc. And that's with Cutler missing 5 games.

 

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

You're acting like he came to the NFL and tried to install some radical and unproven concepts, which he didn't. Say this about Chip Kelly, but it doesn't apply to Marc Trestman. His issue was with leadership and accountability, not offensive concepts.

Nicely Put 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Even WCO coaches fail see Sam Wyche in TB

Yeah I was trying to be sarcastic lol...anyways this is a lost argument...nothing will convince him otherwise. I'm not even saying the opposite...that he is some all time great coach...but simply that he has been successful in this league and that someone that has learned under him can be as well. Oh well!

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is absolutely false. You want to discuss facts, let's do it.

 

When Trestman took over for the Bears, their offense immediately improved by over 4 points per game, and one yard per play. Their penalties went down, turnovers went down, sacks went down, etc. And that's with Cutler missing 5 games.

 

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

You're acting like he came to the NFL and tried to install some radical and unproven concepts, which he didn't. Say this about Chip Kelly, but it doesn't apply to Marc Trestman. His issue was with leadership and accountability, not offensive concepts.

imagine how bad of a leader Brady must be then since he's worked under Trestman. He will probably * off Luck and make him leave and then will destroy the defensive locker room. 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So if you know him as well as you say you do then you would know that he WAS successful in the NFL. You just listed several accomplishments and then wipe them all away because Chicago fired him as a coach.....even when he actually improved their offense while he was there. I may not know all of Trestman's work by heart but he wouldn't have continually got jobs in the NFL and then had successful offenses if he was a hack. I am fine having a coach that has worked under him. Trestman has a great mind for the offensive side of the ball...utilizing many different aspects to run his offenses in widely different levels. He is very adaptable.....is that not a positive?

That is how I feel

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is absolutely false. You want to discuss facts, let's do it.

 

When Trestman took over for the Bears, their offense immediately improved by over 4 points per game, and one yard per play. Their penalties went down, turnovers went down, sacks went down, etc. And that's with Cutler missing 5 games.

 

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

You're acting like he came to the NFL and tried to install some radical and unproven concepts, which he didn't. Say this about Chip Kelly, but it doesn't apply to Marc Trestman. His issue was with leadership and accountability, not offensive concepts.

Then he still has a lot of problems as a coach, and he's basically an OC where he doesn't have to take on the HC responsibilities. My point stands. I don't want any of his habits to rub on a young coach that could affect Andrew Luck.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Yeah I was trying to be sarcastic lol...anyways this is a lost argument...nothing will convince him otherwise. I'm not even saying the opposite...that he is some all time great coach...but simply that he has been successful in this league and that someone that has learned under him can be as well. Oh well!

I know you were

   

[Yoshinator]

Bottom line, I don't like this hire. I'm 100% real about it. I'm always honest when I love something and always admit my mistakes. I won't lie just to be a company fan though. This one bugs me. Loved Ballard, loved Reich, hate this hire. It'll have to be a prove-it-to-me thing that convinces me otherwise. Nothing anyone can say right now that can do so. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Then he still has a lot of problems as a coach, and he's basically an OC where he doesn't have to take on the HC responsibilities. My point stands. I don't want any of his habits to rub on a young coach that could affect Andrew Luck.

So we(fans) are going to denounce a hire because he worked for a coach that might have problems running a locker room

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Bottom line, I don't like this hire. I'm 100% real about it. I'm always honest when I love something and always admit my mistakes. I won't lie just to be a company fan though. This one bugs me. Loved Ballard, loved Reich, hate this hire. It'll have to be a prove-it-to-me thing that convinces me otherwise. Nothing anyone can say right now that can do so. 

Unless you are part of the Colts brass it doesn’t matter

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So we(fans) are going to denounce a hire because he worked for a coach that might have problems running a locker room

There's no we to it here. I'm going to figure out a pattern between Trestman and Brady of what could of been taught and make a logical conclusion on what could of been passed down between the two. You'll be happy-go-lucky positive on everything like you always are because you're a casual fan along for the ride and entertainment. I'm the analytics guy that digs deep into things and looks for the probability of what will happen while you're the possibility guy that says anything is possible and builds a positive debate over that.

[Superman]

And more on topic, Marcus Brady is a former small college QB who played a couple years in Canada, then went into coaching in Canada. We're assuming he'll be the QB coach, but he was a WR coach before becoming the OC, so who knows what job he'll have...

 

He worked with Trestman, who has decades of experience as an NFL position coach. He also worked with Scott Milanovich, who has several years of experience as a CFL position coach.

 

And QB is QB. Footwork, mechanics, proper drops from under center, reading defenses, going through progressions, understanding down and distance, working the clock, etc... No reason someone with CFL experience can't coach the position in the NFL. Same with WRs. There are some differences in splits because of the width of the field, formations and procedure as well, but not a big deal, especially for someone with a playing background in American football.

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My point stands. I don't want any of his habits to rub on a young coach that could affect Andrew Luck.

 

What habits are those?

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What habits are those?

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

This. Habits tend to rub off on assistant coaches over time, and they start to become part of their repitoire. Don't want any of this near Luck.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

There's no we to it here. I'm going to figure out a pattern between Trestman and Brady of what could of been taught and make a logical conclusion on what could of been passed down between the two. You'll be happy-go-lucky positive on everything like you always are because you're a casual fan along for the ride and entertainment. I'm the analytics guy that digs deep into things and looks for the probability of what will happen while you're the possibility guy that says anything is possible and builds a positive debate over that.

I am nowhere a casual fan unless you consider a coach’s kid who became a coach

  I have a positive attitude with everything because of my coaching background 

 

  FYI 

 

  I developed Offensive Game plans during my coaching career

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

   

[shakedownstreet]

2 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Interesting 

 

Wow

 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Bradys are good people.

 

Yeah, but they are uniquely prone to catching the sniffles

[Dilger85]

34 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I realize what he did in 83 in Miami and in 89 on the Browns, neither were HC jobs. He got some value out of Jake Plummer and did well with Rich Gannon, but as an OC. Funny thing is, you probably knew nothing about him and just looked up some info just to learn about him 5 mins ago. It's always copy/paste, click on an article. No one has any real knowledge, they just look it up and pretend too. Half the people on here would be lost if they were talking in public instead of on a computer. I may not do as much research, but at least I'm not fake where I pretend to know more than I do. What I talk about is what I 100% know.

Except you don't know anything, you are making assumptions.  I knew about Marc mainly from San Francisco but also when you worked with Oakland under Gruden.  Is Gruden a terrible coach that you would want nothing to do with?  You are trying to connect dots that are not there.  This hire isn't coming in to be the HC so why are you obsessing over his mentor's HC record?  Look at Marc's offensive past and you will see that one of his 49er offenses lead the league in offense, he helped Rich Gannon and Jake Plummer have career years and then he helped SCOTT MITCHELL through for over 3700 yards.  I like learning more about things, that is why I research topics before I spout of my uninformed opinion.  Please define "real knowledge".

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Dilger85 said:

Except you don't know anything, you are making assumptions.  I knew about Marc mainly from San Francisco but also when you worked with Oakland under Gruden.  Is Gruden a terrible coach that you would want nothing to do with?  You are trying to connect dots that are not there.  This hire isn't coming in to be the HC so why are you obsessing over his mentor's HC record?  Look at Marc's offensive past and you will see that one of his 49er offenses lead the league in offense, he helped Rich Gannon and Jake Plummer have career years and then he helped SCOTT MITCHELL through for over 3700 yards.  I like learning more about things, that is why I research topics before I spout of my uninformed opinion.  Please define "real knowledge".

Real knowledge is not looking up the answer to something to give the illusion that you are smarter than you really are. Unfortunately, anyone can appear like a genius if they do research first.

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I am nowhere a casual fan unless you consider a coach’s kid who became a coach

  I have a positive attitude with everything because of my coaching background 

 

  FYI 

 

  I developed Offensive Game plans during my coaching career

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

   

Your knowledge may be that of a hardcore, but your attitude is that of a casual, like you are ok with whatever happens and you'll go along with it. I'm the opposite, a control freak, which is why I've preferred fantasy sports to real sports the last few years.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Your knowledge may be that of a hardcore, but your attitude is that of a casual, like you are ok with whatever happens and you'll go along with it. I'm the opposite, a control freak, which is why I've preferred fantasy sports to real sports the last few years.

I have that attitude because of personal issues that I don’t want to talk about

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I have that attitude because of personal issues that I don’t want to talk about

Fair enough

[Clem-Dog]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Real knowledge is not looking up the answer to something to give the illusion that you are smarter than you really are. Unfortunately, anyone can appear like a genius if they do research first.

This doesn't make sense as knowledge is not innate rather it is gained by doing research and learning about a particular subject.  Even geniuses have to be exposed to something to learn about it, granted they learn at a rapid pace.

 

As much as you respect Chris and Frank, maybe extend them the courtesy of your trust.  Because what you're essentially doing is questioning their expertise more so than anyone on this board.

[BPindy]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your knowledge may be that of a hardcore, but your attitude is that of a casual, like you are ok with whatever happens and you'll go along with it. I'm the opposite, a control freak, which is why I've preferred fantasy sports to real sports the last few years.

 

Just because someone has a more laid back attitude or try to see positives doesn’t mean they’re “casual” or don’t care what happens. You’re really getting worked up in this thread man. Take a step back and chill.

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Trestman got fired in Chicago because he completely lost control of his team. He had problems with Jay Cutler, the defensive players didn't like him, and he didn't have the ability to keep his team pulling in the same direction. 

 

This. Habits tend to rub off on assistant coaches over time, and they start to become part of their repitoire. Don't want any of this near Luck.

 

Those aren't habits, those are personality traits.

 

Is your argument really that, because Marcus Brady has spent 5 of his 38 years on the same staff with Marc Trestman (with a five year gap in there, btw), that he now has the same personality traits as Marc Trestman?

 

And considering the fact that Trestman's failures were specific to his fit as an NFL head coach, not a position coach, does it even matter?

 

You dove head first into the shallow end on this one. Your position is nonsensical. I don't know whether Brady is going to be a good position coach in the NFL; I don't even know whether he's actually joining the Colts, or if he might be taking a QC position... we don't know a lot about this. But I do know that it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that his association with Marc Trestman dooms him to be a bad NFL coach in any capacity. 

 

If you just stop to think about it rationally for a second, rather than trying to defend your snap judgment of Brady because you dislike Marc Trestman, it becomes pretty obvious how ridiculous this argument really is.

[Jackie Daytona]

I guess I should stop looking things up and reading them, as the only true knowledge on NFL coaching staff's can be gained solely by personal eye-testing.....

 

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

I guess I should stop looking things up and reading them, as the only true knowledge on NFL coaching staff's can be gained solely by personal eye-testing.....

 

I didn't say that, but it makes things deceptive among the forum with who is smarter. Even Superman looks up the vast majority of his stats. If we compared our knowledge without internet aid, it'd be very close to even instead of him being the overwhelming smartest person on the forum.

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

This doesn't make sense as knowledge is not innate rather it is gained by doing research and learning about a particular subject.  Even geniuses have to be exposed to something to learn about it, granted they learn at a rapid pace.

 

As much as you respect Chris and Frank, maybe extend them the courtesy of your trust.  Because what you're essentially doing is questioning their expertise more so than anyone on this board.

Fair enough.

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, BPindy said:

 

Just because someone has a more laid back attitude or try to see positives doesn’t mean they’re “casual” or don’t care what happens. You’re really getting worked up in this thread man. Take a step back and chill.

To be fair, I don't like either extreme. I hate when people are always positive, but I also hate when they are always negative. You have to be open to both sides of the argument for me to respect your opinion. There's going to be good and bad, and you can't always be on one side. I say that toward everyone on this forum.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I didn't say that, but it makes things deceptive among the forum with who is smarter. Even Superman looks up the vast majority of his stats. If we compared our knowledge without internet aid, it'd be very close to even instead of him being the overwhelming smartest person on the forum.

 

Here's my question: Why doesn't everyone look up stats and info on a topic before talking about it?

[Yoshinator]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Those aren't habits, those are personality traits.

 

Is your argument really that, because Marcus Brady has spent 5 of his 38 years on the same staff with Marc Trestman (with a five year gap in there, btw), that he now has the same personality traits as Marc Trestman?

 

And considering the fact that Trestman's failures were specific to his fit as an NFL head coach, not a position coach, does it even matter?

 

You dove head first into the shallow end on this one. Your position is nonsensical. I don't know whether Brady is going to be a good position coach in the NFL; I don't even know whether he's actually joining the Colts, or if he might be taking a QC position... we don't know a lot about this. But I do know that it's absolutely ridiculous to assume that his association with Marc Trestman dooms him to be a bad NFL coach in any capacity. 

 

If you just stop to think about it rationally for a second, rather than trying to defend your snap judgment of Brady because you dislike Marc Trestman, it becomes pretty obvious how ridiculous this argument really is.

I believe people generally pick up traits from people they are around. Kids pick them up from their parents, friends from other friends, even stuff like an accent from moving to another country. That can happen in coaching from spending a lot of time with another person you work with as well. Whether it happens here is too be determined, however I don't think we can rule out the possibility either. Whatever happens, happens at this point.

[Jackie Daytona]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I believe people generally pick up traits from people they are around. Kids pick them up from their parents, friends from other friends, even stuff like an accent from moving to another country. That can happen in coaching from spending a lot of time with another person you work with as well. Whether it happens here is too be determined, however I don't think we can rule out the possibility either. Whatever happens, happens at this point.

yeah, bu t I digress..... 5 years, of an apparent 38 of a working relationship with 1 individual, shouldn't hold much sway, seeing as you are not exclusively influenced by any one person even for those 5 years, 38 years total, of a variety of influences, would almost always override

 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I believe people generally pick up traits from people they are around. Kids pick them up from their parents, friends from other friends, even stuff like an accent from moving to another country. That can happen in coaching from spending a lot of time with another person you work with as well. Whether it happens here is too be determined, however I don't think we can rule out the possibility either. Whatever happens, happens at this point.

 

I agree, people rub off on each other. But you're acting like Marcus Brady is going to be a carbon copy of Marc Trestman, and that's not how it works at all.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

To be fair, I don't like either extreme. I hate when people are always positive, but I also hate when they are always negative. You have to be open to both sides of the argument for me to respect your opinion. There's going to be good and bad, and you can't always be on one side. I say that toward everyone on this forum.

I am a mediator in everything I do and I rarely see the need to be negative in public

 

  Learned that from my parents,teachers, and coaches

 

   When you are told you would never run let alone walk one looks at things positive 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Here's my question: Why doesn't everyone look up stats and info on a topic before talking about it?

For me, I was always taught how bad plagarizing was, and I'm hesitant to look up someone else's work and post it as basically my own facts. It's just a force of habit from high school and college. For example, I don't want to look up a scouting report, basically copy the scouting report word for word as an argument for or against. I wouldn't know anything about that player, it's not my opinion. I feel I should say what I know, unless it's some exact stat like a rank or something similar.