Patriots acquire Kyle Van Noy from Lions

[chad72]

 

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/10/25/13408444/report-patriots-acquire-lb-kyle-van-noy-pretty-much-for-free-from-lions-in-a-trade

 

[SkyBane]

What they mean by 'basically free' is that the Lions send over Van Noy and a 7th and the Patriots send over a 6th.

 

Yeah, it's a free backup at lb.

[Happy2BeHere]

I like Kyle Van Noy...he was a heck of a player for my BYU Cougars.

[OffensivelyPC]

Wish we could make deals like this...

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Wish we could make deals like this...

 

Can't... too many layers / barriers.  Remember, the Patriots HC is also the GM.  I'll bet Ther Pats GM had Van Noy high on his list, and saw an opportunity to get him on the bargain rack. In addition, the coach/GM knows his strengths and versatility and just where/how he'll fit in.  Wait and see a few games down the road when he has a sack or two, some pressures, and a great play/pass breakup or two.

 

For us?  Pagano walking down the hallway... "Ryan, a staffer tells me Van Noy is available. Can you get him?"

 

"Chuck, heck no. We are not giving up draft picks and our future up to get some flailing players on others rosters."  Walks on by...

[OffensivelyPC]

3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Can't... too many layers / barriers.  Remember, the Patriots HC is also the GM.  I'll bet Ther Pats GM had Van Noy high on his list, and saw an opportunity to get him on the bargain rack. In addition, the coach/GM knows his strengths and versatility and just where/how he'll fit in.  Wait and see a few games down the road when he has a sack or two, some pressures, and a great play/pass breakup or two.

 

For us?  Pagano walking down the hallway... "Ryan, a staffer tells me Van Noy is available. Can you get him?"

 

"Chuck, heck no. We are not giving up draft picks and our future up to get some flailing players on others rosters."  Walks on by...

?? They arent giving up a future, Patriots are swappingpicks AND getting Van Noy. Has nothing to do with layers IMO.

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

?? They arent giving up a future, Patriots are swappingpicks AND getting Van Noy. Has nothing to do with layers IMO.

 

They are swapping a 6th rounder next year to get a 7th rounder next year.  And an injury riddled and poor performing player this year.  Bill will get him healthy, has an identity on his defense, and knows how to plug a coached / trained and healthy Van Noy into that identity to get production. Colts have no defense identity, and will play a poorly performing and nicked up player all the way to the bench or to the I.R., and give up a 6th to get a 7th next year doing so.

 

The layers is Pagano can't just go get him, he must run it by Grigson, and maybe even Irsay first...

 

 

[Jason_]

22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

 

"Chuck, heck no. We are not giving up draft picks and our future up to get some flailing players on others rosters."  Walks on by...

 

What in Grigson's history would make you say that?  He's made several trades using late round draft picks for depth players.

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

They are swapping a 6th rounder next year to get a 7th rounder next year.  And an injury riddled and poor performing player this year.  Bill will get him healthy, has an identity on his defense, and knows how to plug a coached / trained and healthy Van Noy into that identity to get production. Colts have no defense identity, and will play a poorly performing and nicked up player all the way to the bench or to the I.R., and give up a 6th to get a 7th next year doing so.

 

The layers is Pagano can't just go get him, he must run it by Grigson, and maybe even Irsay first...

 

 

1) you are making assumptions on asdumptions.

 

2) Pagano isnt the one who should be asking anything. Grigson acquires the talent, Pagano is there for consultation, not permission. If Grigson cant find talent, he has no business being GM.

 

3) Van Noy was a 3- 4 Prospect who was stuffed into a 4-3 off the ball OLB. He obviously has talent being drafted in the 2nd which is why swapping a 6th for a 7th and getting Kyle is no big deal.

 

4) you are overvaluing these picks. Pats, lets say the make the AFCCG, will be drafting 30th-ish in the 6th. The Lions are middle of the pack right now, so lets say the draft 16th...the Pats are dropping back roughly 20 spots plus the compensatory picks and getting Van Noy...big friggin whoop. Thats worth the risk.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

the Pats are dropping back roughly 20 spots plus the compensatory picks and getting Van Noy...big friggin whoop. Thats worth the risk.

Lol what risk? The pats essentially traded back out of the 6th to get an extra 7th and guaranteed lb depth. That's no risk, all reward for them.

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

1) you are making assumptions on asdumptions.

 

2) Pagano isnt the one who should be asking anything. Grigson acquires the talent, Pagano is there for consultation, not permission. If Grigson cant find talent, he has no business being GM.

 

3) Van Noy was a 3- 4 Prospect who was stuffed into a 4-3 off the ball OLB. He obviously has talent being drafted in the 2nd which is why swapping a 6th for a 7th and getting Kyle is no big deal.

 

4) you are overvaluing these picks. Pats, lets say the make the AFCCG, will be drafting 30th-ish in the 6th. The Lions are middle of the pack right now, so lets say the draft 16th...the Pats are dropping back roughly 20 spots plus the compensatory picks and getting Van Noy...big friggin whoop. Thats worth the risk.

 

To the bolded, then I guess Pagano or assistants should never attend another combine or Pro day then, yes?

 

These guys should work together, and Pagano knows what type of talent fits his and his coordinators schemes even better than the GM.  He needs to be involved.  I've heard Pat Kirwin talk about HC's going up to GM's all of the time asking for certain players.  And Assistant coaches go up to the HC asking for certain players too.

 

And I feel you are over valuating an oft injured and poor performing player.  It is almost standard (and a Kirwin benchmark)... you are what you are by your third year in the league.  A players floor and ceiling and are pretty much known. And their future injury risk.

 

I think this might pay off for Bill Belichick down the road, but such a trade would never work for us.  And Irsay wants to draft and grow from the inside.  These injured a flailing (or soon to be) vets form other rosters are not a smart move these days.  They take up rosters spots and reps from younger players that need to be developed, or jettisoned and replaced with even younger talent. 

 

I'm glad we didn't pull the trigger, and we disagree.  no biggie.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

To the bolded, then I guess Pagano or assistants should never attend another combine or Pro day then, yes?

 

These guys should work together, and Pagano knows what type of talent fits his and his coordinators schemes even better than the GM.  He needs to be involved.  I've heard Pat Kirwin talk about HC's going up to GM's all of the time asking for certain players.  And Assistant coaches go up to the HC asking for certain players too.

 

And I feel you are over valuating an oft injured and poor performing player.  It is almost standard (and a Kirwin benchmark)... you are what you are by your third year in the league.  A players floor and ceiling and are pretty much known. And their future injury risk.

 

I think this might pay off for Bill Belichick down the road, but such a trade would never work for us.  And Irsay wants to draft and grow from the inside.  These injured a flailing (or soon to be) vets form other rosters are not a smart move these days.  They take up rosters spots and reps from younger players that need to be developed, or jettisoned and replaced with even younger talent. 

 

I'm glad we didn't pull the trigger, and we disagree.  no biggie.

Youre overexaggerating re: the bolded.

 

I agree they should work together, but we are talking end of draft stashes, guys with less than 5% chance to contribute.

 

I agree with Kirwan on the 3 years, but its not a hard and fast rule, particularly when you are placed in a scheme you arent a fit for.  Itd be one thing if it was a straight up trade, future pick for washed up player but its not. It's "drop back 20-25 spots and you still get 2 low grade players in stead of one not as low grade player, knowing none of the three may be particularly useful. Youre spreading the risk with this trade and its a smart move, no matter what team you are.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, SkyBane said:

Lol what risk? The pats essentially traded back out of the 6th to get an extra 7th and guaranteed lb depth. That's no risk, all reward for them.

My point exactly.

[SkyBane]

7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

My point exactly.

Bill is playing the game well today if the Derby reports come to fruition. He will have come away with Van Noy, a Lions 7th, and a Broncos 5th, in exchange for Derby and a 6th today. Winning all around.

[Happy2BeHere]

Anyone calling this a poor trade should just think about how successful BB is..then this trade is more than probable to be a good deal

[SkyBane]

2 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

Anyone calling this a poor trade should just think about how successful BB is..then this trade is more than probable to be a good deal

I don't think anyone would call it a bad deal just on what was given up. He got at worst a backup linebacker in exchange for a ham sandwich. You'll take that most days.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/25/2016 at 5:10 PM, SkyBane said:

Lol what risk? The pats essentially traded back out of the 6th to get an extra 7th and guaranteed lb depth. That's no risk, all reward for them.

 

I never mentioned it was a risk for BB, in fact I am not surprised he did it.  I feel it would explode in th face of our colts to get lower draft choices when we need every one for a 3 year under performing and oft injured guy.  he's a JAG on our LB scrap heap.  and we'd play him hurt because we are so undermanned in the back 7.

 

Bill will get the guy healthy.  Tech him a few specific items he wants handled depending upon down and distance (situational football) and only use him in those  conditions.  It will pay off for the Pats.  I have absolutely zero confidence we could get anything out of the guy except a lower draft pick and wasted roster spot.even if Grigs and Irsay agreed to get him.

 

I really had  no idea who Sio Moore and Nate Irving were a few years ago, and people here got me all charged up on them.  Where are they now?