Bleacher Reports Top 35 OLB

[TKnight24]

We have the Hickman's and McNary's of the Colts to come in and produce...Sheppard can go IMO....just me?

He needs too. Unless he steps it up big time

[lollygagger8]

supposed to be according to who?

He played DE in College and projected as a DE in the draft. 

[mvbighead]

My comment wasn't about them affecting his PT. It's was just about how Buffalo definitely has guys that are great pass rushers across their D-lines. 

 

And FWIW Hughes wasn't a starter for the Bills. He was a situational pass rusher. 

 

You're still missing the point,

 

When a team has Mathis and Freeney, opportunities for playing time shrink significantly for someone playing the same position (IE - Jerry hughes).

 

As far as being a starter, not sure why that point is necessary.  On passing downs, the Bills used Hughes frequently as he was apparently among one of their best pass rushers.  With the Colts, he was at most their third best pass rusher, and that wasn't necessarily because he was a bad player, but he simply had superbly talented players ahead of him.

 

At the end of the day, Jerry Hughes never got a chance in Indy.  The one year he would've had a chance, we got rid of him along with Freeney.  Wjerner is still an unknown to this point, but thus far, we're on the losing end.  We'd have been much better off with Hughes and Ogletree/Te'o than Wjerner and Shepherd.  Wjerner may still prove to be a great player, but last year he wasn't anything special.

[Dustin]

You're still missing the point,

When a team has Mathis and Freeney, opportunities for playing time shrink significantly for someone playing the same position (IE - Jerry hughes).

As far as being a starter, not sure why that point is necessary. On passing downs, the Bills used Hughes frequently as he was apparently among one of their best pass rushers. With the Colts, he was at most their third best pass rusher, and that wasn't necessarily because he was a bad player, but he simply had superbly talented players ahead of him.

At the end of the day, Jerry Hughes never got a chance in Indy. The one year he would've had a chance, we got rid of him along with Freeney. Wjerner is still an unknown to this point, but thus far, we're on the losing end. We'd have been much better off with Hughes and Ogletree/Te'o than Wjerner and Shepherd. Wjerner may still prove to be a great player, but last year he wasn't anything special.

No I'm not missing your point.

[Jason_]

He played DE in College and projected as a DE in the draft. 

 

A lot of players played DE in college, projected as DE in the NFL but wound up playing OLB.  Just because that's how he was "projected" doesn't mean that's what he's "supposed to play."  Our coaching staff, scouts and whoever else put Werner through all of the OLB positional drills and were satisfied enough with how he did that they apparently signed off on spending a first round pick on him.  That's more than good enough for me.

[mvbighead]

No I'm not missing your point.

 

So what is your point?  You seem to be presenting a counter viewpoint, but the problem is that Hughes has a place as a pass rusher in Buffalo.  He didn't in Indy.

[The Peytonator]

Graham from the Eagles is 11 I think and on the trade block, Grigson loves a trade with the Eagles. I wouldn't mind that happening for someone like Brazill or Moala.

 

 

I don't want to trade for him, but he's a free agent next year and I would love to sign him. He's been forced to play second fiddle to Trent Cole and other guys like Barwin that he is definitely better than. Another year of such limited snaps and he'll be ecstatic to get out of Philly. With the Grigson connection I hope we sign him to a cheap deal next year.

[ColtsLegacy]

You're still missing the point,

When a team has Mathis and Freeney, opportunities for playing time shrink significantly for someone playing the same position (IE - Jerry hughes).

As far as being a starter, not sure why that point is necessary. On passing downs, the Bills used Hughes frequently as he was apparently among one of their best pass rushers. With the Colts, he was at most their third best pass rusher, and that wasn't necessarily because he was a bad player, but he simply had superbly talented players ahead of him.

At the end of the day, Jerry Hughes never got a chance in Indy. The one year he would've had a chance, we got rid of him along with Freeney. Wjerner is still an unknown to this point, but thus far, we're on the losing end. We'd have been much better off with Hughes and Ogletree/Te'o than Wjerner and Shepherd. Wjerner may still prove to be a great player, but last year he wasn't anything special.

Give me a break. Jerry Hughes played 628 snaps for the Colts in 2012 in his "natural 3-4" and he was still largely the invisible man.

I also find it funny that Jerry never got enough playing time to show what he could do in 3 years in Indy (though he sucked when he did play) yet you seem pretty quick to be underwhelmed with the rookie Bjeorn Werner (hold the j).

Don't you think if Jerry showed the coaches anything or if the coaches believed in him they would have found playing time for him? Of course Freeney and Mathis were going to be the top 2 guys but DE is an exhausting position that needs relief, so if Hughes showed any ability as a pass rusher he would have been used much more often to give Freeney and Mathis breathers. Teams do not often just draft players in the first round and give up on them. There's usually a reason (ie, extreme suckatude). Look how long we stuck with Trent Richardson last year even though he couldn't run through a paper wall and we had superior RBs behind him.

Something was clearly wrong with Hughes in Indy. Two regimes didn't like him -- one drafted him in the 1st round and rarely played him, the other played him more and then traded him away, for a pretty awful LB, after an underwhelming season.

Tl;dr: Jerry Hughes just absolutely blew in Indy and acting like Captain Hindsight because he had a good season in Buffalo does not change that fact.

[Superman]

Give me a break. Jerry Hughes played 628 snaps for the Colts in 2012 in his "natural 3-4" and he was still largely the invisible man.

I also find it funny that Jerry never got enough playing time to show what he could do in 3 years in Indy (though he sucked when he did play) yet you seem pretty quick to be underwhelmed with the rookie Bjeorn Werner (hold the j).

Don't you think if Jerry showed the coaches anything or if the coaches believed in him they would have found playing time for him? Of course Freeney and Mathis were going to be the top 2 guys but DE is an exhausting position that needs relief, so if Hughes showed any ability as a pass rusher he would have been used much more often to give Freeney and Mathis breathers. Teams do not often just draft players in the first round and give up on them. There's usually a reason (ie, extreme suckatude). Look how long we stuck with Trent Richardson last year even though he couldn't run through a paper wall and we had superior RBs behind him.

Something was clearly wrong with Hughes in Indy. Two regimes didn't like him -- one drafted him in the 1st round and rarely played him, the other played him more and then traded him away, for a pretty awful LB, after an underwhelming season.

Tl;dr: Jerry Hughes just absolutely blew in Indy and acting like Captain Hindsight because he had a good season in Buffalo does not change that fact.

 

Jerry Hughes had a decent year as a backup pass rusher in 2012. Even that production would have been better than what Sheppard gave us in 2013.

 

It's not hindsight to say that Hughes would have contributed for us last season. Not 10 sacks worth, most likely, but he would have been our second best pass rusher, without a doubt.

[ColtsLegacy]

Jerry Hughes had a decent year as a backup pass rusher in 2012. Even that production would have been better than what Sheppard gave us in 2013.

It's not hindsight to say that Hughes would have contributed for us last season. Not 10 sacks worth, most likely, but he would have been our second best pass rusher, without a doubt.

I do agree that'd I'd rather have had the bad Indy version of Jerry Hughes than the awful Sheppard but at the time it seemed like a decent trade. And yes, by default Hughes would have been our 2nd best pass rusher in 2013.

[lollygagger8]

A lot of players played DE in college, projected as DE in the NFL but wound up playing OLB.  Just because that's how he was "projected" doesn't mean that's what he's "supposed to play."  Our coaching staff, scouts and whoever else put Werner through all of the OLB positional drills and were satisfied enough with how he did that they apparently signed off on spending a first round pick on him.  That's more than good enough for me.

 

That still doesn't mean he's not playing out of position per se. They have him putting both hands in the dirt to try to help him adjust getting off the ball better when he's not standing up. 

[Jason_]

That still doesn't mean he's not playing out of position per se. They have him putting both hands in the dirt to try to help him adjust getting off the ball better when he's not standing up. 

 

It doesn't mean he IS playing out of position either.  Every 3-4 edge rusher puts his hands in the dirt from time to time.  

[mvbighead]

Give me a break. Jerry Hughes played 628 snaps for the Colts in 2012 in his "natural 3-4" and he was still largely the invisible man.

I also find it funny that Jerry never got enough playing time to show what he could do in 3 years in Indy (though he sucked when he did play) yet you seem pretty quick to be underwhelmed with the rookie Bjeorn Werner (hold the j).

Don't you think if Jerry showed the coaches anything or if the coaches believed in him they would have found playing time for him? Of course Freeney and Mathis were going to be the top 2 guys but DE is an exhausting position that needs relief, so if Hughes showed any ability as a pass rusher he would have been used much more often to give Freeney and Mathis breathers. Teams do not often just draft players in the first round and give up on them. There's usually a reason (ie, extreme suckatude). Look how long we stuck with Trent Richardson last year even though he couldn't run through a paper wall and we had superior RBs behind him.

Something was clearly wrong with Hughes in Indy. Two regimes didn't like him -- one drafted him in the 1st round and rarely played him, the other played him more and then traded him away, for a pretty awful LB, after an underwhelming season.

Tl;dr: Jerry Hughes just absolutely blew in Indy and acting like Captain Hindsight because he had a good season in Buffalo does not change that fact.

 

Captain hindsight? Hardly.  He played 628 snaps... that's wonderful.  How many of those were 3rd and long?  I can only imagine it wasn't very many as we had two superior players in the same position ahead of him who were proven commodities.  And those two players were, for a good amount of time, superior to the majority of players in the LEAGUE at that time.

 

I dunno, but I have a hard time getting down on a guy who doesn't get put in on downs where he can play to his strengths.  He's was giving Mathis and Freeney breaks, but by and large it was when other teams were running it down our throats.

 

All I can say is, while I was underwhelmed by Hughes, I figured we'd at least be smart enough to let Freeney walk and then truly give him an opportunity to seize the pass rushing role opposite Mathis, something he hadn't had the chance to do during his years here.  Instead, we trade him out and use our 1st rounder on a replacement with question marks about burst and speed, which is something Mathis has in spades and Hughes was something of a clone of Mathis in terms of physical attributes (not talent).

 

I have no problem with the Walden as he is more regarded as an edge setter.  But to use a 1st to replace Hughes just seemed *ic.  We had Hughes for 2 more years, and could have added 1 of 2 very solid ILB candidates to provide us a better run stopping presence.

 

For what it's worth, none of this was hindsight.  I've more or less felt this way, but followed the "Grigson knows what he is doing" mantra.  I just don't feel like Hughes was ever put in a position here to succeed.  When we absolutely needed a pass rushing presence, it was always Freeney and Mathis.  Hughes was always going to be an afterthought until one of those two fell off or left.  Freeney finally gets his walking papers, and we oust Hughes the same offseason. Never made sense to me.

 

I still hope Grigson is right about Werner, but I just don't feel like the entire series of moves made that much sense.

[Jindrake]

Captain hindsight? Hardly.  He played 628 snaps... that's wonderful.  How many of those were 3rd and long?  I can only imagine it wasn't very many as we had two superior players in the same position ahead of him who were proven commodities.  And those two players were, for a good amount of time, superior to the majority of players in the LEAGUE at that time.

 

I dunno, but I have a hard time getting down on a guy who doesn't get put in on downs where he can play to his strengths.  He's was giving Mathis and Freeney breaks, but by and large it was when other teams were running it down our throats.

 

All I can say is, while I was underwhelmed by Hughes, I figured we'd at least be smart enough to let Freeney walk and then truly give him an opportunity to seize the pass rushing role opposite Mathis, something he hadn't had the chance to do during his years here.  Instead, we trade him out and use our 1st rounder on a replacement with question marks about burst and speed, which is something Mathis has in spades and Hughes was something of a clone of Mathis in terms of physical attributes (not talent).

 

I have no problem with the Walden as he is more regarded as an edge setter.  But to use a 1st to replace Hughes just seemed *ic.  We had Hughes for 2 more years, and could have added 1 of 2 very solid ILB candidates to provide us a better run stopping presence.

 

For what it's worth, none of this was hindsight.  I've more or less felt this way, but followed the "Grigson knows what he is doing" mantra.  I just don't feel like Hughes was ever put in a position here to succeed.  When we absolutely needed a pass rushing presence, it was always Freeney and Mathis.  Hughes was always going to be an afterthought until one of those two fell off or left.  Freeney finally gets his walking papers, and we oust Hughes the same offseason. Never made sense to me.

 

I still hope Grigson is right about Werner, but I just don't feel like the entire series of moves made that much sense.

[lollygagger8]

It doesn't mean he IS playing out of position either.  Every 3-4 edge rusher puts his hands in the dirt from time to time.  

[Jason_]

 

the irony is I thought about asking you the exact same question.  I think some people are just dead set on not liking the Werner pick but the only reason they can come up with to back their opinion is that "he was supposed to be a DE, not an OLB"

[Gavin]

I do agree that'd I'd rather have had the bad Indy version of Jerry Hughes than the awful Sheppard but at the time it seemed like a decent trade. And yes, by default Hughes would have been our 2nd best pass rusher in 2013.

Sporting Charts has Hughes at 603 snaps http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/player-defensive-snap-count-stats/2013/ (If they are accurate)

 

Robert Mathis at 840 snaps

 

Hughes got a sack every 60.3 pass rush attempts

 

Mathis every 42 pass rush attempts

 

Given that pace Hughes would have had 14 sacks if he would have had 840 snaps played.....Also keep in mind Mathis had a career year....What Mathis did last year was nowhere near a regular occurence. Hughes had a fantastic year last year, Anyone who watched Hughes at TCU with an objective eye who knew what they were looking at saw Hughes had some elite talent in the form of an elite first step BUT outside of that elite first step he was very very raw, He did not wrap up the ball carrier consistently, Lacked pass rush moves and lacked strength.....By no means should he have been a 1st round pick...He was a player that given proper coaching and plenty of consistent on field time to hone those skills had the potential to pay off big. He was exceptionally agile coming out of college...Play well in a 2 point stance....Was a bit undersized for 4-3 DE...But Polian....Likely knowing that drafted him anyway because he probably fell in love with his potential...but Jerry...being as raw as he was had to get the consistent time to develop....especially with him being drafted out of position...Meanwhile you have Mathis and Freeney still putting up very good sack #'s....so are you going to take either off the field consistently for a raw rookie just to give him some consistent playing time? No...of course not....your going to go with 2 players that have gotten the job done time and time again......Unless you were willing to trade one of them for some draft pick or picks and go with the raw rookie who has elite raw talent.