Zone Read Offense. Future?

[NewEra]

Well, defenses had plenty of blueprints from not only Vick but from Newton as well, and yet they still could not stop these three rookies (second-year guy in Kaep's case) from getting to the playoffs. And none of them run the wild cat, so it's a moot point. Coming up and destroying the quarterback will result in penalties like we saw this year when Griffin put up his hands to prove that he no longer had the ball and defensive players were still hitting him. Blowing up boys will only warrant penalties and benchings. The days of the statue passer are changing. We even saw guys like PM and Brady running for first downs this year lol. Defenses could not stop the quarterbacks this year, and if they adjust, well, so will the offenses.

If I'm a DC I wouldn't mind some penalties here and there to rattle the qb and make his more skittish. Same with a pocket passer. You smoke him a few times even after be gets rid of the ball it will start coming out a lot faster which in turn can cause some Int's or 3 and outs

[Qwiz]

If I'm a DC I wouldn't mind some penalties here and there to rattle the qb and make his more skittish. Same with a pocket passer. You smoke him a few times even after be gets rid of the ball it will start coming out a lot faster which in turn can cause some Int's or 3 and outs

It can also lead to much shorter field and field goals, red zone appearances, and easy TDs if you have the right RBs. Handing the ball off and getting hit is much different than passing and getting hit, but if the lateness is obvious in both, and especially if the QB mentions it to the refs, the offense will get a lot of calls going their way. If I'm not mistaken a lot of those 15-yarders would mean automatic first downs as well.

[NewEra]

Well they'll be bringing in their back ups ala griffin. Point is, qb's are not going to last long

[Qwiz]

Well they'll be bringing in their back ups ala griffin. Point is, qb's are not going to last long

Griffin was the only one that got hurt, and it was on a passing play. These brand of quarterbacks are going to keep getting stronger and more durable, just as the DE and LB positions have evolved too. The days of the standard passer are over.

[NewEra]

Griffin was the only one that got hurt, and it was on a passing play. These brand of quarterbacks are going to keep getting stronger and more durable, just as the DE and LB positions have evolved too. The days of the standard passer are over.

He got hurt scrambling down the field. We'll just agree to disagree. They've been trying to change the position for years, guess what? Hasn't changed...

[Qwiz]

He got hurt scrambling down the field. We'll just agree to disagree. They've been trying to change the position for years, guess what? Hasn't changed...

 No he didn't. He was behind the line of scrimmage. As for your second statement, well that explains why that guy playing QB for San Fran is in the Super Bowl. You're right. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[NewEra]

No he didn't. He was behind the line of scrimmage. As for your second statement, well that explains why that guy playing QB for San Fran is in the Super Bowl. You're right. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Wrong, he got hurt in the Balt game running down field. Good try though. Guess what, kaep was a fill in for a damn good team. Remember that dilfer guy? Yeah, he won one too. And people forget they got off to a really good record with that other turd Smith.

[Qwiz]

Wrong, he got hurt in the Balt game running down field. Good try though. Guess what, kaep was a fill in for a damn good team. Remember that dilfer guy? Yeah, he won one too. And people forget they got off to a really good record with that other turd Smith.

He came back, if you don't recall, and played good football until he was injured in the Seattle game. Kaepernick is a darn good player on a darn good team, ala Brady, Rodgers. It's not just the team. Give credit where credit is due. Smith has come into his own, and was doing pretty well for a player that had changed offenses every single year since coming into the league. As your username indicates...it's time for a new era.

[Balzer40]

Wrong, he got hurt in the Balt game running down field. Good try though. Guess what, kaep was a fill in for a damn good team. Remember that dilfer guy? Yeah, he won one too. And people forget they got off to a really good record with that other turd Smith.

 

 

Thats right, People don't want to admit that he was hurt on a running play. People have been saying the pocket passing QB was on their way out since Randall Cunningham came in the league. The day the option QB takes over the NFL is the day that I stop being a fan of the NFL. I doubt I will have to worry about it though.

[Qwiz]

Thats right, People don't want to admit that he was hurt on a running play. People have been saying the pocket passing QB was on their way out since Randall Cunningham came in the league. The day the option QB takes over the NFL is the day that I stop being a fan of the NFL. I doubt I will have to worry about it though.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The injury that everyone wants to talk about is the one that he suffered in the playoffs. That is the one that was serious, not his other one. It was a fumble on a passing play, and there were like 13 different threads created to talk about him and how he was never going to play again in the General section. I'm quite sure you remember it.

[Balzer40]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The injury that everyone wants to talk about is the one that he suffered in the playoffs. That is the one that was serious, not his other one. It was a fumble on a passing play, and there were like 13 different threads created to talk about him and how he was never going to play again in the General section. I'm quite sure you remember it.

 

 

Dude, everybody with a brain cell knows that the torn ACL was a result of the 1st injury he suffered when Ngata nailed him. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

BTW, I won't need to worry about the door because it won't happen.

[dw49]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The injury that everyone wants to talk about is the one that he suffered in the playoffs. That is the one that was serious, not his other one. It was a fumble on a passing play, and there were like 13 different threads created to talk about him and how he was never going to play again in the General section. I'm quite sure you remember it.

 

 

Dude, everybody with a brain cell knows that the torn ACL was a result of the 1st injury he suffered when Ngata nailed him. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

 

No he missed a game and limped through the rest of the season because the Ngata injury had nothing to do with the surgery he subsequently had.

[NewEra]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. The injury that everyone wants to talk about is the one that he suffered in the playoffs. That is the one that was serious, not his other one. It was a fumble on a passing play, and there were like 13 different threads created to talk about him and how he was never going to play again in the General section. I'm quite sure you remember it.

Oh you mean the Injury he already had from that running play was made more serious. I know right. Im sure there will be another great black hope to revolutionize the qb position. Get back with me when that happens.

[Qwiz]

Dude, everybody with a brain cell knows that the torn ACL was a result of the 1st injury he suffered when Ngata nailed him. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Injuries like this happen to every player. An ignored sprain could get worse as more hits are piled on. Fact of the matter is, he came back and won two more divisional games to get his team to the playoffs, and gave his team a lead against an excellent defense before getting knocked out of the game. If you're saying he was injured greatly from a hit by Ngata between all that then I shudder to think what Griffin would have done if he was completely healthy.

And I have quite a lot of brain cells, actually.  

[Qwiz]

Oh you mean the Injury he already had from that running play was made more serious. I know right. Im sure there will be another great black hope to revolutionize the qb position. Get back with me when that happens.

Black hope? Wth are you talking about? It's not just a black QB thing and I'm surprised that you are taking this there. The NFL is already being revolutionized regardless of whether "old timers"  like you like it or not. Griffin will be back next season, as will Newton, Kaep, Wilson. Get your popcorn ready for the future.

[Balzer40]

Injuries like this happen to every player. An ignored sprain could get worse as more hits are piled on. Fact of the matter is, he came back and won two more divisional games to get his team to the playoffs, and gave his team a lead against an excellent defense before getting knocked out of the game. If you're saying he was injured greatly from a hit by Ngata between all that then I shudder to think what Griffin would have done if he was completely healthy.

And I have quite a lot of brain cells, actually.  

 

 

Well if you don't recognize that if that hit from Ngata don't happen, RG3 probably don't tear the ligiments the rest of the way going after a botched snap, then I truly wonder about your brain cell capacity.

[NewEra]

Black hope? Wth are you talking about? It's not just a black QB thing and I'm surprised that you are taking this there. The NFL is already being revolutionized regardless of whether "old timers" like you like it or not. Griffin will be back next season, as will Newton, Kaep, Wilson. Get your popcorn ready for the future.

I'll have it ready. Will be watching Luck, Rogers, Brady, manning, flacco, Ryan, light the. Boys up. You kids think you in enter the wheel or hh ought of something new. Guess what, been there done that.

[Qwiz]

Well if you don't recognize that if that hit from Ngata don't happen, RG3 probably don't tear the ligiments the rest of the way going after a botched snap, then I truly wonder about your brain cell capacity.

And if Griffin hadn't gone after a botched snap, won throughout the playoffs and won in the Super Bowl, then there would be no mention of any kind of injury. The Haloti Ngata hit is irrelevant. It wasn't the one that put him out, he played games after being hit. No ifs ands or buts.

[Qwiz]

I'll have it ready. Will be watching Luck, Rogers, Brady, manning, flacco, Ryan, light the. Boys up. You kids think you in enter the wheel or hh ought of something new. Guess what, been there done that.

Flacco? . Well that window is gonna be short, because we saw guys like Manning, Brady, and Ryan see playoff exits in pretty dramatic fashion, the latter getting his team ran all over. Same with Rodgers. Griffin, Newton, Wilson, 12, Dalton, heck, even Flacco...they will be the future of the NFL. Passing isn't going to be just the staple. Look for runners too. Sorry that you can't come to grips with that. I have no idea what enter the wheel or hh ought is, but whatever.

[Balzer40]

And if Griffin hadn't gone after a botched snap, won throughout the playoffs and won in the Super Bowl, then there would be no mention of any kind of injury. The Haloti Ngata hit is irrelevant. It wasn't the one that put him out, he played games after being hit. No ifs ands or buts.

 

 

I'm done with you. You are embarrassing yourself because you can't connect two points that are completely relevant. Reply if you want, but I can't waste my time with you.

[braveheartcolt]

Someone clearly didn't watch Griffin play before and after the Ngata hit. It is totally absurd that people think he was good as new when he came back. Is there something else going on with these Griffin, Wilson, Newton, Kaepernick threads that I'm being naive about?

[Qwiz]

I'm done with you. You are embarrassing yourself because you can't connect two points that are completely relevant. Reply if you want, but I can't waste my time with you.

I've been done with you for months now, ironically enough.

[NewEra]

Flacco? . Well that window is gonna be short, because we saw guys like Manning, Brady, and Ryan see playoff exits in pretty dramatic fashion, the latter getting his team ran all over. Same with Rodgers. Griffin, Newton, Wilson, 12, Dalton, heck, even Flacco...they will be the future of the NFL. Passing isn't going to be just the staple. Look for runners too. Sorry that you can't come to grips with that. I have no idea what enter the wheel or hh ought is, but whatever.

Lol, me either. Stupid phone and tiny keys. Was you young guys think you e invented the wheel or something new. But lost its touch with a repost, lol

[Balzer40]

I've been done with you for months now, ironically enough.

  :dancing: Whoopty doo!!!

[Qwiz]

Lol, me either. Stupid phone and tiny keys. Was you young guys think you e invented the wheel or something new. But lost its touch with a repost, lol

Lol those darn cell phones. Never good typing instruments lol.

[Matugi]

The two feathers you have stuck in your head are damaging your brain. Best all round skill set and talent based on what? Please show me the list of 'talent and skills sets' you are comparing against, and also tell me how you are comparing these.

 

If you use passer rating etc, I will laugh my head off.

 

RG3 is a very talented QB for sure, but you really need to stop believing in all the hype.

 

And as a die hard Colts fan, I'm not even sure how high Luck rates at the moment, I just know the signs are looking very positive indeed.

Please stop strawmanning.

How in God's name does passer rating relate at all to skill set? I'm not talking about stats or metrics or anything: I'm talking about God's gift.

RG3 is clearly the best athlete of all of them. That is not debatable. Both Luck and Wilson are good athletes but not on the same planet as Griffin.

RG3 also clearly has the best arm strength. Luck floats many of his sideline passes, and while Wilson has an okay arm, he tends to throw high, mainly stemming from having to compensate for his height, and this leads to weak passes.

RG3 has the best upper body mechanics. His release is the quickest and most compact, and he's excellent at adjusting arm angles. Wilson has a slow release and benefits from being able to scramble and move outside the pocket. Luck has an okay release and usually has a good arm angle but really struggles to adjust it in a crowded pocket.

It's arguable who has the best field vision because none of the quarterbacks have really shined in that department. Luck struggles to find his checkdown, Wilson does not read a defense quickly and has to buy time, and RG3 does not progres through his reads quickly enough and usually settles on the second at most. All three leave a lot to be desired here.

All three also struggle with lower body mechanics. Luck's base gets really sloppy and he loses velocity on his passes. RG3 does not follow through with his hips enough and tends to throw off his back foot, leading to high passes (he compensates by having a really strong arm). Wilson gets happy feet.

Luck clearly has the best short-to-intermediate accuracy and displays mostly good ball placement. RG3 isn't a slouch here but tends to place balls, especially slants, a little behind and a little high. Wilson is solid here as well.

RG3 has the best deep accuracy of the bunch. He consistently fits it into tight windows and rarely underthrows. Luck struggles with deep accuracy because he does not have the arm to consistently throw the receiver open, and so he ends up throwing a lot of A) back shoulder passes which are good in and of themselves and B) underthrow deep passes, which get picked off. Wilson does not have great deep accuracy and a lot of his throws float to the sideline. His receives consistently make great catches.

As of right now, Luck is obviously the most football smart, but Wilson and RG3 are not far behind.

However, taking everything into account, RG3 has the best skill set of any of them.

[Balzer40]

^^^  ^^^

 

 

Ah, to be 12 again.

[Qwiz]

Ah, to not have a counter argument again. ^^^^^

[Matugi]

Ah, to not have a counter argument again. ^^^^^

That is one recurring thing I notice here compared to other boards I frequent: when you present a legitimate argument that is hundreds of words long, the average length of response is one line and is never related to what was actually posted.

[Balzer40]

That is one recurring thing I notice here compared to other boards I frequent: when you present a legitimate argument that is hundreds of words long, the average length of response is one line and is never related to what was actually posted.

 

 

All you presented was your opinion and everybody already knows it so spare everybody your constant drivel about your boytoy. Everybody is sick of the argument.

[Qwiz]

That is one recurring thing I notice here compared to other boards I frequent: when you present a legitimate argument that is hundreds of words long, the average length of response is one line and is never related to what was actually posted.

Yep...another one I've noticed quite frequently is tl;dr. Or, the most common escape route, "troll". At least you got a sentence response .

[Matugi]

All you presented was your opinion and everybody already knows it so spare everybody your constant drivel about your boytoy. Everybody is sick of the argument.

And an ad-hominem attack is conclusive evidence that the opposite of what I posted is true how?

[Balzer40]

And an ad-hominem attack is conclusive evidence that the opposite of what I posted is true how?

 

 

I don't care about trying to disprove what you said, nobody else does. You don't come to a rival forum and tell fans that your QB is better because of this, that , and this and expect them to agree with YOUR OPINION!!!. This is something that a certain other poster on this forum has trouble grasping too which is why he has found his way to my ignore list so I don't accidentally read the nonsense that spews from his keyboard. This argument has played itself out(a long while ago) and this thread isn't even about RG3. We know your opinion, I'm glad you are infatuated with your QB, but Colts fans aren't, and most couldn't care less about him at all.

[Qwiz]

And an ad-hominem attack is conclusive evidence that the opposite of what I posted is true how?

He mad.   :clap:

[Matugi]

I don't care about trying to disprove what you said, nobody else does. You don't come to a rival forum and tell fans that your QB is better because of this, that , and this and expect them to agree with YOUR OPINION!!!

Actually, I never said I expect you to agree with my opinion. I suppose I expect some sort of intelligent counter argument instead of vitriol and logical fallacies galore, but clearly I should temper my expectations. I was, naturally, expecting a circlejerk but not to the degree that some of you berate people with opposing viewpoints.

This argument has played itself out(a long while ago) and this thread isn't even about RG3.

From the OP:

"I want to ask everyone what they think of the Zone Read Offenses which have made RGIII, Wilson, and Kapernick look so good"

Clearly you are misfounded.

but Colts fans aren't, and most couldn't care less about him at all.

Well then bring that up with the people who start these threads, not with me. I'm just voicing my (unpopular) opinion. I haven't started a single thread on the subject.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I am in no way a dc but in the zone read you do not block someone. The qb reads that player that is not blocked so my question is why doesnt that player just attack instead of waiting. If he attacks the handoff then he could essentially make sure the qb never keeps it because he hits him everytime. Then it would just be another handoff to the running back. I have been thinking about this zone read stuff and I would like to see what you guys and gals come up with on how to stop it.

remeber I am not a dc lol

I was thinking the same way.  just attack the QB.  Never let him run it, and hit him. every time.  The RB will gash you, likely a lot.  but after some time, the Owner/GM will get tired of their franchise QB getting knocked around.  Rest of the D has to very dsiciplined in maintaining their gap assignments.

[Matugi]

I was thinking the same way.  just attack the QB.  Never let him run it, and hit him. every time.  The RB will gash you, likely a lot.  but after some time, the Owner/GM will get tired of their franchise QB getting knocked around.  Rest of the D has to very dsiciplined in maintaining their gap assignments.

The problem is how many times do you think a defender can consistently do this without getting in trouble? With the way the zone-read is run, out of the pistol, it's hard to tell which side the play is going to. So you're already down at least one player in the play and force the other to play a guessing game. The odds are in the offense's favor at this point. From there a DE can easily be manipulated by both the running game, as you've stated, and still the passing game via quick screens over the defender's head, where you'll have one less player in pursuit on that side of the field. The quarterback can also easily run a draw, which you've seen Kaepernick and Wilson run much more than Griffin has because of their elusiveness (compared to Griffin's straight-line speed).

Also, as penalties begin to be acrued, players will be suspended.

It's just not a good idea for a DC to tell his players to hit the quarterback regardless of what the play is.

[Balzer40]

Actually, I never said I expect you to agree with my opinion. I suppose I expect some sort of intelligent counter argument instead of vitriol and logical fallacies galore, but clearly I should temper my expectations. I was, naturally, expecting a circlejerk but not to the degree that some of you berate people with opposing viewpoints.

From the OP:

"I want to ask everyone what they think of the Zone Read Offenses which have made RGIII, Wilson, and Kapernick look so good"

Clearly you are misfounded.

Well then bring that up with the people who start these threads, not with me. I'm just voicing my (unpopular) opinion. I haven't started a single thread on the subject.

 

 

 

The thread was about the read option, and it mentioned the QB's that ran the offense. It didn't state "Who's better? RG3 or Luck'!. It just seems to me that there are a few posters here that only show up in threads that they can somehow diminish Luck or the Colts. The rest of the threads discussing other things remain unclicked on because it wouldn't make sense to disparage Luck or the Colts in them, or to argue which QB is better. I don't mind that fans from other teams frequent our forums, but when their intentions are to play the who's better game, or to insult our team and/or players, then they shouldn't be here. Some do it in a condescending nature which seems to fool a few.

[Matugi]

The thread was about the read option, and it mentioned the QB's that ran the offense. It didn't state "Who's better? RG3 or Luck'!. It just seems to me that there are a few posters here that only show up in threads that they can somehow diminish Luck or the Colts. The rest of the threads discussing other things remain unclicked on because it wouldn't make sense in them to disparage Luck or the Colts in them, or to argue which QB is better. I don't mind that fans from other teams frequent our forums, but when their intentions are to play the who's better game, or to insult our team and/or players, then they shouldn't be here. Some do it in a condescending nature which seems to fool a few.

And what compels you to believe that I diminish your players? I find that many people here have such a linear view of things: if you prop up Griffin, you are automatically claiming that Luck is not the greatest thing since sliced bread and therefore lose your "fan card".

I do not look to disparage any of the quarterbacks: they're all great. I conceded that Luck has some attributes where he is CLEARLY better than Griffin or Wilson, just as there are some where Griffin is better than either of the others. My suppositions do nothing to downplay Luck or Wilson, and to take offense to them, as if I am eviscerating your Chosen One, is ludicrous.

And alas, I was not the one who initially brought up the entire "who's better" argument, so once again you can spew your vitriol elsewhere.

[NewEra]

Oh so in your opinion griffin is the most athletic qb to play. Congrats, didn't keep him healthy. I'll still take my unalthletic goofy no dread no fancy socks wearing Luck over him. And you must be real proud that you spend your time on a football forum writing short novels. Getting out some time and breath the fresh air.