Does Houston have the potential to be the best team in the league?

[Fx Stryker]

Down here in Houston them Oilers were loved dearly and when Bud Adams sold the team fans were really upset that's why the Texans came like 6 years later

The Colts weren't beloved in Baltimore?

You should like a team for a team, not the location. If that were the case I'd either be and Eagle or Steeler fan.

[HtownColt]

The Colts weren't beloved in Baltimore?

How am I suppose to know I live in Houston not Baltimore you tell me if they were loved..My daddy told me all the stories on the Oilers. Bud Adams prematurely agreed to move the Oilers in 95 but his lease wasn't up until 97. Oilers fans were ticked when word got out he prematurely moved the team that fans boycotted the whole 96 season their were only like 20,000 ppl at the games that year. Then Bob McNair came 6yrs later and gave Houston fans what they wanted which was a new football team

[Vance]

Nobody took anybody. If Houston loved the Oilers so much then they would of gave them a new stadium. Just like Indy never took the Colts.

You are clueless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Houston_Oilers

Read up and cure your naiveté. Bud Adams is deservedly hated for what he did.

[Fx Stryker]

You are clueless.

http://en.wikipedia...._Houston_Oilers

Read up and cure your naiveté. Bud Adams is deservedly hated for what he did.

I don't see where I am wrong. Adams wanted a new stadium. If a city can't finacially support a professional team then why do they derserve one? Also the fans gave up on the team because they were moving. That's a great fan base.

Like I said the organization has an obligation to his team. Not a city. The hate the city of Houston has towards the Titans is not compared to the hate of the Colts and Baltimore, but we still have fans there. You're a fan of a team, not a city. If the Colts ever move I'm cheering the Somewhere-town Colts, not the Indy Whoevers.

If you ask me though, I wish it was still the Baltimore Colts.

[Gavin]

You got it, 2008 and 2009 are the years I was talking about when the Chargers were heavy underdogs. Yes many years with the Patriots in the way but that is the way it's supposed to be, the Colts and the Patriots in the best game this side of the Super Bowl for over 10 years. I respect a well coached disciplined team like the Patriots but I don't have to like them. The Chargers have none of that in my opinion and like I said, it's personal and I will never dislike a team more than the San Diego Chargers.

Good points, I just cant seem to make it personal with a team we faced 3 times in 50 or so years now their kicker is another story and his flop job he did a few years ago, I dont remember the year however, I get a little mad every time I see him

[Vance]

I don't see where I am wrong. Adams wanted a new stadium. If a city can't finacially support a professional team then why do they derserve one? Also the fans gave up on the team because they were moving. That's a great fan base.

Like I said the organization has an obligation to his team. Not a city. The hate the city of Houston has towards the Titans is not compared to the hate of the Colts and Baltimore, but we still have fans there. You're a fan of a team, not a city. If the Colts ever move I'm cheering the Somewhere-town Colts, not the Indy Whoevers.

If you ask me though, I wish it was still the Baltimore Colts.

I am now dumber for reading your post.

[Fx Stryker]

I am now dumber for reading your post.

Good movie, but my words are the truth. I'm curious to why you think they aren't?

[Vance]

Good movie, but my words are the truth. I'm curious to why you think they aren't?

Words do not become truth purely because they are spoken.

Wait, I forgot I'm dumb...OK...durr?

[Fx Stryker]

Words do not become truth purely because they are spoken.

Wait, I forgot I'm dumb...OK...durr?

What do you buy? Texans apparel. You don't buy Houston apparel. Your money goes to the Texans organization, not the city of Houston. The Texans have no obligation to Houston. They are merely a tenant to the city. This was settled when the city of Baltimore sued the Colts. They claimed the organization belonged to the city. The NFL said no. The Colts were only renters to the city.

[subvet]

Good movie, but my words are the truth. I'm curious to why you think they aren't?

Because every team that moves suffers from losing many hard core fans who remain bitter for far too long. Teams leaving a home city are disliked in every sport, not just the NFL, when I was a kid fans still hated the Dodgers for moving to LA from Brooklyn so right or wrong you're not going to make everyone happy when a team moves....except Cleveland who got to keep the name and the colors......

[Vance]

What do you buy? Texans apparel. You don't buy Houston apparel. Your money goes to the Texans organization, not the city of Houston. The Texans have no obligation to Houston. They are merely a tenant to the city. This was settled when the city of Baltimore sued the Colts. They claimed the organization belonged to the city. The NFL said no. The Colts were only renters to the city.

You are so far off the road you might as well let the car crash and collect the insurance check.

[subvet]

What do you buy? Texans apparel. You don't buy Houston apparel. Your money goes to the Texans organization, not the city of Houston. The Texans have no obligation to Houston. They are merely a tenant to the city. This was settled when the city of Baltimore sued the Colts. They claimed the organization belonged to the city. The NFL said no. The Colts were only renters to the city.

Not to be argumentative but that isn't true in Green Bay......

[Fx Stryker]

You are so far off the road you might as well let the car crash and collect the insurance check.

I'm not wrong. You just don't want to accept the reality that the Oilers didn't belong to Houston. The NFL even agrees with that.

Not to be argumentative but that isn't true in Green Bay......

How so?

[HtownColt]

I don't see where I am wrong. Adams wanted a new stadium. If a city can't finacially support a professional team then why do they derserve one? Also the fans gave up on the team because they were moving. That's a great fan base.

Like I said the organization has an obligation to his team. Not a city. The hate the city of Houston has towards the Titans is not compared to the hate of the Colts and Baltimore, but we still have fans there. You're a fan of a team, not a city. If the Colts ever move I'm cheering the Somewhere-town Colts, not the Indy Whoevers.

If you ask me though, I wish it was still the Baltimore Colts.

No he agreed to move the team in 95 his lease on the astrodome wasn't up until after the 97 season I'm pretty sure the mayor would've agreed to a new stadium by then but he took it in his own hands and agreed to move the team years before his lease was up which would tick any teams fan base off and the only way to voice their frustration was to not go to games. You want to move the team early then we not going to support you simple as that. But Bob McNair brought a team back to Houston shortly after so Houston fans can't be that bad actually their one of the best if you ask me actually texans fans rank #9 http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

[Vance]

I'm not wrong. You just don't want to accept the reality that the Oilers didn't belong to Houston. The NFL even agrees with that.

You have this annoying trend of things going way over your head. Let's drop this and you can continue to think you're right, because my energy is shot.

[Fx Stryker]

No he agreed to move the team in 95 his lease on the astrodome wasn't up until after the 97 season I'm pretty sure the mayor would've agreed to a new stadium by then but he took it in his own hands and agreed to move the team years before his lease was up which would tick any teams fan base off and the only way to voice their frustration was to not go to games. You want to move the team early then we not going to support you simple as that. But Bob McNair brought a team back to Houston shortly after so Houston fans can't be that bad actually their one of the best if you ask me

They were suppose to move in '98, but because of dismal fan support in '96they agreed to let the team leave a year early because they didn't want to see the team suffer anymore.

I'm sure Adams would have stayed because the city did offer like $200M or so after Adams announced he was moving, but fans didn't support the team. So Adams felt it was clear it was time to move.

[Vance]

No he agreed to move the team in 95 his lease on the astrodome wasn't up until after the 97 season I'm pretty sure the mayor would've agreed to a new stadium by then but he took it in his own hands and agreed to move the team years before his lease was up which would tick any teams fan base off and the only way to voice their frustration was to not go to games. You want to move the team early then we not going to support you simple as that. But Bob McNair brought a team back to Houston shortly after so Houston fans can't be that bad actually their one of the best if you ask me actually texans fans rank #9 http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

Why are you even trying with Fx? You should do something more important with your time, like teaching your dog theoretical physics. It'll get done faster.

[subvet]

How so?

The team is publicly owned so the majority of the shareholders live in Green Bay and Wisconsin, it will never move.

[Vance]

FX PM me if you want a conversation, just a warning it might get ugly (in case you have sensitive eyes).

[HtownColt]

What do you buy? Texans apparel. You don't buy Houston apparel. Your money goes to the Texans organization, not the city of Houston. The Texans have no obligation to Houston. They are merely a tenant to the city. This was settled when the city of Baltimore sued the Colts. They claimed the organization belonged to the city. The NFL said no. The Colts were only renters to the city.

Having a NFL team in your city bring in plenty of money from tourism and creating a massive amount of jobs man it's so much the city gets from having NFL team I don't know where to start. I'll start by giving you this link and let you read for yourself

http://www.ehow.com/list_6764597_benefits-having-sport-franchises-cities_.html

[HtownColt]

They were suppose to move in '98, but because of dismal fan support in '96they agreed to let the team leave a year early because they didn't want to see the team suffer anymore.

I'm sure Adams would have stayed because the city did offer like $200M or so after Adams announced he was moving, but fans didn't support the team. So Adams felt it was clear it was time to move.

Thats because he prematurely agreed to move the team in 95' which led to the boycott in 96' and the departure a year early in 97'

[Jules]

If you ask me though, I wish it was still the Baltimore Colts.

*sigh*

Mods, is this ban worthy?

[Fx Stryker]

*sigh*

Mods, is this ban worthy?

Sorry, I'm not an Indy fan. I'm a Colts fan. To add to it, I'm not a Midwest small town boy. I like East coast cities. It's the type of area I grew up in. It appeals to my liking.

Having a NFL team in your city bring in plenty of money from tourism and creating a massive amount of jobs man it's so much the city gets from having NFL team I don't know where to start. I'll start by giving you this link and let you read for yourself

http://www.ehow.com/...es-cities_.html

Okay, so you benefit from your tenant. Still doesn't mean they have to be binned with you at the hip. You just happen to gain from them. So you do what ever to keep them the happiest you can. They want a new stadium, you do what you can. Houston couldn't financially provide that. Bud Adams looked out for his company.

[Jules]

Sorry, I'm not an Indy fan. I'm a Colts fan.

Okay well to each their own I suppose. However, it does give me some new perspective for the future.

My "second teams" are outside of Indiana so to speak. Lakers usually in the NBA and the Packers in the NFL. Sometimes the Panthers too since I have relatives there and don't mind if they have success.

[Fx Stryker]

FX PM me if you want a conversation, just a warning it might get ugly (in case you have sensitive eyes).

If it can't be said in the open then it's a waste of my time.

[HtownColt]

Sorry, I'm not an Indy fan. I'm a Colts fan. To add to it, I'm not a Midwest small town boy. I like East coast cities. It's the type of area I grew up in. It appeals to my liking.

Okay, so you benefit from your tenant. Still doesn't mean they have to be binned with you at the hip. You just happen to gain from them. So you do what ever to keep them the happiest you can. They want a new stadium, you do what you can. Houston couldn't financially provide that. Bud Adams looked out for his company.

Smh it's pointless trying to get across to you on this subject. First you say the city don't gain from the team then I show you how they gain then you say something else and if houston couldn't provide that why did they get a new team in record time

[Vance]

If it can't be said in the open then it's a waste of my time.

Well like Htown says it's pointless. And just for the record while he's making fine points, I was coming at it from a different, yet totally understandable by everyone but you apparently, direction.

[Fx Stryker]

Smh it's pointless trying to get across to you on this subject. First you say the city don't gain from the team then I show you how they gain then you say something else and if houston couldn't provide that why did they get a new team in record time

The city doesn't directly gain from the Texan assets which is what I've been saying this whole time. If they could provide the stadium why didn't they do it for their beloved Oilers?

Well like Htown says it's pointless. And just for the record while he's making fine points, I was coming at it from a different, yet totally understandable by everyone but you apparently, direction.

Everyone? You mean the two Houstonians that either are biased because they were hurt from the move, or heard their father, which I'm guessing is also biased, about the move.

[HtownColt]

The city doesn't directly gain from the Texan assets which is what I've been saying this whole time. If they could provide the stadium why didn't they do it for their beloved Oilers?

If Providing jobs for people because of the team existence in the city isn't benefitting the city then I don't know what is. And bud Adams took it upon hisself and agreed to move the team in 95' when his lease wasn't up until 98' I'm not too good with math but that's 3 years early. The city of Houston was obviously going to give him the Money but not 3 years early. If we wasnt going to give him the money we wouldn't have a team in Houston going on 11yrs now as we speak. Man it feels like I'm repeating myself

[Fx Stryker]

If Providing jobs for people because of the team existence in the city isn't benefitting the city then I don't know what is. And bud Adams took it upon hisself and agreed to move the team in 95' when his lease wasn't up until 98' I'm not too good with math but that's 3 years early. The city of Houston was obviously going to give him the Money but not 3 years early. If we wasnt going to give him the money we wouldn't have a team in Houston going on 11yrs now as we speak. Man it feels like I'm repeating myself

First learn the difference between direct and indirect.

They didn't want to provide the money because of the oil collapse. He agreed to move the team in '98, not '95, '96, or '97. The deal may have been made in '95, but that was after Houston said he wasn't getting a new stadium. Also I read the article wrong, Nashville put up the $200M, Houston never even offered. He was going to play out his years in Houston. If Irsay wanted to he can set a deal to move the team in 2035 if he wants because the Colts are only tenants until '34 I think. (Years can be wrong)

Bud was at no wrong doing.If he was Congress would have sided with Houston not Bud. If you ever move, please when you do only try and find a new home after your final day in your current residence.

[HtownColt]

First learn the difference between direct and indirect.

They didn't want to provide the money because of the oil collapse. He agreed to move the team in '98, not '95, '96, or '97. The deal may have been made in '95, but that was after Houston said he wasn't getting a new stadium. He was going to play out his years in Houston. If Irsay wanted to he can set a deal to move the team in 2035 if he wants because the Colts are only tenants until '34 I think. (Years can be wrong)

Bud was at no wrong doing.If he was Congress would have sided with Houston not Bud. If you ever move, please when you do only try and find a new home after your final day in your current residence.

If you agree to a deal in 95 and you not going leave until 98 its still a deal to move. When fans hear that you get ticked nobody said he did any wrong doing he just ticked fans off and rightfully so for prematurely agreeing to move. They benefit from having the team in their city you wanna be all technical with directly and indirectly who cares they still benefit from the team being there. Bob McNair came and revived Houston back to football 6yrs later and now the Texans have a top ten attendance and miraculously came up with a new stadium. If Bud Adams wouldve played out his full lease he would have a new stadium but he wanted to agree to move 3 years early now the Texans are doing better than him and probably bringing in more money his loss..I can careless ima die hard Colts fan I just gotta stand up for my city

[Fx Stryker]

If you agree to a deal in 95 and you not going leave until 98 its still a deal to move. When fans hear that you get ticked nobody said he did any wrong doing he just ticked fans off and rightfully so for prematurely agreeing to move. They benefit from having the team in their city you wanna be all technical with directly and indirectly who cares they still benefit from the team being there. Bob McNair came and revived Houston back to football 6yrs later and now the Texans have a top ten attendance and miraculously came up with a new stadium. If Bud Adams wouldve played out his full lease he would have a new stadium but he wanted to agree to move 3 years early now the Texans are doing better than him and probably bringing in more money his loss..I can careless ima die hard Colts fan I just gotta stand up for my city

The whole point was you only directly support the team, not the city. You are a fan of a team, not a city. Location should play no role in which team you like. If they were truly Oiler fans, and not just "homers" then they would be Titan fans today. So yes, directly and indirectly play a major part in this argument.

It's not like Bud is against Houston, He owned that ABA Houston basketball team for like four years.

To add to it, I guarantee if many fans knew Peyton wasn't going to be a Colt this year they would have tried to support him and watch him live and in-person as much as they could have 2010. Not give up on the team. Houston fans should have enjoyed their final years with the team, and not give up on them. Because when it comes down to it you should be a fan of a team, not a city's team.

I highly doubt you and I are die-hard Colts fans because they play in Indy.

[HtownColt]

The whole point was you only directly support the team, not the city. You are a fan of a team, not a city. Location should play no role in which team you like. If they were truly Oiler fans, and not just "homers" then they would be Titan fans today. So yes, directly and indirectly play a major part in this argument.

It's not like Bud is against Houston, He owned that ABA Houston basketball team for like four years.

To add to it, I guarantee if many fans knew Peyton wasn't going to be a Colt this year they would have tried to support him and watch him live and in-person as much as they could have 2010. Not give up on the team. Houston fans should have enjoyed their final years with the team, and not give up on them. Because when it comes down to it you should be a fan of a team, not a city's team.

I highly doubt you and I are die-hard Colts fans because they play in Indy.

Houstonians did support the team its just when the owner comes out and says were moving the team prematurely of course they are not going to support that owner anymore. Your not about to take our money and our team from us. It don't work like that.

I don't know anything about Indy but the Colts Pacers and the Indy 500. If the colts move it wouldn't affect me because I don't live there I don't go to the colts stadium(which is a dream of mine). That would hurt the colts fans that live there and that is just taken from them I would be ticked too but I don't live there so that part of it won't affect me I would still love the Colts just not the owner anymore and if the city gets a new team of course you going to follow the new team and try and kill the team that left your city every time they play

[Fx Stryker]

Houstonians did support the team its just when the owner comes out and says were moving the team prematurely of course they are not going to support that owner anymore. Your not about to take our money and our team from us. It don't work like that.

I don't know anything about Indy but the Colts Pacers and the Indy 500. If the colts move it wouldn't affect me because I don't live there I don't go to the colts stadium(which is a dream of mine). That would hurt the colts fans that live there and that is just taken from them I would be ticked too but I don't live there so that part of it won't affect me I would still love the Colts just not the owner anymore and if the city gets a new team of course you going to follow the new team and try and kill the team that left your city every time they play

Well I guess that's where I differ from people. I would still go and watch my team even if I knew they were moving.

[KarlKuffs]

As many have explained to you, you are the one being ridiculous. Go back to page 1 and look at my FIRST post. Did I say "HECK YEAH we'll be the top team!" No. Guess what, my whole post was based around potential problems we could have. As I've also stated, deep down you want the Texans to do poorly, for your own gratification, I've seen it in your posts. You = Texans hater. You're bitter about something, I don't know what, maybe the pride we show now that we're a contender, I don't really care. It's one thing to discuss openly the future success or failure of a team, but it's another thing entirely when one person already had a supreme bias against them.

The reason I know this is because you have never conceded that we might do well next year. You have it cemented in your brain from self-propoganda that we will crash and burn.

Random, biased Texan fans on a message board thinking i'm "ridiculous" for thinking their team will finish with a record that is completely realistic for them to finish with is of no concern to me whatsoever. And go back and read this thread, as there are several people who think YOU are being "ridiculous". So don't act like i'm in the minority in thinking the Texans might finish around .500 next year. Regardless, your feelings don't make my points any less valid, aren't going to change what I think will happen or what actually will happen next year, and they certainly don't make your idealized prognostication any more likely to happen than mine.

And if it makes you feel better, I see a ceiling of 11 wins for the Texans if everything goes right, and a floor of 5 wins if things completely fall apart. Neither of those scenarios are likely to happen, though, so that's why I picked you to finish 7-9 (8-8 is also a strong possibility). It's called being "realistic".

[KarlKuffs]

I am not sure any of us ever stated the Texans were going to be a dream team. Just that the potential is there to be a top team. Now I have also stated that injuries etc. could kill them again and I often say IF their D carries over from last year. Of course we never know what can happen in any given season. Right? But, at the same time it is the offseason and I try to sometimes start discussions because basically there is not much else to talk about outside of Gonzo getting cut/Luck almost being signed/how many games will the Colts win next year part 500/Irsay's strange tweets and Manning having a healthy bowel movement at the Denver complex and how strong it looked to reporters who caught a top secret glimpse.

This is correct.

And quite simply, I DON'T think the bolded things will happen, and that is why I think they will finish 7-9.

-I think they will be injury prone. Again. Matt Schaub has played 2 full seasons out of 5 for Houston and is coming off a serious foot injury. And he was already very immobile before that injury. He is a question mark. Andre Johnson missed significant time last year due to injury, and will be entering his 10th season with ALOT of tread on his tires. So it is not out of line to think he might slow down this season. They also lost 40% of their offensive line. How the replacements perform is a question mark. And finally, they've always struggled to find a legit #2 receiver to put opposite Dre. Once again that was not addressed this offseason, and once again that is a question mark. Biased Texan fans THINK that they will be batting 1.000 with all of these questions. I DON'T think that.

-I don't think their D will carry over from last year (just like in 2009 when they had a Top 5 defense from weeks 4-17, and then proceeded to have one of the worst defenses in the league in 2010 with the same players). I think this because A) They suffered key personnel losses on defense and B) they won't be playing the #32 ranked offense 2 times, the #30 ranked offense 2 times, the #22 ranked offense, the #21 ranked offense, and the #20 ranked offense, as they did last season. Does anyone remember the one elite offense they faced last year and what happened? New Orleans, who put up 40 points and 450 yards of offense. This year they face New England, Detroit, Green Bay, Chicago with Cutler, Marshall and Forte. Not to mention there is now an entire season's worth of film for opponents to study and adjust to what Wade Phillips has done with his Houston defense.

-Last year they played the second easiest schedule in the NFL. This year they play a first place team's schedule.

-Being that they won the division, they will now be targeted by opponents as a "big game"

These are all real and valid areas of concern and/or items that can cause them to lose games. So someone explain what is so utterly astonishing about my thought process in thinking they might lose 8-9 games?

[Fx Stryker]

And go back and read this thread, as there are several people who think YOU are being "ridiculous".

Everyone is to him, but hey we CARE so much for the Texans because they have been such stiff competition for 11 years now.

[Qwiz]

Everyone is to him, but hey we CARE so much for the Texans because they have been such stiff competition for 11 years now.

You care because you know that we will be beating you for the next 5+ years. You are just too scared to admit it.

[Qwiz]

This is correct.

And quite simply, I DON'T think the bolded things will happen, and that is why I think they will finish 7-9.

-I think they will be injury prone. Again. Matt Schaub has played 2 full seasons out of 5 for Houston and is coming off a serious foot injury. And he was already very immobile before that injury. He is a question mark. Andre Johnson missed significant time last year due to injury, and will be entering his 10th season with ALOT of tread on his tires. So it is not out of line to think he might slow down this season. They also lost 40% of their offensive line. How the replacements perform is a question mark. And finally, they've always struggled to find a legit #2 receiver to put opposite Dre. Once again that was not addressed this offseason, and once again that is a question mark. Biased Texan fans THINK that they will be batting 1.000 with all of these questions. I DON'T think that.

-I don't think their D will carry over from last year (just like in 2009 when they had a Top 5 defense from weeks 4-17, and then proceeded to have one of the worst defenses in the league in 2010 with the same players). I think this because A) They suffered key personnel losses on defense and B) they won't be playing the #32 ranked offense 2 times, the #30 ranked offense 2 times, the #22 ranked offense, the #21 ranked offense, and the #20 ranked offense, as they did last season. Does anyone remember the one elite offense they faced last year and what happened? New Orleans, who put up 40 points and 450 yards of offense. This year they face New England, Detroit, Green Bay, Chicago with Cutler, Marshall and Forte. Not to mention there is now an entire season's worth of film for opponents to study and adjust to what Wade Phillips has done with his Houston defense.

-Last year they played the second easiest schedule in the NFL. This year they play a first place team's schedule.

-Being that they won the division, they will now be targeted by opponents as a "big game"

These are all real and valid areas of concern and/or items that can cause them to lose games. So someone explain what is so utterly astonishing about my thought process in thinking they might lose 8-9 games?

New Orleans blew out nearly everyone they faced last year. The difference is, we didn't lose 62-7. Once again, you cannot base the future off of the past. You can continue living in the past if you want, but our line is much better than the Colts line at this point. The Bears will be easy prey with that sorry O-line they have, and I believe that we can beat the Patriots and that defense of their's as well. Film? How much film of Chuck Pagano's defense in Baltimore did the league have to study? And guess what? THEY STILL DOMINATED. We will be targeted by AFC South opponents....Wow. That happens every year. The rest of the league could care less that we won the South this past season, they are more concerned about their own divisions. Just put aside your Colts bias, look past these "flaws" and you will see a Super Bowl contender, just like the analysts and the rest of the AFC does.

[Vance]

Man it's time to give up on this hopelessness Qwiz...you see, I can admit that we might do poorly next year. Injuries, poor play, who knows what can happen. But there's every reason for us to be successful, and this guy Karl can't admit it as even a possibility. It's just blindness. It's a bad disease.