last in afc south

[OLD FAN MAN]

4 hours ago, SR711 said:

Ballard probably gets an extra year from Irsay of this retool because of the AR injury so I still think he is here for a while.  

 

At this point, he is who he is: an average GM who was/is overhyped and played up by the media (both local and national) and whose accolades are nowhere near what his results, resume support.

 

I think it is very telling that a hallmark of his time is repeatedly the teams season being undermined in multiple years by an area of the roster that he skimped on. 

 

 

his bargain bin roster filling is clearly not working

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Ballard has been overated by this board.  He needed to go a long time ago. 

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

A normal person would never have thought that Steichen wanted JT (at that price).  But a normal person never would have thought that SS would be calling plays like Frank Reich.  I guess now we know why SS wanted JT.  LOL

 

/s.

 

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yea. I don't get Taylor extension. Moss was doing well and since he has come back, it seems like rb by committee. U pay that 14 million for a back to split time? I still don't think he is a good pass catcher and Moss appeared to be on the field more in those situations.⁰

I would never say whether Steichen wanted JT or not, as a matter of absolutes. 

 

His words behind a mic isn't going to be revealing either, because if Irsay was driving the bus and wanted some kind...any kind...of star power on the Colts (and the media treats JT like a star) and caved and signed JT....SS is going to publicly support it.

 

I would look to see how JT is used compared to Moss to gauge probably how SS feels about the price difference measuring talent difference.  With Kamara and McCaffrey, we see them not come off the field much because they are a threat in both the running game and passing game.  If SS switches out JT for Moss in certain situations (other than a breather), then bets are that SS thinks of JT the same as Frank did.  Limitations in the talent.  Which means limitations to the price. 

 

If you want to know how much SS "wanted" JT (at a price), I would watch how he uses him.  IOW, maybe JT stays in the game more often and is used in the passing game (much) more often than Frank used him.

[John Waylon]

When we pinned the “first in the AFC south” thread the % hit the fan. 
 

Maybe if we pin this one….

 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

I would never say whether Steichen wanted JT or not, as a matter of absolutes. 

 

His words behind a mic isn't going to be revealing either, because if Irsay was driving the bus and wanted some kind...any kind...of star power on the Colts (and the media treats JT like a star) and caved and signed JT....SS is going to publicly support it.

 

I would look to see how JT is used compared to Moss to gauge probably how SS feels about the price difference measuring talent difference.  With Kamara and McCaffrey, we see them not come off the field much because they are a threat in both the running game and passing game.  If SS switches out JT for Moss in certain situations (other than a breather), then bets are that SS thinks of JT the same as Frank did.  Limitations in the talent.  Which means limitations to the price. 

 

If you want to know how much SS "wanted" JT (at a price), I would watch how he uses him.  IOW, maybe JT stays in the game more often and is used in the passing game (much) more often than Frank used him.

didnt see that yesterday. Saw more of rb by committee

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

didnt see that yesterday. Saw more of rb by committee

IOW, just like Frank?

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

IOW, just like Frank?

When i saw Taylor yesterday, I just saw another Ballard blunder. What GM extends his running back to a 14 mill contract when the guy starting is 2nd in the league in rushing and a  more complete back? Not as dynamic but a back who can play in any situation.    

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When i saw Taylor yesterday, I just saw another Ballard blunder. What GM extends his running back to a 14 mill contract when the guy starting is 2nd in the league in rushing and a  more complete back? Not as dynamic but a back who can play in any situation.    

I think Ballard probably did it to accommodate Irsay, who I think was getting pressure from the media about letting an NFL star languish on the sidelines.  I don't think JTs salary is that big of a deal for the next three years.  Ballard probably feels like its going to take at least two years before we are realistically going to compete in the AFC.

 

I'm more concerned about what he does with Moss at the end of the season than JTs salary for the next 3 years.  I could see Ballard letting moss walk over price, and I think that would be a mistake.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

16 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

just wait a few more seasons and see what happens.

Just like the Cubs

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Just like the Cubs

Cubs just won a WS a few years ago. They have been good overall over the last decade. I am confused??

[FanFromtheWasteland]

14 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree that they probably won't do it but I would. Let us say that Richardon comes back and does well and then gets hurt again? Let's say they go like 8 and 9 or whatever but they realize they cannot go into 2025 with Richardson. They would not be picking that high but in need of another qb. That would leave them another year of not having the guy. This whole experiment could take up another 3 years to get another top guy if needed. Does that make sense? I would take a qb next year. Let's say Richarson balls out and u got Maye or another guy on the bench. I bet his trade value is still high. We also don't know how Richardson's recovery will go. It may not fully heal. 

I would say more like 5 years

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Ballard probably did it to accommodate Irsay, who I think was getting pressure from the media about letting an NFL star languish on the sidelines.  I don't think JTs salary is that big of a deal for the next three years.  Ballard probably feels like its going to take at least two years before we are realistically going to compete in the AFC.

 

I'm more concerned about what he does with Moss at the end of the season than JTs salary for the next 3 years.  I could see Ballard letting moss walk over price, and I think that would be a mistake.

 

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Ballard probably did it to accommodate Irsay, who I think was getting pressure from the media about letting an NFL star languish on the sidelines.  I don't think JTs salary is that big of a deal for the next three years.  Ballard probably feels like its going to take at least two years before we are realistically going to compete in the AFC.

 

I'm more concerned about what he does with Moss at the end of the season than JTs salary for the next 3 years.  I could see Ballard letting moss walk over price, and I think that would be a mistake.

I think of it this way. If Taylor did not get an extension, you have way more flexibility. You let it play out and sign the most complete back after the season. With having both Moss and Taylor in the same back field, I felt that Taylor was not going to get the snaps to increase his value. Plus, here you are now a team who is free falling. You could have used him as trade bait because he could have been a rental for a team like KC or the Bills. Now, you cannot trade him because  he is being paid 14 million over 3 years. Just plain stupid and unnecessary.  I felt Irsay would have taken a step back but it makes me wonder if Steichen will lost patience with this franchise.

[DougDew]

41 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 

I think of it this way. If Taylor did not get an extension, you have way more flexibility. You let it play out and sign the most complete back after the season. With having both Moss and Taylor in the same back field, I felt that Taylor was not going to get the snaps to increase his value. Plus, here you are now a team who is free falling. You could have used him as trade bait because he could have been a rental for a team like KC or the Bills. Now, you cannot trade him because  he is being paid 14 million over 3 years. Just plain stupid and unnecessary.  I felt Irsay would have taken a step back but it makes me wonder if Steichen will lost patience with this franchise.

I agree.  I thought signing JT when we had Moss made little sense to me as a football move.  As star power, I understand. 

 

I don't know that his trade value would be any different.  JT wasn't going to take the field unless he had a new contract...IMO....so any trade partner would have to incur some long term guaranteed commitment...devaluing his price to us.

[Moosejawcolt]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  I thought signing JT when we had Moss made little sense to me as a football move.  As star power, I understand. 

 

I don't know that his trade value would be any different.  JT wasn't going to take the field unless he had a new contract...IMO....so any trade partner would have to incur some long term guaranteed commitment...devaluing his price to us.

 

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  I thought signing JT when we had Moss made little sense to me as a football move.  As star power, I understand. 

 

I don't know that his trade value would be any different.  JT wasn't going to take the field unless he had a new contract...IMO....so any trade partner would have to incur some long term guaranteed commitment...devaluing his price to us.

I think u r the rare person that actually supports my take on the Colts lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 

I think u r the rare person that actually supports my take on the Colts lol

It is because he is rare like you. 

[smittywerb]

17 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

ballards roster now has sole possession of last place in our division. his defense has now allowed the most points in the nfl. delayed gratification!!!!

 

I think it’s a combination of things that has led to where we are now:

 

- ARs injury:  AR looked good and him going down for the year took away one of 2 dynamic players on the offense.  It hasn’t derailed the team on offense luckily but I can’t help but think some of these games AR would get us a W.  Especially the ones with turnovers from the QB position.

 

- CB injuries:  we knew going into the year the defenses achilles heel would be pass defense.  Losing rodgers, not having brents,  not having good depth (ballards fault), and the scheme (Gus fault), has made the problem worse.  
 

- Rookie HC:  I like Shane and what I’m about to say is not me saying he’s bad, because I think he’s good.  But he’s learning on the fly.  He’s made some mistakes this year and called some unbalanced games.  Take a field goal here, punt there, run some more this game, and we might have one or two more wins.  As I said in another thread, as long as he learns from the mistakes and continue to develop, he’ll be fine. 
 

now to Ballard:  He hasn’t built the best roster, but he hasn’t built the worst roster either.  I will say, not going out and getting a true number one, not getting elite talent to improve the pass rush, not ensuring depth at the corner position and trying to improve it after losing rodgers, I place solely on him because his lack of action and urgency when it comes to team needs at prime positions is something that has been consistent with him.

 

So do I think us being in last place is all his fault, no.  But he holds some of the blame.   

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, smittywerb said:

 

I think it’s a combination of things that has led to where we are now:

 

- ARs injury:  AR looked good and him going down for the year took away one of 2 dynamic players on the offense.  It hasn’t derailed the team on offense luckily but I can’t help but think some of these games AR would get us a W.  Especially the ones with turnovers from the QB position.

 

- CB injuries:  we knew going into the year the defenses achilles heel would be pass defense.  Losing rodgers, not having brents,  not having good depth (ballards fault), and the scheme (Gus fault), has made the problem worse.  
 

- Rookie HC:  I like Shane and what I’m about to say is not me saying he’s bad, because I think he’s good.  But he’s learning on the fly.  He’s made some mistakes this year and called some unbalanced games.  Take a field goal here, punt there, run some more this game, and we might have one or two more wins.  As I said in another thread, as long as he learns from the mistakes and continue to develop, he’ll be fine. 
 

now to Ballard:  He hasn’t built the best roster, but he hasn’t built the worst roster either.  I will say, not going out and getting a true number one, not ensuring depth at the corner position and trying to improve it after losing rodgers, I place solely on him because his lack of action and urgency when it comes to team needs at prime positions is something that has been consistent with him.

 

So I think us being in last place is all his fault, no.  But he holds some of the blame.   

Ballard: Not having a legit passrush threat after spending how many draft picks is also squarely on Ballard. 

[smittywerb]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Ballard: Not having a legit passrush threat after spending how many draft picks is also squarely on Ballard. 

I’ll edit the post, forgot to include that too.  I hate that he has so much faith in players like Tyquan and dayo.  We waste so much time waiting for the “late bloomers” that we miss out on good players.  I really wonder how many “late bloomers” have the colts experienced since Ballard.  Probably not that many.

[ADnum1]

Its entirely possible that SS could have "input" on the next GM.

 

Maybe Shane knows a hotshot Eagles talent scout that helped the Eagles get alot of their talent.

 

Irsay could go with the recommendation unless Irsay has a better pick.

 

But it won't look like Shane picked the GM.

[DougDew]

54 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is because he is rare like you. 

Honest question.  In your observation, what is the incremental difference between JT and Moss?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Honest question.  In your observation, what is the incremental difference between JT and Moss?

JT's speed, at any time if he gets a full stride ahead, he can break a run for a long TD. The carry Moss got yesterday when he went for 41 yards, had that been JT, he would have been gone. That would have put us up 27-21. Instead the next play Stache throws an INT, they go down and score and we are down 28-20 instead. To answer your question, it is JT's break away speed, he is a HR hitter. Don't try and tell me that isn't important because that could be a difference of us scoring 7 instead of 3 on certain drives.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

JT's speed, at any time if he gets a full stride ahead, he can break a run for a long TD. The carry Moss got yesterday when he went for 41 yards, had that been JT, he would have been gone. That would have put us up 27-21. Instead the next play Stache throws an INT, they go down and score and we are down 28-20 instead. To answer your question, it is JT's break away speed, he is a HR hitter. Don't try and tell me that isn't important because that could be a difference of us scoring 7 instead of 3 on certain drives.

How many times in a season do you expect that difference to show up?  I thought Moss broke a long run this year too?  

[BProland85]

18 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

Levis went off 4 TD passes but he is still a * 

Levis also went against zero pass rush and a bad secondary in ATL. Let’s see what he looks like against a good defense. I’m not buying into Levis. He has the tools but so did Wentz. 

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Levis also went against zero pass rush and a bad secondary in ATL. Let’s see what he looks like against a good defense. I’m not buying into Levis. He has the tools but so did Wentz. 

True, but noone is crowning him I think. Just pointing out he had a really good first game and a few people in here can’t stand it and are about to explode because of it. The pettiness is real. 

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

True, but noone is crowning him I think. Just pointing out he had a really good first game and a few people in here can’t stand it and are about to explode because of it. The pettiness is real. 

I believe ATL has a top 10 defense so far this season, and their secondary is pretty good. 

 

Levis did a lot of old fashioned behind the center snap play action and not the RPO play action.  He struggled a lot in 3rd down because TEN ran it up the gut a lot on 1st and 2nd down.  So it was more than Levis doing well, it was an older school type of offense that allowed the long TD passes.

 

All initial bursts of NFL goodness have a way of coming down to earth over time.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

True, but noone is crowning him I think. Just pointing out he had a really good first game and a few people in here can’t stand it and are about to explode because of it. The pettiness is real. 

There are already a handful of people in here that said, see we should have took Levis instead of AR. Based on 1 game, that is pretty petty and just really comical.

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I believe ATL has a top 10 defense so far this season, and their secondary is pretty good. 

 

Levis did a lot of old fashioned behind the center snap play action and not the RPO play action.  He struggled a lot in 3rd down because TEN ran it up the gut a lot on 1st and 2nd down.  So it was more than Levis doing well, it was an older school type of offense that allowed the long TD passes.

 

All initial bursts of NFL goodness have a way of coming down to earth over time.

Eh, I’m not ready to call RPO/running QBs over and done with. 
 

Personally I do prefer the Mahomes-mold for a QB. Pocket passer with mobility to extend plays. I think the run option is too heavily emphasized on some teams. I’d prefer if Steichen focused on developing AR as a pocket passer and let him use his feet to extend plays rather than the called QB run plays. 

[Mighty Blue]

Wait…what?

 

 

Irsay, if you aren’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes!

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Eh, I’m not ready to call RPO/running QBs over and done with. 
 

Personally I do prefer the Mahomes-mold for a QB. Pocket passer with mobility to extend plays. I think the run option is too heavily emphasized on some teams. I’d prefer if Steichen focused on developing AR as a pocket passer and let him use his feet to extend plays rather than the called QB run plays. 

My comment was to describe what the TEN offense looked like, and what the bomb TD passes looked like.  Very few were the typical short 10 yard slants and run for 60 yards.  There was a lot of air yards and hang time to three of the passes.  Looked very old school, especially with Henry running up the gut.

 

The more modern stuff, like the wide passes to the boundary for WRs screens got stuffed a lot.  So the 3rd down conversion rate was probably low because those plays, whether called on 1st through 3rd down, got thrown for losses a lot.  

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There are already a handful of people in here that said, see we should have took Levis instead of AR. Based on 1 game, that is pretty petty and just really comical.

Everyone had preferences on draft night. How is it petty when the people who wanted Levis point that out?

 

I wanted anyone but Young because of his size.

I initially wanted Stroud, but soured on him (unfairly, probably) because of that S2 score. I was good with any of Stroud, AR or Levis though. 
 

How is pointing out Stroud has had a historic rookie season so far and/or Levis had a good first game petty? It’s a stark contrast to our out-for-the-season rookie QB. 

[Solid84]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Eh, I’m not ready to call RPO/running QBs over and done with. 
 

Personally I do prefer the Mahomes-mold for a QB. Pocket passer with mobility to extend plays. I think the run option is too heavily emphasized on some teams. I’d prefer if Steichen focused on developing AR as a pocket passer and let him use his feet to extend plays rather than the called QB run plays. 

I’m guessing by your reaction I misunderstood your point? 
 

Did you mean Levis will have average/bad games as well this season?

[Solid84]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

My comment was to describe what the TEN offense looked like, and what the bomb TD passes looked like.  Very few were the typical short 10 yard slants and run for 60 yards.  There was a lot of air yards and hang time to three of the passes.  Looked very old school, especially with Henry running up the gut.

 

The more modern stuff, like the wide passes to the boundary for WRs screens got stuffed a lot.  So the 3rd down conversion rate was probably low because those plays, whether called on 1st through 3rd down, got thrown for losses a lot.  

Yeah I gathered from your reaction I misunderstood your post. My bad. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Everyone had preferences on draft night. How is it petty when the people who wanted Levis point that out?

 

I wanted anyone but Young because of his size.

I initially wanted Stroud, but soured on him (unfairly, probably) because of that S2 score. I was good with any of Stroud, AR or Levis though. 
 

How is pointing out Stroud has had a historic rookie season so far and/or Levis had a good first game petty? It’s a stark contrast to our out-for-the-season rookie QB. 

You are missing the point, why are people pointing out that Stroud has been good after only 7 games, or that Levis should have been the pick based on 1 game? Then those same people tear down AR because the guy is injured - that is even the bigger issue I have. Lets at least see what Stroud's numbers and record is at the end of the season before we start calling him an All-Pro  . Lets see Levis play more than 1 game before we think he is Dan Marino. If you can't see my point here, then here we go again with our usual crap.

 

People in here and fans and media around the world were saying Brock Purdy was the 2nd coming of Joe Montana after 10 freakin' games. Look at the last 3 weeks. I am not saying anyone is good, bad, or great until I get a huge sample size. Like maybe 2 full seasons = 32 games. That is just me and that is common sense. 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I’m guessing by your reaction I misunderstood your point? 
 

Did you mean Levis will have average/bad games as well this season?

I assume he will.  

 

We have an entire thread on AR vs Stroud vs Young.   I agree with you, people are interested in the performance of all three.  I guess because Levis was not drafted in first round makes him ineligible for discussion.  But since he was the only QB where a decision with him or AR was made, I can see how some might see talking about Levis' good game is simply offensive by itself. 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are missing the point, why are people pointing out that Stroud has been good after only 7 games, or that Levis should have been the pick based on 1 game? Then those same people tear down AR because the guy is injured - that is even the bigger issue I have. Lets at least see what Stroud's numbers and record is at the end of the season before we start calling him an All-Pro  . Lets see Levis play more than 1 game before we think he is Dan Marino. If you can't see my point here, then here we go again with our usual crap.

 

People in here and fans and media around the world were saying Brock Purdy was the 2nd coming of Joe Montana after 10 freakin' games. Look at the last 3 weeks. I am not saying anyone is good, bad, or great until I get a huge sample size. Like maybe 2 full seasons = 32 games. That is just me and that is common sense. 

 I think you are one of few, if not the only one, exaggerating stuff.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I assume he will.  

 

We have an entire thread on AR vs Stroud vs Young.   I agree with you, people are interested in the performance of all three.  I guess because Levis was not drafted in first round makes him ineligible for discussion.  But since he was the only QB where a decision with him or AR was made, I can see how some might see talking about Levis' good game is simply offensive by itself. 

For all the people who think I hate Levis, I copied a MOD telling them to include Levis to the title of rookie QB's. Yeah, that is real hate (ROLLS EYES) 

[ADnum1]

It could get worse for Colts fans.

 

What if Levis comes out in the Titans game and throws for 350+ yards and 3 touchdowns and torches the Colts defense ?

 

What will the reaction on this board be ?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

 I think you are one of few, if not the only one, exaggerating stuff.

 

I think you are way wrong. Lenny's thread alone of dissing AR was the most ridiculous thread maybe ever in here. Why is not ok for me to say I think AR will be better than all the rookies when he gets healthy, but it is perfectly fine for people in here to say Stroud or Levis will be? Makes no sense. It is like my opinion doesn't matter. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

For all the people who think I hate Levis, I copied a MOD telling them to include Levis to the title of rookie QB's. Yeah, that is real hate (ROLLS EYES) 

Did you start that thread?  I think all 4 would be a better discussion.

 

Come to think of it,  TEN didn't even activate Levis until this week I think.  So there would have been no reason to discuss him.  But now there seems to be.

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are missing the point, why are people pointing out that Stroud has been good after only 7 games, or that Levis should have been the pick based on 1 game? Then those same people tear down AR because the guy is injured - that is even the bigger issue I have. Lets at least see what Stroud's numbers and record is at the end of the season before we start calling him an All-Pro  . Lets see Levis play more than 1 game before we think he is Dan Marino. If you can't see my point here, then here we go again with our usual crap.

 

People in here and fans and media around the world were saying Brock Purdy was the 2nd coming of Joe Montana after 10 freakin' games. Look at the last 3 weeks. I am not saying anyone is good, bad, or great until I get a huge sample size. Like maybe 2 full seasons = 32 games. That is just me and that is common sense. 

Because Stroud HAS been good? How is that wrong?

Levis had a good first game? How is that wrong?

 

Some wanted those guys and see their performances as vindication. It is what it is. No one is crowning them or calling them all-pro. You’re the one calling them Stauback and Marino, no one else. 

I wonder, did Montana not have bad games? Whether you want to admit it or not Purdy has been really good. 

 

Calm down. Your homer is showing…