maybe a semi rebuild so who do you think are keepers

[lilolemoi]

This is a new thread, so I’ll repeat what I said in the other rebuild thread:

 

Buckner, Flowers, Rodgers, Woods, Stewart, Pittman, Pierce, Speed, Gilmore, Jackson, McLeod, Ngakoue, Odenigbo, Okereke, Ryan — I’d keep these players next year. Anyone else can be cut or traded. Total rebuild with a new GM.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

Surprised Pat hasn't somehow "suggested" that to Rodgers on his show yet.

 

I have thought about that many times. However, I did hint to fans that Rodgers has a home in Nashville and if the Packers want to move on, just like the Titans traded A J Brown away, they might trade for Rodgers just before the draft if they sense an opening. Last I saw, he could still do roll outs, has a gun of an arm, makes good reads and can work well with RBs. The one place where the Packers have failed him is having good TEs, something the Titans have a good history of getting productivity out of. Not to mention, the run support and defense.

[throwing BBZ]

20 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

hey guys, i was just sitting around, taking some vitamins.

 

I figured it out.

 

Aaron Rodgers will be our next QB. 

 

 By "vitamins" you talkin' uppers, downers, greenies, speckled pups, reds, ludes, ink blots, window payne, haha! 

  I think another cogger QB might finish Irsay off! 

[Superman]

5 hours ago, Mackrel829 said:

Honestly, I don't even think a semi-rebuild is necessary. We need to get the highest possible pick we can this year and trade future picks to move up to get our QB if necessary. 

 

It's not like this team is old and vastly overpaid in multiple positions. We're not the Saints or the Rams. We have good, young NFL at a number of positions, most of whom are paid at market rate or below.

 

If we get a good QB on a rookie contract for the next 4 years, there's no reason we can't compete. The roster and salary situations do not necessitate a rebuild of any kind. Go take a swing on our next franchise QB and continue to build the roster around him.

 

Exactly.

 

If you want to trade away some players who will probably be coming out of their prime quickly, that's one thing. Even if you want to reallocate cap resources, that's a surgical operation, not demolition. Tearing down the roster completely isn't necessary, nor is it likely to happen.

 

I do think we need to make some strategic changes to address specific positions of importance. We need to be better at LT, CB, WR, Edge, and of course QB. So if moving one of our best players helps us make that happen, do what needs to be done. 

[throwing BBZ]

$$ wise we are likely moving away from Moore, MO. and Kelly.

Ngauke probably also.

  Campbell should run for the door, but i hope we keep him.

 Pretty much want to keep everyone else that is getting playing time.

[throwing BBZ]

$$ wise we are likely moving away from Moore, MO. and Kelly.

Ngauke probably also.

  Campbell should run for the door, but i hope we keep him.

 Pretty much want to keep everyone else that is getting playing time.

 Except RYAN!!!

[colts89]

We aren't getting an entire rebuild for sure despite what some online GMs think. This roster has way too many good players to justify that, especially the defense.

 

Some key parts might get traded to move up in the draft, but that's as much as I see happening.

 

I do expect to see a lot of clearing of the current OL though. Only person I think are safe from that are Nelson and maybe Braden. We'll see though.

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, colts89 said:

We aren't getting an entire rebuild for sure despite what some online GMs think. This roster has way too many good players to justify that, especially the defense.

 

Some key parts might get traded to move up in the draft, but that's as much as I see happening.

 

I do expect to see a lot of clearing of the current OL though. Only person I think are safe from that are Nelson and maybe Braden. We'll see though.

I think you are overlooking Raimann. He has the physical talent, he needs more coaching.  

[ruf]

22 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

This is a new thread, so I’ll repeat what I said in the other rebuild thread:

 

Buckner, Flowers, Rodgers, Woods, Stewart, Pittman, Pierce, Speed, Gilmore, Jackson, McLeod, Ngakoue, Odenigbo, Okereke, Ryan — I’d keep these players next year. Anyone else can be cut or traded. Total rebuild with a new GM.

No JT DL or Q?

[lilolemoi]

1 hour ago, ruf said:

No JT DL or Q?

 

Nope, and I confused Kwity Paye with Kenny Moore upthread. Haven’t seen much of the former all season, so understandable. Same with DL. Knew something was up with the bizarre late life name change and cries for mental health help. Q is worse after his new contract, also probably struggling with injury. RB are a dime a dozen in today’s NFL. JT would be the first player I’d trade. Quit wasting his best years with this team like Hines who moved on to the Bills.

[lilolemoi]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

We need to be better at LT, CB, WR, Edge, and of course QB. 

 

Those are a lot of important positions to fill and it cannot all be done in the draft. Ballard “paying his own” ruined this team.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

Those are a lot of important positions to fill and it cannot all be done in the draft. Ballard “paying his own” ruined this team.

 

No, it cannot all be done in the draft. Like I said, we need to make strategic changes to address those positions.

 

The bolded is sensational wild talk. The reason we aren't good enough at LT, CB, WR, Edge, and QB, is because the players acquired at those positions didn't work, not because we paid good players at other positions. 

 

The formula is the same for every team that relies heavily on the draft. The success of your team is primarily based on your draft results over a prolonged period of time. It doesn't really matter if your cap space is heavily allocated in one way or the other, as long as you draft well you'll have talented players on your roster. And if you find yourself in a situation where your good players are not helping you win enough games, you should make strategic changes to restructure your roster, reallocate your cap spending, and acquire players who will help your team win games. You don't need to tear your entire roster down to accomplish this.

[lilolemoi]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

The reason we aren't good enough at LT, CB, WR, Edge, and QB, is because the players acquired at those positions didn't work, not because we paid good players at other positions. 

 

Fisher walked and you replaced him with a backup and a rookie and grabbed a 37 year old QB in FA. Your QB’s salary this year was paid by the Falcons, and you wasted $3 million on Foles. You traded Rock Ya Sin for Yannick Ngakoue, who’s an ok player but not improving pass rush. At least he’s got sacks. Gilmore is good for another year, then back to the drawing board. Ifeadi Odenigbo was also a good signing, but still doesn’t excuse poor performance from overpaid players at nonessential positions and more holes to fill. Ballard’s reputation as a talent evaluator is way overrated, and you’re better off blowing it all up. Haven’t seen anything from this team that says otherwise. But that’s just my opinion.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Fisher walked and you replaced him with a backup and a rookie and grabbed a 37 year old QB in FA. Your QB’s salary this year was paid by the Falcons, and you wasted $3 million on Foles. You traded Rock Ya Sin for Yannick Ngakoue, who’s an ok player but not improving pass rush. At least he’s got sacks. Gilmore is good for another year, then back to the drawing board. Ifeadi Odenigbo was also a good signing, but still doesn’t excuse poor performance from overpaid players at nonessential positions and more holes to fill. Ballard’s reputation as a talent evaluator is way overrated, and you’re better off blowing it all up. Haven’t seen anything from this team that says otherwise. But that’s just my opinion.

 

You just named a handful of players that you don't like for one reason or another (some of them are entirely irrelevant to the discussion; Nick Foles is a veteran backup on a small salary, there's no reason to even talk about him). Get rid of Pryor, Ryan, Foles, Ngakoue, and Odenigbo in 2023. Does that qualify as a blow up and rebuild? 

 

The bolded seems like a different topic. Ryan is performing poorly and it could be argued he's overpaid, but he doesn't play a non-essential position, so does he fit the narrative? Sounds like you're talking about Nelson and Leonard, and that's a pointless conversation because you're not going to convince me that letting All Pro players walk is a good team building decision.

 

If you want to talk about moving Nelson or Leonard (or any other player at a so-called "non-essential" position) so we can use resources on more essential positions, isn't that covered under 'make strategic changes to address those positions'? In other words, can't we make targeted moves that reallocate resources toward players who will help the team win more games, and can't that be done without "blowing it all up"?

 

Also, if Ballard had hit on players like Turay, Lewis, Campbell, Banogu, Ya-Sin, etc., then wouldn't we be in better shape at some of those essential positions right now? And that's my point: when you pay your own, you still have to hit in the draft, and as time has gone on, it's become obvious that we haven't hit often enough for Ballard's preferred team building strategy to be successful. 

 

Whether Ballard's reputation as a talent evaluator is overrated or not doesn't seem relevant to me. I have my own opinion on his ability to evaluate players, and I don't think it's as extreme in one way or the other as general opinion seems to be. I never hailed Ballard as a stupendous talent evaluator to begin with, and I'm not ready to claim he doesn't know how to evaluate players altogether. 

 

What's more important to me is whether Ballard will make strategic changes to improve the most important positions on the roster. In fact, that applies to anyone who sits in that seat moving forward. 

[RollerColt]

A common answer from Zak Keefer today on the Reddit AMA was that at this point in time the plan is to have Ballard back. Take that for whatever it's worth... 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:15 PM, richard pallo said:

I think Raiman is going to solidify the LT spot by the end of the year.   For me a real full back would be ideal.  Fix RG in FA.  I would trade for Jordan Love.  Get him while we still can.  He’s in the same position Rodgers was in behind Favre.  Rodgers hardly played as well.  He’s paid his dues and is ready to take over a team imo.

I believe that is why they continue to go with Raimann even tough he is struggling. If they can go into the draft knowing they have a LT, it allows them draft flexibility.

[ruf]

7 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I believe that is why they continue to go with Raimann even tough he is struggling. If they can go into the draft knowing they have a LT, it allows them draft flexibility.

that would be good maybe get a RG in the 2nd round or FA

I'm not sure about then the 1st RD pick. i know most wants a qb but what if there is a shutdown cb there or a DE for the taking.