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What's The Real Arguement Against Pey-Luck?


oldunclemark

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Not sure how I feel about the OP question. I am completely open to anything that leads to both long and short term gains for the club, but I'm not convinced the 'both' senario has a chance of happening. If it does happen, that would be great.

It is amusing to me how a couple of you know Manning so well that your posts suggest you have intimate knowledge of his motivations, decision making, financial acumen, and willingness to play for cheap. I like to imagine I have a sense of the man, but I certainly wouldn't claim to know anything about what would compliment him, when and how he plans to retire, how he views his legacy, or what his motivations might be in contract negotiations.

Manning knows he wont play forever and its actually a compliment to him to ask him to groom his successor....and Manning will renegotiate his contract...
Peyton won't play blindly into his 40's like some QB's when they clearly have lost it. When Peyton realizes he can't play the game at a high level anymore, he will step away.
He will retire when it is time and not try to play when his body simply cannot. He wouldn't tarnish his legacy in such a manner.
Manning will sign a cheap incentive-laden deal... He banked $26 mil off Indy last year....

For clarity, unless he has specifically told you, it might help to temper your claims. I'm guessing here, but you most likely don't know any of this for a fact, and building an arguement by asserting these things as truths isn't exactly helping your case. Best case, I'd suggest you'd like to believe these things are true about PM. I could buy that.

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Not sure how I feel about the OP question. I am completely open to anything that leads to both long and short term gains for the club, but I'm not convinced the 'both' senario has a chance of happening. If it does happen, that would be great.

It is amusing to me how a couple of you know Manning so well that your posts suggest you have intimate knowledge of his motivations, decision making, financial acumen, and willingness to play for cheap. I like to imagine I have a sense of the man, but I certainly wouldn't claim to know anything about what would compliment him, when and how he plans to retire, how he views his legacy, or what his motivations might be in contract negotiations.

For clarity, unless he has specifically told you, it might help to temper your claims. I'm guessing here, but you most likely don't know any of this for a fact, and building an arguement by asserting these things as truths isn't exactly helping your case. Best case, I'd suggest you'd like to believe these things are true about PM. I could buy that.

No. he didnt tell me. He and I havent talked..recently

But....I believe he banked $26 mil last year..That's what Mr. Irsay said.

He has structured his deals in the past so his teammates could get paid.

That's public knowledge..Irsay has said that..

..and he wants to finish his career in Indy. He has said that.

....I'm going by what they have said...Its all you can do.

You either accept it or you feel they're lying to you.

You are right, schwammy....I want to accept what they are saying.

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Well tough noogies for Andrew honestly. If some fans find it unfair to Andrew, well life isn't fair. You get your turn when that time comes.

How will Luck feel?
“If I have the opportunity to learn from a guy like that, of course you’re going to take advantage of it,” Luck said at the NFL Scouting Combine. “Absolutely.”

That answer you?

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Not sure how I feel about the OP question. I am completely open to anything that leads to both long and short term gains for the club, but I'm not convinced the 'both' senario has a chance of happening. If it does happen, that would be great.

It is amusing to me how a couple of you know Manning so well that your posts suggest you have intimate knowledge of his motivations, decision making, financial acumen, and willingness to play for cheap. I like to imagine I have a sense of the man, but I certainly wouldn't claim to know anything about what would compliment him, when and how he plans to retire, how he views his legacy, or what his motivations might be in contract negotiations.

For clarity, unless he has specifically told you, it might help to temper your claims. I'm guessing here, but you most likely don't know any of this for a fact, and building an arguement by asserting these things as truths isn't exactly helping your case. Best case, I'd suggest you'd like to believe these things are true about PM. I could buy that.

You may have misread the original post..

I believe I said....If you accepted the first statements (the premise) ....

..why not want both Luck and Manning...?

..as you say..that would be great. I can only agree.!!!

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He has structured his deals in the past so his teammates could get paid.

This has been a topic of discussion in the past. To the best of my understanding, Manning never agreed to take LESS MONEY. He only agreed to let it be spread out differently, freeing up cap room to sign other players. To go from that to an assertion that he will behave a certain way in this negotiation is a mighty big leap.

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This has been a topic of discussion in the past. To the best of my understanding, Manning never agreed to take LESS MONEY. He only agreed to let it be spread out differently, freeing up cap room to sign other players. To go from that to an assertion that he will behave a certain way in this negotiation is a mighty big leap.

That is exactly what I said. 'structured'

He did it once. It stands to reason he'll do it again if he wants to stat which he says he does.

Because we ALL want Luck and Manning (the original premise of the post) right?

You'd be overjoyed...right?

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That is exactly what I said. 'structured'

He did it once. It stands to reason he'll do it again if he wants to stat which he says he does.

Because we ALL want Luck and Manning (the original premise of the post) right?

You'd be overjoyed...right?

He restructured terms of the contract, not the contract itself. This time, he will have to be OK with throwing the old one out in its entirety, and playing well below market value, if he stays with the Colts. Possible, but I'm not seeing the previous renegotiation as any kind of substantiation for a claim that he'll play for pennies just for the honor of being a Colt.

Yes, as much as I am sceptical that there is the slimmest chance in double hockey stick land he'll be wearing a horseshoe next season, I'd love to see it happen. I would, in fact, be overjoyed.

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This has been a topic of discussion in the past. To the best of my understanding, Manning never agreed to take LESS MONEY. He only agreed to let it be spread out differently, freeing up cap room to sign other players. To go from that to an assertion that he will behave a certain way in this negotiation is a mighty big leap.

This last one was less money, and he has moved it around before, but this one is entirely different. Mark likes to claim thing as fact when it is far from it.

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Well tough noogies for Andrew honestly. If some fans find it unfair to Andrew, well life isn't fair. You get your turn when that time comes.

That answer you?

What does that have to do with anything?

Colts sign Manning for a 1 or 2 year contract. Manning plays out that contract at a high level. Then the Colts potentially bring Manning back for another 1,2 or 3, years. How would Luck feel having to sit out a 2nd contract? That is my point.

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This last one was less money, and he has moved it around before, but this one is entirely different. Mark likes to claim thing as fact when it is far from it.

He structured the contract...(or terms of same) so teammates could get paid...

...and he'll take less because the $28 mi bonus wont be paid (we can all agree on that).

None of us can say this is 'entirely different nless you have insid eionfo..

because they havent structured it yet..

I say he will because he has done it in the past.......makes sense

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He structured the contract...(or terms of same) so teammates could get paid...

...and he'll take less because the $28 mi bonus wont be paid (we can all agree on that).

None of us can say this is 'entirely different nless you have insid eionfo..

because they havent structured it yet..

I say he will because he has done it in the past.......makes sense

THIS SITUATION IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT!

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You only have one strong leader.. Peyton Manning...

..and you have the future....Its not too much money....If Luck plays for $5 mil and Manning plays for 5 Mil and incentives

..and we spent $30 mil on the QB position LAST SEASON....we're being thrifty..

Peyton is already costing us ten million if he doesnt play so it would be 15 under your plan for Peyton or 20 million for the QB position...that is to much...

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What does that have to do with anything?

Colts sign Manning for a 1 or 2 year contract. Manning plays out that contract at a high level. Then the Colts potentially bring Manning back for another 1,2 or 3, years. How would Luck feel having to sit out a 2nd contract? That is my point.

Well if he has no problem now. You would assume he has no problem then.

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Well if he has no problem now. You would assume he has no problem then.

No you wouldn't. . . what #1 overall pick in their right mind would sit for 4 or 5 years. .

Remember that only 1. . 1. .#1 overall QB has ever sat. That was Carson Palmer and he sat for 1 year.

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No you wouldn't. . . what #1 overall pick in their right mind would sit for 4 or 5 years. .

Remember that only 1. . 1. .#1 overall QB has ever sat. That was Carson Palmer and he sat for 1 year.

Well there is a first for everything. Currently based on Peyton's contract Andrew would have to sit 4 years. He understands.

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Frankly, I care about how Peyton and Andrew feel, but not when it comes to being the starting QB for the Colts. I want the best QB in there and I'd be happy with either one as the backup. It's a business. Best man starts.

Make it work within the cap. Get them both on the team and let them compete. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."

The Colts are the strongest with both of them in uniform and ready to play.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda aside. Do what's necessary to keep Peyton to give him the longest possible time to become 100%. ...and keep him off someone else's roster. Start Lucks development immediately and come pre-season see where we're at.

Right on!

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Well there is a first for everything. Currently based on Peyton's contract Andrew would have to sit 4 years. He understands.

in 4 years, Lucks contract will be up (based off of Newtons contract from last year 4 years 22million)

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Then that is when he gets his go. He gets his new contract, and the starting job. What is wrong with that?

Whats wrong with that? Spending a #1 overall pick and paying a guy $20M + dollars to sit the bench for his entire contract? That would DEFINITELY be a first.

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How much are we paying Jerry Hughes?

5yr/$12,000,000

http://www.spotrac.c...s/jerry-hughes/

Whats wrong with that? Spending a #1 overall pick and paying a guy $20M + dollars to sit the bench for his entire contract? That would DEFINITELY be a first.

Securing the future of the franchise is worth it. Don't worry your man crush will get his playing time.

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The funny thing is, everyone knew about this contract all along. Even late in the season when we played and defeated Houston, everyone and their best friend's mom was saying that the Colts should keep Peyton NO MATTER WHAT and draft Luck to sit behind him.

-Peyton's health was uncertain at the time. That hasn't change; if anything, he's getting healthier.

-The contract hasn't changed. It didn't bother anyone at the time, but now it bothers the exact same "experts" and new Luck/Colts fans (in that order) who recently joined.

-Luck can develop behind Manning. That hasn't changed.

-Manning can win with new coaches and players in Indianapolis while the team gets loaded up for the future.

Nothing has changed that warrants the exit of the PeyLuck mantra everyone was spouting less than 3 months ago, except Peyton's health...which has gotten better. The only reason people jumped off board is because: a) they are the media and have to talk about something; b) they really want Luck to play because they wear his pajamas; or c)the media told them he has to go, and most average fans don't think for themselves. That's not a slight, it's just true. People spew out headlines and sound bytes. It's easier than doing research.

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5yr/$12,000,000

http://www.spotrac.c...s/jerry-hughes/

Securing the future of the franchise is worth it. Don't worry your man crush will get his playing time.

Do you even read what you are typing? There is no way in heck the Colts are going to use the #1 pick on Luck, have him sit for the length of his contract, and then offer him a new contract. That would undoubtly be one of the stupidest things a front office has ever done.

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Do you even read what you are typing? There is no way in heck the Colts are going to use the #1 pick on Luck, have him sit for the length of his contract, and then offer him a new contract. That would undoubtly be one of the stupidest things a front office has ever done.

Why, please tell me why? Because no other #1 quarterback has? There is a first for everything.

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Why, please tell me why? Because no other #1 quarterback has? There is a first for everything.

Yeah it is a first because it would be a very stupid thing to do. Hence why no one else has ever done it.

Just because no one has done something before does not make it a good idea. If we are talking about a 3rd or 4th round QB then I could see why it makes sense but to spend the #1 overall pick on a quarterback and have him collect $20M+ for 4 years is a terrible idea. If Luck sat until his contract expired, there is no guarantee he is coming back to the Colts. If he took another offer elsewhere the Colts would look like the biggest fools in the world.

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If the Colts decide to go for both, I think they should make it clear to Luck that he will get his chances in games now and then. They will have to use more rotation of the QB spot than before. I don’t think Luck would learn so much if he never gets a snap.

He can get some starts:

  • If Peyton is injured or sick
  • If the team have either made the playoffs or don’t have a chance of making it
  • A few starts a year when the Colts meet bad teams (you always have PM ready to turn it around if it doesn’t go well)
  • In the pre-season

He can get some playing time:

  • If a game is probably won or lost
  • If Payton have a bad day or just hits a ruff spot
  • In a rotation with Payton where PM gets most time, but Luck also gets some
  • Maybe he even get some playing time as a tactic to try to get opponents of their game plan

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The funny thing is, everyone knew about this contract all along. Even late in the season when we played and defeated Houston, everyone and their best friend's mom was saying that the Colts should keep Peyton NO MATTER WHAT and draft Luck to sit behind him.

-Peyton's health was uncertain at the time. That hasn't change; if anything, he's getting healthier.

-The contract hasn't changed. It didn't bother anyone at the time, but now it bothers the exact same "experts" and new Luck/Colts fans (in that order) who recently joined.

-Luck can develop behind Manning. That hasn't changed.

-Manning can win with new coaches and players in Indianapolis while the team gets loaded up for the future.

Nothing has changed that warrants the exit of the PeyLuck mantra everyone was spouting less than 3 months ago, except Peyton's health...which has gotten better. The only reason people jumped off board is because: a) they are the media and have to talk about something; b) they really want Luck to play because they wear his pajamas; or c)the media told them he has to go, and most average fans don't think for themselves. That's not a slight, it's just true. People spew out headlines and sound bytes. It's easier than doing research.

28 million dollars is the single largest payout to a NFL player ever.

This whole notion that because your confident that Peyton will be a okay, and under center for the Colts next fall changes absolutely nothing.

It might happen, it might not, but your rant against basically everyone is ...epic.

Keep up the good work.

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