Ezekiel Elliott Could Miss 6+ Games In Suspension

[DougDew]

I meant BEFORE.  I guess the NFL doesn't consider the conduct of retirees to be harmful to its image.  OJ was retired under an old contract.  Wonder if the current NFLPA contract addresses post retirement conduct.

[footballhero1]

39 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

There's innocent and there's not guilty/

She could have told her friend to lie. She could very easily be trying to ruin his career (although lets be honest, he could plead guilty to this and he will be forgiven by fans)

You can say he's not guilty but innocent?

He was there. 3 police reports. Photos with bruises.

Al these alternate theories are theoretically possible.

 

But his witnesses didnt want to be interviewed.

In light of past incidents and the photos, the NFL cant let this go.

 

He needs to (choosing words carefeully) apologize for causing the woman whatever it is she's going through. Reach a settlement. Admit he regrets the situation. Donate to domestic abuse prevention. Refuse to comment further forever, citing the settlement you reached. And move on.

 

He will be forgiven if he says he's sorry.

 

 

 

There's so much wrong with this and just lack of understanding about the legal system. 

 

Prosecutors did not charge Zeke. The NFL who is notorious for getting these wrong decided they believed one side over the other. I'm taking the people who work in the legal system over the NFL.

 

You're right, there is a difference between not guilty and innocent. Zeke wasn't charged. No reason in the world for him to admit guilt or take any settlement. It actually hurts him because now they would press criminal charges against him for an admission of guilt. Dude could legit go to jail and have his life ruined for trying to get two games shaved off his suspension.

 

Also he won't be forgiven. You know who did everything right after his situation by apologizing and working in the community and trying to better himself, Ray Rice. He's still the poster child for domestic abuse and his career ended. Greg Hardy fought it and got to play another year and has career options. 

 

You underestimating a lot of the complexities of a situation where neither you or I can conclusively say what happened. You are assuming a lot. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

It was. Local police and Ohio State did nothing...or at least, he was never charged with anything.

It puts the NFL in a tough position

The the NFL needs to keep their damn nose out of it he hasn't done anything in the NFL yet 

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

Neither can you. You can't just ignore that this woman was caught lying, caught compelling her friend to lie, threatening to ruin Zeke's career and using race as the metric of belief just to justify a belief that he absolutely did something.

 

Also let's be blunt here. An actual office that's entire function is to investigate crimes and bring charges forward decided NOT to press charges. I'm going to put a little more weight on their investigation than the football people who have gotten it wrong time and time again. 

 

I'm not saying he didn't do it. I'm saying there's serious major doubts in the case and the NFL is completely irresponsible to label someone a domestic abuser in such an instance. 

 

I don't have to do anything.  I'm not an NFL investigator.  But the NFL did investigate, and took great care (and time in doing so.  The NFL saw all the evidence on both sides and issued this about Ezekiel committing the DV offense on 3 separate occasions--

 

The letter (to Elliott), obtained by the Daily News through a source, says on July 17, 2016, evidence shows Elliott “used physical force that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s arms, neck and shoulders.” On July 19, 2016, Elliott used physical force “that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s face, arms, wrist and hands.” And on July 21, 2016, Elliott used physical force “that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s face, neck, arms, knee and hips.”

“League investigators interviewed more than a dozen witnesses, including Ms. Thompson, and examined all available evidence, including photographic and digital evidence, thousands of text messages and other records of electronic communications,” the NFL’s missive explains. “In addition, two medical experts were consulted regarding identification, causation and aging of certain injuries to Ms. Thompson.”

The evidence was so convincing that all four of commissioner Roger Goodell’s advisors consulted in the case “individually were of the view that there is substantial and persuasive evidence supporting a finding that you engaged in physical violence against Ms. Thompson on multiple occasions during the week of July 16, 2016.”

The NFL's personal conduct policy for violations states-

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher.

 

It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime.

 

So the NFL believed the victim more than the defendant.  That is their ruling at the end of the day, the courts and any lack of formal charges has nothing to do with it, period.  And while Elliotts team may take it to the courts (like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, etc,) the Tom Brady case pretty much sealed Goodells's power to be Judge, jury, and executioner, as long as he is unbiased and actions are without fraud.

 

This is checkmate:

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2017/08/14/if-elliott-suspension-goes-to-court-they-wont-be-reviewing-case-about-domestic-violence/

 

[southwest1]

22 hours ago, DougDew said:

This is why it is always difficult for me to pass judgment on a person.  I've not walked in their shoes.  I want to be as gender neutral as possible.  If these reports are true, she seems like she may have a bullying personality.  There are ways to bully someone other than by violence...other threats.  If someone is getting bullied repeatedly by nonviolent means, maybe the perp feels the only way to stop it is by giving a physical beat down.  That doesn't mean its not a crime and is justified, but it's not the same thing as if she was a kind woman who was trapped in a submissive relationship. 

My biggest pet peeve about cases like this is that any form of questioning the credibility of the alleged victim  is automatically viewed or perceived to be some variation of victim shaming. 

 

Victim shaming is horrible & said examples of this include lame statements like she was dressed too provocatively, she was out too late what did she think was gonna happen? She wanted it & only changed her story when the police showed up. All those examples are wrong & blaming women for a sexual assault incident that was the last thing they wanted to transpire ever. 

 

But, when the alleged victim named Tiffany engaged in a conspiracy to blackmail a wealthy athlete for life changing money that's not victim shaming. That's illegal extortion & intent that has nothing to do with a person's gender at all. I despise when the media claims that a legitimate criticism in a person's accusation is another form of traumatizing the victim again. 

 

The bruises on Tiffany are undeniable & it is clear that she was assaulted. However, Tiffany doesn't get a pass on extortion regardless of what photos might show or medical examinations reveal. I'm not trying to rate 1 crime over another here. Tiffany deserves all the psychological help she can receive & Mr. Elliot has to learn that beating women is not okay or cool. He has to change his behavior & get help. 

 

It just bothers me when relevant information is viewed or classified as victim shaming. It's not. 

[footballhero1]

30 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I don't have to do anything.  I'm not an NFL investigator.  But the NFL did investigate, and took great care (and time in doing so.  The NFL saw all the evidence on both sides and issued this about Ezekiel committing the DV offense on 3 separate occasions--

 

The letter (to Elliott), obtained by the Daily News through a source, says on July 17, 2016, evidence shows Elliott “used physical force that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s arms, neck and shoulders.” On July 19, 2016, Elliott used physical force “that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s face, arms, wrist and hands.” And on July 21, 2016, Elliott used physical force “that caused injuries to Ms. Thompson’s face, neck, arms, knee and hips.”

“League investigators interviewed more than a dozen witnesses, including Ms. Thompson, and examined all available evidence, including photographic and digital evidence, thousands of text messages and other records of electronic communications,” the NFL’s missive explains. “In addition, two medical experts were consulted regarding identification, causation and aging of certain injuries to Ms. Thompson.”

The evidence was so convincing that all four of commissioner Roger Goodell’s advisors consulted in the case “individually were of the view that there is substantial and persuasive evidence supporting a finding that you engaged in physical violence against Ms. Thompson on multiple occasions during the week of July 16, 2016.”

The NFL's personal conduct policy for violations states-

While criminal activity is clearly outside the scope of permissible conduct, and persons who engage in criminal activity will be subject to discipline, the standard of conduct for persons employed in the NFL is considerably higher.

 

It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based, and is lawful. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime.

 

So the NFL believed the victim more than the defendant.  That is their ruling at the end of the day, the courts and any lack of formal charges has nothing to do with it, period.  And while Elliotts team may take it to the courts (like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, etc,) the Tom Brady case pretty much sealed Goodells's power to be Judge, jury, and executioner, as long as he is unbiased and actions are without fraud.

 

This is checkmate:

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2017/08/14/if-elliott-suspension-goes-to-court-they-wont-be-reviewing-case-about-domestic-violence/

 

That's all well and good. But the people who did actually have access to ALL the evidence and who are trained and whose vocation it is to investigate crimes did also look into and they took as much if not more care as the NFL people's whose opinions you hold in such esteem. Those people didn't want to move forward. 

 

Either way, the problem is you claiming Elliot should just take the hit and admit to guilt to shave a few games off his suspension. Do you know how insane that is. Seriously imagine if someone accused you of beating up a woman and investigators and the police and the DA got involved and finally said "you know what, there's not enough here, we aren't pressing charges", then you're work did it's own independent investigation and said they believed the other person more so they were suspending you without pay despite having a much lower burden of proof. Then imagine some people in the peanut gallery saying you should just admit to it and say you are sorry stigmatizing you for life and possibly opening up charges because some people who have no business conducting criminal investigations did so and went against the foremost authority in your state. 

 

Now I'm not saying he did or didn't do it. I'm saying there's real doubt and it is very irresponsible to claim that he should in fact admit to it to play a few football games. Quite frankly, the NFL doesn't have enough credibility in these matters to be taken at face value. I don't know why the NFL who has been selectively leaking information (ie they leaked the information about the affidavits but not the text where Ms. Thompson told her friend to lie) should be granted that sort of esteem over real life prosecutors. In fact, it was just a few years ago where the NFL had the Ray Rice tape well before it leaked to TMZ and were defending their stance on suspending him. They are proven liars. Regardless of if he ultimately id it or not, it's not sound to demand Zeke admit guilt because the NFL said they believed someone else more. 

 

Hell just a few weeks ago the Cowboys released a player because he was identified as part of a criminal action because they didn't believe him, and then it turned out to be a case of mistaken identity. I don't hold what a bunch of football people say in regards to legal matters that highly. Sorry. They have the right because of the CBA, in 2020 there is going to be a guaranteed lockout over it. Until then, they can do what they want, but they haven't earned the right to have their word taken at facevalue.

[southwest1]

14 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

Hell just a few weeks ago the Cowboys released a player because he was identified as part of a criminal action because they didn't believe him, and then it turned out to be a case of mistaken identity.

I will acknowledge openly that sometimes, there is a rush to judgment before all the facts have been sorted out. But, being accused of stealing something robbery & domestic violence are not the same thing. 

 

I get it. Being wrongly accused is still being wrongly accused & clearing your name if you truly are innocent is almost impossible. Like Shannon Sharpe said recently on 'Undisputed' "Where can I go to get my name & good reputation back?" 

[footballhero1]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I will acknowledge openly that sometimes, there is a rush to judgment before all the facts have been sorted out. But, being accused of stealing something robbery & domestic violence are not the same thing. 

 

I get it. Being wrongly accused is still being wrongly accused & clearing your name if you truly are innocent is almost impossible. Like Shannon Sharpe said recently on 'Undisputed' "Where can I go to get my name & good reputation back?" 

I agree, and I'll go this far, if Zeke was found guilty in court or there was conclusive Ray Rice level evidence that left no doubt, don't just suspend him, ban him forever. 

 

However, at the same time, we should take more care in how we handle domestic violence cases because there is a living victim, we still can't lose sight of the fact that their is a standard of guilty until proven innocent and demanding admissions of guilt from people who haven't been convicted is just wrong. Not saying the legal system is perfect and gets it right all the time either, but it's the best system we have right now, and I'll take it over the NFL's system any cay. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

My biggest pet peeve about cases like this is that any form of questioning the credibility of the alleged victim  is automatically viewed or perceived to be some variation of victim shaming. 

 

Victim shaming is horrible & said examples of this include lame statements like she was dressed to provocatively, she was out too late what did she think was gonna happen? She wanted it & only changed her story when the police showed up. All those examples are wrong & blaming women for a sexual assault incident that was the last thing they wanted to transpire ever. 

 

But, when the alleged victim named Tiffany engaged in a conspiracy to blackmail a wealthy athlete for life changing money that's not victim shaming. That's illegal extortion & intent that has nothing to do with a person's gender at all. I despise when the media claims that a legitimate criticism in a person's accusation is another form of traumatizing the victim again. 

 

The bruises on Tiffany are undeniable & it is clear that she was assaulted. However, Tiffany doesn't get a pass on extortion regardless of what photos might show or medical examinations reveal. I'm not trying to rate 1 crime over another here. Tiffany deserves all the psychological help she can receive & Mr. Elliot has to learn that beating women is not okay or cool. He has to change his behavior & get help. 

 

It just bothers me when relevant information is viewed or classified as victim shamming. It's not. 

 

{snip a lot of items regarding behavior on both sides}

 

At the end of the day, neither has enough to get charged and found guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'. both have clouded their behavior such that neither is completely believable.  thus, it has to be settled by the NFL in their own version of the Peoples Court.  Hear both sides, try to see who has more supporting evidence than the other, and who is more believable (however slight the scale tip).  Then rule that way.  The advisory panel of felt unanimous in favor of the victim. Goodel had final authority, and agreed with the panel.  Done deal.

 

All the other stuff is back and forth talk, and the NFL won't release the full investigation report, especially since an appeal and possible Federal Court appearances

 

 

[oldunclemark]

4 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

There's so much wrong with this and just lack of understanding about the legal system. 

 

Prosecutors did not charge Zeke. The NFL who is notorious for getting these wrong decided they believed one side over the other. I'm taking the people who work in the legal system over the NFL.

 

You're right, there is a difference between not guilty and innocent. Zeke wasn't charged. No reason in the world for him to admit guilt or take any settlement. It actually hurts him because now they would press criminal charges against him for an admission of guilt. Dude could legit go to jail and have his life ruined for trying to get two games shaved off his suspension.

 

Also he won't be forgiven. You know who did everything right after his situation by apologizing and working in the community and trying to better himself, Ray Rice. He's still the poster child for domestic abuse and his career ended. Greg Hardy fought it and got to play another year and has career options. 

 

You underestimating a lot of the complexities of a situation where neither you or I can conclusively say what happened. You are assuming a lot. 

You thinking this is about the legal system is where you are missing my point.

Its not about the law. he's not going to jail.

I dont hold any grudge against the NFL...I think they get this the of thing right most of the time.

.......and they got it right here....  Ezekiel needs to put this behind him,

You misunderstood about a settlement.

He has to offer HER a settlement.  They both agree to say nothing more about this and she agrees not to pursue it further  . That ends it. Like a contested divorce.

It happens a lot

I know athletes get forgiven.

Ray Lewis was forgiven. Ben Rothlisberger was forgiven

Given what we know now and only that..

Elliott should apologize for the situation.  He's not admitting guilt of any crime but he needs to take the high ground.

 

I think Elliott was lucky to just get six games. You think he is getting a raw deal.

Either way.  He can end it  

Edited August 20, 2017 by oldunclemark

[southwest1]

6 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

I agree, and I'll go this far, if Zeke was found guilty in court or there was conclusive Ray Rice level evidence that left no doubt, don't just suspend him, ban him forever. 

 

However, at the same time, we should take more care in how we handle domestic violence cases because there is a living victim, we still can't lose sight of the fact that their is a standard of guilty until proven innocent and demanding admissions of guilt from people who haven't been convicted is just wrong. Not saying the legal system is perfect and gets it right all the time either, but it's the best system we have right now, and I'll take it over the NFL's system any cay. 

Yes, the burden of proof or the thresh hold a person must reach to be taken seriously does tend to differ depending the character of the person asserting the charge & what the actual crime itself is. 

 

I will say this though. If Roger Goodell handles this infraction like he handled Ray Rice from a disciplinary perspective, he's in serious trouble. When you allow your domestic violence panel to call for a 6 game suspension based on the NFL's personal conduct policy, you better make darn sure your empirical evidence is iron clad. Roger was protected last time because of the money he is making the owners. If he jumped the gun & just accepted the recommendation of the panel without looking at it closely himself. He might regret that dearly. 

[oldunclemark]

The NFL took a year to investigate this.......

This isnt about Roger Goddell.....

 

Its about whether Ezekiel is smart enough to move on or not

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

I agree, and I'll go this far, if Zeke was found guilty in court or there was conclusive Ray Rice level evidence that left no doubt, don't just suspend him, ban him forever. 

 

However, at the same time, we should take more care in how we handle domestic violence cases because there is a living victim, we still can't lose sight of the fact that their is a standard of guilty until proven innocent and demanding admissions of guilt from people who haven't been convicted is just wrong. Not saying the legal system is perfect and gets it right all the time either, but it's the best system we have right now, and I'll take it over the NFL's system any cay. 

 

Just becasue you aren't convicted, doesn't mean your innocent.  I wanted to avoided busting this out, but here it goes.  this from a live broadcast conference call from Peter harvay, Esq. former Attorney General of the state of New Jersey.  heard this in real time, so I knew I could find record of this at a later time if ever needed.  It is now needed.  Here is the record of the conference call (following) and my poignant takeaway-

 

At least the evidence that had been made public to us said that Ms. Thompson might have texted her friends to quote on quote lie about where they were. Was your conclusion more based on the photographic evidence you guys saw or was it more of a he said/she said and you just sided with her more than him?

 

Well it starts with he said/she said, which is why an investigation is conducted.  {snip some items}

 

Now, you raise a question and I don’t want to dodge it, you asked whether or not she had made a misstatement and a false statement. Yes, she did. Her false statement that was revealed was she accused Mr. Elliott of yanking her out of a car on July 21st, really it’s the morning of the 22nd, because I think it was after midnight. That did not happen. And she did ask one of her friends to tell the police that it did happen and the friend had the good sense not to do that. That is true.

 

But as to other statements that she made, both to the Columbus DA as well as to NFL investigators, she was absolutely truthful about them. And by the way, the Columbus prosecutor knew about that false statement and still said to our investigators that he believed her and he believed that the injuries that she articulated to the Columbus DA’s office were caused by Mr. Elliott. He just didn’t believe he had sufficient evidence to prove the case based upon the criminal standard which as you know is beyond a reasonable doubt and that’s the highest standard known to American law.

 

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/CONFERENCE-CALL-RE---EZEKIEL-ELLIOTT-DISCIPLINARY-DECISION-.aspx

 

From where i sit, There isn't anyone that knows all of the evidence in the case that feels he didn't cause those injuries, except him and his (possibly)the NFLPA and his representative team.  Zeke cannot win. The NFL is sending a new message, and it's a new era for the NFL; and Players better get on board-

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2726948-ezekiel-elliott-ruling-signals-new-era-for-nfl-in-confronting-domestic-violence

 

[southwest1]

26 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

The advisory panel of felt unanimous in favor of the victim. Goodel had final authority, and agreed with the panel.  Done deal.

All true CBFL except that after the Falcons received a lower penalty fine for pumping in crowd noise for an infraction that violated a level playing field & the integrity of the game as well as a 2 game suspension for Mr. Rice striking his then finance in a casino elevator awhile back. Roger Goodell has shaky credibility at best right now. 

 

I agree the CBA gives him the authority to dish out punishments. However, the perception of the Commissioner does indeed matter. And his perception is a man who overreaches & goes overboard long before the Elliot case landed on his desk. 

 

For the record, I will always standby the 4 game Brady suspension. Perfectly justified to me. 

[southwest1]

32 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

The NFL is sending a new message, and it's a new era for the NFL; and Players better get on board-

And do you know what message the players are going fire right across the Commissioner's bough once this CBA expires? Kiss your supreme disciplinary authority goodbye when the League & Players Association hammer out a new labor agreement. Welcome in an independent arbitrator Roger. It's coming because of his inconsistency. 

 

I even forgot to mention another scandal under Goodell that was supposed to reveal sound & fury signifying nothing. Remember that Gregg Williams bounty gate ledger that wasn't the smoking gun the league thought it was was it? I will concede that Sean Payton was dumb to lie to the Commissioner face to face & in 2009, I clearly thought the Saints defense was trying to grind Brett Favre into powder in the NFC Championship Game so vicious hits looked like foul play at first glance.   

[footballhero1]

5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

And do you know what message the players are going fire right across the Commissioner's bough once this CBA expires? Kiss your supreme disciplinary authority goodbye when the League & Players Association hammer out a new labor agreement. Welcome in an independent arbitrator Roger. It's coming because of his inconsistency. 

This. The NFLPA is already telegraphing a 2020 lockout. Only this time two of the most powerful owners in the league (Jones and Kraft) are livid at the league going after their star players and now that the players know the ramifications of the last CBA, there are going to be major changes. 

 

I haven't seen a single player talk positively about the last CBA.

[ColtsBlueFL]

12 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

And do you know what message the players are going fire right across the Commissioner's bough once this CBA expires? Kiss your supreme disciplinary authority goodbye when the League & Players Association hammer out a new labor agreement. Welcome in an independent arbitrator Roger. It's coming because of his inconsistency. 

 

Yep, and the owners want something (large) in return. They won't give that up for nothing (whether its 18 game season, whatever...). It's a bargaining session. we fan folk should prepare for a long lockout in a few years.  The players and their union had better start saving money to weather the lean times without football paychecks rolling in the coming dark times too.

 

In the meantime, the Best Zeke can hope for is a reduction in games on appeal to Harold Henderson.  Whatever is decided there (confirmation or reduction) will hold up in the courts.  At least under this CBA.

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, footballhero1 said:

This. The NFLPA is already telegraphing a 2020 lockout. Only this time two of the most powerful owners in the league (Jones and Kraft) are livid at the league going after their star players and now that the players know the ramifications of the last CBA, there are going to be major changes. 

 

I haven't seen a single player talk positively about the last CBA.

Jones and Kraft want the same thing every other owner wants.  More money.  They won't budge on discipline unless the union gives up something BIG in return

[southwest1]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Jones and Kraft want the same thing every other owner wants.  More money.  They won't budge on discipline unless the union gives up something BIG in return

Well said Jvan. It's funny now to think back at Jerry Jones NFL HOF speech in Canton where he publicly praised Roger briefly.

 

Mr. "Keep On Keeping On" isn't raving about Goodell right now is he? 

[oldunclemark]

Remember when the knock on Goddell was that he would never do anything against the most powerful owners like Jones and Kraft.......that he was in their pocket

[oldunclemark]

4 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The the NFL needs to keep their damn nose out of it he hasn't done anything in the NFL yet 

That's a hard stance for the NFL to take.......

.....'We're gonna let Zeke slide because he hadn't signed a contract yet.'

 

Tough sell

[oldunclemark]

  I dont think the NFL is ever going to give away final disciplinary authority to someone out side the NFL.

Why would a private corporation allow someone who had no stake in the league to make decisions about incidents and the league's reaction to them that could affect the bottom line?

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

That's a hard stance for the NFL to take.......

.....'We're gonna let Zeke slide because he hadn't signed a contract yet.'

 

Tough sell

When is joe mixon suspension going to start?  That was on video

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

  I dont think the NFL is ever going to give away final disciplinary authority to someone out side the NFL.

Why would a private corporation allow someone who had no stake in the league to make decisions about incidents and the league's reaction to them that could affect the bottom line?

Companies and unions use arbitrators everyday in this country

[oldunclemark]

30 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

When is joe mixon suspension going to start?  That was on video

It wont. He pleased 'no contest'. He did public service and mandatory counseling.

Not enough for me ..

But the NFL can say he was disciplined and didn't get a pass whether I like it or not.

I've noticed that few ever like the outcomes in disciplinary matters.

There's never going to be universally accepted consistency.

There cant be

[oldunclemark]

22 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Companies and unions use arbitrators everyday in this country

'Companies and unions' isnt the NFL.

Do you think the NFL is EVER going to give up final disciplinary power over its players?

 

 

[footballhero1]

55 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

'Companies and unions' isnt the NFL.

Do you think the NFL is EVER going to give up final disciplinary power over its players?

 

 

Yeah when the players sit. Which the NFLPA is going to make happen. Not long ago everybody thought the refs sitting out wouldn't have a big effect. Within a couple of weeks the fans were screaming bloody murder.

 

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Companies and unions use arbitrators everyday in this country

People really don't understand how this works.

[ColtsBlueFL]

One thing nobody points out... what percentage of the NFL are 'good guys', and what % are the ones in trouble?  All things considered, I think the majority of the players are upstanding citizens (not perfect though none of us are) and won't tolerate an extended lockout just to make life easier for the minority few that just can't stay away from troubles doorstep. They'll want change, but won't hold out forever to take away all the Commissioners power.  I think the commissioner will get first say, then the appeal / arbitration process will be external to the league, likely a tribunal, with a league rep, NFLPA rep, and a non affiliated party {pure guess} to hear and rule on the appeal.

 

The owners know that the Shield is above even their own star players.  Players age and retire, the franchise goes on and on.  The League as a whole and perceptions of the teams drive the long term business.  It's Sports Entertainment.

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

'Companies and unions' isnt the NFL.

Do you think the NFL is EVER going to give up final disciplinary power over its players?

 

 

If the players won't play they will.    No.players,  No money.  Pretty simple

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If the players won't play they will.    No.players,  No money.  Pretty simple

If?  Then the answer is simply 'no' because the players always play.

  Do you (or anyone else) think NFLPA will force a strike over control of player discipline?

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by oldunclemark

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

One thing nobody points out... what percentage of the NFL are 'good guys', and what % are the ones in trouble?  All things considered, I think the majority of the players are upstanding citizens (not perfect though none of us are) and won't tolerate an extended lockout just to make life easier for the minority few that just can't stay away from troubles doorstep. They'll want change, but won't hold out forever to take away all the Commissioners power.  I think the commissioner will get first say, then the appeal / arbitration process will be external to the league, likely a tribunal, with a league rep, NFLPA rep, and a non affiliated party {pure guess} to hear and rule on the appeal.

 

The owners know that the Shield is above even their own star players.  Players age and retire, the franchise goes on and on.  The League as a whole and perceptions of the teams drive the long term business.  It's Sports Entertainment.

I think you have it exactly right. The majority of players probably are good citizens which is why they wont strike over player discipline.

Your tribunal could happen. But I don't think the NFL is going to turn final judgement to a panel where they were not in majority control.  What is the motivation to do that?

Just like the NFL owners aren't going to make most contracts guaranteed just because the NBA and MLB does.

 

I know I'm 'Captain Obvious' here but I think the NFL's financial success is based on its control of players .

 

 

 

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, footballhero1 said:

Yeah when the players sit. Which the NFLPA is going to make happen. Not long ago everybody thought the refs sitting out wouldn't have a big effect. Within a couple of weeks the fans were screaming bloody murder.

 

People really don't understand how this works.

Players wont sit. They could have last time.

The players wont strike over the commissioners control of their disciplinary judgements because most players never get anywhere near a player conduct violation. Only a few do

 

When the NFLPA guy says he's calling a strike in 3 years...he's just tossing words into the future

Labor management negotiations boil down to money. Fans may have an ax to grind against the NFL over suspending a player but when the union gets to the table, its about money.  Because all players want high salaries and more benefits not just a few. 

 

People don't really understand how this works.

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by oldunclemark

[Myles]

Owners are making money, players are making money.    I don't see a strike on the horizon.