Bjorn Werner on the Practice Squad.

[bap1331]

He's not there anymore. Must've been a mistake

[Rally5]

I agree with not blindly going bpa but to look back and tell me olb wasn't a huge need and that's a big reason why he was drafted at that point then your crazy. We had let go of Dwight freeney and traded off jerry hughes. If you really think he was drafted because he was bpa and not because of need then you need to look back. How in the world can you write Dorsett off so early? Wait 3 years on a WR and that will usually tell if he's a bust not 10 games in and he has done decent when he's gotten looks and I think he will be fine coming off his injury in chuds offense. And if we get the 32nd pick in the draft because we won the superbowl I wouldn't care who we drafted....

Werner doesn't remotely resemble an OLB, nor did he on college tape, so it he truly drafted him thinking he could convert him to a 3-4 backer then it's an even worse pick.  Your argument on Werner indicts him either way.  As for Dorsett, I simply don't believe you draft a guy in the first round that plays 4-6 snaps per game when you need players right now that could play 50-70 snaps per game.  You can't tell me there was no starting talent available after Dorsett was chosen at positions that would impact this team now AND for years to come.  You seem to understand where the needs of this team lie, certainly it wasn't at 5th string WR.  To his credit, the following picks were strong, Our mid round picks were superb.

[Rally5]

Really foolish to put Dorsett in with the other two mistakes. Dorsett has yet to prove himself. Your logic, being applied to Reggie Wayne, would have suggested total failure on that pick, which was also a late first rounder, but under Polian. Reggie, in those salad days, was never injured like Dorsett, but many questioned if he would ever pan out after that rookie season. Of course, it was hugely premature to judge Reggie Wayne on his rookie campaign, and it is equally foolish to do it to Dorsett, Especially since he is injured at the moment.

 

Werner and TR represent Grigson's major high profile errors as a GM. Grigs also has had significant success, beginning with getting Vontae Davis for a second round pick. And many others. Trashing Grigson is blood sport for many; the fact is that his track record is better than most GMs already. Just review the past five drafts for each team; you'll be amazed at how poorly a majority of the teams in the NFL have drafted.

 

Keep some perspective and you'll find that Grigson is a far better GM than most suggest. By no means perfect, but none are.

Not foolish at all, to compare Reggie is completely false.  If you recall (which I don't think you do) we didn't have a true number two at the time, I believe we had Langford, a journeyman, in the spot.  I could be wrong and I'm not going to research it.  The Colts wanted a big "possession" type receiver to compliment Harrison.  Some of the conversation was around was Reggie really that type of player, and in fact, he wasn't and it turned out just fine.  This team goes 4 and 5 deep at WR, so the comparison is a bad one at best, just like the pick. If you want to love me with "the future" Dorsett won't be starting next year either, barring injury (fingers crossed).  So you burn a first round pick on a guy who is likely to be a career backup until his next contract which will be with another team.  This after spending a valuable pick on Moncreif just the year prior AND signing Johnson.  Dorsett may be a good player but he was a poor choice.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Where he was drafted he was BPA according to all the Mock Draft experts..............................some had him in the top 5 pre combine?

[Rally5]

Where he was drafted he was BPA according to all the Mock Draft experts..............................some had him in the top 5 pre combine?

I can't wait until we change the narrative from BPA to BFA, Best Fit Available defined as a player with the talent to merit the pick in combination with clear and immediate team needs.  Heck people don't know who the true BPA is half the time anyway or there wouldn't be so many first round failures.   It's become a boutique business of draft pundits to fill airtime and justify their existence.  I'll always maintain you draft in combinations of needs and talent.  Imagine if the first three picks of a draft were all WR's because those three guys were BPA.  It's just dumb logic and sometimes a used cop out in my opinion.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I can't wait until we change the narrative from BPA to BFA, Best Fit Available defined as a player with the talent to merit the pick in combination with clear and immediate team needs.  Heck people don't know who the true BPA is half the time anyway or there wouldn't be so many first round failures.   It's become a boutique business of draft pundits to fill airtime and justify their existence.  I'll always maintain you draft in combinations of needs and talent.  Imagine if the first three picks of a draft were all WR's because those three guys were BPA.  It's just dumb logic and sometimes a used cop out in my opinion.

I agree with you. I am not saying he was the BPA, just that many pundits and obviously The Colts felt he was the best available on the board? I wanted Datone Jones...lol!

[Rally5]

I agree with you. I am not saying he was the BPA, just that many pundits and obviously The Colts felt he was the best available on the board? I wanted Datone Jones...lol!

I hear ya, I have a full time job so I typically try to avoid "knowing" who we should pick.  There are people whose full-time job is figuring that out.  What I do understand is decision making and sound business practices.  That's why the Dorsett pick ticks me off!  To me, it was an irresponsible pick.  Dorsett may be a nice player someday but I would really like to have that extra O-linemen we need, the extra corner, or inside backer.  I'm actually not overly critical of picks but I do think a first rounder needs to be a well thought out investment with a fairly immediate payoff.  If all the logic is sound and the player bombs then I don't get too upset. Example, like many, I thought the TRich trade was a good one, the logic seemed sound at the time, turned out to be a bust. I can live with that, what i didn't like was continually playing him after it was evident he was a bust to try and save face.  Just eat it at that point.  Dorsett to me was an arrogant selection that Grigson insisted on based on his "draft theory" and put his theory before the needs of the team or "the horseshoe" as he calls it (which bugs me, I don't know why).  I'm now tapping out on the topic....Let's go Colts!

[Gavin]

I hear ya, I have a full time job so I typically try to avoid "knowing" who we should pick.  There are people whose full-time job is figuring that out.  What I do understand is decision making and sound business practices.  That's why the Dorsett pick ticks me off!  To me, it was an irresponsible pick.  Dorsett may be a nice player someday but I would really like to have that extra O-linemen we need, the extra corner, or inside backer.  I'm actually not overly critical of picks but I do think a first rounder needs to be a well thought out investment with a fairly immediate payoff.  If all the logic is sound and the player bombs then I don't get too upset. Example, like many, I thought the TRich trade was a good one, the logic seemed sound at the time, turned out to be a bust. I can live with that, what i didn't like was continually playing him after it was evident he was a bust to try and save face.  Just eat it at that point.  Dorsett to me was an arrogant selection that Grigson insisted on based on his "draft theory" and put his theory before the needs of the team or "the horseshoe" as he calls it (which bugs me, I don't know why).  I'm now tapping out on the topic....Let's go Colts!

The draft is not for filling needs, You don't draft unproven draftees to fill needs, You sign proven FA's for that, You draft playmakers in hopes they do the same in the pros preferably well before there 1st contract is up (say year 3 at the latest).

 

Drafting for need is ultimately a terrible indicator of talent. Look at how often teams that have had QB issues go out and reach in the 1st-2nd round for some bum QB only to pass up on much more superior talent, That kind of drafting can set a team back

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I hear ya, I have a full time job so I typically try to avoid "knowing" who we should pick.  There are people whose full-time job is figuring that out.  What I do understand is decision making and sound business practices.  That's why the Dorsett pick ticks me off!  To me, it was an irresponsible pick.  Dorsett may be a nice player someday but I would really like to have that extra O-linemen we need, the extra corner, or inside backer.  I'm actually not overly critical of picks but I do think a first rounder needs to be a well thought out investment with a fairly immediate payoff.  If all the logic is sound and the player bombs then I don't get too upset. Example, like many, I thought the TRich trade was a good one, the logic seemed sound at the time, turned out to be a bust. I can live with that, what i didn't like was continually playing him after it was evident he was a bust to try and save face.  Just eat it at that point.  Dorsett to me was an arrogant selection that Grigson insisted on based on his "draft theory" and put his theory before the needs of the team or "the horseshoe" as he calls it (which bugs me, I don't know why).  I'm now tapping out on the topic....Let's go Colts!

I have to disagree on Dorsett. He should have went much higher than where Indy picked? He gives Indy a triple threat at WR for hopefully years to come? While it would have been nice if there was a quality lineman (offensive or defensive) available at that pick, there unfortunately wasn't? I agree with you on the TRich trade though and like you said, "Lets Go Colts"!

[Rally5]

The draft is not for filling needs, You don't draft unproven draftees to fill needs, You sign proven FA's for that, You draft playmakers in hopes they do the same in the pros preferably well before there 1st contract is up (say year 3 at the latest).

 

Drafting for need is ultimately a terrible indicator of talent. Look at how often teams that have had QB issues go out and reach in the 1st-2nd round for some bum QB only to pass up on much more superior talent, That kind of drafting can set a team back

Having a view that needs don't matter is irresponsible in my opinion.  You draft for BOTH talent and needs.  Do you expect us to draft a QB in the first round if he's BPA, of course not, because we don't NEED one.  So your logic is easily flawed.  Now you're going to say, well don't be stupid, of course we're not going to draft a QB.....exactly!  We needed a QB and we drafted one.  We needed a TE (there were none on the roster in 12) and drafted Fleener.  Then BPA was Duane Allen and we drafted him....it was a great combination of needs and BPA working in concert and was by any account a good draft.   For you to suggest that we just roll BPA all day could lead you down a path of drafting all defense or all offense, it could lead to drafting a WR when you already have 4 on the roster, you could draft 3 safeties in a row.  You may find yourself with gaps in your roster without adequate FA (at the right price) to sign to close the gaps. Other teams may sign FA's that you expected to close. Myopic draft strategies simply make no sense and are frankly unnecessary.  Why pigeon hole yourself?  If BPA is the right call at the right time then yes, by all means, do it.  You have to consider far too many variables: roster, free agency, expiring contracts, salary cap to just say....let's just go BPA and load up with talent that may or may not make sense for our team.  If you disagree, that's cool but won't sway my opinion, the NFL is far too complex for such an elementary philosophy.  Keep in mind to, GM's don't want to offend players already on the roster, so to say, "we went Safety because it's a huge need on our team" upsets your current safeties and we still need those guys.  To say "we went with the best player on the board" is a way keep the locker room in tact.  Plus, it helps camouflage your draft day strategies.  

[Rally5]

I have to disagree on Dorsett. He should have went much higher than where Indy picked? He gives Indy a triple threat at WR for hopefully years to come? While it would have been nice if there was a quality lineman (offensive or defensive) available at that pick, there unfortunately wasn't? I agree with you on the TRich trade though and like you said, "Lets Go Colts"!

Fine but there were no players after Dorsett? Dorsett has yet to really play, certainly no triple threat as of yet, in fact, Whalen has outplayed him to date.  He did make one important catch this year, which was great!  Until that changes.....I think he's a good player, I keep saying it, but not the right pick.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Fine but there were no players after Dorsett? Dorsett has yet to really play, certainly no triple threat as of yet, in fact, Whalen has outplayed him to date.  He did make one important catch this year, which was great!  Until that changes.....I think he's a good player, I keep saying it, but not the right pick.

Why would you take a player you feel has less talent? None of the need areas had players that were as talented as Dorsett was? He was progressing fine until injury and then Griff was given his spot, of which he has done a fine job. Anyway, we will just have to agree to disagree? Enjoy the game  

[Rally5]

Why would you take a player you feel has less talent? None of the need areas had players that were as talented as Dorsett was? He was progressing fine until injury and then Griff was given his spot, of which he has done a fine job. Anyway, we will just have to agree to disagree? Enjoy the game  

Ok, first, how do you know who has less talent?  There's a lof of impact rookies out there.  Ask it this way, would you want a role player who plays 4-6 plays per game or a starting right tackle, G, ILB that plays 50-70 plays per game? Your logic says, the very best we could do with our first round pick was a guy who will play 6 plays per game.  In fact, they knew it was a bit of a crazy pick and started with "well he'll return punts and kicks too," which he really didn't do in college (just one year) and he didn't do that well and has been since been replaced.   I don't see him taking Moncreif or Hilton's spot any time soon so right now as we sit here best case is we drafted a third down receiver that hasn't outplayed our current third round receivers.  

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Ok, first, how do you know who has less talent?  There's a lof of impact rookies out there.  Ask it this way, would you want a role player who plays 4-6 plays per game or a starting right tackle, G, ILB that plays 50-70 plays per game? Your logic says, the very best we could do with our first round pick was a guy who will play 6 plays per game.  In fact, they knew it was a bit of a crazy pick and started with "well he'll return punts and kicks too," which he really didn't do in college (just one year) and he didn't do that well and has been since been replaced.   I don't see him taking Moncreif or Hilton's spot any time soon so right now as we sit here best case is we drafted a third down receiver that hasn't outplayed our current third round receivers.  

LOL! Who is the impact rookie that would have filled a need that was drafted after Dorsett? If you pick for need your NFL career will be short. Also, since you seem to have missed that Dorsett was injured and that and that alone is why Griff is playing kind of disproves your point? Also, how do YOU know that Dorsett won't be better than TY, how did you know that TY would re-sign so easily?? Quite frankly you seem to be looking for an argument despite being incorrect?

[TheRustonRifle#7]

_{Let me re-phrase the above...who was the rookie drafted after Dorsett that would have filled a need and been an impact player?}

[Hoose]

Dorsett will remain a questionable pick in many people's eyes so long as he sits healing on the sideline. In fact he was a solid pick at a position where the Colts had little depth behind TY. That allowed teams to double team him last year, and it hurt the Colts offense. The draft is a crap shoot. Just take the time to review the past five drafts and look at how many first round picks have washed out of the NFL or haven't panned out. Its a surprisingly high number. Whether or not Dorsett proves his worth will take time; WRs almost always need a year under their belt. Remember Reggie Wayne? Lots of complaints about his being a disappointment his first year. Look at Moncrief now.

 

The 2015 draft for the Colts will hinge on whether or not the rest of the players pan out. So far, D'Joun Smith is a big question mark who has talent,  but the Stanford twins and Geathers look like excellent picks. If Smith pans out you have potentially four defensive starters from the draft. Our two sixth rounders each made the team at one time, and are now biding their time on the PS. And our 7th rounder has a chance to start today at RT. So far, so good.  

[Rally5]

Dorsett will remain a questionable pick in many people's eyes so long as he sits healing on the sideline. In fact he was a solid pick at a position where the Colts had little depth behind TY. That allowed teams to double team him last year, and it hurt the Colts offense. The draft is a crap shoot. Just take the time to review the past five drafts and look at how many first round picks have washed out of the NFL or haven't panned out. Its a surprisingly high number. Whether or not Dorsett proves his worth will take time; WRs almost always need a year under their belt. Remember Reggie Wayne? Lots of complaints about his being a disappointment his first year. Look at Moncrief now.

 

The 2015 draft for the Colts will hinge on whether or not the rest of the players pan out. So far, D'Joun Smith is a big question mark who has talent,  but the Stanford twins and Geathers look like excellent picks. If Smith pans out you have potentially four defensive starters from the draft. Our two sixth rounders each made the team at one time, and are now biding their time on the PS. And our 7th rounder has a chance to start today at RT. So far, so good.  

I actually think it's a really good draft after P1, maybe the best draft we've had.  The Dorsett pick is just baffling.  Reggie isn't the right comparison because we didn't have a #2 at the time, Jerome Pathon was not the guy. The fact that Moncreif was a #3 the previous year is a big part of why Dorsett makes even less sense, not to mention the additional FA moves.  I don't know how anyone would defend the pick but fine.

[Rally5]

_{Let me re-phrase the above...who was the rookie drafted after Dorsett that would have filled a need and been an impact player?}

Answer your own question, what has Dorsett done to merit the pick?  

[Jason_]

Having a view that needs don't matter is irresponsible in my opinion.  You draft for BOTH talent and needs.  Do you expect us to draft a QB in the first round if he's BPA, of course not, because we don't NEED one.  So your logic is easily flawed.  Now you're going to say, well don't be stupid, of course we're not going to draft a QB.....exactly!  We needed a QB and we drafted one.  We needed a TE (there were none on the roster in 12) and drafted Fleener.  Then BPA was Duane Allen and we drafted him....it was a great combination of needs and BPA working in concert and was by any account a good draft.   

 

The problem is that many people take the phrase "Best Player Available" way too literally.  First, no one that says they draft the BPA means that they're drafting the Best player available out of all remaining players left.  They're referring to the best player available based on the draft board that they have setup for their team.  That's where many of the issues you pointed out get worked out.  You're right,  the Colts aren't going to draft a QB in the first round...and they're most likely not even going to have a QB with 1st round projection on their board at all.  

[krunk]

I would really like to know what has happened to Sio Moore?  Why are we leaving him inactive?  It's puzzling me...