Tackle Box Expanded - ramifications?

[amfootball]

As was mentioned on the Pats formation rule thread, the NFL has expanded the tackle box by three yards:

 

The definition of the tackle box was changed to: between the outside edges of the normal tackle positions extending three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line. (Submitted by Competition Committee)  http://www.detroitlions.com/news/article-1/NFL-adopts-rule-changes/7f2a0cd9-8dde-44cf-86cd-f94f9378a79c

 

 

Given this, the Pats swinging gate play has really not been outlawed at all but only slightly modified as now the RB can line up three yards from the tackle which is pretty much where Vereen was on the plays vs the Ravens.

 

Also, this means intentional grounding will now have a larger area of the QBs to get outside of when scrambling to ensure they are not penalized.

 

I am thinking this rule change was made to also allow for the spread formations on the punt as Belichick said if they outlawed the ineligible player lining up outside the tackle box it would effect the punt.

 

Can other people think of other reasons for this change and/or ramifications?

[Valpo2004]

As was mentioned on the Pats formation rule thread, the NFL has expanded the tackle box by three yards:

 

The definition of the tackle box was changed to: between the outside edges of the normal tackle positions extending three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line. (Submitted by Competition Committee)  http://www.detroitlions.com/news/article-1/NFL-adopts-rule-changes/7f2a0cd9-8dde-44cf-86cd-f94f9378a79c

 

 

Given this, the Pats swinging gate play has really not been outlawed at all but only slightly modified as now the RB can line up three yards from the tackle which is pretty much where Vereen was on the plays vs the Ravens.

 

Also, this means intentional grounding will now have a larger area of the QBs to get outside of when scrambling to ensure they are not penalized.

 

I am thinking this rule change was made to also allow for the spread formations on the punt as Belichick said if they outlawed the ineligible player lining up outside the tackle box it would effect the punt.

 

Can other people think of other reasons for this change and/or ramifications?

 

Wait a second what does that mean?  I'm confused. 

 

Outside edges of the normal tackle positions. . . (Isn't that what it was before)

 

3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage (Why would that matter, you can't throw the ball past the line of scrimage anyways)

 

To the offensive teams end line (Where is the offensive team's end line?)

 

If the tackle box is bigger it likely means more sacks.  This could be one of the few times that they change a rule to favor the defense for a change.  

[jvan1973]

As was mentioned on the Pats formation rule thread, the NFL has expanded the tackle box by three yards:

The definition of the tackle box was changed to: between the outside edges of the normal tackle positions extending three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line. (Submitted by Competition Committee) http://www.detroitlions.com/news/article-1/NFL-adopts-rule-changes/7f2a0cd9-8dde-44cf-86cd-f94f9378a79c

Given this, the Pats swinging gate play has really not been outlawed at all but only slightly modified as now the RB can line up three yards from the tackle which is pretty much where Vereen was on the plays vs the Ravens.

Also, this means intentional grounding will now have a larger area of the QBs to get outside of when scrambling to ensure they are not penalized.

I am thinking this rule change was made to also allow for the spread formations on the punt as Belichick said if they outlawed the ineligible player lining up outside the tackle box it would effect the punt.

Can other people think of other reasons for this change and/or ramifications?

Vareen was much further than three yards from the tackle

[amfootball]

Vareen was much further than three yards from the tackle

He was in the slot which I am not sure how far that is exactly from the tackle box. But three yards out would still make it appear that he is a receiver which is what I thought the whole point of the new rule was in the first place? Make him line up with the lineman/TE but now with the expanded tackle box he will be out in space. Again, I see this as a something they had to do for the punt formations which is what Belichick said would happen if they messed with where players could or could not line up.

[21isSuperman]

I'm very confused by that wording.  3 yard beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team's end line?  So if Home has the ball on their own 20, the tackle box goes to the 17 yard line?

 

Does the depth really matter?  The tackle box could go all the way back to the goal line and it wouldn't make a difference, if I'm understanding it correctly.  For things like intentional grounding, the QB has to be inside the tackle box.  So he needs to get outside of the tackles; the depth doesn't make a difference.  He could be on his own 17, his own 15, his own 12, or even his own 5 yard line.  But as long as he's outside of the tackle box, he won't get called for intentional grounding.  Or am I way off here?

[basspapaw]

I think this defines what they can and can not do, Giving the coaches the opportunity to plan to defense the situation when it arrives or to plan on using it as an offensive weapon , Now the pats will take this rule apart piece by piece and see what they can and cant get away with , using there past for reference I would bet they "test" the officials knowledge on this rule pushing the rule to its limits and beyond till next year when the rules committee will have to again define, and change it so BB cant get away with unsportsmanlike  conduct. I can see this happening again and again for years to come. 

[Valpo2004]

I'm very confused by that wording.  3 yard beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team's end line?  So if Home has the ball on their own 20, the tackle box goes to the 17 yard line?

 

Does the depth really matter?  The tackle box could go all the way back to the goal line and it wouldn't make a difference, if I'm understanding it correctly.  For things like intentional grounding, the QB has to be inside the tackle box.  So he needs to get outside of the tackles; the depth doesn't make a difference.  He could be on his own 17, his own 15, his own 12, or even his own 5 yard line.  But as long as he's outside of the tackle box, he won't get called for intentional grounding.  Or am I way off here?

 

I'm confused about the same stuff here, although I read 3 yards beyond the line of scrimage to extend to the 23 in your situation.

[21isSuperman]

I'm confused about the same stuff here, although I read 3 yards beyond the line of scrimage to extend to the 23 in your situation.

I'm not sure if offensive end line meant against the direction the offense is going or towards it.  Either way, I'm confused

[Valpo2004]

I'm not sure if offensive end line meant against the direction the offense is going or towards it.  Either way, I'm confused

 

Well if it goes to the 23 and extends to the offensive team's end line that would make sense in that it goes from the 23 all the way back to the back of the endzone.  

 

But it begs the question, why the 3 yards from the 20 to the 23.  You can't throw the ball or line up past the LOS so it would not matter.

[dgambill]

Pretty sure it means "on" the line of scrimmage....three yards beyond the tackle normal position. As you know if your too far back off the line your technically in the backfield....we see that get called sometimes when lineman set up in a horseshoe kinda formation because they are only allowed to be "off" the ball by 1 yard. It would make it much easier for the tackle to block the edge rusher if they could line up further off.

 

So in essence the inelligible player must be no further than 3 yds past the tackle position "on" the line of scrimmage....not flexed out in the slot or wideout position. It does raise questions about how far the qb must roll out to avoid intentional grounding though. Past the edge of the last eligible player or 3yds past.....thats a big deal.

[amfootball]

Pretty sure it means "on" the line of scrimmage....three yards beyond the tackle normal position. As you know if your too far back off the line your technically in the backfield....we see that get called sometimes when lineman set up in a horseshoe kinda formation because they are only allowed to be "off" the ball by 1 yard. It would make it much easier for the tackle to block the edge rusher if they could line up further off.

 

So in essence the inelligible player must be no further than 3 yds past the tackle position "on" the line of scrimmage....not flexed out in the slot or wideout position. It does raise questions about how far the qb must roll out to avoid intentional grounding though. Past the edge of the last eligible player or 3yds past.....thats a big deal.

Ah, I think I get this now.

 

So if you have 5 guys on the line all shoulder to shoulder, you can have one more guy three yards to the right or left of the last lineman as long as he is on the line of scrimmage? Is that right?

[dgambill]

Ah, I think I get this now.

 

So if you have 5 guys on the line all shoulder to shoulder, you can have one more guy three yards to the right or left of the last lineman as long as he is on the line of scrimmage? Is that right?

You can only have 4 players behind the line of scrimmage. They are all eligible. You can not line up an ineligible player in the back field. But you COULD before line the ineligible players anywhere ON the line...as far out as you want aka in the slot like we saw in the playoffs. Now their saying you can't line up an ineligible player past 3 yrds beyond the tackle. I think that is how it is ment but the wording is ambiguous. If they have an ineligible number they have to be covered by an eligible receiver on the end. So I think you have it....

[amfootball]

You can only have 4 players behind the line of scrimmage. They are all eligible. You can not line up an ineligible player in the back field. But you COULD before line the ineligible players anywhere ON the line...as far out as you want aka in the slot like we saw in the playoffs. Now their saying you can't line up an ineligible player past 3 yrds beyond the tackle. I think that is how it is ment but the wording is ambiguous. If they have an ineligible number they have to be covered by an eligible receiver on the end. So I think you have it....

So is this more or less a concession on getting ridding of the swinging gate formation? Because it would seem the Pats could still do it just not have the RB in the slot but in a little more in within the three yards from the tackle? If this is the case, then the outlawing of the swinging gate formation really makes no sense to me at all.

[dgambill]

So is this more or less a concession on getting ridding of the swinging gate formation? Because it would seem the Pats could still do it just not have the RB in the slot but in a little more in within the three yards from the tackle? If this is the case, then the outlawing of the swinging gate formation really makes no sense to me at all.

Its basically to make it easier for the defense to monitor who is possibly eligible on a play. They wouldn't cover a guy in an eligible position accidentally if they were say placed on the hashmarks or something. Also helps officials keep track as well. I don't think its to eliminate anything....just make identification easier and eliminate confusion. Offenses have plenty of trick plays etc and plenty of formations at their disposal...this simply keeps the ineligible players in a more confined area and easier to watch. What if the officials are trying to watch for linman down field etc and if they are lined up all over...well its hard on officials too. Like you said....still run plays...some just may not be as effective....or who knows...maybe it won't hinder them at all.

[amfootball]

Its basically to make it easier for the defense to monitor who is possibly eligible on a play. They wouldn't cover a guy in an eligible position accidentally if they were say placed on the hashmarks or something. Also helps officials keep track as well. I don't think its to eliminate anything....just make identification easier and eliminate confusion. Offenses have plenty of trick plays etc and plenty of formations at their disposal...this simply keeps the ineligible players in a more confined area and easier to watch. What if the officials are trying to watch for linman down field etc and if they are lined up all over...well its hard on officials too. Like you said....still run plays...some just may not be as effective....or who knows...maybe it won't hinder them at all.

Sure. I get all that except the play that kicked off this rule changed was a RB lined up in the slot. So he was just a yard or so more away from this new tackle box rule. That is the part I don't get. The Pats can basically run a very similar play IMO.

[dgambill]

Sure. I get all that except the play that kicked off this rule changed was a RB lined up in the slot. So he was just a yard or so more away from this new tackle box rule. That is the part I don't get. The Pats can basically run a very similar play IMO.

I honestly don't know where he was. Typically the slot is a little further out..but very possibly...guess it depends if he was on the short side of the field or not etc....honestly I haven't obsessed over this like some other people on here. My only issue was how people report ineligible/eligible etc. I don't care for the PA reporting etc. I prefer to have the team lineup in formation and have the eligible or declared ineligible player raise their hand like a fair catch....official back away...team run their play (motion) etc etc. I think a lot of these plays work because the defense is trying to get their own play call in...matchup...get in formation and don't always hear (helmets and crowd noise) the call. I know when I'm at the game I've missed the announcement before. But if what your saying is right...then yep...not change much at all.

[Bad Morty]

Vereen was definitely more than 3 yards

 

Vareen was much further than three yards from the tackle

 

He's the "ineligible" guy in the photo..so I think you are correct.

 

[JerodMayo51]

Intentional grounding calls will be going up now. Good job Harbaugh!

[amfootball]

Intentional grounding calls will be going up now. Good job Harbaugh!

Can't wait for the first time it is called on Flacco and watching Harbaugh's histrionics on the sideline ... lol.