Colts Injury Updates & Chuck Pagano on the Teams status

[TKnight24]

@KBowenColts: An update of @Colts injuries (Davis, Richardson, Walden and Wayne) and Chuck Pagano on the status of LaRon Landry

Link: http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Chuck-Pagano-Provides-Injury-Updates-On-Vontae-Davis-Reggie-Wayne-Status-Of-LaRon-Landry/28a73b54-30ee-48de-ace2-1e5afde769e0

@KBowenColts: Chuck Pagano said it remains to be seen how much on the field work the Colts do Wednesday: “We are a beat up football team right now."

@KBowenColts: Pagano says the Colts have until 4:00 p.m. next Monday to make a roster move to bring Landry back to the 53-man roster.

[TKnight24]

@HolderStephen: Oftentimes, when Pagano says "week to week" it really means "weeks." We'll see if that holds true with Erik Walden. It did w Art Jones

[southwest1]

Whoa, I feel bad for Erik Walden. Almost 30 grand for touching a referee during the Bengals game. Is that the going rate violation wise on average just for touching a zebra? Seems steep to me. He will think twice before doing that again I guess. 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11745736/erik-walden-indianapolis-colts-says-fine-ejection-contacting-official-were-nonsense

 

Is a hip flexor strain a lingering issue or something Walden can recover easily from? I don't know. I'm asking. 

 

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24771131/colts-lb-erik-walden-week-to-week-with-hip-injury

 

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/10428650/hip-flexor-strain-hip-flexor-injury-iliopsoas-.htm

[southwest1]

I didn't even know that Trent Richardson was hurt. "(hamstring): Richardson will be ready to go this week." I just figured that Pags & Grigs sat him down because they figured that his running yards was was low that it wasn't gonna cut it inside 3 Rivers Stadium. I was just glad to see RB Dan Herron get more touches. That kid can get to the 2nd level something TR rarely if ever does. 

 

I like how hard TR is working & his attitude but his production leaves a lot to be desired. I know Chuck loves em. Me? Not so much...I wanna like TR, but his lack of yards per carry between the tackles is really starting to frustrate me. Sigh...

[southwest1]

"Pagano cautioned that while the Colts want Landry back for the Giants game, just because the safety's suspension has concluded doesn’t necessarily mean he will be ready for game action after a month away from football." 

 

Do we have to start  LaRon Landry VS Big Blue [NY Giants] this week?   No seriously, I mean I like how Sergio Brown has been playing instead. I know; I know Landry's salary means he will probably play. What about the best player at the safety position? Landry isn't it IMO. 

 

We are really wresting with injuries right now. Our week 10 bye week will be better if we can get a w vs Tom Coughlin's squad this week, but they are coming off their bye right now too & Tom knows how to coach with an extra week to throw some extra wrinkles/dimensions at INDY. 

 

Man, this game makes me nervous because the Giants backs are against the wall. They need this game bad & even during an up & down year Big Blue's o-line & d-line are always formidable. I have a lot of respect for this Big Apple organization. This is a trap game. Don't look ahead to the Patriots...

[TKnight24]

"Pagano cautioned that while the Colts want Landry back for the Giants game, just because the safety's suspension has concluded doesn’t necessarily mean he will be ready for game action after a month away from football."

Do we have to start LaRon Landry VS Big Blue [NY Giants] this week? No seriously, I mean I like how Sergio Brown has been playing instead. I know; I know Landry's salary means he will probably play. What about the best player at the safety position? Landry isn't it IMO.

If salary is what the coaches use to determine who starts..... I'm almost certain Shipley should be starting at C over Harrison

[twfish]

I didn't even know that Trent Richardson was hurt. "(hamstring): Richardson will be ready to go this week." I just figured that Pags & Grigs sat him down because they figured that his running yards was was low that it wasn't gonna cut it inside 3 Rivers Stadium. I was just glad to see RB Dan Herron get more touches. That kid can get to the 2nd level something TR rarely if ever does.

I like how hard TR is working & his attitude but his production leaves a lot to be desired. I know Chuck loves em. Me? Not so much...I wanna like TR, but his lack of yards per carry between the tackles is really starting to frustrate me. Sigh...

He averaged like 5 yards a carry at the Bengals game. Dont think your giving him enough credit

[southwest1]

He averaged like 5 yards a carry at the Bengals game. Dont think your giving him enough credit

 

It's possible I'm not. I will grant you that twfish. However, like I've said many times before, runs that bounce outside or open space runs won't be available once the snow hits the ground in late Nov. early December. 

 

1 decent showing vs the Bengals is not enough for me to show TR with production praise yet. If he has a monster game vs the NY Giants & that good defense, I will re-evaluate my original stance on TR not until then though. 

 

If TR has 2 great games vs Big Blue & NE, then we can talk....

[twfish]

It's possible I'm not. I will grant you that twfish. However, like I've said many times before. runs that bounce outside or open space runs won't be available once the snow hits the ground in late Nov. early December.

1 decent showing vs the Bengals is not enough for me to show TR with production praise yet.

I think hes done very well for us this year. I do agree he needs to change things. I however think people will rag on him forever. Doesn't matter if he rushed for 2,000 yards people would still say we wasted a pick. But honestly what we got out of the draft I can definitely live without a first rounder. I mean we got Jack, donte, and Newsome. All who have played pretty well and our udfa were really picked extremely well (screams Kerr at rhe top of my lungs lol) were very lucly we didnt strike out

[TKnight24]

It's possible I'm not. I will grant you that twfish. However, like I've said many times before. runs that bounce outside or open space runs won't be available once the snow hits the ground in late Nov. early December.

1 decent showing vs the Bengals is not enough for me to show TR with production praise yet.

2014 Season

Trent Richardson: 358 Rushing Yards 3.5 YPC

Ahmad Bradshaw: 371 Rushing Yards 4.9 YPC

While Bradshaw has the higher YPC average, Trent still has similar numbers to Ahmad

[southwest1]

2014 Season

Trent Richardson: 358 Rushing Yards 3.5 YPC

Ahmad Bradshaw: 371 Rushing Yards 4.9 YPC

While Bradshaw has the higher YPC average, Trent still has similar numbers to Ahmad

Bradshaw hits the crease & punches through it. TR never punches through anything. That's the night & day difference between both backs. 

[TKnight24]

Bradshaw hits the crease & punches through it. TR never punches through anything. That's the night & day difference between both backs.

True, but he's still putting up similar numbers

There's nothing fast about Richardson. He's the slowest & least explosive out of the 3 Alabama RB's (Lacy, Ingram, & Richardson)

He's a power back, like a Brandon Jacobs. The type you use to wear down a defense then that allows Bradshaw to come in and break off the runs. Whether people wanna admit it or not, we missed Richardson Sunday. His ability to wear a defense down really makes the offense better.

Bradshaw runs hard but isn't the bruiser that Richardson is

[southwest1]

If salary is what the coaches use to determine who starts..... I'm almost certain Shipley should be starting at C over Harrison

Your logic is sound TK, but Landry signed a 4 year contract for $24 million & $11,000,000 guaranteed. I highly doubt he will be chilling on the bench. That's a lot of cash siting idle in the secondary. I can't see that happening beyond 1 week maximum personally. 

[TKnight24]

Your logic is sound TK, but Landry signed a 4 year contract for $24 million & $11,000,000 guaranteed. I highly doubt he will be chilling on the bench. That's a lot of cash siting idle in the secondary. I can't see that happening beyond 1 week maximum personally.

I get that but what coach in their right mind would choose salary over production?

If you know he won't like sitting the bench, trade or cut him

Nothing in life should be given to anyone, you earn it. And Landry although we've had a very small sample of Brown has been outplayed by Brown and deserves to Start.

And I can almost guarantee my entire apple juice supply that if the coaches hand Landry the starting job back, they'll be problems in the locker room and the media will attack with questions as to why that decision was made

And then also of course....... This forum will ERUPT!!!

[southwest1]

True, but he's still putting up similar numbers

There's nothing fast about Richardson. He's the slowest & least explosive out of the 3 Alabama RB's (Lacy, Ingram, & Richardson)

He's a power back, like a Brandon Jacobs. The type you use to wear down a defense then that allows Bradshaw to come in and break off the runs. Whether people wanna admit it or not, we missed Richardson Sunday. His ability to wear a defense down really makes the offense better.

Bradshaw runs hard but isn't the bruiser that Richardson is

Yeah, I agree with your reply. All valid points TK, except if INDY falls behind 24-34 points to say the Broncos or the Pats in December can we still afford to run the ball for 3.5 yards a carry? Probably not. Just ask Denver who replaced RB Ball with Hillman. 

 

TR reminds me of Tampa Bay RB Mike Alstott just straight ahead nothing fancy like a battering ram. 

[TKnight24]

Yeah, I agree with your reply. All valid points TK, except if INDY falls behind 24-34 points to say the Broncos or the Pats in December can we still afford to run the ball for 3.5 yards a carry? Probably not. Just ask Denver who replaced RB Ball with Hillman.

TR reminds me of Tampa Bay RB Mike Alstott just straight ahead nothing fancy like a battering ram.

Ball is injured, he wasn't replaced

Although he probably will be now. Hillman is a better fit cause it's a spread offense. Scat backs work better in spread offenses than power backs. Ball will probably be the 3rd down back/goal line back instead of them using the FB like they did Thursday when he gets healthy

And if we fall behind like that against Denver or New England we won't be running anymore period. That's our problem, we panic and completely abandon the run game the second we start trailing in a game

[southwest1]

I get that but what coach in their right mind would choose salary over production?

If you know he won't like sitting the bench, trade or cut him

Nothing in life should be given to anyone, you earn it. And Landry although we've had a very small sample of Brown has been outplayed by Brown and deserves to Start.

And I can almost guarantee my entire apple juice supply that if the coaches hand Landry the starting job back, they'll be problems in the locker room and the media will attack with questions as to why that decision was made

And then also of course....... This forum will ERUPT!!!

That all sounds good except that the owner signs all the checks in the locker room & with such a large investment in 1 person at 1 position. The HC & GM know that Landry in civilian clothes on the sideline or dressed with no game action won't make Jim Irsay a happy man. 

 

Also, your never gonna trade a safety your paying $11,000,000 in guaranteed money too. No, owner is gonna eat that contract & cut Landry loose for 11 grand. No way; no how. 

[akcolt]

He averaged like 5 yards a carry at the Bengals game. Dont think your giving him enough credit

I think he was missed a little bit in blitz pick up on Sunday as well but some people will never get off the guys back. Boom 1 carry for 2 yards man was he tearing into the Steelers second level. I did look good after Trent and Bradshaw ran the Bengals D in the ground for him.

[akcolt]

True, but he's still putting up similar numbers

There's nothing fast about Richardson. He's the slowest & least explosive out of the 3 Alabama RB's (Lacy, Ingram, & Richardson)

He's a power back, like a Brandon Jacobs. The type you use to wear down a defense then that allows Bradshaw to come in and break off the runs. Whether people wanna admit it or not, we missed Richardson Sunday. His ability to wear a defense down really makes the offense better.

Bradshaw runs hard but isn't the bruiser that Richardson is

God someone actually gets it.

[southwest1]

Ball is injured, he wasn't replaced

Although he probably will be now. Hillman is a better fit cause it's a spread offense. Scat backs work better in spread offenses than power backs. Ball will probably be the 3rd down back/goal line back instead of them using the FB like they did Thursday when he gets healthy

And if we fall behind like that against Denver or New England we won't be running anymore period. That's our problem, we panic and completely abandon the run game the second we start trailing in a game

Okay technically, you're right Ball was injured vs replaced, but scat back or end zone back production is always king. Ball is done in Denver & Anderson could be both a long distance runner & goal line back who is superior to Ball right now IMO. 

 

If INDY got down to far by say 35 points in the 3rd quarter, we go with Bradshaw & Herron & we say Richardson who? Translation: When a team is down big time, you select backs that can generate yards by running between the tackles not bounce outside, fall down, lose yardage, & force Luck to use his arm & legs for long 3rd down conversions.  

 

If INDY is losing the time of possession battle on the field in a big scoring hole, you have no time for a bruiser back like TR that's my whole point & the real problem with TR. You can only use him down 7-10 points in this battering ram capacity. 

[braveheartcolt]

True, but he's still putting up similar numbers

There's nothing fast about Richardson. He's the slowest & least explosive out of the 3 Alabama RB's (Lacy, Ingram, & Richardson)

He's a power back, like a Brandon Jacobs. The type you use to wear down a defense then that allows Bradshaw to come in and break off the runs. Whether people wanna admit it or not, we missed Richardson Sunday. His ability to wear a defense down really makes the offense better.

Bradshaw runs hard but isn't the bruiser that Richardson is

1.4 yards per carry is not even close to being 'similar'.

[southwest1]

True, but he's still putting up similar numbers

There's nothing fast about Richardson. He's the slowest & least explosive out of the 3 Alabama RB's (Lacy, Ingram, & Richardson)

He's a power back, like a Brandon Jacobs. The type you use to wear down a defense then that allows Bradshaw to come in and break off the runs. Whether people wanna admit it or not, we missed Richardson Sunday. His ability to wear a defense down really makes the offense better.

Bradshaw runs hard but isn't the bruiser that Richardson is

Funny that you mentioned Saints RB Mark Ingram who had a fantastic game last night vs Green Bay. That guy can run both inside & outside with solid ball security. My issue with TR is that he reminds me of a cat who runs into a screen door. He only runs downhill & he has no peripheral vision or change on a dime direction skills. The lack of direction dynamic I can live without, but poor vision usually equals a ho hum RB. Like a pass rusher who only plays at their best with a sizable lead in the game late. 

 

If we had Bradshaw & Ingram, INDY would be in great shape. 

 

1.4 yards per carry is not even close to being 'similar'.

Good point. TR either has a break out game or a lackluster one. There is no middle ground here but as we approach week 9, I expect our backs to be reaching their mid season stride not waiting for that next gear to kick in. It's now or never TR. Show me something worthwhile on the field. 

[wordofmouth]

1.4 yards per carry is not even close to being 'similar'.

Braveheart , apparently you have not gone through the American School system

 

I think this was in the new Common Core curriculum:

If player A is averaging 30% more per carry than player B then:

 

A) Player B is running more effectively

B) Player A is running more effectively

C) They are Similar

 

The Answer..... C  and no one gets their feelings hurt. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

@HolderStephen: Oftentimes, when Pagano says "week to week" it really means "weeks." We'll see if that holds true with Erik Walden. It did w Art Jones

It has seemed that with art jones back we have been worse while he has played. We have had a good D, then he comes back and we are doing horribly. I guess the giants game will be a true testimonial to that. Didn't he go down the the eagles game? Then back again vs the steelers?

[SteelCityColt]

If salary is what the coaches use to determine who starts..... I'm almost certain Shipley should be starting at C over Harrison

 

You'd almost certainly be wrong...

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/a.q.-shipley/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/jonotthan-harrison/

[temujin1227]

You'd almost certainly be wrong...

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/a.q.-shipley/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/jonotthan-harrison/

 

That is correct. Shipley makes a bit more than Harrison, but not much. However, had Shipley continued to rank in the top 5 Centers in the NFL, had they started him the rest of the season, he would have entrenched himself with the fans and made it difficult for management not to sign him to a long term deal. At the level he was playing, that would have cost the Colts a good bit of money when he becomes a Restricted Free Agent after the season. Could that have been a factor in the decision to start the undrafted free agent? I guess everyone will have their opinion on that issue. I will keep mine to myself. I am a newbie on this site and don't claim to know the Colts like many of you. I have always liked the Colts but I liked AQ Shipley from Penn State and even earlier. I may not have 20,000 posts on this site, but I have coached and followed line play for 30+ years. I do not believe Harrison has played as well as Shipley and the experts at PFF agree. It is not even close. Some of you will say that PFF does not know what they are talking about. We could argue that point, but players and agents use the grading on PFF to leverage better deals during contract negotiations. That is a known fact. I doubt Shipley is in the Colts plans after this season. We will see if it was the correct decision in the long term. So far, it has been the wrong decision. I have also seen experienced posters on here claim that Harrision has a much greater upside. There is no validity to that statement. Shipley had only started 5 games at Center two years ago in his previous stint as a Colt. He was not a seasoned veteran on the down side of his career. To the contrary, his continued improvement would have indicated that he had quite a bit of upside. Here are the facts of the Harrison vs Shipley debate according to PFF:

 

They have both started 4 games for the Colts this season.

 

Shipley 319 snaps,

Game 1   +1.0

Game 2   +1.1

Game 3   +3.6

Game 4   -0.5

TOTAL     +5.2   That averages to +1.3 per game. Had he averaged that for all 8 games this season (assuming he would have continued to start), he would be firmly entrenched as the number 2 Center in the NFL at midseason. I wonder what that would have cost to resign him?

 

Harrison 320 snaps

Game 5   -1.7

Game 6   +1.4

Game 7   +0.7

Game 8   +0.3

TOTAL     +0.7 That averages to +0.175 per game. Had he averaged that for all 8 games he would be the 16 ranked Center in the NFL. Not bad, especially since he is locked in for 2 more years at his league minimum salary.

 

Also, PFF grades do not attribute any negative score to Harrison for the flubbed snap that Watt picked up and ran for a touchdown. I know - Luck took full responsibility for that. I don't buy it. That almost cost the Colts that game except the Texans Offense was inept that day. Luck tripped over someone's foot that caused the safety against the Steelers. I guess it happens but it never happened with Shipley. Just a coincidence maybe.

 

Yes, I am a Newbie and a Shipley fan. Have been for a long time since watching him in High School since I am a Pittsburgh native. I would ask any of you this: Had you busted your butt for years to get an opportunity to start and finally did, and then you performed at a very high level (grading out 3rd in NFL after a quarter of the season), and they benched you for an undrafted free agent that has not performed nearly as well as you after getting the same opportunity; how would you feel? More importantly than Shipley's feelings, how was this a good move for the Colts?

 

We all know the NFL is a business and if you want to argue that the Shipley benching was a good business move for the Colts, I could buy that argument much easier.

[SteelCityColt]

That is correct. Shipley makes a bit more than Harrison, but not much. 

 

I'm now confused because I've got it  down as the other way around..... 

[temujin1227]

I'm now confused because I've got it  down as the other way around..... 

Shipley is in his 3rd year. He makes $570,000 as a base pay this year (2014). Harrision is in his first year. he makes $420,000.00 as his base pay. Harrison is signed for 2 more years at league minimum, but Shipley is a Restricted Free Agent in 2015.

[Coffeedrinker]

That is correct. Shipley makes a bit more than Harrison, but not much. However, had Shipley continued to rank in the top 5 Centers in the NFL, had they started him the rest of the season, he would have entrenched himself with the fans and made it difficult for management not to sign him to a long term deal. At the level he was playing, that would have cost the Colts a good bit of money when he becomes a Restricted Free Agent after the season. Could that have been a factor in the decision to start the undrafted free agent? I guess everyone will have their opinion on that issue. I will keep mine to myself. I am a newbie on this site and don't claim to know the Colts like many of you. I have always liked the Colts but I liked AQ Shipley from Penn State and even earlier. I may not have 20,000 posts on this site, but I have coached and followed line play for 30+ years. I do not believe Harrison has played as well as Shipley and the experts at PFF agree. It is not even close. Some of you will say that PFF does not know what they are talking about. We could argue that point, but players and agents use the grading on PFF to leverage better deals during contract negotiations. That is a known fact. I doubt Shipley is in the Colts plans after this season. We will see if it was the correct decision in the long term. So far, it has been the wrong decision. I have also seen experienced posters on here claim that Harrision has a much greater upside. There is no validity to that statement. Shipley had only started 5 games at Center two years ago in his previous stint as a Colt. He was not a seasoned veteran on the down side of his career. To the contrary, his continued improvement would have indicated that he had quite a bit of upside. Here are the facts of the Harrison vs Shipley debate according to PFF:

 

They have both started 4 games for the Colts this season.

 

Shipley 319 snaps,

Game 1   +1.0

Game 2   +1.1

Game 3   +3.6

Game 4   -0.5

TOTAL     +5.2   That averages to +1.3 per game. Had he averaged that for all 8 games this season (assuming he would have continued to start), he would be firmly entrenched as the number 2 Center in the NFL at midseason. I wonder what that would have cost to resign him?

 

Harrison 320 snaps

Game 5   -1.7

Game 6   +1.4

Game 7   +0.7

Game 8   +0.3

TOTAL     +0.7 That averages to +0.175 per game. Had he averaged that for all 8 games he would be the 16 ranked Center in the NFL. Not bad, especially since he is locked in for 2 more years at his league minimum salary.

 

Also, PFF grades do not attribute any negative score to Harrison for the flubbed snap that Watt picked up and ran for a touchdown. I know - Luck took full responsibility for that. I don't buy it. That almost cost the Colts that game except the Texans Offense was inept that day. Luck tripped over someone's foot that caused the safety against the Steelers. I guess it happens but it never happened with Shipley. Just a coincidence maybe.

 

Yes, I am a Newbie and a Shipley fan. Have been for a long time since watching him in High School since I am a Pittsburgh native. I would ask any of you this: Had you busted your butt for years to get an opportunity to start and finally did, and then you performed at a very high level (grading out 3rd in NFL after a quarter of the season), and they benched you for an undrafted free agent that has not performed nearly as well as you after getting the same opportunity; how would you feel? More importantly than Shipley's feelings, how was this a good move for the Colts?

 

We all know the NFL is a business and if you want to argue that the Shipley benching was a good business move for the Colts, I could buy that argument much easier.

Well, all I can say is you are a brilliant football mind and your insight into the game is astounding.  I will also say that I feel that way because you agree with me.  As soon as you disagree with me then my view on your football mind will be re-evaluated. ;).

 

I agree, I don't think Harrison has played as well as Shipley unlike you though, I'm not a huge Shipley fan.  I didn't think he was playing like a top 5 center before but I thought he was doing pretty good.  When I ask about why Harrison has more upside, I get the "he's younger" answer.  I will say I think Harrison is stronger than Shipley and I think he does a better job of not abandoning his area in pass protection.  But I don't think Harrison moves as well as Ship, nor do I think he is as powerful once engages as Shipley.  Also I think Shipley has much better balance than Harrison, especially once engaged with a defender.

[SteelCityColt]

Shipley is in his 3rd year. He makes $570,000 as a base pay this year (2014). Harrision is in his first year. he makes $420,000.00 as his base pay. Harrison is signed for 2 more years at league minimum, but Shipley is a Restricted Free Agent in 2015.

 

Ahh I'm being stupid today! 

[braveheartcolt]

Ahh I'm being stupid today! 

 Today?

[SteelCityColt]

Today?

At least I'm consistent.

[temujin1227]

Well, all I can say is you are a brilliant football mind and your insight into the game is astounding.  I will also say that I feel that way because you agree with me.  As soon as you disagree with me then my view on your football mind will be re-evaluated. ;).

 

I agree, I don't think Harrison has played as well as Shipley unlike you though, I'm not a huge Shipley fan.  I didn't think he was playing like a top 5 center before but I thought he was doing pretty good.  When I ask about why Harrison has more upside, I get the "he's younger" answer.  I will say I think Harrison is stronger than Shipley and I think he does a better job of not abandoning his area in pass protection.  But I don't think Harrison moves as well as Ship, nor do I think he is as powerful once engages as Shipley.  Also I think Shipley has much better balance than Harrison, especially once engaged with a defender.

LOL--- I guess I will soon be in the doghouse with you : (. That bums me out since I did appreciate your support : )

 

I completely disagree about Harrison being stronger. I have always felt there are two aspects to an Offensive Lineman's strength. First would be physical strength and second would be what I called game strength. I am sure there are many different names to describe what I call game strength. Physical strength is a tangible and is not difficult to assess. Game strength is more difficult, but I would argue that you could measure an Offensive Lineman's game strength by determining how many times (compared to others) that he is pushed straight back more than three steps from his initial plant.

On the physical strength question, here are the combine scores of both players.

 

                    Harrison          Shipley

40 yd dash      5.07                5.19

20 yd dash      2.96                2.93

10 yd dash      1.83                1.72

Bench 225         27                   33

Vertical Jump    27"                  31"

Broad Jump      9'5"                 8'4"

20 Shuttle         4.86                4.4

3 cone              7.97                7.46

 

Shipley not only had a stronger bench than Harrison, he is faster and is a better athlete per almost every measureable (except broad jump). The 10 yard dash is most important for lineman and Shipley's is very good. Of course, leg strength is not measured at the combine. When Shipley was with the Steelers, I saw him and Willie Colon lifting at the gym I frequent on several occasions. At the time, Colon was widely considered the strongest Steeler. Colon had a slightly better bench than Shipley, but he was not as strong in the legs. Shipley out squatted him. Another factor is that Shipley is a good bit stronger than his combine days and his first year with the Steelers when I saw him and Colon in the gym. Harrison just went to the combine last spring so he could not have developed much more strength in a short amount of time. So, the physical strength edge would be Shipley's. As for the game day strength, I think that is easy. Count how many snaps that Shipley or Harrison were pushed straight back (bullrushed) more than three steps after the snap and they had planted. I think you will find that Harrison was pushed back three steps at least 50% more than Shipley. I honestly have not counted them individually but I always made a mental note when watching either player. If anyone has actually counted, I would be interested in the numbers. If I am wrong, I will graciously admit my mistake : )

[NewColtsFan]

And I can almost guarantee my entire apple juice supply that if the coaches hand Landry the starting job back, they'll be problems in the locker room and the media will attack with questions as to why that decision was made

And then also of course....... This forum will ERUPT!!!

 

There won't be problems in the locker-room.    We have the strongest locker-room in football. 

 

And we've had other more controversial issues on the team without locker-room problems, so we'll be fine.

 

Do you remember Sampson Satele?    Darrius Heyward-Bey?      Trent Richardson?     Mike McGlynn?

 

The only person you're going to hurt with your guarantees.........    is you.

[southwest1]

Ahh I'm being stupid today! 

 

 

 Today?

 

 

At least I'm consistent.

It's exchanges like this that keep me coming back to the forum like a legal drug. Curiosity killed the cat yes that's true, but the satisfaction was well worth it man. Some people came here for information, some people come here to broaden their NFL knowledge, Me? I just came here to laugh my caboose off & be entertained.

 

Thanks BHC & SCC! You guys are alright. I appreciate the chuckle & self deprecation lesson fellas. Bravo. Just for the record, neither 1 of you guys are stupid. Quite the contrary actually, which is why this brief exchange is hilarious to me on a whole other level. 

[BOTT]

2014 Season

Trent Richardson: 358 Rushing Yards 3.5 YPC

Ahmad Bradshaw: 371 Rushing Yards 4.9 YPC

While Bradshaw has the higher YPC average, Trent still has similar numbers to Ahmad

Coming from the kid that once compared the winters in Atlanta to winters in Minneapolis

[Coffeedrinker]

LOL--- I guess I will soon be in the doghouse with you : (. That bums me out since I did appreciate your support : )

 

I completely disagree about Harrison being stronger. I have always felt there are two aspects to an Offensive Lineman's strength. First would be physical strength and second would be what I called game strength. I am sure there are many different names to describe what I call game strength. Physical strength is a tangible and is not difficult to assess. Game strength is more difficult, but I would argue that you could measure an Offensive Lineman's game strength by determining how many times (compared to others) that he is pushed straight back more than three steps from his initial plant.

On the physical strength question, here are the combine scores of both players.

 

                    Harrison          Shipley

40 yd dash      5.07                5.19

20 yd dash      2.96                2.93

10 yd dash      1.83                1.72

Bench 225         27                   33

Vertical Jump    27"                  31"

Broad Jump      9'5"                 8'4"

20 Shuttle         4.86                4.4

3 cone              7.97                7.46

 

Shipley not only had a stronger bench than Harrison, he is faster and is a better athlete per almost every measureable (except broad jump). The 10 yard dash is most important for lineman and Shipley's is very good. Of course, leg strength is not measured at the combine. When Shipley was with the Steelers, I saw him and Willie Colon lifting at the gym I frequent on several occasions. At the time, Colon was widely considered the strongest Steeler. Colon had a slightly better bench than Shipley, but he was not as strong in the legs. Shipley out squatted him. Another factor is that Shipley is a good bit stronger than his combine days and his first year with the Steelers when I saw him and Colon in the gym. Harrison just went to the combine last spring so he could not have developed much more strength in a short amount of time. So, the physical strength edge would be Shipley's. As for the game day strength, I think that is easy. Count how many snaps that Shipley or Harrison were pushed straight back (bullrushed) more than three steps after the snap and they had planted. I think you will find that Harrison was pushed back three steps at least 50% more than Shipley. I honestly have not counted them individually but I always made a mental note when watching either player. If anyone has actually counted, I would be interested in the numbers. If I am wrong, I will graciously admit my mistake : )

You are not worth discussing things with now.

 

The combine numbers are nice but that is not what I'm basing my comment on.  And the bench press numbers don't mean anything to me, especially since Ship has much shorter arms than Harrison.  And you may be correct but my perception of watching them is when Harrison gets his hands on a defender, he a) gets his arms locked out more often than Ship and B can keep the defender from breaking the lock.  Harrison is better than Ship in that category.  But, like I said, I think Ship has more power than Harrison when engaged, what I mean by that is that when Ship has a defender locked up he seems better at moving the guy where he wants to than Harrison.

 

You are I are in the minority on the forum in thinking that Shipley is better than Harrison but to me it's almost the Ship/Satele situation all over again.  It's just Harrison looks better than Satele because he(Harrison) is getting better guard play than Satele ever had, so Harrison is not exposed as much.

[southwest1]

  As soon as you disagree with me then my view on your football mind will be re-evaluated. ;).

 

 

Cute CD. Cute. We do tend to like people who agree with our point of view yes, but we often remember individuals who challenge us on an intellectual level. Nice George Orwell vintage "1984" reference though. Well played. 

 

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." Just kidding! Okay, I will shut up now & put my sarcastic button on hold or pause now. 

[Bravo]

I didn't even know that Trent Richardson was hurt. "(hamstring): Richardson will be ready to go this week." I just figured that Pags & Grigs sat him down because they figured that his running yards was was low that it wasn't gonna cut it inside 3 Rivers Stadium. I was just glad to see RB Dan Herron get more touches. That kid can get to the 2nd level something TR rarely if ever does.

I like how hard TR is working & his attitude but his production leaves a lot to be desired. I know Chuck loves em. Me? Not so much...I wanna like TR, but his lack of yards per carry between the tackles is really starting to frustrate me. Sigh...

He's having a much better season this year! And Boom is a good back! We are lucky to have 3 good backs. But Boom has also gotten his work at end of games in some garbage time... I'm not sure what TRich YPC is this year but it's close to or a little above average I would think.

(Above posts have confirmed my thoughts)

[temujin1227]

You are not worth discussing things with now.

 

The combine numbers are nice but that is not what I'm basing my comment on.  And the bench press numbers don't mean anything to me, especially since Ship has much shorter arms than Harrison.  And you may be correct but my perception of watching them is when Harrison gets his hands on a defender, he a) gets his arms locked out more often than Ship and B can keep the defender from breaking the lock.  Harrison is better than Ship in that category.  But, like I said, I think Ship has more power than Harrison when engaged, what I mean by that is that when Ship has a defender locked up he seems better at moving the guy where he wants to than Harrison.

 

You are I are in the minority on the forum in thinking that Shipley is better than Harrison but to me it's almost the Ship/Satele situation all over again.  It's just Harrison looks better than Satele because he(Harrison) is getting better guard play than Satele ever had, so Harrison is not exposed as much.

 

 

I am sure I am in the minority, but I feel my opinion is based on substance and has merit. Frankly, I agree with your assessment. Harrison does get his arms locked out more consistently than Shipley. If you had longer arms, you would tend to make first contact with your opponent more often which would naturally result in getting your arms locked out more frequently. However, if you could not control your opponent when you have him locked out, what would be the advantage of being more consistent at it? Shipley does have short arms and has adapted his play to compensate. I think he has done well.

In any case, it does not matter what any of us think, it matters what the coaches think and they disagree with me, : ). In defense of them, if I am wrong in my amateur opinion, my friends or you can tell me I am full of it. If the Coaches are wrong, they lose high paying jobs. I would assume they value those jobs and would make every effort to make any important decision based on all available facts. They probably just have better information than me. I am but a humble amateur : )