REPORT: Adrian Peterson indicted on child abuse...

[Sports Central1]

I guess what troubles the most & perhaps this is just my take on this is that a parent cannot reason with a small child in the same way you can with a full fledged adult. #1: Their brains are still developing & #2: Like I've said repeatedly in this thread: Small children comprehend 2 things very well--Fear & Pain.

 

My dad was 6 ft 5, 250 pounds, with gorilla hands & a booming voice. When he was ticked off at you, I knew it as well as my sister. He would tell you by name to settle down & cool off. If you persisted being unruly, he would count to 3. If you got to 3, he gave you a raised eyebrow look as if to say "If you back off now, you can still emerge unscathed. Choose your next actions or words very, very carefully SW1." 

 

If you still pushed the envelope, the crap was about to hit the fan & it was not gonna end well for me meaning a sore red butt not a concussion BTW.

 

Here's my point: My dad gave me ample opportunities to back down with a look or his booming voice & if I decided to live dangerously I deserved my fate. Plus, my dad had long arms & legs & you weren't gonna out run him. I tried that once & failed miserably like a chetah taking down a giselle. LOL! 

 

 

If your dad was 5'7" and 160 pounds with a high pitched voice would you still be intimidated by him?  If you were Shaquille O'Neal's size I doubt he'd try to hit you.

 

Basically he used his physical size to impose himself on others.  

[amfootball]

Well until you have a child you have no clue what raising one is like. Not every child responds to being put in timeout.

I agree. You know what I try to do an often fail it because of not remembering is praising my kids when they do things well instead of taking their good actions for granted. I don't mean over the top praising but an acknowledgement. It has made them want to do more of the good vs the bad stuff. Of course my older kids are 7 and 9 and can be reasoned with.

[chad72]

I agree. You know what I try to do an often fail it because of not remembering is praising my kids when they do things well instead of taking their good actions for granted. I don't mean over the top praising but an acknowledgement. It has made them want to do more of the good vs the bad stuff. Of course my older kids are 7 and 9 and can be reasoned with.

 

Yep. When my daughter says and does the right things, we let her fill a box with colored stones that we keep handy for filling that box. Once she gets to 40 stones, she gets a small prize, nothing fancy, just a whole box of dollar general stuff she gets to choose prizes from . It is a small way of rewarding her but it goes a long way to punishing her too because I can take those stones from the box and keep track of it for any egregious form of bad behavior and she knows that it would take that much longer to fill it back again. 

 

Once she grows up, the prizes will start getting better but the concept of right and wrong is taught in a cumulative way.

[Buck Showalter]

 

.

 

I don't have kids because I don't want any.

obviously...

 

If your dad was 5'7" and 160 pounds with a high pitched voice would you still be intimidated by him?  If you were Shaquille O'Neal's size I doubt he'd try to hit you.

 

Basically he used his physical size to impose himself on others.  

There's this thing called genetics, which would probably not allow this...

maybe, but probably not...

[Sports Central1]

obviously...

 

There's this thing called genetics, which would probably not allow this...

maybe, but probably not...

 

I don't have to have kids to know someone is a horrible parent and call them out, just like you don't need to be a football player to know Tim Tebow isn't a good QB.

[Buck Showalter]

I don't have to have kids to know someone is a horrible parent and call them out, just like you don't need to be a football player to know Tim Tebow isn't a good QB.

 

good analogy...

[southwest1]

If your dad was 5'7" and 160 pounds with a high pitched voice would you still be intimidated by him?  If you were Shaquille O'Neal's size I doubt he'd try to hit you.

 

Basically he used his physical size to impose himself on others.  

Yes, my dad did use his strength, size, & stature to become like a menacing giant when he needed to show us who was in charge & when we needed to respect our family, our elders, & knock us down a peg when we should have known better. Make no mistake though: Steve did spank me & when he did it I deserved it & I am grateful he did just that. And that discipline made me the man I am today.  

 

My father wasn't an ogre. He just wasn't going to tolerate any nonsense or kids who were getting too big for their britches SC1. So your dad had a high pitched voice so what? Are you saying that real strength comes from patience & positive examples of good behavior? That approach doesn't work with small children. Sorry that is the land of make believe & bribing a kid with a treat or a favorite toy like some parents do doesn't teach kids good behavior. It teaches them a reward system based on extortion. In other words, buy me this toy & I won't throw a temper tantrum in this store in under 12 seconds. 

 

Where it gets tricky is when people universally tell others how to raise their own kids. I have a real problem with that 1 size fits all disciplinary approach. 

 

No disrespected intended BTW. I'm sure the parents who raised you were fine, upstanding citizens who did the best they could with the standards available the time at their disposal SC1. 

[Kirie89]

I have never been so disappointed in this forum and its members as I am after reading some of these comments. There is clearly a big difference in how parenting works in the US from Norway. That so many feel like spanking and otherwise physically disciplining your child is ok and a part of parenting is mind boggling to me.

 

This is something you cannot do to criminals in jail, officers can’t do it to soldiers in the military, husbands can’t do it to their wives against their will, you can’t do it to strangers and you cannot do it to animals, but to defenseless children it is ok.

 

I would like anybody to find a study that showed that this was a good thing for the children. And the argument that this is how it was done when I was young is not a good one.

[jvan1973]

I have never been so disappointed in this forum and its members as I am after reading some of these comments. There is clearly a big difference in how parenting works in the US from Norway. That so many feel like spanking and otherwise physically disciplining your child is ok and a part of parenting is mind boggling to me.

This is something you cannot do to criminals in jail, officers can’t do it to soldiers in the military, husbands can’t do it to their wives against their will, you can’t do it to strangers and you cannot do it to animals, but to defenseless children it is ok.

I would like anybody to find a study that showed that this was a good thing for the children. And the argument that this is how it was done when I was young is not a good one.

Spanking is only a part of disciplining a child if other avenues have not worked. Not all kids need to be spanked, some do. Having said that, what Peterson did was not spanking

[DougDew]

I have never been so disappointed in this forum and its members as I am after reading some of these comments. There is clearly a big difference in how parenting works in the US from Norway. That so many feel like spanking and otherwise physically disciplining your child is ok and a part of parenting is mind boggling to me.

 

This is something you cannot do to criminals in jail, officers can’t do it to soldiers in the military, husbands can’t do it to their wives against their will, you can’t do it to strangers and you cannot do it to animals, but to defenseless children it is ok.

 

I would like anybody to find a study that showed that this was a good thing for the children. And the argument that this is how it was done when I was young is not a good one.

This is not really a place to discuss social policy.  And not all of is in America have euro-envy or think that studies are objective...especially those that are used to support a particular social policy.  In all of your examples, you describe an individual that is capable of responding to reason....except animals...but you can whip a horse during a horse race.

 

Child abuse and child discipline are two different things, even though they may both involve some level of physical discomfort.  If a kid doesn't listen to words...or comprehend the consequences of what a parent is saying...it is not unreasonable to use some type of physical persuation.  I would think that when marks are left on a child, even temporary marks, it probably crosses the line.

 

Its much better to let judges and jurys sort that out during discovery and deliberation, rather than members of a company's profit seeking management team.  While the judicial system is not perfect...at least objectivity is a stated goal.  The goal for a company is image and profit.

[southwest1]

I have never been so disappointed in this forum and its members as I am after reading some of these comments. There is clearly a big difference in how parenting works in the US from Norway. That so many feel like spanking and otherwise physically disciplining your child is ok and a part of parenting is mind boggling to me.

 

This is something you cannot do to criminals in jail, officers can’t do it to soldiers in the military, husbands can’t do it to their wives against their will, you can’t do it to strangers and you cannot do it to animals, but to defenseless children it is ok.

 

I would like anybody to find a study that showed that this was a good thing for the children. And the argument that this is how it was done when I was young is not a good one.

I respect your POV k-89 even though I personally believe that some form of last resort spanking of a child is a good thing. Show me a kid who wasn't spanked & I will show you a spoiled brat/narcissistic adult.

 

Yes, I am admit that there are some wonderful kids who grew into responsible adults who never got spanked, but that is extremely rare. I will also acknowledge that spanking a child won't guarantee a perfect, law abiding adult that's true, but by & large kids who were spanked typically evolve into a positive, contributing member of society who won't embarrass their parents. JMO. 

[Kirie89]

I respect your POV k-89 even though I personally believe that some form of last resort spanking of a child is a good thing. Show me a kid who wasn't spanked & I will show you a spoiled brat/narcissistic adult.

 

Yes, I am admit that there are some wonderful kids who grew into responsible adults who never got spanked, but that is extremely rare. I will also acknowledge that spanking a child won't guarantee a perfect, law abiding adult that's true, but by & large kids who were spanked typically evolve into a positive, contributing member of society who won't embarrass their parents. JMO. 

 

I admit that it is hard to discuss these things when we grew up in different cultures. I was never spanked, none of my parents was, none of my friends was and I don’t really think I have ever met anybody that was. Of course it probably happens here also, but it is not common.

 

I don’t see any positives from it and that’s what most people here think. It was normal in Norway once upon a time, but not so much the last 50-60 years.

 

Of course I understand that if you grow up in a society where it is accepted and normal it is normal to agree with that.

 

 

but you can whip a horse during a horse race.

 

Just to show another difference, you are not allowed to whip your horse in a race in Norway.

 

I admit I was a little shocked because I thought it was a thing of the past most places in the western world. And I didn’t know it was so widespread and accepted in the US.

[Bobbycovert]

I get what you're saying BVC & I will concede that positive reinforcement does have some merit, but I was spanked as a kid & I wasn't scarred for life or pursue a career in the seedy underbelly of drugs, guns, or treating women or children without disrespect. Did Adrian go overboard? Yes. Would I deem this marks child abuse in his son's case? Yes. 

 

Here where I differ with you. Say you have a curious child who loves to run & she does pay attention to where she is going & what she is doing. Lets also pretend that you as the father live near a major highway where drivers routinely fly by your house just in front of it at 75-80 MPH. Now, I ask you is a treat, a timeout, or encouragement gonna stop that carefree running girl from running onto the pavement & get struck or god forbid run over by a car or a semi? Fear & a red butt go a long way toward making the little girl think Gee if I go near the pavement I'm gonna get a red behind maybe I should think twice about playing near the highway.

 

Timeouts don't work & bribing a kid with candy is going lead to diabetes later in their life. I'm growing weary of so many people saying that all corporal punishment must cease & desist immediately. It's not realistic & it doesn't help raise responsible well adjusted adults. JMO.

 

I get what your are saying hypothetically BVT & your post does have merit, but it is possible to discipline a child by spanking them which is not child abuse BTW. I remember my red butt lessons well & I was not horrifically scared for life either. And for people who cringe at physical discipline I wanna ask them do they have children of their own? A lot of people who dislike spanking little ones have no children themselves. Naturally, any parent is free to use whatever method they want to teach their children proper behavior provided excessive cruelty is not used.  

 

First off, I appreciate your reply.  The scenario you provided is not uncommon in my field.  Elopement is a common challenging behavior with a lot of kids.  I feel like you may have misunderstood the behavioral approach so I'll explain how I might handle your scenario.

 

First, you have to understand why the child is engaging in the behavior.  You mentioned curiosity so lets go with that.  Here is an example of a behavior intervention plan I might suggest in this situation.

• Decide on a safe zone where the child is allowed to play freely (make sure there is some sort of physical marker that makes the boundary visible) You can start with a small boundary and increase the size as the child shows that he/she can follow the rules.
• Explicitly explain the boundary to the child and explain the contingencies associated with outside play as well as the danger of leaving the safe zone ( ie. explain that they could be hurt if they leave the zone). Also,  if they leave the safe zone they have to come inside for a time-out.  Staying within the zone results in extended play time, verbal praise, etc.
• You have to address the function of the challenging behavior by teaching the child an appropriate response that fulfills their needs.  In this example, the child runs off because of curiosity.  Teach the child that if they want to leave the zone to investigate something, they need to ask you to accompany them.  When they ask, honor the request and do your best to make the experience fun.  This teaches them an appropriate way to get what they want and rewards them for doing the right thing.

     This is a really brief and simple example of one way to address elopement without having to hit.  Aside from creating a boundary and explaining the "rules" to the child it doesn't require much more work than corporal punishment.  Would this work for every child? No, no behavior plan (even corporal punishment) works for every situation but this would be as likely to work as spanking.  

     Spanking in this situation would simply teach the child that they would be hit if they left the "safe zone" while you are around.  It doesn't teach them why they need to stay close to the house or an appropriate way to get to venture out if they see something interesting across the street.  You would still have to watch them like a hawk so you could spank them when they go too far.  Really, the immediate consequence of spanking is what makes it so appealing to the discipliner.  The unwanted behavior stops immediately which reinforces the behavior (spanking).  

    With regard to you other points.  There are a multitude of punishment procedures that do not involve hitting (time-out, response cost, overcorrection, extinction).  Saying time-outs don't work is really an incomplete assessment.  If a plan doesn't work then you have missed something, chosen the wrong plan or misjudged the reason behind the child's behavior.  I also want to be very clear about something.  What I do is not "bribing with candy".  There are countless ways to reward children for doing the right thing and rewarding people is not bribing.  We are all awarded for the things we do whether we realize it or not.  It is a huge part of how we learn what behaviors to adopt and which ones to abandon. Sorry for the super long post but I really wanted to help you understand what I am talking about.  If anything above seems vague or doesn't make sense just let me know.