Collin Kaepernick allegedly being investigated for sexual assault.

[amfootball]

Ask them questions on an individual basis.  

 

And for the record why doesn't that apply to the accuser?  What if others know the individual making the accusation and know's they are serial liar who routinely makes things up or someone who will do absolutely anything to get revenge on someone??

 

It works both ways.  Defense has the right to get witnesses too to question the credibility of the accuser.  

Because the accuser has had their will violated. It is not perfect, I agree. But the victim even if lying should be protected.

[jvan1973]

Because the accuser has had their will violated. It is not perfect, I agree. But the victim even if lying should be protected.

why should they be protected if they are lying?

[amfootball]

why should they be protected if they are lying?

Because you can't prove they are lying. So the protection is there for the violated. You can't do it after the fact otherwise you cause undue to anguish to the violated. Like I said, it is imperfect but you have to err on the side of the victim.

[amfootball]

Well I hate it when people go the other way and call someone a rapist without any evidence.

 

Sounds to me like this woman got drunk and high and doesn't remember jack squat and doesn't even think they had sex this time (although she's had sex with him before.)  

 

But don't let that derail the Colin * train.  Because facts are hard, saying someone's guilty of a serious crime without any evidence to support it is easy.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/niners/2014/04/10/colin-kaepernick-investigation/7550297/

What do you mean without evidence? She was undressed, saw two other men looking at her and then woke up in the hospital. Whether she was drinking or smoked pot or had a previous relationship with Kaepernick is irrelevant if she was taken against her will.

[Qwiz]

Hey, at least Kaepernick hasn't been spending the offseason making a logo for himself or anything like that. Because that would be concerning.  

[Qwiz]

What do you mean without evidence? She was undressed, saw two other men looking at her and then woke up in the hospital. Whether she was drinking or smoked pot or had a previous relationship with Kaepernick is irrelevant if she was taken against her will.

I think what he's saying is she can't really remember if anything happened at all, though I'm sure doctors should be able to confirm if anything happened while she was inebriated the night before.

[jvan1973]

Because you can't prove they are lying. So the protection is there for the violated. You can't do it after the fact otherwise you cause undue to anguish to the violated. Like I said, it is imperfect but you have to err on the side of the victim.

if proven to be lying they should face the same penalty as the rapist should get. That would deter that sort of thing

[amfootball]

I think what he's saying is she can't really remember if anything happened, though I'm sure doctors should be able to confirm if anything happened while she was inebriated the night before.

Sure but the women Sharper raped didn't remember either. She could have easily been slipped something in her drink or smoked more than what she thought was pot and was raped unconscious.

[amfootball]

if proven to be lying they should face the same penalty as the rapist should get. That would deter that sort of thing

Lying is not the same as being raped. But I agree there should be some type of penalty for them for sure.

[Qwiz]

Sure but the women Sharper raped didn't remember either. She could have easily been slipped something in her drink or smoked more than what she thought was pot and was raped unconscious.

True. I'm sure we'll be getting the details about what really happened sooner rather than later.  

[amfootball]

True. I'm sure we'll be getting the details about what really happened sooner rather than later.  

Yeah, I think what is interesting is she woke in a hospital. If she was in fact raped there would be physical evidence that the doctor's would have found or the evidence of assault, bruises and such.

[Qwiz]

Yeah, I think what is interesting is she woke in a hospital. If she was in fact raped there would be physical evidence that the doctor's would have found or the evidence of assault, bruises and such.

Yep that's what I was talking about in my previous post. There are ways for doctors to figure this kind of stuff out, if the victim lets them.

[amfootball]

Yep that's what I was talking about in my previous post. There are ways for doctors to figure this kind of stuff out, if she lets them.

The fact that she is pressing charges after being in the hospital leads me to believe that she has evidence from the doctors. But we will see.

 

Kaep is flight out denying everything as one would suspect, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10766878/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-says-tmz-story-completely-wrong

[Qwiz]

The fact that she is pressing charges after being in the hospital leads me to believe that she has evidence from the doctors. But we will see.

 

Kaep is flight out denying everything as one would suspect, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10766878/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-says-tmz-story-completely-wrong

Of course he is...I think it is against the law to incriminate yourself

[Shane Bond]

Very soon, wife is going to sue her husband for having intimacy.

[amfootball]

Very soon, wife is going to sue her husband for having intimacy.

Wives can charge their husbands for rape, it is called marital rape. No man, married to a woman or not has a right to force sex upon her. And by the way. most women are raped by men they know.

[amfootball]

Of course he is...I think it is against the law to incriminate yourself

The timing of this for him could not be worse given he has a new deal in the works with the niners that is supposed to pay him somewhere near 18 mil a year.

[jvan1973]

The fact that she is pressing charges after being in the hospital leads me to believe that she has evidence from the doctors. But we will see.

Kaep is flight out denying everything as one would suspect, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10766878/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-says-tmz-story-completely-wrong

she hasnt pressed charges. She isn't even sure anything happened

[Valpo2004]

Because you can't prove they are lying. So the protection is there for the violated. You can't do it after the fact otherwise you cause undue to anguish to the violated. Like I said, it is imperfect but you have to err on the side of the victim.

 

Except we where founded as a country who erred on the side of the accused.  You know that whole innocent until proven guilty thing and proof beyond a reasonable doubt??

 

It's not erring to either side to say that both parties deserve to have their names protected.  

[Qwiz]

The timing of this for him could not be worse given he has a new deal in the works with the niners that is supposed to pay him somewhere near 18 mil a year.

Yeah, horrible, horrible timing. I guess he will have to wait a while for that big deal, if it does come.

[NFLfan]

Defense lawyers are there to protect them in court. No one, absolutely no one can give them their reputation back once the accusation is made.

That's why their name needs to be withheld too. At the very least until a conviction.

You have made some good points, Valpo, as you usually do, but to say you doubt an accuser's story if she does not pursue charges diminishes your other very valid points. There are many reasons why women do not come forward or do not press charges, especially if it involves a defendant who can pay for the best attorneys to represent and defend him.

Having said that, I strongly support your main point that false accusations ruin players' reputations and that fans are too quick to demonize players. Many bring up the Duke Lacross players, but rarely do people mention those athletes who were wrongfully convicted like Brian Banks and Marcus Dixon who could not afford a strong defense and their careers were ruined. They spent years in jail. Was Mark Chmura eventually exonerated? If so, I believe his life was greatly impacted by a false report of sexual misconduct.

Anyone who makes false accusations should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[amfootball]

she hasnt pressed charges. She isn't even sure anything happened

She has filed an incident report. She is talking with the police to probably see if she has enough for a formal charge.

[Valpo2004]

You have made some good points, Valpo, as you usually do, but to say you doubt an accuser's story if she does not pursue charges diminishes your other very valid points. There are many reasons why women do not come forward or do not press charges, especially if it involves a defendant who can pay for the best attorneys to represent and defend him.

Having said that, I strongly support your main point that false accusations ruin players' reputations and that fans are too quick to demonize players. Many bring up the Duke Lacross players, but rarely do people mention those athletes who were wrongfully convicted like Brian Banks and Marcus Dixon who could not afford a strong defense and their careers were ruined. They spent years in jail. Was Mark Chmura eventually exonerated? If so, I believe his life was greatly impacted by a false report of sexual misconduct.

Anyone who makes false accusations should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

I actually didn't say I doubted a story if she takes a long time to make it.  I doubt a story if she makes a report and then asks the prosecutor to not prosecute the case.  

 

Rothlisberger's alleged victim asked the prosecutor to not prosecute the case.  

[amfootball]

Except we where founded as a country who erred on the side of the accused.  You know that whole innocent until proven guilty thing and proof beyond a reasonable doubt??

 

It's not erring to either side to say that both parties deserve to have their names protected.  

If the person did in fact assault or rape a person and this could either be a male or female then knowing their name and identity would be paramount to ensure that those that come in contact with them know they have been accused of a crime. I know if I was dating someone, I would want to know if he was being accused of rape and/or assault. Guys like Sharper have enough money for bail to be out on the streets drugging women while awaiting the legal process ...

[Valpo2004]

She has filed an incident report. She is talking with the police to probably see if she has enough for a formal charge.

 

On what basis.  No evidence any sex occured.  She got drunk and high and took off her clothes, expecting to have sex with Kap.  He left, she passed out and ended up in a hospital.  

 

Unless someone had sex with her while she was passed out there was no actual crime here other then they all smoked weed.  

[amfootball]

On what basis.  No evidence any sex occured.  She got drunk and high and took off her clothes, expecting to have sex with Kap.  He left, she passed out and ended up in a hospital.  

 

Unless someone had sex with her while she was passed out there was no actual crime here other then they all smoked weed.  

How do you know no sex took place? The woman passed out and does not remember but awoke in a hospital. And where did she say she was expecting to have sex with him? She said she went to lay down and he took her clothes off and then left and then she saw the other two men looking at her.

 

And there may be evidence of sex that the doctors found at the hospital that treated her.

[sweetsurrender]

On what basis.  No evidence any sex occured.  She got drunk and high and took off her clothes, expecting to have sex with Kap.  He left, she passed out and ended up in a hospital.  

 

Unless someone had sex with her while she was passed out there was no actual crime here other then they all smoked weed.  

Did you read the story? She was undressed and saw men looking at her and then passed out. There could evidence sex occurred which is why she has filed a complaint.

[Valpo2004]

If the person did in fact assault or rape a person and this could either be a male or female then knowing their name and identity would be paramount to ensure that those that come in contact with them know they have been accused of a crime. I know if I was dating someone, I would want to know if he was being accused of rape and/or assault. Guys like Sharper have enough money for bail to be out on the streets drugging women while awaiting the legal process ...

 

You do realize that serial rapists are fairly rare right?  Like most murders, most rapists only really have raped one person.  

 

On top of that when we consider people like that a danger to society they are denied bail.

 

Here is something from TMZ about it.  Apparently the prosecutors need to have "clear and convincing evidence" of guilt at the hearing to have bail denied.  If the case is as much of a slam dunk as most of us think it is, this shouldn't be a problem.  Especially since beyond a reasonable doubt is a higher standard of evidence and that's the standard they need for conviction.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/10/darren-sharper-freedom-within-reach/

[amfootball]

You do realize that serial rapists are fairly rare right?  Like most murders, most rapists only really have raped one person.  

 

On top of that when we consider people like that a danger to society they are denied bail.

 

Here is something from TMZ about it.  Apparently the prosecutors need to have "clear and convincing evidence" of guilt at the hearing to have bail denied.  If the case is as much of a slam dunk as most of us think it is, this shouldn't be a problem.  Especially since beyond a reasonable doubt is a higher standard of evidence and that's the standard they need for conviction.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/10/darren-sharper-freedom-within-reach/

You are doing an awful lot of assuming. It does not matter if serial rapists are rare or not. We are talking about protection for the victim and society at large. You have to err on the side of safety given the nature of the crime. I do think that if a woman or man is found to be lying about charges then they should be prosecuted for slander, etc. But society needs to know if a person is being accused of such a crime. And like you said to have bail denied is hard to get passed so even more reason to make the person's name known.

[Shane Bond]

Wives can charge their husbands for rape, it is called marital rape. No man, married to a woman or not has a right to force sex upon her. And by the way. most women are raped by men they know.

 I never knew there is a law existed like that. Marital rape.

 

I think we need to be classified as "endangered species".

[sweetsurrender]

The key to this whole story is what the woman was being treated for in the hospital. If she was in fact raped or assaulted there would be evidence that the doctors would have found. If she was being treated for being drunk, high or dehydrated then case closed but I don't think she would have filed the complaint without something backing her from the doctors.

[Qwiz]

 I never knew there is a law existed like that. Marital rape.

 

I think we need to be classified as "endangered species".

7 billion people would disagree with you.

[Shane Bond]

7 billion people would disagree with you.

I know you do and you talking for 7 billion people,not surprised.

 

Of course i was waiting for you to pick my post. How real.

[Qwiz]

I know you do and you talking for 7 billion people,not surprised.

 

Of course i was waiting for you to pick my post. How real.

Lol, I'm being criticized by a guy who thinks that the world is overpopulated by an endangered species. Pick your post? So you're only allowed to quote me and find fault with my stuff? GTF. And your thought process is disturbing if you think a man can have sex with his wife anytime he wants just because she is his wife, even if she says no.  

[OffensivelyPC]

Read the story yesterday. Sounsd to me like a couple of people were hanging out and that's it.  Why teh police were even calledi n to investigate at all is a mystery to me.  Until more comes out, I'm saying this was blown out of proportion as far as any report could.  That's TMZ for you.

[Shane Bond]

Lol, yeah, I like being criticized by a guy who thinks that the world is overpopulated by an endangered species. Pick your post? So you're only allowed to quote me and find fault with my stuff? GTF. And your thought process is disturbing if you think a man can have sex with his wife anytime he wants just because she is his wife, even if she says no.  

Honestly, i am lost.

 

Lets leave it at that.

[Qwiz]

Honestly, i am lost.

 

Lets leave it at that.

Well that's shocking.

[dgambill]

Like most cases there is simply too much speculating going on. I will ere on letting the justice system work this out. Not that the truth always wins out in these cases but simply none of us are in any position to even have any remotely informed position on such matters. I don't like to hear of those wrongly accused and feel both parties should be protected until enough evidence is found to charge someone. In the end you have to protect the perceived victim as well as you can. If the evidence is sufficient enough that they could be endangered by the perp physically, emotionally, or verbally they should not have to endure that any more than necessary. Its a horrible crime...one that if falsely accussed should carry a bigger punishment for the accusser and if found guilty should carry a bigger punishment for the perp. I can't imagine a more evil thing in the entire world outside murdering someone than rape..women, children, men...those that have to endure that nightmare...I can't imagine.

[Shane Bond]

Well that's shocking.

Look, i replied to AMF not your post.

 

You need to stop with your petty sarcasm jabs and lay off me.

[Qwiz]

Look, i replied to AMF not your post.

 

You need to stop with your petty sarcasm jabs and lay off me.

Nah, your last post you replied to me. And before that I quoted you like I have been quoting people all throughout this thread as I see fit. So you like to poke but not be poked back I see. Like you said, let's leave it at your last post: You're lost, even though you set yourself up there with your comments in the first place.