Our Biggest Defensive Problem Is The Lack Of Sacks (Considering Our Scheme).

[GoGoColts]

We would like to improve in run stopping, but considering the type of players that we try to draft, we should have at least 15 sacks at this point in the season. This of course translates into hits and overall QB pressure. The Giants are at 18 right now while we are at 9.

We only have 2 guys on the team who can get sacks consistently when it should be 3 or 4.

It's hard to argue that we would not have won at least 2 games if we had 6 more sacks.

[Dtman513]

We would have won more games if we were able to defend the pass, and stop other teams from driving the ball down the field....

The Pittsburgh game was our best run defense this season....Granted the Steelers O-line was banged up, but we contained them pretty well.....

The bigger issue is the secondary.....

[GoGoColts]

We would have won more games if we were able to defend the pass, and stop other teams from driving the ball down the field....

The Pittsburgh game was our best run defense this season....Granted the Steelers O-line was banged up, but we contained them pretty well.....

The bigger issue is the secondary.....

So sacking Big Ben or Cassel 3 more times each would not have won us those games? Our secondary had problems, but the guys we have on the defensive line are there because they are supposed to pressure the QB, but they never do.

Edited October 13, 2011 by GoGoColts

[Dtman513]

You can't just rely on sacks to win games on defense....Defending the run,and the pass are also crucial....

[GoGoColts]

You can't just rely on sacks to win games on defense....Defending the run,and the pass are also crucial....

Sacks don't translate into pass defense? Your assertion that these are all mutually exclusive makes no sense. Sacks are just a number that indicates the overall penetration and pressure that the D-line gets. Teams with a lot of sacks are getting lots of QB pressures.

These other things are problems, BUT we draft for light and fast so that they can make sacks and pressures. You expect to give up something in the run, BUT when these guys can't do what they are there to do (make a lot of sacks), we tend to point to the run as the problem.

Edited October 13, 2011 by GoGoColts

[doogansquest]

You are askng a defensive line to get more pressure and sacks, when opposing teams are expecting us to do just that.

Opposing teams are playing max protect against us and forcing us to stop the run, or defend long developing pass plays. We also played McCoy, Roethlisberger, and Freeman consecutively; 3 highly mobile QB's.

One doesn't just tell a defensive line to get more sacks and suddenly it happens. The other team has a plan too.

[GoGoColts]

You are askng a defensive line to get more pressure and sacks, when opposing teams are expecting us to do just that.

Opposing teams are playing max protect against us and forcing us to stop the run, or defend long developing pass plays. We also played McCoy, Roethlisberger, and Freeman consecutively; 3 highly mobile QB's.

Don't tell the Giants that.

One doesn't just tell a defensive line to get more sacks and suddenly it happens. The other team has a plan too.

Again, the Giants do it year after year. Second, complaining about this group of guys stopping the run isn't as valid of a criticism considering the scheme and their body types. They should be getting more sacks as that is what their purpose is.

Edited October 13, 2011 by GoGoColts

[Jason_]

It doesn't help that teams have long since figured out the tampa 2 coverage. Yes this coverage can work in some, SOME situations but on 1st and 2nd downs it should not be used at all, imo. Teams have figured out that all they need is one quick outlet over the middle and if Angerer takes one step backwards, you take that dump off because it will only be open (not Pat's fault).

It also doesn't help that we only have one true NT on the roster. Nevis is great at disrupting the line and getting penetration. However, on passing downs the Colts have shown tendency to bring in Foster and Nevis on passing downs. This turns Nevis into the NT so he gets double blocked, and any OG worth his salt should be able to contain or downright stop the hideously undersized Foster (I like Foster, but he needs to be moved to DE and never play DT again though considering how small he is, the fact he was able to be effective at some times is a credit to him). We need an additional NT, preferably one that is equally good against run and pass. We're not going to get one in free agency most likely so unless Rico Mathews or Ogbu (who was a NT in college) can improve then I really think NT needs to be one of the first issues addressed in the draft, yes even before CB because this is going to be a very rich draft for CBs but not so much for quality NT's.

Basically, someone needs to smack Caldwell and Coyer in the head and tell them that putting 4 smaller pass rushers in on passing downs does not necessarily equate to a better pass rush. Nevis is much more effective when he plays alongside AJ because AJ takes on multiple blockers, usually leaving Nevis 1 on 1. If Nevis is also double blocked then that leaves Freeney 1 on 1 or he gets chipped from a TE/RB which means one less receiver for the secondary to worry about. Putting all smaller guys in makes it easier for the opposing OL to win their 1 on 1 battles against the interior of our DL which allows them to focus more on doubling Freeney/Mathis without having to go all out mass protect.

Just my 0.02 cents

Edited October 13, 2011 by Jason

[GoGoColts]

I don't think that the Tampa II has been figured out. I think that Coyer and Caldwell have been exposed as horrible coaches.

[Dtman513]

It doesn't help that teams have long since figured out the tampa 2 coverage. Yes this coverage can work in some, SOME situations but on 1st and 2nd downs it should not be used at all, imo. Teams have figured out that all they need is one quick outlet over the middle and if Angerer takes one step backwards, you take that dump off because it will only be open (not Pat's fault).

It also doesn't help that we only have one true NT on the roster. Nevis is great at disrupting the line and getting penetration. However, on passing downs the Colts have shown tendency to bring in Foster and Nevis on passing downs. This turns Nevis into the NT so he gets double blocked, and any OG worth his salt should be able to contain or downright stop the hideously undersized Foster (I like Foster, but he needs to be moved to DE and never play DT again though considering how small he is, the fact he was able to be effective at some times is a credit to him). We need an additional NT, preferably one that is equally good against run and pass. We're not going to get one in free agency most likely so unless Rico Mathews or Ogbu (who was a NT in college) can improve then I really think NT needs to be one of the first issues addressed in the draft, yes even before CB because this is going to be a very rich draft for CBs but not so much for quality NT's.

Basically, someone needs to smack Caldwell and Coyer in the head and tell them that putting 4 smaller pass rushers in on passing downs does not necessarily equate to a better pass rush. Nevis is much more effective when he plays alongside AJ because AJ takes on multiple blockers, usually leaving Nevis 1 on 1. If Nevis is also double blocked then that leaves Freeney 1 on 1 or he gets chipped from a TE/RB which means one less receiver for the secondary to worry about. Putting all smaller guys in makes it easier for the opposing OL to win their 1 on 1 battles against the interior of our DL which allows them to focus more on doubling Freeney/Mathis without having to go all out mass protect.

Just my 0.02 cents

Well said.....Why they don't beef up the line on 3rd down is beyond me....

As for Nevis, I think we got ourselves a future stud........

[fthoodcoltsfan]

So sacking Big Ben or Cassel 3 more times each would not have won us those games? Our secondary had problems, but the guys we have on the defensive line are there because they are supposed to pressure the QB, but they never do.

I definitely think it's the secondary that has the bigger problems. You mention Big Ben here, so I'll go along with that. I don't know the exact stats, but I do know that we got quite a bit of pressure on him, and by the end of the game he was very worried about the pass rush. Don't you remember towards the end of the game when he was scrambling, and he was checking over his shoulder for Freeny (I think), and he got crushed by someone else? I think this is a good sign that the rush is getting to the other QB, and whoever it was that was covering the game that night showed it a few times and commented on it as well. Now sure, they could do better, but the secondary is a far bigger problem than the lack of sacks/pressure.

[doogansquest]

Don't tell the Giants that.

Again, the Giants do it year after year. Second, complaining about this group of guys stopping the run isn't as valid of a criticism considering the scheme and their body types. They should be getting more sacks as that is what their purpose is.

How good have they been since their miracle Super Bowl? Better than the Colts? Didn't think so. I don't care about the Giants.

You said our biggest defensive problem is the lack of sacks. The Giants don't run the same schemes we do, and they don't play the same teams we play. They also don't play against teams expecting Freeney and Mathis, and thus sticking extra TE's on the line and running in the gaps.

"Tell that to the Giants" doesn't answer those points. It doesn't counter or take away from the fact that teams are planning to do everything in their power to eliminate Freeney and Mathis. That tactic originated in the Super Bowl against the Saints.

1. 3-step drop. This prevents Freeney and Mathis from circling around the line in time to get to the QB.

2. Extra TE's in max protect. This significantly delays the pass rush of our speed ends, while also providing a QB with check down outlets should the initial routes be covered.

3. Backside blocking and delayed hand offs. This allows teams to pick up significant yardage on what would normally be passing downs because they are basically running where Freeney and Mathis used to be.

Those are the steps to beating our defensive ends right now. We're getting better with the rotation of Brayton and Anderson, as well as improved DT play (though Nevis and Moala are injured). We are also getting a lot of pressure on the QB's, but not quite forcing the sack.

The Giants don't play the same way, so other teams play them differently.

The Giants are 22nd in total defense right now. The Colts are 27th. Would the sacks be making up that difference?

The Giants are giving up 251 yards per game against the pass.

The Colts are giving up 254 yards per game against the pass.

Not a lot separates them, and we don't have an offense to help our defense out.

The Giants lead the league in sacks, yet they are 19th in pass defense. The Colts are 20th in pass defense. That means 18 teams performing better than the Giants against the pass have fewer sacks than them. 6 teams ahead of them have fewer than 9 sacks. Are those teams suffering without the sacks? Their defense is better than the Giants without them. Oh yeah, and we've forced more fumbles than have the Giants, and are giving up fewer yards to receivers than they are.

Your argument is just dead wrong.

Edited October 13, 2011 by doogansquest

[SanAntonioColt]

You can't just rely on sacks to win games on defense....Defending the run,and the pass are also crucial....

True. I guess the Colts have to get better players overall on defense. To GoGoColts point, if the Colts were getting more sacks and/or pressure on the opposing QB in general, it might cover for some of the inadequacy of the secondary.

[Smitto]

Getting sacks is not the colts problem, but it is a bit odd that the colts sacks are only 9 and the giants are 18.. i mean the colts have the best tandem in the league.. its probably because of all the dink and dunk that happens in the tampa 2.

[Jason_]

Getting sacks is not the colts problem, but it is a bit odd that the colts sacks are only 9 and the giants are 18.. i mean the colts have the best tandem in the league.. its probably because of all the dink and dunk that happens in the tampa 2.

As well as the decrease in playing time of Freeney and Mathis due to the addition of Anderson and Brayton for running downs. I said in a thread much earlier that I wouldn't be surprised if neither Freeney or Mathis reach double digit sacks this year because of Anderson and Brayton. Not saying it's a bad thing because Anderson and Brayton help on running downs, but I would like to see more mixup to the lineups. I really liked the lineup of Anderson, Johnson, Nevis and Freeney. To spell these guys we could bring in Mathis, Moala, Mathews and Brayton. Point being I think we'd get more consistent production by not playing Mathis and Freeney together on every down. No, Anderson nor Brayton are going to rack up a number of sacks, but by mixing things up in the lineups we don't put ourselves in a predictable defense. Teams see Freeney and Mathis, they're going to check to run anytime they can. Conversely when both Freeney and Mathis go to the sideline the other team is going to check to pass because they know the pass rush won't be nearly as heavy.

[Balzer40]

As well as the decrease in playing time of Freeney and Mathis due to the addition of Anderson and Brayton for running downs. I said in a thread much earlier that I wouldn't be surprised if neither Freeney or Mathis reach double digit sacks this year because of Anderson and Brayton. Not saying it's a bad thing because Anderson and Brayton help on running downs, but I would like to see more mixup to the lineups. I really liked the lineup of Anderson, Johnson, Nevis and Freeney. To spell these guys we could bring in Mathis, Moala, Mathews and Brayton. Point being I think we'd get more consistent production by not playing Mathis and Freeney together on every down. No, Anderson nor Brayton are going to rack up a number of sacks, but by mixing things up in the lineups we don't put ourselves in a predictable defense. Teams see Freeney and Mathis, they're going to check to run anytime they can. Conversely when both Freeney and Mathis go to the sideline the other team is going to check to pass because they know the pass rush won't be nearly as heavy.

I agree and got into some debates with people even before the season started because I said this exact same thing. I liked the idea of bringing in the bigger ends, but our coaches simply do not know how to use them in the right situations. I kept telling people that bringing these guys in was not going to work nearly as well as many thought because everytime the offense see's Anderson and Brayton in the game they are going to throw the ball and they will check to a run everytime Freeney and Mathis are in(well, not everytime but you get my point). If our coaching staff would just learn how to mix them up to add an element of surprise the d-line would have more success IMO.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Balzer40

[Smitto]

As well as the decrease in playing time of Freeney and Mathis due to the addition of Anderson and Brayton for running downs. I said in a thread much earlier that I wouldn't be surprised if neither Freeney or Mathis reach double digit sacks this year because of Anderson and Brayton. Not saying it's a bad thing because Anderson and Brayton help on running downs, but I would like to see more mixup to the lineups. I really liked the lineup of Anderson, Johnson, Nevis and Freeney. To spell these guys we could bring in Mathis, Moala, Mathews and Brayton. Point being I think we'd get more consistent production by not playing Mathis and Freeney together on every down. No, Anderson nor Brayton are going to rack up a number of sacks, but by mixing things up in the lineups we don't put ourselves in a predictable defense. Teams see Freeney and Mathis, they're going to check to run anytime they can. Conversely when both Freeney and Mathis go to the sideline the other team is going to check to pass because they know the pass rush won't be nearly as heavy.

I agree on that but its been like this in the league for a while unless you have some really unique players you will always give something and give up another.... i would rather have anderson and brayton in there with some good corners, than than vice versa........ but then again the colts dont have good corners soo idk.

[GoGoColts]

How good have they been since their miracle Super Bowl? Better than the Colts? Didn't think so. I don't care about the Giants.

You said our biggest defensive problem is the lack of sacks. The Giants don't run the same schemes we do, and they don't play the same teams we play. They also don't play against teams expecting Freeney and Mathis, and thus sticking extra TE's on the line and running in the gaps.

"Tell that to the Giants" doesn't answer those points. It doesn't counter or take away from the fact that teams are planning to do everything in their power to eliminate Freeney and Mathis. That tactic originated in the Super Bowl against the Saints.

1. 3-step drop. This prevents Freeney and Mathis from circling around the line in time to get to the QB.

2. Extra TE's in max protect. This significantly delays the pass rush of our speed ends, while also providing a QB with check down outlets should the initial routes be covered.

3. Backside blocking and delayed hand offs. This allows teams to pick up significant yardage on what would normally be passing downs because they are basically running where Freeney and Mathis used to be.

Those are the steps to beating our defensive ends right now. We're getting better with the rotation of Brayton and Anderson, as well as improved DT play (though Nevis and Moala are injured). We are also getting a lot of pressure on the QB's, but not quite forcing the sack.

The Giants don't play the same way, so other teams play them differently.

The Giants are 22nd in total defense right now. The Colts are 27th. Would the sacks be making up that difference?

The Giants are giving up 251 yards per game against the pass.

The Colts are giving up 254 yards per game against the pass.

Not a lot separates them, and we don't have an offense to help our defense out.

The Giants lead the league in sacks, yet they are 19th in pass defense. The Colts are 20th in pass defense. That means 18 teams performing better than the Giants against the pass have fewer sacks than them. 6 teams ahead of them have fewer than 9 sacks. Are those teams suffering without the sacks? Their defense is better than the Giants without them. Oh yeah, and we've forced more fumbles than have the Giants, and are giving up fewer yards to receivers than they are.

Your argument is just dead wrong.

I already addressed your arguments in my first post. Our defense only has 2 guys who can make sacks. There are 8 other guys on the d-line who are supposed to be on the team for their speed and ability to penetrate. Yet, non of them full-fill their purpose which is to make sacks. Your entire post is saying, "We only have two guys who can make sacks and this is how teams stop them." Making a detailed recount of what I said, and telling me that I am wrong does not make a convincing argument.

Explain to me how the defense is better off with less sacks?

[hurricane1122]

i think the lack of turnovers the colts defense forces is a bigger problem than getting sacks.

[chad72]

It doesn't help that teams have long since figured out the tampa 2 coverage. Yes this coverage can work in some, SOME situations but on 1st and 2nd downs it should not be used at all, imo. Teams have figured out that all they need is one quick outlet over the middle and if Angerer takes one step backwards, you take that dump off because it will only be open (not Pat's fault).

It also doesn't help that we only have one true NT on the roster. Nevis is great at disrupting the line and getting penetration. However, on passing downs the Colts have shown tendency to bring in Foster and Nevis on passing downs. This turns Nevis into the NT so he gets double blocked, and any OG worth his salt should be able to contain or downright stop the hideously undersized Foster (I like Foster, but he needs to be moved to DE and never play DT again though considering how small he is, the fact he was able to be effective at some times is a credit to him). We need an additional NT, preferably one that is equally good against run and pass. We're not going to get one in free agency most likely so unless Rico Mathews or Ogbu (who was a NT in college) can improve then I really think NT needs to be one of the first issues addressed in the draft, yes even before CB because this is going to be a very rich draft for CBs but not so much for quality NT's.

Basically, someone needs to smack Caldwell and Coyer in the head and tell them that putting 4 smaller pass rushers in on passing downs does not necessarily equate to a better pass rush. Nevis is much more effective when he plays alongside AJ because AJ takes on multiple blockers, usually leaving Nevis 1 on 1. If Nevis is also double blocked then that leaves Freeney 1 on 1 or he gets chipped from a TE/RB which means one less receiver for the secondary to worry about. Putting all smaller guys in makes it easier for the opposing OL to win their 1 on 1 battles against the interior of our DL which allows them to focus more on doubling Freeney/Mathis without having to go all out mass protect.

Just my 0.02 cents

True dat. When Ron Meeks was coaching D, a similar scheme was used but we had better players in the secondary (Marlin Jackson, Hayden) who made it look better though elite QBs still passed on us but less often than recently. Now, the player talent is not there and the scheme has not adapted. The sacks would not be as important if we were talented on the secondary front and making 3rd down stops/generating turnovers, we are not. Hence the scheme has to improvize considerably.

If we can get Coyer's D-line with Ron Meeks' secondary talent at least as a baseline with good zone coverage, we will have better defensive results.

[Freenyfan102]

You can't just rely on sacks to win games on defense....Defending the run,and the pass are also crucial....

Yeah Dont we have DT that sopposed to stop the run and they can collapse the pocket on the pass but they dont. It the Speed of the De that get the QB killed and rarely does the DT get a sack or stop the run

[GoGoColts]

Yeah Dont we have DT that sopposed to stop the run and they can collapse the pocket on the pass but they dont. It the Speed of the De that get the QB killed and rarely does the DT get a sack or stop the run

Actually, the DTs, aren't getting to the QB as they are designed.

[BlueStallion]

I think all the weaknesses mentioned above have led to the team's defensive failures. Tampa-2 / Cover-2 requires the following elements to succeed:

• Run-stuffing 4-3 NT who must be blocked with double-teams. Antonio Johnson is currently the only legit NT on the Colts roster, and he's usually exhausted by the 4th quarter from playing so many downs. Notice how much better the other DTs play when Mookie lines up next to them. Whenever he gets injured or needs to sit out a play, the D-line is vulnerable to getting run over. The team has plenty of good UTs. What they need is another true NT to rotate with Mookie and keep him fresh. I hope they draft a good one next April.
  
• Skilled DEs that can pressure the QB AND help contain the run. The Colts have arguably the best tandem in the league at getting after the QB, but Freeney & Mathis are nearly one-dimensional because they rarely stop the run. If the Colts could find a DE who is equally strong at both harassing the QB and stuffing the run, the D-line wouldn't be so predictable. Does such a unicorn exist?
  
• Strong + fast linebackers tough enough to shed a blocker and take down a RB, while still fast enough to stay with a TE/RB/slot-receiver in pass coverage. I don't see anyone on the team's current LB platoon who excels at both. The Colts have sacrificed too much size & strength in pursuit of speedy LBs. I hope they draft either Manti Teo or Zach Brown. Both of these prospects offer an excellent combination of size and speed.
  
• Good CBs (not necessarily elite) who are solid in both zone and press coverage. The only CB currently on the roster who fits this description is Jerraud Powers. The rest of the CB cadre are either scrubs (Jacob Lacey) or still unproven. The team needs to acquire at least one more decent quality CB. Two would be even better for depth.
  
• A sure-tackling, hard-hitting SS who can shut down running plays in the box, terrorize WRs, and blitz the QB once in a while. Since Bob Sanders left, there has been no 'enforcer' in the Colts backfield. Bethea is a very good FS, but he's not intimidating. None of the team's DBs scare anyone crossing over the middle or running deep routes. If the Colts don't draft a top-rated SS, I want them to target a free agent Terminator like
  . He'll be expensive but worth it. He's a bigger, stronger, meaner version of Troy Polamalu, but without the Sampson hair.
  

If the Colts can address just 3 of these 5 glaring issues via the draft and free agency, its defense would vastly improve.

[WSO]

I think all the weaknesses mentioned above have led to the team's defensive failures. Tampa-2 / Cover-2 requires the following elements to succeed:

• Run-stuffing 4-3 NT who must be blocked with double-teams. Antonio Johnson is currently the only legit NT on the Colts roster, and he's usually exhausted by the 4th quarter from playing so many downs. Notice how much better the other DTs play when Mookie lines up next to them. Whenever he gets injured or needs to sit out a play, the D-line is vulnerable to getting run over. The team has plenty of good UTs. What they need is another true NT to rotate with Mookie and keep him fresh. I hope they draft a good one next April.
  
• Skilled DEs that can pressure the QB AND help contain the run. The Colts have arguably the best tandem in the league at getting after the QB, but Freeney & Mathis are nearly one-dimensional because they rarely stop the run. If the Colts could find a DE who is equally strong at both harassing the QB and stuffing the run, the D-line wouldn't be so predictable. Does such a unicorn exist?
  
• Strong + fast linebackers tough enough to shed a blocker and take down a RB, while still fast enough to stay with a TE/RB/slot-receiver in pass coverage. I don't see anyone on the team's current LB platoon who excels at both. The Colts have sacrificed too much size & strength in pursuit of speedy LBs. I hope they draft either Manti Teo or Zach Brown. Both of these prospects offer an excellent combination of size and speed.
  
• Good CBs (not necessarily elite) who are solid in both zone and press coverage. The only CB currently on the roster who fits this description is Jerraud Powers. The rest of the CB cadre are either scrubs (Jacob Lacey) or still unproven. The team needs to acquire at least one more decent quality CB. Two would be even better for depth.
  
• A sure-tackling, hard-hitting SS who can shut down running plays in the box, terrorize WRs, and blitz the QB once in a while. Since Bob Sanders left, there has been no 'enforcer' in the Colts backfield. Bethea is a very good FS, but he's not intimidating. None of the team's DBs scare anyone crossing over the middle or running deep routes. If the Colts don't draft a top-rated SS, I want them to target a free agent Terminator like
  . He'll be expensive but worth it. He's a bigger, stronger, meaner version of Troy Polamalu, but without the Sampson hair.
  

If the Colts can address just 3 of these 5 glaring issues via the draft and free agency, its defense would vastly improve.

great post, reading it reminded me a lot of our 06 SB Roster. We had Booger who played really well, Raegor , obviously Freeney+Mathis. We have some solid corners in Nick Harper, Kelvin Hayden, and I hate to say it but Jason David. LB core was pretty good too with Brackett and June.

[Jason_]

Your +1 post here

http://forums.colts....012-mock-draft/ (scroll past the original post, I updated further down the page...and yes it is a little bit of wishful thinking but hey...it does address all of the needs except for DE)

seems as though our wish lists are very similar..lol

Edited October 14, 2011 by Jason