are the patriots in trouble

[amfootball]

Jermaine Cunningham has shown flashes of brilliance but never consistently has been able to do that.  Hes still a solid contributor as a pass rushing specialist, but he just hasn't made that next leap yet.  He could turn it around, but im not holding my breath.

 

The Patriots have plenty of leaders on the team though:

 

Brady

Wilfork

Adrian Wilson

Jerod Mayo

Devin McCourty

Logan Mankins

Matt Slater

Tim Tebow

Leon Washington

 

Hopefully guys like Amendola, Vereen, Ridley, Solder, Hightower, Logan Ryan and Tavon Wilson can start transitioning more into those roles.  Gronkowski is a leader whether he likes it or not, hes just young right now so hes not exactly a beacon of wisdom and enlightenment outside of football, but his teammates love him and football is very important to him.  I'm sure he will develop into another leader for them and a face of the franchise.

I am not sure anyone can say who a leader is save for the guys that are actually named team leaders by the team. Zoltan Mesko was one of the captains of his college team so he could be a leader too. I would think Tebow will galvanize guys as well. Just so hard to tell and predict. Pats are a very young team so the more leaders the better.

[dw49]

Hi Dw. You have an awful lot of hypotheticals in there. If all those things actually happen then I would agree that the Pats would be in trouble but seldom are champ teams determined solely on the number of perceived great players but on how the team performs as a collective and I think the Pats have proven over more than a decade now that they are pretty good at fielding a team that averages 12-13 wins a season and many of those teams sustained key injuries to key players along the way. It is par for the course for EVERY team.

 

In terms of the other contending AFC teams, the Broncos off-season has been tumultuous as well. They lost one of their best defensive players in Dumerville and have a bunch of injury concerns on the offensive line. In addition, two of their execs have been arrested for DUI. So, I don’t see the Broncos as better than the Pats. In fact, I would argue that the Pats improved their team more defensively and the Broncos actually took a step back but we will see how it plays out. I do agree about Jan and the bad weather but I think the bigger factor is Fox vs. Belichick. I just don’t see Fox being able to outcoach him in a big game.

 

In terms of the Colts, they are perhaps the most interesting team in the AFC. Luck is a stud but he basically has a new HC this year as Pagano did not coach last year save for two games and a new OC. That is a lot of change in year two. I don’t think the Colts are better than the Texans right now much less the Pats but I do think they have more intangibles so I do like them to get back to the playoffs even though many are predicting a step back from their 11 wins last year.

 

 

I don't think saying Gronk is injury prone is a "hypothetical"... it's fact.  Heck , he's already questionable for the first part of the season. Dobson being a rookie is not a hypothetical and D.A. does not appear to be a durable guy at this point in time.

 

Luck is quite familar with with the new OC and I think saying Pagano just coached two games is a big understatement. First of all , it was more than that and he was there when camp started in July.

[amfootball]

I don't think saying Gronk is injury prone is a "hypothetical"... it's fact.  Heck , he's already questionable for the first part of the season. Dobson being a rookie is not a hypothetical and D.A. does not appear to be a durable guy at this point in time.

 

Luck is quite familar with with the new OC and I think saying Pagano just coached two games is a big understatement. First of all , it was more than that and he was there when camp started in July.

Injuries are all hypothetical as well as how a rookie will do. None of those are certainities other than Gronk probably missing a few games to start the season.

 

In terms of the Colts, Pagano did not coach last year except for two games. He was not even at the facilities during the week because he was in the hospital. Arians was the HC and won COY and also helped propell Luck into the ROY discussion. Very hard to duplicate all of that I would think especially in year 2 when all Qbs hit the sophmore slump. We'll see. I like Luck a lot and think he will do fine but 11 wins may be unrealistic as so many last year were come from behinds and the schedue is tougher with the NFC West opponents.

[Superman]

Injuries are all hypothetical as well as how a rookie will do. None of those are certainities other than Gronk probably missing a few games to start the season.

 

In terms of the Colts, Pagano did not coach last year except for two games. He was not even at the facilities during the week because he was in the hospital. Arians was the HC and won COY and also helped propell Luck into the ROY discussion. Very hard to duplicate all of that I would think especially in year 2 when all Qbs hit the sophmore slump. We'll see. I like Luck a lot and think he will do fine but 11 wins may be unrealistic as so many last year were come from behinds and the schedue is tougher with the NFC West opponents.

Pagano coached the first three games of the season, and the last game of the regular season, plus the playoff game against the Ravens. It's not really relevant, as your point still stands, but as dw49 said earlier, it was more than two games.

[schwamm]

Injuries are all hypothetical as well as how a rookie will do. None of those are certainities other than Gronk probably missing a few games to start the season.

 

In terms of the Colts, Pagano did not coach last year except for two games. He was not even at the facilities during the week because he was in the hospital. Arians was the HC and won COY and also helped propell Luck into the ROY discussion. Very hard to duplicate all of that I would think especially in year 2 when all Qbs hit the sophmore slump. We'll see. I like Luck a lot and think he will do fine but 11 wins may be unrealistic as so many last year were come from behinds and the schedue is tougher with the NFC West opponents.

You point has merit, but it cuts both ways. 

 

You say it's a bunch of hypotheticals to argue that the guys now on the team might not play up to the level of the guys who are, for one reason or another, no longer on the team.  YEP.  It is.  It is making an assessment based on similar suppositions people made about the Colts last year.  Broad sweeping changes do not by definition mean that a team will struggle.

 

However, I think you are also positing a pile of hypotheticals yourself.  Hypothetically, Gronk will stay healthy enough to contribute.  Hypothetically, young Pats will step up and fill shoes.  Hypothetically, Amendola will come somewhere close to being an adequate fill-in for Welker.  Hypothetically, your argument has merit, but hypothetically, no more or less than someone who reads the tea leaves and sees another outcome. 

 

Neither side can be proven as more or less than hypothetical until the season plays out... but we are on a forum to discuss NFL football, and most prevalently football that has yet to be played.  That means it is ALL hypothetical.

[dw49]

Injuries are all hypothetical as well as how a rookie will do. None of those are certainities other than Gronk probably missing a few games to start the season.

 

In terms of the Colts, Pagano did not coach last year except for two games. He was not even at the facilities during the week because he was in the hospital. Arians was the HC and won COY and also helped propell Luck into the ROY discussion. Very hard to duplicate all of that I would think especially in year 2 when all Qbs hit the sophmore slump. We'll see. I like Luck a lot and think he will do fine but 11 wins may be unrealistic as so many last year were come from behinds and the schedue is tougher with the NFC West opponents

 

 

 

 

 

Players that are proven to be injury prone are just that injury prone. Bob Sanders was injury prone. Gronk was injury prone in college and heas carried that into the NFL. There is no "blanket " statement like you suggest that "injuries are hypothetical." Rookie WR's usually have a bit of trouble settling in . Not a hypothetical at all. It's fact. Does it necessarily hold true in all cases ? Of coarse not but it is the trend .

 

Now as far as Pagano coaching 2 games , you really need to stop just pulling things out of your coulee. He left after game 3 and returned to the team in week 17 . Plus the Colts had a playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens. So please don't correct me when you obviously have no clue on this. Plus it's just silly to say the team will have trouble adjusting to Pagano as head coach.

[dw49]

Pagano coached the first three games of the season, and the last game of the regular season, plus the playoff game against the Ravens. It's not really relevant, as your point still stands, but as dw49 said earlier, it was more than two games.

 

 

Sorry , I should have clicked yes when asked "if I wanted to see the one more reply" while I was answering the amfootball post. I would not have included the correction you already had posted.

[amfootball]

Players that are proven to be injury prone are just that injury prone. Bob Sanders was injury prone. Gronk was injury prone in college and heas carried that into the NFL. There is no "blanket " statement like you suggest that "injuries are hypothetical." Rookie WR's usually have a bit of trouble settling in . Not a hypothetical at all. It's fact. Does it necessarily hold true in all cases ? Of coarse not but it is the trend .

 

Now as far as Pagano coaching 2 games , you really need to stop just pulling things out of your coulee. He left after game 3 and returned to the team in week 17 . Plus the Colts had a playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens. So please don't correct me when you obviously have no clue on this. Plus it's just silly to say the team will have trouble adjusting to Pagano as head coach.

Sure, I don't disagree. But they are not injured yet so it is a hypothetical. Some guys are injury prone and then they improve their work out routines and diet and stay healthy. The broken forearm was a freak injury so I don't really consider that one as part of him being injury prone. But the back is certainly a concern but he had that fixed last month so we'll have to see how it all goes.

 

It was five games. I stand correctly. I thought he had left after game 1. How about his record though? 2-3 including one and done in the playoffs. So, yeah, I think it is fair to see how he will do as HC. Arians was COY. Don't think Pagano will do anything close to that but I am rooting for him given all he has been through.

[amfootball]

You point has merit, but it cuts both ways. 

 

You say it's a bunch of hypotheticals to argue that the guys now on the team might not play up to the level of the guys who are, for one reason or another, no longer on the team.  YEP.  It is.  It is making an assessment based on similar suppositions people made about the Colts last year.  Broad sweeping changes do not by definition mean that a team will struggle.

 

However, I think you are also positing a pile of hypotheticals yourself.  Hypothetically, Gronk will stay healthy enough to contribute.  Hypothetically, young Pats will step up and fill shoes.  Hypothetically, Amendola will come somewhere close to being an adequate fill-in for Welker.  Hypothetically, your argument has merit, but hypothetically, no more or less than someone who reads the tea leaves and sees another outcome. 

 

Neither side can be proven as more or less than hypothetical until the season plays out... but we are on a forum to discuss NFL football, and most prevalently football that has yet to be played.  That means it is ALL hypothetical.

Yes. But the question was whether or not the Pats are in trouble. Only if all the hypos go the way DW outlined. Otherwise, they are in right there in the mix as one of the favs in the AFC ..

[dw49]

Sure, I don't disagree. But they are not injured yet so it is a hypothetical. Some guys are injury prone and then they improve their work out routines and diet and stay healthy. The broken forearm was a freak injury so I don't really consider that one as part of him being injury prone. But the back is certainly a concern but he had that fixed last month so we'll have to see how it all goes.

 

It was five games. I stand correctly. I thought he had left after game 1. How about his record though? 2-3 including one and done in the playoffs. So, yeah, I think it is fair to see how he will do as HC. Arians was COY. Don't think Pagano will do anything close to that but I am rooting for him given all he has been through.

 

 

Gronk actually is injured right now and the question is when he will be well enough to play. Also he has a history of back issues and it could be a bit of a reach saying it's been "fixed." But.. we shall see.

[amfootball]

Gronk actually is injured right now and the question is when he will be well enough to play. Also he has a history of back issues and it could be a bit of a reach saying it's been "fixed." But.. we shall see.

Medical reports are 8-12 weeks for the type of surgery he had. 8 weeks would put him back at end of Aug and 12 weeks would be end of Sept. Pats first two games are Bills and Jets so they probably won't rush him ...

[schwamm]

Yes. But the question was whether or not the Pats are in trouble. Only if all the hypos go the way DW outlined. Otherwise, they are in right there in the mix as one of the favs in the AFC ..

...or the hypos all have to go the way you outline, or the team struggles.  Just sayin'

 

I figure it'll probably end up somewhere in the middle, and the Pats will get into the playoffs, but won't make much of a splash.

[amfootball]

...or the hypos all have to go the way you outline, or the team struggles.  Just sayin'

 

I figure it'll probably end up somewhere in the middle, and the Pats will get into the playoffs, but won't make much of a splash.

Yes hard to tell in July. We'll know more by October. Pats are good at adjusting but on paper they are not favs for the SB unless Bill drastically improves their pass defense. I am hopefull because of what I saw last season when Talib played. If the young guys pan out then they will be in the thick of it ...

[-JJ-]

Well BB pushed the fad for the two tight end lineup.

Time for the no tight end line up:)

[TAPLOOK]

Brady's going to throw for around 5000 yards and 30 TD's regardless of who's on the field. The Patriots are going to win a bunch of games and more than likely make a SB run. Same team as usual.

[chad72]

Well BB pushed the fad for the two tight end lineup.

Time for the no tight end line up:)

 

Tebow at FB and TE, what other option does Tebow have but to not listen to BB???

[-JJ-]

Tebow at FB and TE, what other option does Tebow have but to not listen to BB???

That's what I was thinking. You can't have 6 linemen can you?