ESPN , top 20 coaches all time , # 20 Tony Dungy

[Yehoodi]

In no particular order:

Bill Walsh

Don Shula

Dan Reeves

Bill Parcells

Tom Coughlin

John Madden

Joe Gibbs

Vince Lombardi

Marv Levy

Hank Stram

George Allen

Jimmy Johnson

Sid Gillman

Curly Lambeau

Bud Grant

Chuck Noll

Tom Landry

George Halas

Bill Belichick

Paul Brown

I could go on....Dungy would not be in my top 50....

I think he made the list because he was the first black HC to win a SB and for his humanitarian efforts. But really he does not belong.

When I think of Coach Dungy, I think of John Madden being a close parallel . . . you can see my points in the last post . . .

its tough, I see Dungy being on the bumble . . . and see arguments to put him off or on . . .

I like your list, btw . . .

[jvan1973]

Sure if you would like. If he has FOUR SB appearances with two different teams in two different conferences than we can debate....he doesn't.

how many rings?

[amfootball]

how many rings?

It isn't just about rings. The greatest NFL coaches of all time are judged on the teams they coached, the QBs they coached, the era they played in, wins in regular season, post-season, Championship/SB wins and appearances, expectations for their respective teams, how they turned around a franchise, etc...

 

IMO Dungy does not stack up. Not in the top 20 anyways. Like I said, if you don't like Reeves even though his resume is better than Dungy's, you can put Cowher in ahead of Dungy.

[jvan1973]

It isn't just about rings. The greatest NFL coaches of all time are judged on the teams they coached, the QBs they coached, the era they played in, wins in regular season, post-season, Championship/SB wins and appearances, expectations for their respective teams, how they turned around a franchise, etc...

IMO Dungy does not stack up. Not in the top 20 anyways. Like I said, if you don't like Reeves even though his resume is better than Dungy's, you can put Cowher in ahead of Dungy.

take a look at the job he did with the buccs. that team was a perineal door matt. he took them to the playoffs four times. no other coach has even come close to doing that

[amfootball]

When I think of Coach Dungy, I think of John Madden being a close parallel . . . you can see my points in the last post . . .

its tough, I see Dungy being on the bumble . . . and see arguments to put him off or on . . .

I like your list, btw . . .

I am not sure about that. Madden put the AFC on the map. He is as synonomous with the NFL as Babe Ruth is with baseball. Heck, he has his own video game....I am not sure anyone is really comparable to him.

[jvan1973]

I am not sure about that. Madden put the AFC on the map. He is as synonomous with the NFL as Babe Ruth is with baseball. Heck, he has his own video game....I am not sure anyone is really comparable to him.

Madden compared to babe Ruth? really? are you living in a state where recreational weed is legal

[amfootball]

take a look at the job he did with the buccs. that team was a perineal door matt. he took them to the playoffs four times. no other coach has even come close to doing that

Then Gruden stepped in and won the SB with them with Brad Johnson as his QB. Many people believe Dungy should have won championships with those teams not just playoff games. I also think the biggest reason why Manning does not have more rings is Dungy. He was often outcoached in big games by superior coaches in the AFC...

[amfootball]

Madden compared to babe Ruth? really? are you living in a state where recreational weed is legal

More people associate football with John Madden than any other football person. That was my comparison to Ruth.

[jvan1973]

More people associate football with John Madden than any other football person. That was my comparison to Ruth.

thanks to his broadcasting and video game..

not his coaching

[jvan1973]

Then Gruden stepped in and won the SB with them with Brad Johnson as his QB. Many people believe Dungy should have won championships with those teams not just playoff games. I also think the biggest reason why Manning does not have more rings is Dungy. He was often outcoached in big games by superior coaches in the AFC...

had todays rules been in place in the rams buccs nfc championship game, they would have went to the superbowl in 98 or 99 i can't remember which year

[GoColts8818]

Then Gruden stepped in and won the SB with them with Brad Johnson as his QB. Many people believe Dungy should have won championships with those teams not just playoff games. I also think the biggest reason why Manning does not have more rings is Dungy. He was often outcoached in big games by superior coaches in the AFC...

Manning's playoff record with any coach but Dungy 2-5 four one and dones.

With Dungy 7-6 and a Super Bowl win.

Maybe we look at this the wrong way maybe Dungy didn't hold Manning back maybe Dungy did more with Manning in the playoffs than any other coach has of Manning.

[chad72]

Manning's playoff record with any coach but Dungy 2-5 four one and dones.

With Dungy 7-6 and a Super Bowl win.

Maybe we look at this the wrong way maybe Dungy didn't hold Manning back maybe Dungy did more with Manning in the playoffs than any other coach has of Manning.

 

Peyton's playoff years with other coaches - 4 (if I am right, 2 with Mora, 1 with John Fox, 2 with Jim Caldwell), record is 2-5

 

Peyton's playoff years with Dungy - 9, record is 7-6

 

You sir, may have a point.

 

Dungy may not have made THE difference, but he did not hold Peyton back at all, IMO. The team was just not good enough when matched up vs the best teams in the playoffs. Our trenches got owned consistently vs elite teams in the playoffs, a hallmark of even Bills' teams Polian put together, just saying. Peyton's regular season record historically vs playoff teams in the regular season is barely above .500, so it just means the Colts teams were good but not good enough to win it all consistently when matched up vs elite teams. The team was built outside in instead of inside out. No wonder everyone called us a finesse dome team.

[GoColts8818]

Peyton's playoff years with other coaches - 4 (if I am right, 2 with Mora, 1 with John Fox, 2 with Jim Caldwell), record is 2-5

Peyton's playoff years with Dungy - 9, record is 7-6

You may have a point.

Dungy may not have made a difference, but he did not hold Peyton back at all, IMO. The team was just not good enough when matched up vs the best teams in the playoffs. Our trenches got owned consistently vs elite teams in the playoffs, a hallmark of even Bills' teams Polian put together, just saying. Peyton's regular season record historically vs playoff teams in the regular season is barely above .500, so it just means the Colts teams were good but not good enough to win it all consistently when matched up vs elite teams. The team was built outside in instead of inside out.

5 years with other coaches in the playoffs 7 years with Dungy. Not exactly even but a close enough sample you can see a patern.

[oldunclemark]

I think some Colts fans nit pick about all the things they didnt like about the Dungy years..

Bears fans think Mike Ditka should have won multiple Super Bowls...too.

Buffalo fans thought Marv Levy was a loser because he lost 4 Super Bowls....in 4 years

 

 

I think coaching is abut how much your players are willing to play for you..

 

..and the atmosphere you create..

 

You cant separate the type of man Dungy is from his coaching ability. THAT IS COACHING.

 

Being a leader and an example...

 

Dungy led a perennial contender and a one-time Super Bowl champ..

 

With that said: Top -20     I dont think so.

 

Top 50 all-time certainly. He has the wins, and the almost universal support and endoresment of his men.

 

Other than the expectations of others, what else is there?

[bayone]

# 19. Mike Shanahan:  

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/greatestcoach19/greatest-coaches-nfl-history-mike-shanahan

 

at right side is this schedule , is below

 

afterwards is article by 1 ESPN voter and who he voted for

 

 

TOP 20 COACHES OF ALL TIME

•           20 - Tony Dungy: Quiet inspiration
•  .        19 -- Mike Shanahan: Make it a double
• No. 18 -- Saturday, May 25
• No. 17 -- Sunday, May 26
• No. 16 -- Monday, May 27
• No. 15 -- Tuesday, May 28
• No. 14 -- Wednesday, May 29
• No. 13 -- Thursday, May 30
• No. 12 -- Friday, May 31
• No. 11 -- Saturday, June 1
• No. 10 -- Sunday, June 2
• No. 9 -- Monday, June 3
• No. 8 -- Tuesday, June 4
• No. 7 -- Wednesday, June 5
• No. 6 -- Thursday, June 6
• No. 5 -- Friday, June 7
• No. 4 -- Saturday, June 8
• No. 3 -- Sunday, June 9
• No. 2 -- Monday, June 10
• No. 1 -- Tuesday, June 11

TELEVISION SCHEDULE

• Nos. 20-16: June 4, 7 p.m. ET, ESPN
• Nos. 15-11: June 5, 7 p.m. ET, ESPN
• Nos. 10-6: June 5, 7:30 p.m. ET, ESPN
• Nos. 5-1: June 6, 8:30 p.m. ET, ESPN
• Lombardi's Legacy: June 6, 9 p.m., ESPN
•  

  ESPN's  Rick Riley's top 20  

 

for each coach he notes why they are his choice , I left out his notes due to copy-rite but can

 

read article , link at bottom , a few i did put in, check out what he says about Belichick & Brady especially 

 

at end he names a few & why they werent on the list

 

I've been instructed by the ESPN gendarmes not to reveal who made our Greatest Coaches in NFL History poll. But I know who I voted for, and I know who the group voted for, and one of us must've voted on nitrous oxide, because we're a Carnival cruise ship apart on some picks.

 

Lastly, I didn't vote for Tony Dungy. People act as if he won two Super Bowls: the one with Indy and the one Tampa Bay won the year after he was fired. Kim Kardashian just got pregnant with Kanye West. Does Kris Humphries get credit for that? And yes, he won a Super Bowl with PEYTON MANNING , but your muffler guy could win one with Manning in those years.

 

Wonderful man, though.

 

20. Dan Reeves --

19. Ray Flaherty -- 

18. Tom Coughlin -- REASON  he won 2 Super bowls with the Wrong Manning

17. Marv Levy --  

16. Hank Stram --  

15. George Allen --  

14. Jimmy Johnson - 

13. Sid Gillman -- 

12. Curly Lambeau --  

11. Bud Grant -- 

10. John Madden -- .

9. Chuck Noll -- 

8. Bill Walsh --  

7. Don Shula -- 

6. Tom Landry --  

 

4. Bill Belichick -- A mad scientist. Stores his blood in the freezer at night. Would've made a terrific despot way back when. The man already has been to five Super Bowls and he's only 61. The way he's going, he could make it to seven, a record. You say, "What about your one-quarterback rule NOW?" And I say, "How do you know Tom Brady would be Tom Brady anywhere else? He wasn't Tom Brady in college, was he?"

 

3. Paul Brown --  

2. Joe Gibbs -- 

1. Vince Lombardi -- OK, the chalk pick, but do you think Bart Starr would be in the Hall of Fame without him? How about Jim Ringo or Herb Adderly? The talent didn't make Lombardi. Lombardi made the talent. This former Latin teacher got a job nobody wanted -- coaching the 1-10-1 Packers -- and proceeded to win 74 percent of his games after that. Seventy-four percent!

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/greatestcoachreilly/my-top-20-nfl-coaches

[Jason_]

Manning's playoff record with any coach but Dungy 2-5 four one and dones.

With Dungy 7-6 and a Super Bowl win.

Maybe we look at this the wrong way maybe Dungy didn't hold Manning back maybe Dungy did more with Manning in the playoffs than any other coach has of Manning.

 

You're theory of Manning's success with and without Dungy is assuming that Peyton played at MVP level Peyton during every year of his career.  Mora only had Peyton for Peyton's first 2 years so there's no way Mora got the same play out of Manning than Dungy did.  

 

You're also giving Dungy an awful lot of credit for the Tampa 2 defense.  First, he co-created the tampa 2 with Monte Kiffin, so he's not the sole creator of it.  Also, it's not so much an entire defense as it is a specific coverage type.  They shifted the Defensive line a little bit and turned the MLB into a deep-cover safety.  That's about it.  He and Kiffin created a play together.  

 

I am firmly in the camp that believes that Dungy hindered the Colts success more than he helped it.  I never liked his defense.  His defense also held the Vikings back in several playoff appearances while he was the defensive coordinator there.  Just like the Colts defense, the Vikings defense under Dungy was pretty good against vertical passing teams because they could pressure the QB, but anytime they went against a team with even a decent power running game, they were ran over and eliminated from the playoffs.  Dungy had defensive coaching success in Tampa because he had a ton of top-level talent to work with.  IMO he's overrated, just like Norv Turner is overrated as an offensive "mastermind" because the only time he had sustained success was in Dallas with Aikman, Emmitt, Harper, Novicek, Irvin and an elite OL.

[Yehoodi]

I am not sure about that. Madden put the AFC on the map. He is as synonomous with the NFL as Babe Ruth is with baseball. Heck, he has his own video game....I am not sure anyone is really comparable to him.

 

well I think a few other coaches on your list helped in this endeavor - Shula, Noll and Stram just to name a few  . . .

 

my point regarding Dungy/Madden was that both have one SB, even though both had stellar regular season records, had a few deep runs in the playoffs but only one SB, both help to elevate a team and helped a great QB, Stabler and Manning . . .

[GoPats]

dungy has the ninth highest winning percentage in the history of the NFL

 

 

how many rings did Reeves win with Elway?

 

But I thought wins/losses and playoff wins and rings aren't a good way to judge players? Just coaches? ;)

[GoPats]

how many rings?

 

 

It isn't just about rings. 

 

Welcome to Bizzarro Day here on the Colts board! LOL...

 

;)

[GoPats]

Dungy is, no doubt, a very, very good man. Better man than I will ever be. I just don't know if he's #20 on my all-time list. Seems like a little bit of a stretch to me, but that's why these things exist. So people read and talk about it...

[jvan1973]

But I thought wins/losses and playoff wins and rings aren't a good way to judge players? Just coaches? ;)

it isn't the only way, but when dungy had a better winning percentage than reeves and has a ring, how could he be lower on the lisr. also bud grant would rank dungy higher than himself.

[GoColts8818]

You're theory of Manning's success with and without Dungy is assuming that Peyton played at MVP level Peyton during every year of his career.  Mora only had Peyton for Peyton's first 2 years so there's no way Mora got the same play out of Manning than Dungy did.  

 

You're also giving Dungy an awful lot of credit for the Tampa 2 defense.  First, he co-created the tampa 2 with Monte Kiffin, so he's not the sole creator of it.  Also, it's not so much an entire defense as it is a specific coverage type.  They shifted the Defensive line a little bit and turned the MLB into a deep-cover safety.  That's about it.  He and Kiffin created a play together.  

 

I am firmly in the camp that believes that Dungy hindered the Colts success more than he helped it.  I never liked his defense.  His defense also held the Vikings back in several playoff appearances while he was the defensive coordinator there.  Just like the Colts defense, the Vikings defense under Dungy was pretty good against vertical passing teams because they could pressure the QB, but anytime they went against a team with even a decent power running game, they were ran over and eliminated from the playoffs.  Dungy had defensive coaching success in Tampa because he had a ton of top-level talent to work with.  IMO he's overrated, just like Norv Turner is overrated as an offensive "mastermind" because the only time he had sustained success was in Dallas with Aikman, Emmitt, Harper, Novicek, Irvin and an elite OL.

Peyton was at MVP level those years.  He won it under Caldwell when they lost.  He was the runner up last year when they lost and the year he lost to the Titans he finished third and finished fifth in MVP voting in 2000 when they lost to Miami.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/01/05/warner_mvp_ap/

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/12/27/faulk001227.html

 

Again the numbers are just not there to back up the theory that Dungy hurt the Colts more than he helped them.  When he was here they won more than any other time in Colts franchise history.  When 10 wins is the "bad" season out of seven you are doing something right.  If Pagano can do half of what Dungy did when Dungy was here he will be remembered as a very good coach.   

[JoKeR]

I would not have Dungy on this list at all. Too many failures with great teams. He should have won more. He was not called Tony "one and done" Dungy for nothing....

1st time hearing it.

[chad72]

1st time hearing it.

 

Its an ESPN thing "one and Dungy" is the phrase they used to use when his one-and-dones with the Bucs were followed by one-and-dones with the Colts.

[bayone]

Peyton was at MVP level those years.  He won it under Caldwell when they lost.  He was the runner up last year when they lost and the year he lost to the Titans he finished third and finished fifth in MVP voting in 2000 when they lost to Miami.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/01/05/warner_mvp_ap/

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/12/27/faulk001227.html

 

Again the numbers are just not there to back up the theory that Dungy hurt the Colts more than he helped them.  When he was here they won more than any other time in Colts franchise history.  When 10 wins is the "bad" season out of seven you are doing something right.  If Pagano can do half of what Dungy did when Dungy was here he will be remembered as a very good coach.   

 

wish Dungy belived in building the monster DL & OL , but esp DL

[Jason_]

Peyton was at MVP level those years.  He won it under Caldwell when they lost.  He was the runner up last year when they lost and the year he lost to the Titans he finished third and finished fifth in MVP voting in 2000 when they lost to Miami.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/01/05/warner_mvp_ap/

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/12/27/faulk001227.html

 

Again the numbers are just not there to back up the theory that Dungy hurt the Colts more than he helped them.  When he was here they won more than any other time in Colts franchise history.  When 10 wins is the "bad" season out of seven you are doing something right.  If Pagano can do half of what Dungy did when Dungy was here he will be remembered as a very good coach.   

 

And they won 13 games that season...with Mora.  I was in a rush when making my last point that's why I lumped 1999 and 2000 together when I shouldn't have.  However, even though he was still in the running for league MVP that year, he still did not have the in-game experience and maturity that he had a couple of years later.  And that actually furthers the point though.  Manning and the Colts won 13 games in 2000 with Mora, they won 14 games in 2009 under Caldwell and 10 games in 2010 under Caldwell (with a very long list of players on IR).  

 

To me that tells me that Peyton was the common denominator in the double-digit wins and playoff appearances.  However, once the team gets into the playoffs, it becomes a whole different ball game.  Once in the playoffs, the running game and defense become more important.  

 

I'm not saying that Dungy was the only thing that held the Colts back.  I also think that Peyton was given too much control too soon as far as play calling goes.  But strictly speaking of Dungy, I do think he's overrated, especially in terms of being a "defensive mastermind."  He was a good head coach but I wouldn't say great and definitely wouldn't put him in the top 20.  

[JoKeR]

Welcome to Bizzarro Day here on the Colts board! LOL...

;)

The subject of Tony Dungy baffles me. We won our only ring in Indy underneath him yet he's still heavily scrutinized by Colts fans. I think Dungy did his best with the talent Polian gave him on defense. That defense worked well when or offense played well. When the offense struggled our defense didn't have the talent to bail out the offense.

[GoPats]

it isn't the only way, but when dungy had a better winning percentage than reeves and has a ring, how could he be lower on the lisr. also bud grant would rank dungy higher than himself.

 

Oh I was just playing around bud... my mind is just kind of blown by this thread, lol...

 

Cheers! Happy Memorial Day Weekend to you and yours...

[GoPats]

The subject of Tony Dungy baffles me. We won our only ring in Indy underneath him yet he's still heavily scrutinized by Colts fans. I think Dungy did his best with the talent Polian gave him on defense. That defense worked well when or offense played well. When the offense struggled our defense didn't have the talent to bail out the offense.

 

I wonder if the scheme came first or the personnel. Cover-2 is designed to protect leads, right? Avoid big plays? I recall most of the Indy teams through the 2000s being undersized but fast.

[JoKeR]

I wonder if the scheme came first or the personnel. Cover-2 is designed to protect leads, right? Avoid big plays? I recall most of the Indy teams through the 2000s being undersized but fast.

I'm sure scheme came first and players did fit the scheme but a lot of the players on D were average, some worse.( Gilbert Gardner for example who was a starter for nearly 2 years )

[GoPats]

I'm sure scheme came first and players did fit the scheme but a lot of the players on D were average, some worse.( Gilbert Gardner for example who was a starter for nearly 2 years )

 

One thing that's been true forever... draft poorly in this league and it won't be long before someone else is doing your job.

[JoKeR]

One thing that's been true forever... draft poorly in this league and it won't be long before someone else is doing your job.

Just ask Bill and >Chris< Polian.

[JoKeR]

Indy, if someone says 1 of your coaches was top 20 all-time, just accept it. ;)

[Gramz]

Indy, if someone says 1 of your coaches was top 20 all-time, just accept it. ;)

     btw   I have the utmost respect for Tony as a person and Coach.

 

I gladly accept this.  ;)

[JoKeR]

Out of likes Gramz

[GoColts8818]

The subject of Tony Dungy baffles me. We won our only ring in Indy underneath him yet he's still heavily scrutinized by Colts fans. I think Dungy did his best with the talent Polian gave him on defense. That defense worked well when or offense played well. When the offense struggled our defense didn't have the talent to bail out the offense.

Me too.  It seems like people don't like to give anyone else who was here with Peyton credit for anything.  I can only think that they some how they feel like giving someone else credit for being good is some how takes away from Peyton's greatness.  I mean it took Marvin retiring and a new QB for people to finally admit Reggie Wayne was a good player and not just a product of Manning and being on the other side of Marvin. 

 

The Colts put their money in offense to carry the load and brought Dungy in to get the most out of a defense on a shoe string budget outside of Freeney and Mathis really and he did that he turned that into a Super Bowl Championship and never lost fewer than 10 games while he was here and never missed the playoffs.  I am sorry but that's good.  Think about this the Colts won 12 or more games six times under Dungy.  The Colts have won more than 10 games in a season three times with the rest of the coaches combined since they came to Indy, 99 with Mora with 13, 2009 with Caldwell with 14 and 2012 with Pagano/Arians with 11.  Dungy alone has twice as many season with more than 10 wins than the rest of the coaches in the history of the Colts since they came to Indianapolis.  There is a reason he's going to go to the Hall of Fame and it's not just because he had Peyton Manning.  Frankly he probably had a hand in why Manning was so good when he was here.  Honestly I think Dungy's calm leadership was exactly what someone who is wound as tightly as Manning is needed.  He knew when to give to Peyton to let him do what he did but he also had the calm leadership to keep things focused and from going off the track with panic. 

 

Manning has played 14 years in the NFL (not counting the 2011 season)

 

Seven with Dungy seven without.  With him Manning made the playoffs every year and went 7-6 in the playoffs.  Without him Manning's teams missed the playoffs twice and is just 2-5 in the playoffs.  Those numbers seem to suggest Manning's playoff struggles go beyond Dungy.  In fact they seem to suggest that Dungy got more out of Manning the playoffs than any other coach he has had in terms of wins and loses.  He's won playoff games in just one season without Dungy vs. doing it three times with Dungy.  I am sorry based on that don't buy the argument that it was Dungy who held Manning back in the playoffs (which I know you aren't making that case) in fact I think just the reverse I think Dungy has had more success in the playoffs than any other coach Manning has had to this point in his career. 

 

Factor in what Dungy did with turning the Bucs around and yes he's going to the Hall of Fame.  There isn't really an argument to be made that can be backed up with some kind of numbers that says Dungy wasn't a good coach.  This person ranked him as the 20th best coach in NFL history not top five.  It's not like they are saying he is up there with the Shula, Lombardi, or BB.  He's being ranked around people like Mike Shannon.  Are people really going to tell me that Shannon and Tony Dungy aren't in the same class? 

[GoColts8818]

I wonder if the scheme came first or the personnel. Cover-2 is designed to protect leads, right? Avoid big plays? I recall most of the Indy teams through the 2000s being undersized but fast.

Yep Dungy was a big believer in speed kills.  Everything was about causing the other team to make mistakes to get turnovers and he felt having guys who could fly around were the way to do that. 

[amfootball]

it isn't the only way, but when dungy had a better winning percentage than reeves and has a ring, how could he be lower on the lisr. also bud grant would rank dungy higher than himself.

Reeves took Chris Chandler to the SB. Trump card.

[jvan1973]

Reeves took Chris Chandler to the SB. Trump card.

he took elway three times and lost.

[Andy]

Great coach, not in the top 20 all time.