PFF Quarterback Podcast: Andrew Luck

[Coltfreak]

8 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

If only the players felt as Superman, NCF, you, and so many others here on that premise-

 

And yet, with Luck not playing the latter half of 2015 and MH without the arm to 'run the playbook', TY Hilton and the WR gang were miffed at the lack of a 'deep passing game'.

 

"Per Stephen Holder of the Indianapolis Star, Hilton elaborated that the short-game attack has prevented the Colts from building yards after the catch, a major struggle for the team this year. 

The Colts offense has been forced to adjust with Matt Hasselbeck under center for the injured Andrew Luck, and the 40-year-old backup simply doesn’t possess the arm strength or vertical accuracy compared to Luck, who’s considered among the league’s best.

Hilton added that the passing struggles have had a direct effect on the running game, per Holder.

“Once we start taking shots, it will loosen up the run game and the passing game,” Hilton said. “Instead of it being five, six, seven (defenders) in the box, it’s all 11. They’re just waiting.”

 

Defenses adjust to anything, D coordinators scout you and devise a defense to stop you.O coordinators design plays to move the ball and eventually score.  Sometimes you have to out execute your opponent, no matter what scheme you run...

I'm not saying get rid of it completely. But there are numerous times Luck has an underneath player open and chooses the deep play     

 

I was a STH and seeing Dorsett open on a slant or crossing route get open and Luck pass on that read was very frustrating.  

 

The main adjustment I believe that has needed to be made is not so many 7 step drops because the Oline isn't good enough yet.    Once it's solid and can sustain. then by all means stretch the field 

 

and of course TY is going to say that.  He's a receiver. He wants big yards 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

15 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

I'm not saying get rid of it completely. But there are numerous times Luck has an underneath player open and chooses the deep play     

 

If a receiver is open underneath, and Luck holds thew ball waiting for the deep throw, anything that happens (good or bad)  is on Luck the QB, not the OC..

 

Quote

I was a STH and seeing Dorsett open on a slant or crossing route get open and Luck pass on that read was very frustrating.  

 

 

That happened a lot...

 

Quote

 

The main adjustment I believe that has needed to be made is not so many 7 step drops because the Oline isn't good enough yet.    Once it's solid and can sustain. then by all means stretch the field 

 

and of course TY is going to say that.  He's a receiver. He wants big yards

 

There just plain wasn't, and this is what happened when Luck went down in 2015:

 

** The Colts’ offense has been downright anemic in recent weeks, scoring a total of two offensive touchdowns the past three games. Against the Texans, quarterback Matt Hasselbeck attempted just seven passes longer than 10 yards, a reflection – according to Hilton – of play-caller Rob Chudzinski’s conservative approach.

The Colts were one of the boldest offenses in the NFL in 2014, recording 78 explosive passing plays (defined as 20 yards or longer) and leading the NFL in passing. This season, the Colts have 43 such completions, are one of the worst passing offenses in the league and fired offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton after a Week 8 loss to Carolina.**

[theanarchist]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:47 PM, southwest1 said:

Unlucky picks? 

 

No such thing stitches. Like they said in the podcast, know when to the throw the ball away & live to fight another down. 

I have to differ with you on this one. In my opinion an unlucky pick is a pick that you really cant put on the QB. Example: QB throws a nice ball and it bounces off a receivers hands and in intercepted, a ball batted at the line that is intercepted. I'll agree there is no way to quantify those things, they are picks in the stat sheet but its impossible to tell with any certainty how those picks were generated and I also agree that every QB in the league is susceptible to those types of stats so it's probably just as even across the league.

[Luck is Good]

Colts need to go to a short passing game with occasional deep shots. This OL is not good enough to hold up in protection for constant deep throws. That's honestly probably the one thing that has enraged me the most with the Luck Era. Yes the defense and OL have been maddening as well, but when the offense isn't adjusted to suit the QB, I don't have words for that

[crazycolt1]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:53 PM, Coltfreak said:

I've been saying this ever since Chud was given the OC job.    I'm sure CrazyColt will find fault with what I just said though 

Sorry, I don't monitor your every comment just to find fault.

[Defjamz26]

See that's why a quick passing offense would help him out a lot more this year hopefully Ballard has told them to do that because that's exactly what he saw when he was in KC and that's all smith throws lol

It seems like EVERYBODY understands this, except the Colts coaching staff -- which is so frustrating. The most important thing is to protect Luck, right?

 

Coaches response: Let's have him take 7-step drops on long developing plays on nearly every snap.

 

All that tells me is that Pagano is the problem. 3 different OCs and he's still running that Chunk play offense. That means it has to be the HC.

 

 

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[ColtsBlueFL]

On 5/13/2017 at 1:52 PM, Flash7 said:

It seems like EVERYBODY understands this, except the Colts coaching staff -- which is so frustrating. The most important thing is to protect Luck, right?

 

Coaches response: Let's have him take 7-step drops on long developing plays on nearly every snap.

 

No, I think we run 11 personnel  (1 TE and 1 RB, 3 WR)  between 65 - 70% of all plays.  And we likely pass out of other sets too.  Yet, only 39% of ALL pass plays are 7 step drop equivalents (equivalent, because PFF considers the QB at 9-10 yards deep from under center or shotgun (whether it takes 3 or 5 steps to do it) is considered a 7 step drop.

 

On 5/13/2017 at 4:41 PM, NannyMcafee said:

Man the colts like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I hope this changes this year. 

 

On 5/13/2017 at 4:46 PM, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

Very interesting!

 

Executive summary; We need a new OC! 

 

Other things in podcast-

"Luck is a QB that throws the ball down the field more than most, but in 2016 he cut that back, at least a little bit..."

That's because of this (Pre season 2016, especially at Ravens game)-

 

"Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski is incorporating more quick, short underneath throws within the team’s offensive play-calling in the hopes that it will help starting quarterback Andrew Luck‘s pocket protection by ultimately avoiding unnecessary hits:"

 

“Some of the things we want to get the ball out quick and get it out of his hand, and those are some of the things that we’ve been working on quite a bit,” said offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski"

 

Full article here-

 

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/08/24/colts-offense-andrew-luck-incorporating-quick-short-underneath-throws/

 

13 hours ago, Luck is Good said:

Colts need to go to a short passing game with occasional deep shots. This OL is not good enough to hold up in protection for constant deep throws. That's honestly probably the one thing that has enraged me the most with the Luck Era. Yes the defense and OL have been maddening as well, but when the offense isn't adjusted to suit the QB, I don't have words for that

 

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

All that tells me is that Pagano is the problem. 3 different OCs and he's still running that Chunk play offense. That means it has to be the HC.

 

No, it's the OC.  Chud's playbook is hundreds or thousands of play diagrams; all built upon the Don Coryell vertical attack offensive plan Coryell and Dan Fouts created and ran in San Diego.  Of course, all things evolve, and so has Chud's play book..  It's different than Norv Turner's Air Coryell Vertical passing attack. .  Yet not nearly as different as a West Coast dink and dunk OC playbook.  The vertical passing attaxck can and will have hot reads, and some short patterns.  but always has a chunk play receiver in route.  If Luck always looks long, then it's a much on him than the play.  Many folkstafge of turnover worthy throws,  saw open receivers underneath, yet Luck went for the deep ball many times. 

 

Also in the podcast-

 

Luck "Big Time Throws" - 11th in the league as a Rookie (Arians), then 5th, and then 5th again (Pep Hamilton. 2013-2014), 2015  was injury year, then last year down to 13th.

 

At 9:19 in podcast-  "Last year his game changed, it was a quicker passing game, (as Chud said it would in preseason above) lower percentage of Big Time throws, and lower percentage of turnover worthy throws, ... so different from his prior years.  However, the plays are all full progression plays. 

 

Granted, rarely is a (just) WR screen or quick slant called (primary).  That is what I think people want to see at times... to mix it up here and there.

 

More -

 

"Colts ran 260 intermediate drop backs (fairly standard) and (as mentioned) 220 deep drops."  "and 91 short (3 step) drop backs."   They also mention that in those 220 deep drops, Lucks was "very good at it and graded very well, way above the league average and his average depth of target was 13 yards (chunk play territory)"

 

"Yet, there was progress made last year as Luck took better care of the ball, and they didn't 'drive' the ball down the field, lower than previous years."

 

"Luck tends to 'milk a play' to the very last.  Likewise, he is very good at avoiding sacks."

 

"Luck refuses to take a sack (sometimes needs to), forcing plays late in the down."

 

In essence though, I do not mind the general concept of Chud's scheme... with Andrew running it, though.  He's one of the best at it.  But I'd also like to see some bubble screens and quick slants, more motion, and decent run game to allow more play action. thrown in  knowing all along if we get a penalty on a drive or somehow end up 3rd and 7, we still have 'that' playbook available.  And not just on 3rd and long either.

 

[Defjamz26]

@ColtsBlueFL

 

I understand but I don't see why they don't move towards a more WCO type passing game. Luck would dissect any defense if he ran the type of system Brady does. He accels at what he's doing now and we know he's got the arm talent to sling it downfield, but it's taking its toll on him. 3 diff OC's and we've had the same problem. I think the HC is the problem then. But I don't anticipate Pagano being here much longer anyways. Bottom line is something has got to change.

 

 

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[ColtsBlueFL]

55 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

@ColtsBlueFL

 

I understand but I don't see why they don't move towards a more WCO type passing game. Luck would dissect any defense if he ran the type of system Brady does. He accels at what he's doing now and we know he's got the arm talent to sling it downfield, but it's taking its toll on him. 3 diff OC's and we've had the same problem. I think the HC is the problem then. But I don't anticipate Pagano being here much longer anyways. Bottom line is something has got to change.

 

 

In that respect, (problem being considered as in charge of coaches and schemes), you are right.  We won't go primarily WCO, because Arians, and Chudzinski have playbooks an language based upon  Vertical attack structure. However, that does not mean some WCO type influences aren't there... they are.  and Chud is bringing more of them into play.  But remember, almost all systems, are hybrids now.  Chud hired Norv Turner, who had incorporated some WCO timing patterns into the scheme.  Chud knows this, it was his OC hire.  and he subscribes to that type of O thinking and creativity.  Now Chud is OC and it's his time for OC play design to create mismatches that give your guys the advantage.  But do NOT expect a full WCO playbook under Pagano/Chudzinski.  not going to happen.  Best yuo (we) can hope is that the playbook does include more options that utilize some WCO influences and that Lucks progressions don't take too long to get to that aspect of the play called.

 

I do want to point out something to the WCO banner flyers.  WCO is a pure timing system.  Exteme tightness and precision between the QB and all receivers is mandatory.  With Luck not throwing to his receivers now and for the foreseeable future (thus no reps, and would not doubt he might begin training camp on the pre-season PUP list) , how effective do you think he and the receivers will be early in the season on timing plays? 

 

Now, if Pagano gets the boot next season as you anticipate, the new HC will likely drive the OC hiring too,.  (meaning if Chuck goes, Chud goes too, in all likelihood).  And GM Ballard will have a say in HC.  So...