Luck will have better season than Manning............

[supremecoltsfan300]

http://www.nfl.com/n...ivers-the-goods

thanks for posting. I think that supports my argument pretty well. And again, there were quite a few outdoor, cold temperature games where manning didnt play the whole game because they had everything locked up already.

[Warhawk]

http://www.nfl.com/n...ivers-the-goods

That just reinforces what I'm saying.

Indoors or out, Manning's one of the best, even if his rating drops 8.3 points in natural environments

It's not that Manning is any worse than anyone else outdoors, but everyone is worse outdoors.

I.E, if Luck ended up with a QB rating about 8-10 points higher than Manning this season, it would mean they played at roughly the same level over the course of the season.

[Warhawk]

This is just not true. an actual source with the stats to back it up would go a l ong way to supporting your point. Just looking at two of the qbs you mentioned who play outdoors, brady and rodgers have much better home numbers than road numbers. those home numbers are all outdoor numbers.

You're ignoring all the road outdoors games they play. Yahoo Sports has split stats for players. I'm not making this stuff up, check it yourself. Virtually all QBs have better indoor QB ratings than outdoor ones.

Brady has a 103.1 rating indoors, 95.8 outdoors. Rodgers is 111.3 / 102.4.

Here, look:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7200/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5887/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1025/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4650/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6624/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5994/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8795/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7201/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4319/splits;_ylt=AtvPV21e.8t9.sa_MWSHEbX.uLYF?year=career

Granted, it only goes back to 2000, so if you want to dig up Favre's old stats you're welcome to, but that's a pretty good set of data I think.

[coltsfanatic24]

not only will luck have a better season then manning but the colts will have a better record then broncos. i think the chargers will win the division because manning has always had problems with the chargers defense, also romeo crennel will have a great gameplan to confuse manning. the broncos have the toughest schedule in the league and has to play the afc north and nfc south.

my prediction-colts 9-7 luck 4,200yds 28tds 14in'ts wins: bears,jax2x,texans,titans,dolphins,browns,bills,vikings

losses: packers,patriots,lions,chiefs,jets,titans,texans,

broncos-6-10 manning 3,900yds 26td's 15int's wins:raiders2x,chiefs,bucs,panthers,browns losses: steerlers, falcons,saints,patriots,ravens,bengals,chargers2x,chiefs,texans

[supremecoltsfan300]

You're ignoring all the road outdoors games they play. Yahoo Sports has split stats for players. I'm not making this stuff up, check it yourself. Virtually all QBs have better indoor QB ratings than outdoor ones.

Brady has a 103.1 rating indoors, 95.8 outdoors. Rodgers is 111.3 / 102.4.

The sample size is ridiculously small for some of these guys....rodgers has 13, brady has just 14 over all these years just wow.........

rodgers is explainable, the games he has played in indoors have generally been pretty poor defensive teams. He does have great numbers though, but again the size is small. However brady, while i agree that his rating is higher (actually im not agreeing what you're saying is fact) the actual numbers imo favor the outdoor stats. td to int ratio is considerably better indoors than outdoors. again it's a small sample size and some of those games indoors were against the colts who i think we can agree had a pretty horrible pass defense (and predictable to say the least), inflating some of those numbers.

And remember that outdoor games can have horrible weather like a blizzard, where a qb might peform absolutely terribly and that could drastically affect his stats (ex., he throws 6 picks, 0 tds). that becomes more like an outlier messing up the distribution.

Outdoor games do no usually have horrible weather. But when they do, it can distort the data.

The small sample size makes it really hard to draw anything conclusive about the effect indoor/outdoor has outside of whether its the homefield advantage or not.

[Warhawk]

Yes, the sample size is small, but the overwhelming majority of QBs play better indoors, small sample size or not. If you have 50 data points of small sample sizes, and 45 of them go one way and the other 5 go the other, you can draw a conclusion from that.

In any case, you're looking at the data that shows that almost every QB of note has a better rating indoors. If you still think that Manning is the only guy in the NFL who doesn't play better outdoors, I can't really help you. The statistics overwhelmingly say otherwise.

[Warhawk]

Additionally, on the subject of small sample sizes, the sample sizes of the handful of guys who play better outdoors tend to be even smaller. Most of the links I posted of players who play better indoors were of players with at least 10 indoor games. The ONLY player I've found with at least 10 indoor games who plays better outdoors is Vick, and like I said, there's an obvious explanation for that.

EDIT: OK, I found another one. Matt Schaub plays indoors at home but has a better QB rating outdoors.

Yeah, I really can't explain that one, but since your point is about outdoor QBs playing indoors, I'm not sure it's relevant.

Stafford, Ryan, McCoy and Young also better outdoors.

Sanchez. Newton, Moore and Alex Smith better indoors.

In any case, here's the list:

Better Indoors:

P. Manning

E. Manning

Roethlisberger

Brady

Brees

Rodgers

Romo

McNabb

Palmer

Favre

Hasselbeck

McNair

Leftwich

Batch

Campbell

Carr

Cutler

Flacco

Garrard

Stafford

Ryan

McCoy

Young

Better Outdoors:

Grossman

Leftwich

Vick

Schaub

Sanchez

Newton

Moore

A. Smith

[supremecoltsfan300]

Yes, the sample size is small, but the overwhelming majority of QBs play better indoors, small sample size or not. If you have 50 data points of small sample sizes, and 45 of them go one way and the other 5 go the other, you can draw a conclusion from that.

In any case, you're looking at the data that shows that almost every QB of note has a better rating indoors. If you still think that Manning is the only guy in the NFL who doesn't play better outdoors, I can't really help you. The statistics overwhelmingly say otherwise.

The sample size of 10 games is not conclusive....

again the qbs who have way better stats indoors vs outdoors play their home games indoors. I'm just saying that outside of a game where the weather is a diaster, there is no noticeable difference in qb A's performance in outdoor games (that are not home games) vs qb A's perfomance in indoor games (that are not home games). If you just look at afc qbs who play outdoors for their home games, their stats indoors has a very small sample size and that sample size is highly vulnerable to being distorted because 20-40% of those indoor games were played against a poor Colts D. (not trying to beat up on the colts d, just using it as an example). so if they were able to do great against that colts d in that one game or two, and then the rest of the indoor games they performed like how they do on average in outdoor games, it would make the stats show a considerable difference in the indoor vs outdoor stats b/c the sample size is so small.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You're ignoring all the road outdoors games they play. Yahoo Sports has split stats for players. I'm not making this stuff up, check it yourself. Virtually all QBs have better indoor QB ratings than outdoor ones.

Brady has a 103.1 rating indoors, 95.8 outdoors. Rodgers is 111.3 / 102.4.

The biggest thing is who they are playing. Historically over the past 10-13 years the teams that play in a dome have weaker defenses as well.

Patriots fans used to always toot their horn about imagine Brady indoors, well if they put a dome in New England I believe his overall indoors #'s would drop-off to a degree because he would be facing all comers.. Strong teams, weak teams, average teams. So they kept tooting their horn so I wanted to get more of an apples to apples look at it.

I took Manning's games, in a dome, yet on the road.

Here it is:

It's clear Manning played hurt the last half of 2006-2010, and in that time he took home 2 MVP's and a Lombardi. Some are quick to write him off and some seem to have a bit enjoyment about that, which is out right embarrassing.

Someone quoted him at less than 50% completion balls thrown 11+yards while that may be true. So were Brady & Rodgers over the last three years.

Considering only 1/3 of Manning's passing attempts have gone over that 11 yard mark, it isn't a huge issue. That's within 3%of Brady, Brees and Rodgers as well. Out of those 4 only Rodgers has thrown the ball more often at that split.

Like I said, threads like this are only to cause more flareups on here and divide the fanbase.

[Jules]

Success this season will be determined in different ways considering the situations are different for each QB.

Luck is a rookie walking into a rebuilding situation with a team who finished 2-14 last season.

Peyton is an established HOFer who joined a team who with Tebow (who everyone bashes) won the division and ended up upsetting the defending AFC Champions in the playoffs. The Peyton led Broncos HAVE MUCH higher expectations for Denver fans then the Colts with Luck this year have for Colts fans. If Peyton doesn't at least win at least one playoff game this year you can bet you will hear, "But Tebow did......"

Luck COULD have a better season in terms of fan expectations since ours are lower for his rookie season then Broncos fans are for Manning and their squad heading into this year.

[supremecoltsfan300]

the best way i can put it is like this:

say you were evaluating the accuracy of a clock:

this clock is broken and it always reads 12:00

You check the accuracy of the clock three times, one at 11:00, one at 12:00, one at 1:00.

You would say that based on your recordings, the clock was accurate 33% of the time.

Now had you done that accuracy check every hour starting at 9:00 and ending at 3:00, the clock would only be accurate (1/7)% much lower than 33%.

Just trying to say that the small sample size can really be affected by a one time outlier, giving way to wrong conclusions.

[FireJimCaldwell]

EDIT: OK, I found another one. Matt Schaub plays indoors at home but has a better QB rating outdoors.

Schaub's #'s could be a bit distorted since some of his "HOME" games are still outdoors due to the open roof.

You're ignoring all the road outdoors games they play. Yahoo Sports has split stats for players. I'm not making this stuff up, check it yourself. Virtually all QBs have better indoor QB ratings than outdoor ones.

Brady has a 103.1 rating indoors, 95.8 outdoors. Rodgers is 111.3 / 102.4.

Here, look:

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

Granted, it only goes back to 2000, so if you want to dig up Favre's old stats you're welcome to, but that's a pretty good set of data I think.

Even with Favre, the year by year splits are unavailable on the surface, but his totals, I believe match his career totals. 508 TD's, etc.

The Browser address can be maniuplated to go back to 1994.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1025/splits;_ylt=Aq5UTq9JiwZD3bkLfNJvl3n.uLYF?year=1994

[Warhawk]

The sample size of 10 games is not conclusive....

again the qbs who have way better stats indoors vs outdoors play their home games indoors. I'm just saying that outside of a game where the weather is a diaster, there is no noticeable difference in qb A's performance in outdoor games (that are not home games) vs qb A's perfomance in indoor games (that are not home games). If you just look at afc qbs who play outdoors for their home games, their stats indoors has a very small sample size and that sample size is highly vulnerable to being distorted because 20-40% of those indoor games were played against a poor Colts D. (not trying to beat up on the colts d, just using it as an example). so if they were able to do great against that colts d in that one game or two, and then the rest of the indoor games they performed like how they do on average in outdoor games, it would make the stats show a considerable difference in the indoor vs outdoor stats b/c the sample size is so small.

OK, first thing, I edited my previous post to put two lists comparing the QBs who are better indoors vs. outdoors.

Second thing: from 2006 to 2009, the Colts were within the top half of the league in DPR (and a couple times pretty high, even). And from 2002-2005, while they weren't top half, they weren't among the worst in the league (closer to 20th-24th). So based on that, you'd expect only younger, or newly-AFC, QBs to be skewed towards doing better indoors, while older QBs (who played the Colts when their pass defense was good) would be better data. Except that's not the case - Schaub came to the Texans a couple years ago, plays his home games indoors, and plays the Colts often, and STILL plays better outdoors, strangely enough. So the one guy who has a big sample set, AND played the Colts a number of times while their pass defense was bad, AND plays indoors at home, is also the one guy who very strangly plays better outdoors.

So, point being, no, it does not appear that the Colts defense has anything to do with the league-wide QB stats being better indoors. Which is very clearly the case.

[Warhawk]

Oh, and here's the other thing. Yes, dome teams have tended to have worse pass defenses, statistically, than outdoor teams. But it is very possible that their pass defense statistics are skewed because they play in domes, and thus QBs play better against them when they play a home game.

[supremecoltsfan300]

The only conclusive trend is that teams play better at home and qbs play better at home as well. Everything else has too many varaiables and a small sample size where the sample can easily be skewed by an outlier or too. And while I do like quarterback rating that is not a perfect measurement of quarterback performance. Tds, Ints have to be considered as well (independently of the rating). Small sample sizes have brought you kevin kolb and matt flynn (well that hasnt officially been a bust yet but give it a year) as massively overpaid starters. Even nfl teams fall victim to believing in small samples.

[Gavin]

I cant fault Kolb much, He has crap at the O Line and a rookie who could turn out to be good on the O Line, but the rest, crap, Kolb about got killed in that first pre season game and got injured

[GoColts8818]

1070 had a guy on from the broncos radio network today to talk about Peyton and they said Peyton has told them he's not the same player before the injury and they will have to lean on the number one ranked ground game than the colts did. I think the colts and luck will be forced to throw more than Peyton so I could see how luck puts up some better numbers but I don't know if numbers alone means luck had a better season than Peyton. Time will tell I have a hard time thinking any rookie qb will have a better season than the only four time MVP in the history of the nfl even if he's not the same player.

[LightninMax]

Say what ya want, but if Manning wins super bowls for the Broncos he will be remembered as the guy that Indy didn't believe in and he will go into the hall of fame as a Bronco! If he gets hurt and never makes another super bowl appearance he'll just be over the hill and holding on.

If A. Luck makes the super bowl and performs for a decade then it will be said that Indy made the right decision. If he doesn't then Indy will be remembered as giving up on the GOAT!

Personally, I think they will both have great seasons. I think AL will take the Colts to the brink or sqeak into the playoffs and I believe that Manning will take the Broncos to the Super Bowl!

In any case, that's now. Ask the question again after week 8.

[Yehoodi]

The biggest thing is who they are playing. Historically over the past 10-13 years the teams that play in a dome have weaker defenses as well.

Patriots fans used to always toot their horn about imagine Brady indoors, well if they put a dome in New England I believe his overall indoors #'s would drop-off to a degree because he would be facing all comers.. Strong teams, weak teams, average teams. So they kept tooting their horn so I wanted to get more of an apples to apples look at it.

I took Manning's games, in a dome, yet on the road.

Here it is:

It's clear Manning played hurt the last half of 2006-2010, and in that time he took home 2 MVP's and a Lombardi. Some are quick to write him off and some seem to have a bit enjoyment about that, which is out right embarrassing.

Someone quoted him at less than 50% completion balls thrown 11+yards while that may be true. So were Brady & Rodgers over the last three years.

Considering only 1/3 of Manning's passing attempts have gone over that 11 yard mark, it isn't a huge issue. That's within 3%of Brady, Brees and Rodgers as well. Out of those 4 only Rodgers has thrown the ball more often at that split.

Like I said, threads like this are only to cause more flareups on here and divide the fanbase.

Oh lordy . . . was getting ready to hit the hay and then the alarm bells went off on my computer telling me that the keywords "brady" "manning" "indoors" "outdoors" "stats" "better" and "pats fans" were all in the same thread on the colts fan forum, and never wanting to miss a good opportunity, I just to investigate . . . got my alarms shut off and figure i put my two cents in this thread . .. so much to right and so little time, will try to get it all in before my computer turns into a pumkin 12 AM EST . . . here goes

indoor/outdoor stats

I do believe that it makes a difference (rain, snow, wind, field condition from them, etc) can all effect the way the game is played . .. true TB sample size is small, but is impressive and as Warhawk indicated those dome teams defendees numbers might be inflated as they are playing indoors and QBs have a better chance . . . also to if you look across the board most QBs have betteer numbers inside . . . indeed I think Farve best passer rating year was when he was indoors with Minn.

Also indoors the field condition is better . . . after we lost to the Jets in November 2006 (which btw was the first back to back lost since 2002) . . . Kraft finaly broke down (maybe cause we lost back to back and to the hated Jets) and put field turf in Gilette (and it was installed in like 4 days !!) . . . this was the start of TBs record consecutive home winning streak and i think we have only lost twice at home, once to the Gmen last reg season and when we got spanked by Baltimore in the 09 playoffs . . . surely TB has gotten some better offensive talent around him but part of the increase in TB's performance Nov. 2006 to the present, has something to do with the improve field conditions . . . so yes in my book indoor condition (where all field as in great shape) do help . . .

and yes FJC, who you play is key and we need to look at that and look behind the stats of players . .. and if one has a small sample size and 70% are really bad, one needs to look at that . . . also too wee need to look at who they play and compare the defenses of the divisions and QBs play 6 games per year against division rivals . . .

Mannng/Luck

I would take the comparsion as a compliment . . . you got a rookie that is being looked at comparable to one of the best of his generation . . . and even is touted as one of the best coming out since the merger, with PM, Elway also being in the discussion . . .

and also we must remember that an exit by a 1st HOFer is very rare, and when it happens you gonna get the boo birds wanting to put thier two cents in on the decisions . . . it happened with Montana/Young and Farve/Rogers . . .its just one of those things . . . how are things after the change . . .and surely it happens with lessor publicize trades/FA like with Richard Seymour and the pats . and so on . . .

as for Manning and Luck, something tells me that Luck will have better opportunity to yeild better stats . . .but that will not necessarily translate that he will have the better year . . . we'll have to wait and see what happens . . . sadly (or excitingly depending on your what you like to discuss) this debate/folllowing going to go on thoughout the year and likely beyond . . .

Alas, whenever a FO makes a decision, the media loves to analyze and when have 6 hours a day, there is plenty of time to discuss all the transactions in the sport . . .

surely, it might cause some rif in the fanbase, but the good news that if you did not have that rif, you would not have that good of a QBs too . . . :yay:

[FireJimCaldwell]

Oh lordy . . . was getting ready to hit the hay and then the alarm bells went off on my computer telling me that the keywords "brady" "manning" "indoors" "outdoors" "stats" "better" and "pats fans" were all in the same thread on the colts fan forum, and never wanting to miss a good opportunity, I just to investigate . . . got my alarms shut off and figure i put my two cents in this thread . .. so much to right and so little time, will try to get it all in before my computer turns into a pumkin 12 AM EST . . . here goes

indoor/outdoor stats

I do believe that it makes a difference (rain, snow, wind, field condition from them, etc) can all effect the way the game is played . .. true TB sample size is small, but is impressive and as Warhawk indicated those dome teams defendees numbers might be inflated as they are playing indoors and QBs have a better chance . . . also to if you look across the board most QBs have betteer numbers inside . . . indeed I think Farve best passer rating year was when he was indoors with Minn.

Also indoors the field condition is better . . . after we lost to the Jets in November 2006 (which btw was the first back to back lost since 2002) . . . Kraft finaly broke down (maybe cause we lost back to back and to the hated Jets) and put field turf in Gilette (and it was installed in like 4 days !!) . . . this was the start of TBs record consecutive home winning streak and i think we have only lost twice at home, once to the Gmen last reg season and when we got spanked by Baltimore in the 09 playoffs . . . surely TB has gotten some better offensive talent around him but part of the increase in TB's performance Nov. 2006 to the present, has something to do with the improve field conditions . . . so yes in my book indoor condition (where all field as in great shape) do help . . .

and yes FJC, who you play is key and we need to look at that and look behind the stats of players . .. and if one has a small sample size and 70% are really bad, one needs to look at that . . . also too wee need to look at who they play and compare the defenses of the divisions and QBs play 6 games per year against division rivals . . .

Mannng/Luck

I would take the comparsion as a compliment . . . you got a rookie that is being looked at comparable to one of the best of his generation . . . and even is touted as one of the best coming out since the merger, with PM, Elway also being in the discussion . . .

and also we must remember that an exit by a 1st HOFer is very rare, and when it happens you gonna get the boo birds wanting to put thier two cents in on the decisions . . . it happened with Montana/Young and Farve/Rogers . . .its just one of those things . . . how are things after the change . . .and surely it happens with lessor publicize trades/FA like with Richard Seymour and the pats . and so on . . .

as for Manning and Luck, something tells me that Luck will have better opportunity to yeild better stats . . .but that will not necessarily translate that he will have the better year . . . we'll have to wait and see what happens . . . sadly (or excitingly depending on your what you like to discuss) this debate/folllowing going to go on thoughout the year and likely beyond . . .

Alas, whenever a FO makes a decision, the media loves to analyze and when have 6 hours a day, there is plenty of time to discuss all the transactions in the sport . . .

surely, it might cause some rif in the fanbase, but the good news that if you did not have that rif, you would not have that good of a QBs too . . . :yay:

We've broached this topic before. I can't remember if we discussed common opponents in the same conversation or not. But like you, my alarms went off a year or so ago and had to dig through the game logs and see what Manning had done on the road in a dome. I figured his #'s would be better than his overall indoor #'s because it's a smaller sample size, and the teams with domes(Rams, Falcons, Saints, Cardinals, Texans, Lions, Vikings) I might have left someone out, but oh well, those teams for the most of Manning's tenure had weakish defenses. When Brady adds the Colts to his list of dome opponents that doesn't exactly alter that position.

There is no doubt the field conditions have something to do with it. I think we both rather watch our teams in poor weather at Cleveland than in a dome vs. Baltimore. Obviously it's impossible for New England & Baltimore to square off in a dome, but you can get the point of the comment. Of course, either would love to feast on the Rams in their dome, but that's another story all together.

The opponents matter, and so do the conditions. Most if not all QB's have better #'s in a dry weather game than they do precipitation or snow but I do remember Cassel tearing Arizona up in the snow and Warner looking like he was 62. If that game is in Arizona, Warner would have had a better game, and who's to say it has the same outcome.

I take the majority of the comments with a grain of salt, and I'll just leave it at that.

[WoolMagnet]

He probably will stats wise, the QB position isn't exactly the same as it was in 1998.

Get with the program Vance.

They were comparing their 2012 seasons.

[WoolMagnet]

This is so ambiguous. Seems like another thread just to divide the fan-base.

Seriously?

You still are busting on Caldwell and you think I'M starting trouble?

This is a pretty big statement made by the crew at NFL channel.

And At least its current, not like the Jim Calwell stuff.

Let it go already.

[WoolMagnet]

Thank you for making me picture Peyton's wobbly balls.

.

Are you really that female trainer from Tennessee?

I'm sure she still has nightmares about his wobbly balls.

[John Dee]

Did anyone else see this on NFL AM on nfl network this morning?

They mainly talked about "arm strength" being the reason.

Many just don't think Manning will last the season I guess.

Also, "better" is a relative term.

Luck only needs to have a "good" season, while Manning is expected to lead the broncos to the Super bowl.

I think It is hilarious to compare them at this point, but I guess its been a slow news day.

Manning actually has a couple of really good WR's.. and Tamme. I think Peyton will burn it up this season, and maybe a few more.

Luck will burn it up for next decade and a half.

Honestly I think they are both going to have "very good" seasons.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Seriously?

You still are busting on Caldwell and you think I'M starting trouble?

This is a pretty big statement made by the crew at NFL channel.

And At least its current, not like the Jim Calwell stuff.

Let it go already.

I stand by statement and Jim Caldwell earned every negative comment made about him.

Nothing to let go.

It is what it is.

[WoolMagnet]

THIS is what I hope.

But if one does have to have a "better" season , I hope its Manning.

It would absolutely break my heart if Peyton doesn't end his career on a high note. (see Johnny U.)

He deserves soooooo much more IMO.

Luck will have his day, I can wait for that if needed.

[WoolMagnet]

I stand by statement and Jim Caldwell earned every negative comment made about him.

Nothing to let go.

It is what it is.

Just busting your butt "Jim".

But this IS a legitimate story to discuss. ESPN and NFL channel seem to think so.

It wasn't trolling.

B

ut I disagree about Caldwell earning all the negative comments about him.

Comments about coaching...yes. The PERSONAL attacks on him.....NO.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just busting your butt "Jim".

But this IS a legitimate story to discuss. ESPN and NFL channel seem to think so.

It wasn't trolling.

I understand... They might be talking about it, but I don't think we've seen enough of either player at this point to say much about it.

[WoolMagnet]

I understand... They might be talking about it, but I don't think we've seen enough of either player at this point to say much about it.

Well then I guess its a waste of time to talk football at all since theres only been one preseason game.

I'm gonna have to inform ESPN.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Well then I guess its a waste of time to talk football at all since theres only been one preseason game.

I'm gonna have to inform ESPN.

Some topics are more worthy than others... This might be better suited at midseason.

[GoColts8818]

Say what ya want, but if Manning wins super bowls for the Broncos he will be remembered as the guy that Indy didn't believe in and he will go into the hall of fame as a Bronco! If he gets hurt and never makes another super bowl appearance he'll just be over the hill and holding on.

If A. Luck makes the super bowl and performs for a decade then it will be said that Indy made the right decision. If he doesn't then Indy will be remembered as giving up on the GOAT!

Personally, I think they will both have great seasons. I think AL will take the Colts to the brink or sqeak into the playoffs and I believe that Manning will take the Broncos to the Super Bowl!

In any case, that's now. Ask the question again after week 8.

You don't go into the Hall of Fame with one team or another they list all the teams you played for that's why the Colts can claim Richard Dent as a Hall of Famer even though he only spent only a little time in Indianapolis at the very end of his career.

[John Dee]

I stand by statement and Jim Caldwell earned every negative comment made about him.

Nothing to let go.

It is what it is.

ya... his QB was out for the year and JC lost his job. Healthy Manning and YOU, ME, and everyone else is still "doing what we do" Including JC.....

I'm excited about the change......

[John Dee]

You don't go into the Hall of Fame with one team or another they list all the teams you played for that's why the Colts can claim Richard Dent as a Hall of Famer even though he only spent only a little time in Indianapolis at the very end of his career.

Exactly and Manning "made his bones in Indy" many FANTASTIC memories to remember.

He is a Colt always.

[GoColts8818]

ya... his QB was out for the year and JC lost his job. Healthy Manning and YOU, ME, and everyone else is still "doing what we do" Including JC.....

I'm excited about the change......

Agreed Manning going down drastically altered the future of the franchise. Hopefully it proves to be for the better the early results look good.

[John Dee]

Agreed Manning going down drastically altered the future of the franchise. Hopefully it proves to be for the better the early results look good.

Right on... JC had his faults.. I wanted him gone.. but lets face facts. He coached a "injury riddled team" to the SB.

He did it. and if Garcon and lil Kendra had a set of hands he has a SB ring.

I'm glad the change was made but JC got a bad break. I would put more blame on Polian at the end than JC.

But that is the PAST. It's over.....

Go Colts. the NEW INDY COLTS.

[GoColts8818]

Right on... JC had his faults.. I wanted him gone.. but lets face facts. He coached a "injury riddled team" to the SB.

He did it. and if Garcon and lil Kendra had a set of hands he has a SB ring.

I'm glad the change was made but JC got a bad break. I would put more blame on Polian at the end than JC.

But that is the PAST. It's over.....

Go Colts. the NEW INDY COLTS.

Frankly taking the six and six team to 10-6 and the playoffs showed me something because that team was a mess when they were 6-6 including Manning so it's not like Manning just rescued them. Manning was reverting back to what he did early in his career when he felt like he had to be perfect for the team to win and making mistakes. SOMETHING calmed him down and I refuse to believe his head coach and former QB coach didn't play a role in that.

I agree Caldwell was not the best Head Coach in the world but I never thought he was this clueless puppet that people like to make him out to be. Also if he was a puppet (which is how people like to explain anything good that happened under him) then how come everything that went wrong was his fault? After all if he's a puppet then he wouldn't be making the calls for bad things to happen. It's the same double standard some people liked to use with Polian, Polian had nothing to do with anything good that happened but if it was bad it was all his fault.

Frankly both of them deserve some credit for some of the good that happened under them as well as some of the blame for what happened as well. With that said last year wasn't a result of Polian and Caldwell not knowing what they were doing it was a result of the guy they gambled on going down. Had Manning stayed healthy it would have probably been a 10-6 one and done wildcard team and we would be reloading around Peyton. Now i would agree they did not handle things very well once he did go down which is why I think changes were made.

[John Dee]

Frankly taking the six and six team to 10-6 and the playoffs showed me something because that team was a mess when they were 6-6 including Manning so it's not like Manning just rescued them. Manning was reverting back to what he did early in his career when he felt like he had to be perfect for the team to win and making mistakes. SOMETHING calmed him down and I refuse to believe his head coach and former QB coach didn't play a role in that.

I agree Caldwell was not the best Head Coach in the world but I never thought he was this clueless puppet that people like to make him out to be. Also if he was a puppet (which is how people like to explain anything good that happened under him) then how come everything that went wrong was his fault? After all if he's a puppet then he wouldn't be making the calls for bad things to happen. It's the same double standard some people liked to use with Polian, Polian had nothing to do with anything good that happened but if it was bad it was all his fault.

Frankly both of them deserve some credit for some of the good that happened under them as well as some of the blame for what happened as well. With that said last year wasn't a result of Polian and Caldwell not knowing what they were doing it was a result of the guy they gambled on going down. Had Manning stayed healthy it would have probably been a 10-6 one and done wildcard team and we would be reloading around Peyton. Now i would agree they did not handle things very well once he did go down which is why I think changes were made.

THIS KIDS.... IS THE BEST POST OF THE YEAR SO FAR.

IMO... Str8 knowledge....

Great post ..

[John Dee]

And GC your are spot on.. the 10-6 team was the "injury riddled" team I was referring to. And yes, simply a great job of "keeping a team together"....

Which is kinda what he did after the NO and NE boody spankings when I spouted out "the team has quit" ..

BOY was I wrong. The team played hard for Caldwell. And that says a lot.

No Manning and start C Painter will get a lot of NFL coaches the axe.

[Spencer88]

Frankly taking the six and six team to 10-6 and the playoffs showed me something because that team was a mess when they were 6-6 including Manning so it's not like Manning just rescued them. Manning was reverting back to what he did early in his career when he felt like he had to be perfect for the team to win and making mistakes. SOMETHING calmed him down and I refuse to believe his head coach and former QB coach didn't play a role in that.

I agree Caldwell was not the best Head Coach in the world but I never thought he was this clueless puppet that people like to make him out to be. Also if he was a puppet (which is how people like to explain anything good that happened under him) then how come everything that went wrong was his fault? After all if he's a puppet then he wouldn't be making the calls for bad things to happen. It's the same double standard some people liked to use with Polian, Polian had nothing to do with anything good that happened but if it was bad it was all his fault.

Frankly both of them deserve some credit for some of the good that happened under them as well as some of the blame for what happened as well. With that said last year wasn't a result of Polian and Caldwell not knowing what they were doing it was a result of the guy they gambled on going down. Had Manning stayed healthy it would have probably been a 10-6 one and done wildcard team and we would be reloading around Peyton. Now i would agree they did not handle things very well once he did go down which is why I think changes were made.

oook.....and the 2-16 seaon without manning? might be stating the obvious but it definetly was in a very large way mannings doing that we were in the SB, come on...

[Spencer88]

THIS KIDS.... IS THE BEST POST OF THE YEAR SO FAR.

IMO... Str8 knowledge....

Great post ..

really? lol thats hilarious...