Jarvis Jones or David Amerson

[FightLikeSin]

I hate to cut it short, but trying to argue with you on this is just painful. I'll just sit back and watch what the coaches do in the draft and in free agency. If CB has the most impact on the defense, you need to talk to the front office, because they didn't get that memo. While they didn't draft much defense, they got the two most important positions in the draft. NT and OLB (Chapman and Fugger). Now they are bringing in a bunch of scrub CB's for camp. Shows you how important they think the position is.

You go ahead and be worried about getting passed on. I'm going to worry about stopping the pass before it happens and getting after Jones-Drew, Foster and Johnson so we can take our division back. 3-4 defenses live and die by the pass rush.

[NewColtsFan]

I hate to cut it short, but trying to argue with you on this is just painful. I'll just sit back and watch what the coaches do in the draft and in free agency. If CB has the most impact on the defense, you need to talk to the front office, because they didn't get that memo. While they didn't draft much defense, they got the two most important positions in the draft. NT and OLB (Chapman and Fugger). Now they are bringing in a bunch of scrub CB's for camp. Shows you how important they think the position is.

You go ahead and be worried about getting passed on. I'm going to worry about stopping the pass before it happens and getting after Jones-Drew, Foster and Johnson so we can take our division back. 3-4 defenses live and die by the pass rush.

CRH....

I think by now, you know I'm a fan of yours... we like and agree on a variety of issues...

But you offered up a view in this post of yours that had my eyes popping.... the part about "shows you how important they think the position is"

Honestly, I think you missed the mark on that one.

I'd chalk our CB situation up to (A) the Colts held true to their draft board. And (B) with a roster this depleted and wiped-out, you just can't fix all your problems in one off-season/draft, ESPECIALLY with © our terrible cap-space problem. Having nearly $40 Mill of dead cap money doesn't give you a lot of flexibility. And by the way, I don't think taking an OLB in the middle of the 7th round shows the team values the position more than another. (I'm sure they DO value OLB more than another position -- I agree. I just don't think taking someone in the 7th round is proof of that.)

We didn't get the corner we wanted in the draft, despite being close several times. We couldn't afford to buy a decent one due to cap issues. So, we're left with what you called, bringing in the scrubs. Hey, sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.

But I'd expect a pretty serious commitment to bringing in corners next off-season. Wouldn't surprise me to see one in FA and another in the draft.

Philosophically speaking, I **agree** with you... stop the pass at the QB (sack, pressure) before he makes the throw, rather than after and leaving to the corner. I agree. But, you still have to have some good corners, and overall, I think you agree that position is the weakest part of our roster.

Hopefully, a year from today, there's been a sizable turnover in the roster, and the question marks all over have been answered one way or the other. Hopefully, there's been a serious talent upgrade on the roster that we're all comfortable with.

Sorry this went a bit long.... Just my

[FightLikeSin]

CRH....

I think by now, you know I'm a fan of yours... we like and agree on a variety of issues...

But you offered up a view in this post of yours that had my eyes popping.... the part about "shows you how important they think the position is"

Honestly, I think you missed the mark on that one.

I'd chalk our CB situation up to (A) the Colts held true to their draft board. And (B) with a roster this depleted and wiped-out, you just can't fix all your problems in one off-season/draft, ESPECIALLY with © our terrible cap-space problem. Having nearly $40 Mill of dead cap money doesn't give you a lot of flexibility. And by the way, I don't think taking an OLB in the middle of the 7th round shows the team values the position more than another. (I'm sure they DO value OLB more than another position -- I agree. I just don't think taking someone in the 7th round is proof of that.)

We didn't get the corner we wanted in the draft, despite being close several times. We couldn't afford to buy a decent one due to cap issues. So, we're left with what you called, bringing in the scrubs. Hey, sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.

But I'd expect a pretty serious commitment to bringing in corners next off-season. Wouldn't surprise me to see one in FA and another in the draft.

Philosophically speaking, I **agree** with you... stop the pass at the QB (sack, pressure) before he makes the throw, rather than after and leaving to the corner. I agree. But, you still have to have some good corners, and overall, I think you agree that position is the weakest part of our roster.

Hopefully, a year from today, there's been a sizable turnover in the roster, and the question marks all over have been answered one way or the other. Hopefully, there's been a serious talent upgrade on the roster that we're all comfortable with.

Sorry this went a bit long.... Just my

Yeah that's certainly one way to think about it. But it is what it is. There were plenty of CB's available, even ones in the later rounds. I'm sure they did stick to their draft boards which is sort of the point. When you are switching to the 3-4 you gotta take care of the premier positions and CB just isn't one of them. They are picking up cheap players that have been on practice squads...clearly they know they are shallow at CB. But it's not a priority clearly. That's all i'm trying to say. My point is that OLB will ALWAYS take precedent over any secondary position in this scheme if it is sub-par. You cannot run a 3-4 without a good front 7. Simple as that.

[NewColtsFan]

Yeah that's certainly one way to think about it. But it is what it is. There were plenty of CB's available, even ones in the later rounds. I'm sure they did stick to their draft boards which is sort of the point. When you are switching to the 3-4 you gotta take care of the premier positions and CB just isn't one of them. They are picking up cheap players that have been on practice squads...clearly they know they are shallow at CB. But it's not a priority clearly. That's all i'm trying to say. My point is that OLB will ALWAYS take precedent over any secondary position in this scheme if it is sub-par. You cannot run a 3-4 without a good front 7. Simple as that.

Well.... we agree at OLB over CB. I've been saying that since I showed up here. Get a fair amount of push-back the other way.

But we disagree that CB isn't a premier position. In the modern NFL it's a premier position no matter which defense you run, 4-3, or 3-4. Doesn't matter. Is OLB, or a good pass rushing DE ***MORE*** important. Yes. Heck, yes. But that doesn't mean CB isn't a premier position. (not to go on a tangent, but the non-premier position is ILB)

And again, I don't think you've demonstrated that CB is 'not a priority clearly.'

Look... all I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. A rebuild the kind the Colts are doing is going to take time.

Hopefully, a year from now, we can finish this conversation...

[Gavin]

Yeah we disagree but of course thats fine, we both love the Colts and thats the most important thing of course, we arent calling the shots we just have separate opinions, but I will say this, you go ahead and worry about them sacks Jarvis will get 8-10 and if he is as good as Freeney (which is doubtful if we were to be honest BUT could happen) then maybe more and I will worry about those 400 or so other passes where he didn't get to the quarterback because of double teams or a variety of other factors and watch our secondary get burned because our coaching staff thinks that a difference of X number of sacks over 100's and 100's of throws over a season is more important then a shutdown Corner, there is so many ways to avoid a pass rusher whether he is elite or not, and yes there is ways to avoid a #1 shutdown Corner but by doing that said offense that the elite receiver is on is not being utilized he is just out there running routes just ask any elite wide receiver thats gone against Revis, Its undebatable that you need both because one compliments the other but if I had to choose one (which we wont likely have to I dont see why people dont get that) I will choose Corner

[Captain Americolt]

Neither. We won't be in position to draft them. We'll win a few games. I'm guessing around 6-7 games. That should knock us down to the lower first half of the draft. Am I the only one that thinks we need a replacement for Reggie? Would love to get Woods or Allen.

[Gavin]

I definitly agree we need a replacement for reggie but he will be around for 3 more years, Dwight Freeney wont and we need more help at Corner as well, Woods though we pretty much have no shot if we finish with 6-7 wins, He will likely be a top 5 pick or 3 for that matter, Allen we would have a shot at but there will be better players available (Thats if we go best player available), I am actually hoping beyond hope that Mike Wallace becomes a Free Agent next year (Which in all honesty is a slim to none chance even with the contract dispute that he is having in Pitt. We also will in all likelihood need a Right Guard and Right Tackle

[coltsguy510]

Jake Long is available!!! (Fingers Crossed)

[Gavin]

Right now?

[coltsguy510]

No, he's a FA next year.

[NewColtsFan]

No, he's a FA next year.

Miami will put the Franchise Tag on him. I think there is almost no shot they'll let him walk for free.

Hope I'm wrong on this, but don't see why they would...

[Nellyville]

Argument for Jarvis Jones as the #1 pick for us: Jones is an elite pass rusher. He plays the 3-4 linebacker position already and won't need to transition. Underrated coverage linebacker. Explosive, good size, violent hands, and great closing speed. We need a OLB of the future and Jones projects as a top 3 pass rusher in the league.

Argument for David Amerson as the #1 pick for us: Ballhawk. Great cover skills. Very good size for position, which allows him to match up with most receivers. Amazing instincts. Could play safety if needed. Strong athlete. Corner is our greatest need.

Feel free to pitch in.

I can give you a good argument for each player, 1.) if we go after David Amerson we can sign a good OLB in free agency seeing that the colts will have the largest cap room in the NFL next year.2.) if we can move Dwight Freeney mid season like they said they were trying to do and get a CB (Mike Jenkins for Dwight Freeney) that sounds like a good trade and then draft Jarvis Jones and sign maybe Aqib Talib in free agency would be nice

[weslo1812]

Id honestly have to say who ever is available. Now if by some chance we pick early enough where both are available then Id say we look at whats really the bigger need on the team at the time which in my opinion would probably be corner.Having a guy with Amersons capability and talent which equals that od Jones talent in terms or thier respective positons then you go with the most talented player at your biggest position of need which would mean Ammerson. Now I have a steong feeling we will be picking no higher than number 7 which means that there is a very good chance Ammerson will be gone if he has another good year this year and Jones would probably shave a better chance at still being available for us. Now If hughes shows us a good season Fugger looks promising and we have Jones available not Ammerson do we take him still or maybe look at a Keenan Allen or Xavier Rhodes maybe. To me if we decided we were comfortable with our outside linebackers and we did pass up on Jones Id say take Allen if he still there. Rhodes is good but there could still be Carrington Byndom from texas who is solid, Micah Hayde, Johnny Adams and Jordan poyer available in the next two rounds. Corner will be a deep spot next year. We could definatley get a quality guy in the second round. Thats why I would say Allen in this case, Plus he had even if not a little better stats than Woods did and he didnt have the great QB play that woods did so he could be something special. Just a buch of things that we could consider and have to look at but Ill stop with my whole draft anylisis process now . Just gotta wait and see where this season goes.

[funktacious2]

I think Amerson would be the bigger, more immediate upgrade.

[Jason_]

Well.... we agree at OLB over CB. I've been saying that since I showed up here. Get a fair amount of push-back the other way.

But we disagree that CB isn't a premier position. In the modern NFL it's a premier position no matter which defense you run, 4-3, or 3-4. Doesn't matter. Is OLB, or a good pass rushing DE ***MORE*** important. Yes. Heck, yes. But that doesn't mean CB isn't a premier position. (not to go on a tangent, but the non-premier position is ILB)

And again, I don't think you've demonstrated that CB is 'not a priority clearly.'

Look... all I can say is Rome wasn't built in a day. A rebuild the kind the Colts are doing is going to take time.

Hopefully, a year from now, we can finish this conversation...

+

I agree...the first defensive player that I heard anything about during the draft in regards to the Colts wanting him was Casey Heyward. They were set to draft him at the top of the 3rd but Green Bay made the trade with New England and drafted him at the bottom of the 2nd. So had Heyward still been there at the top of the 3rd then I believe we would have him instead of Dwayne Allen. Wasn't it reported that, when GB selected Heyward, didn't Pagano throw his clipboard or something like that? lol

So I agree that the fact that the colts didn't draft a CB at all doesn't mean they devalue the position. It simply means there were players higher on their board when they chose than the next CB on the list and they were going for overall best value.

[IndyColtScout]

I don't think we will be in position to draft either. I don't think this team drafts top 10.

Barrett Jones would be a slam dunk. Could start out at OG then kickout to RT. Heck, he might be able to beat out Justice as a Rookie.

Either way, the goal of the first draft was to surround Luck with talent. The goal of the second draft should be to keep our main investment operational and protected.

[haseo15]

I think Amerson any chance we can get to add a ballhawk to the secondary would be a much welcomed addition. What's the ravens secondary without their ball hawk Ed reed in his prime. Not saying he will be as good as Ed reed but a ball hawk would give luck and the offense more chances to score.

[Diego Rodrigues]

I would really like a Draft with:

1st - David Amerson

2nd - Bjoern Werner

3rd - Nico Johnson