Week 18 Around-the-NFL Game Discussion

[RollerColt]

Since I have been alive on this rock, the Steelers have only had 5 losing seasons. That's it. Their shadow continues to cast over the NFL like a plague. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

That Flores firing is shocking. Wonder if it has to do with the Watson stuff. Maybe the front office wants Watson and Flores didn’t.

 

TUA would fit Reich’s system well if only he would cost a ton of draft picks lol.

 

Wow!!! Flores turned it around for the Dolphins, IMO, too premature firing him. They won 8 out of their last 9 games. He was finally figuring out a formula for that D to win. They finished their season far better than the Colts. Like Vic Fangio, he was a scapegoat. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Wow!!! Flores turned it around for the Dolphins, IMO, too premature firing him. They won 8 out of their last 9 games. He was finally figuring out a formula for that D to win. They finished their season far better than the Colts. Like Vic Fangio, he was a scapegoat. 

Seems like from what I am reading Flores was pushing for Watson. Front office was having none of that and TUA won in the end.

[chad72]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

Seems like from what I am reading Flores was pushing for Watson. Front office was having none of that and TUA won in the end.

 

It depends on how hard Flores pushed. Tua was a big part of their finish and JB proved he was backup material again.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

It depends on how hard Flores pushed. Tua was a big part of their finish and JB proved he was backup material again.

All reports is Flores is why Watson wanted to go to Miami. One of the things about mismi I have heard is they have to be very careful with players they being in because of all the things going on in Miami. A lot like vegas. If Flores was pushing for Watson and the GM was not having it I can see why this happened. GM and coach have to be on the same page.

[chad72]

I can see Fangio going back to Bears to become DC with Jim Harbaugh getting his hands on Justin Fields to run his "run the ball and play D" style. To me, Justin Fields makes the Bears job attractive for a guy like Harbaugh who has apparently 7 teams interested in him.

 

Dan Quinn is rumored to be the next Broncos head coach target.

[Lancer1]

2 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

That Flores firing is shocking. Wonder if it has to do with the Watson stuff. Maybe the front office wants Watson and Flores didn’t.

 

TUA would fit Reich’s system well if only he would cost a ton of draft picks lol.

Yes it is, he did a decent job and nearly made the playoffs both this year & last, despite the cavalcade of quarterbacks he had to deal with in Rosen, Fitzpatrick, Tua & Brissett.

 

They also manage to beat the Patriots every year, and swept them this season!

[Lancer1]

12 hours ago, chad72 said:

Tom Telesco is from the Bill Polian tree, not his style and if the coach is on good terms with the GM, he gets to stick around in the NFL. Jason Garrett is It’s an example of a yes-man, and Marty is an example of a strong headed coach that got fired

When Marty Schottenheimer was fired, Tom Telesco was still in Indy - he wouldn't be hired by the Chargers for another 6 years, when the owner cleaned house by getting rid of HC Norv Turner (his last NFL Head Coaching gig) & GM AJ Smith after the 2012 season, the 1st losing season in the Philip Rivers era with the Bolts.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

@NFLfan hi, sounds like vikings season went out the only way it could always go with Kirk Cousins as QB. I had zero interest in following this season, but enjoyed football around the league.

 

I've not involved in football conversations for a long time now, how are vikings fans in DN feeling, do you know? Are they still in Kirk bandwagon? Sigh. 

 

Is there any indication that GM or HC would be gone? I'd say they'd deserve it thoroughly, just for their worshiping Cousins for so many years now.

 

I'd say any change and new HC setup wouldn't go anywhere than down the drain until Cousins is packed up. It will only buy more time for Cousins to fill up his bank account. Vikings football will not be watchable for me until then. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

@NFLfan lol I just read that both got fired. Good, as their off-season moves were unmotivated ever since they fell into Kirk trap.

 

But if the new GM and HC are going to do their everything to "build team around Cousins to give him best chances", I'm going to LOL, as that would only ruin their careers and keep the Vikings the same old. 

 

I remember Zimmer having fun last time in 2017, and then he just became worse and worse because of not realizing they go nowhere with this QB. Good that Rick is fired too. 

 

To me, their biggest failing is not having a clue in evaluating a QB. And not having guts to draft a QB in first round by trading up, and never developing any QB in their tenure after Teddy injury, opting to go for free agent QBs, yet not grabbing the opportunity when Tom Brady was a free agent - all for their commitment to Kirk Cousins, ha ha ha. 

 

I'm clueless how could one be a great defensive mastermind when you can't see a pretender in a QB like Cousins? So long then. 

[NFLfan]

34 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

I just read that both got fired.

 

Thank you for letting me know. I had not read that yet. I was waiting for my work day to be over so that I can read about it.

 

Unlike most Vikings fans, I am not throwing a virtual party. I am a huge fan of Rick Spielman despite his having brought in Kirk. Bringing Kirk to the Vikings signaled the eventual end of everyone's career there. That is just my opinion, of course.  His contract caused us to give up guys that we normally would have retained.  Despite that, I liked Spielman. I think he did too much to appease Zimmer, drafting so many CBs early in the draft. 

 

Oh well. Let's see who we bring in. We probably will see the loss of a lot of the players that I came to really like (Eric Kendricks, Harrison Smith, Danielle Hunter, and others). I have the same feeling now as when they let go of Denny Green. He had been there 8 years, just like Zimmer had. Both had been given ample time. Still, I don't like starting over.  

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

I'd say any change and new HC setup wouldn't go anywhere than down the drain until Cousins is packed up.

 

For sure. I cannot wait. I think both Zimmer and Spielman realize that this was a big mistake. Yes, Cousins can throw beautiful long TD throws (like those yesterday), but that just is not enough to win championships. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

Yeah, I don't like either of Zimmer or Speilman leaving, but they brought it upon themselves, stood by that and got themselves this fate. 

 

I liked how Speilman navigates through the draft process, it has always been productive, except for their refusal to draft and groom a QB, regardless of who among the two went for such decision. A very good organization without a winning QB can only last for some extent, because by the end of the season it doesn't matter how professional and awesome their management is if they couldn't even get to the playoffs consistently in a weak division. 

 

Now onto the unknown, am really worried like you about losing talent on the defense, and not knowing how the new GM would do this off-season and what they want to do with QB position. I don't even know if Cousins contract is in a position where we could let him go without taking big hit. However, none of that burden could even come close to actually having him on the roster and having to lose or not get quality skill position players, and allocating so much of cap space for him. 

 

Dolphins fired Brian Flores, would be a good option to pursue? He seemed to rally the team very well and build a good roster. They could've retained him and see how a season goes if Tua manages to stay healthy for a full season. 

 

Do you think of any GM or hc suggestions? 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

Nevertheless, I want to focus on getting to know the players up for the draft, and having fun with that. I was not available last off-season, checked the draft results only when the season started and didn't know any of the rookies well. I couldn't participate in Gavin mock draft as well, but this year I want to be prepared in next couple of months. Let me know and tag me please when you start choosing teams for the mock draft in this forum, it's a very enlightening experience to be part of the forum here. 

[NFLfan]

19 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Nevertheless, I want to focus on getting to know the players up for the draft, and having fun with that. I was not available last off-season, checked the draft results only when the season started and didn't know any of the rookies well. I couldn't participate in Gavin mock draft as well, but this year I want to be prepared in next couple of months. Let me know and tag me please when you start choosing teams for the mock draft in this forum, it's a very enlightening experience to be part of the forum here. 

 

This is a good place to learn about the players for the draft. The folks here love the draft. I know no player. I did not follow college football at all this year. I was exchanging messages with my friend who is a Giants season ticket holder. He told me that he is watching Alabama and Georgia in the Championship game. I turned it on for 5 minutes and turned it off. It was 9-6 Alabama in the third quarter.  I told him that I thought Rick would be a great choice to replace their outgoing GM Dave Gettleman. He said anyone would be better. The Giants are not good. 

[NFLfan]

29 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Do you think of any GM or hc suggestions? 

 

Kirk's contract makes it almost impossible to cut or trade him. I think we have to deal with him. I am intrigued by Kevin O'Connell who was Kirk's QB coach and is the Rams OC. The last two coaches from the McVay coaching tree appear to be doing well -- the Bengals head coach and the Chargers head coach. 

 

I would not mind Pederson or Flores. I would prefer an offensive guy, as we have had 10 years of defensive coaches (Frazier and Zimmer).  

 

As for GMs, Ed Dodds from the Colts seems to be the hot GM candidate. He seems to be #1 everywhere.  The Vikes reportedly have an in-house candidate who was promoted when George Paton took the Broncos job. There is someone from the Ravens (Hortiz) that is also a possibility. As for retreads: Rick Smith former GM of the Texans and former Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff have been mentioned. I would prefer the in-house guy for some continuity.  

 

Let's see what happens.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Kirk's contract makes it almost impossible to cut or trade him. I think we have to deal with him. I am intrigued by Kevin O'Connell who was Kirk's QB coach and is the Rams OC. The last two coaches from the McVay coaching tree appear to be doing well -- the Bengals head coach and the Chargers head coach. 

 

I would not mind Pederson or Flores. I would prefer an offensive guy, as we have had 10 years of defensive coaches (Frazier and Zimmer).  

 

As for GMs, Ed Dodds from the Colts seems to be the hot GM candidate. He seems to be #1 everywhere.  The Vikes reportedly have an in-house candidate who was promoted when George Paton took the Broncos job. There is someone from the Ravens (Hortiz) that is also a possibility. As for retreads: Rick Smith former GM of the Texans and former Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff have been mentioned. I would prefer the in-house guy for some continuity.  

 

Let's see what happens.

You have a QB like we do, can't trust him to win a big game. That is just facts. At least Kirk did win at Saints in the 2019 playoffs beating Brees. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Unreal Ben is in the playoffs  . This league cracks me up. I am glad they play KC so they just get demolished by that machine. Pitt fans are saying Ben is a top 10 QB of all-time, that is comical. He is top 20 at best which is still great and a Hall of Famer, but top 10 makes me do this . Mahomes doesn't have the longevity but he is already top 15 of all-time. Eye test would tell anyone that + he has a League MVP and a SB win. Ben never won a League MVP or even a SB MVP for that matter but his 2 SB wins and stats/toughness shows he's a winner. Top 20-25.

[NFLfan]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Unreal Ben is in the playoffs  . This league cracks me up. I am glad they play KC so they just get demolished by that machine. Pitt fans are saying Ben is a top 10 QB of all-time, that is comical. He is top 25 at best which is still great and a Hall of Famer, but top 10 makes me do this . Mahomes doesn't have the longevity but he is already top 15 of all-time. Eye test would tell anyone that + he has a League MVP and a SB win. Ben never won a League MVP or even a SB MVP for that matter but his 2 SB wins and stats/toughness shows he's a winner. Top 25.

 

I don't think Ben is top ten but I like him a lot. I don't value MVP and other such awards. But if it means something, he was offensive ROY.   I think he was better than Eli. He started winning as soon as he got in the league. I do value QB wins. Yes, it is a team sport but QBs have so much to do with wins. The guy rarely had a losing year. I think he is a first ballot HoFer. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I don't think Ben is top ten but I like him a lot. I don't value MVP and other such awards. But if it means something, he was offensive ROY.   I think he was better than Eli. He started winning as soon as he got in the league. I do value QB wins. Yes, it is a team sport but QBs have so much to do with wins. The guy rarely had a losing year. I think he is a first ballot HoFer. 

He was better than Eli but top 10 no way. Top 20-25. Yes he is a Hall of Famer.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

49 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You have a QB like we do, can't trust him to win a big game. That is just facts. At least Kirk did win at Saints in the 2019 playoffs beating Brees. 

I used to say this here about kirk, but few people here said he was good enough. Yes, the reality is QBs like him, Carson are just also-runs, they can play few games lights out and look promising, but in the end if your goal is winning multiple playoffs or SBs you better find someone with intangibles for putting up a fight every game. QBs who aren't Mentally strong do not take the franchise anywhere. 

 

I liked Wentz the rookie year, I think he never developed after that ACL injury, and his mechanics went awry and his ability to go through progressions and take better decisions never developed beyond how he entered nfl. Someone in another thread here said Wentz isn't good when he's not able to be mobile. I think that's a good description, Wentz needs to be allowed to be lot more mobile and make decisions on the flow and he would do better if the offense is designed that way and if his health cooperates. 

 

Long term, Colts need to draft a QB, and need to kick start the process soon or after managing one more year with Wentz. Good luck. 

[shakedownstreet]