CR91 First Quarter Report Card

[Nickster]

48 minutes ago, DougDew said:

And who is that very good but underrated RB he had the past few years?  Didn't Rivers also play with Tomlinson when SD was a perennial playoff team?

Tomlinsons best days were behind him when Rivers started starting for the Bolts.  Are you talking about Ekelar?  Gordon?  Rivers made his living through the air.  

 

I looked it up.  With the exceptions of 06 and 07, the Chargers have been a bottom half and usually bottom 3rd or worse in rushing yards.  It's been a long time since Rivers had a top type of rushing attack.  

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I see what you are saying.  But he does have the 8th most carries in the league and only played half the game against Jax.    He got 9 carries v. Jax.  If you doubled that usage that game it would bring his total carries to 5th in the league in carries.  So maybe he should "get more," but that doesn't change that he's gotten alot.

 

I think we need to trade for someone if we are serious about the season.  In addtion to what we have, we need a creative type of RB for the zone scheme that sets up the play action passing game that everyone is clamouring for.  We need a real threat between the tackle and the boundry so that we can freeze LBs for a long period of time on the long fake handoff.  Right now we definitely do not have a player active right now that has shown that he can do that.

 

Man I mean it's possible I guess that our line suddenly sucks as a run blocking unit, but that sure doesn't seem likely to me.  I think the problem lies elsewhere.  

 

I think JT is a good RB.

 

In the context of the OP, through the first 4 games, it apparent that we don't have a player that we would think could score a TD from the 50 yard line.  (Either because of injury, rookie development, decline, or possibly roster; take your pick as to the reason) 

 

And many have commented about the wrong RB being on the field in the red zone.

 

If Rivers doesn't like his 50/50 pass catching options when he throws, he may just dial it back and look more like JB.  It doesn't do much good to look at film and say this receiver was open or that other one was.  Rivers may not think they would be open, or that the receiver would not do much with it if he got it.  No reason to feed anybody the ball, like he did with Keenan Allen or Antonio Gates.  The lack of talent impacts a lot of intangible things that can't be measured by tape and stats.

 

 

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Tomlinsons best days were behind him when Rivers started starting for the Bolts.  Are you talking about Ekelar?  Gordon?  Rivers made his living through the air.  

 

I looked it up.  With the exceptions of 06 and 07, the Chargers have been a bottom half and usually bottom 3rd or worse in rushing yards.  It's been a long time since Rivers had a top type of rushing attack.  

Yeah, Ekelar.  I'm not going down the rabbit hole of comparing SD's performance the last few years with our first quarter performance.  Too many different things.  O line may be a big difference.

 

I think Ekelar has versatility that we have not put on the field so far.  We have had that versatility, but its spread over two players.  Mack for running and Hines for catching, and that makes it easier for the defense to key.  I expect that JT will combine that versatility into one player at some point, providing us with a running option and a catching option in one player.  And we'll see a difference in the entire O, IMO.

  

[Zoltan]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:53 PM, danlhart87 said:

I would even be ok with 1st for Julio 

Julio is older than TY, hurt and didn’t play this last week, why trade for an old hurt WR. We don’t need another Andre Johnson. I wouldn’t give a 3rd for him

[Zoltan]

As for RB I think our committee approach is hurting us, last game was a perfect example. Whenever JT got in, and made a good run he would be taken out and Hines/Wilkins would run the ball for 1 yard. We need to make Taylor the feature back, so he has the opportunity to break a run loose. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Yeah, I share your concern on balance issues. Sirianni gave an interview yesterday where he discussed how unpredictable they want to be - that they are obsessed with it. I wonder if they are overthinking this to the point of being predictably unpredictable, if you know what I mean. Actually creating a bone-headed game plan in order to be less predictable. "Gee, if the Bears have a great run D, then they'll never expect us to run 57% of the time...yeah, let's do that!"

 

Here's what he said:

 

"That is something that is constantly on our minds," Sirianni said. "We know how we look at defenses and we know how our defense looks at other teams. We don't want to tip our hand in any way. In any sport, you don't want to let the person trying to defend you any little tell. We're really obsessed with that."

Sirianni said offensive quality control coach Parks Frazier has been tasked with evaluating the Colts' offensive play calls on a weekly basis and then, usually on Tuesdays, reporting his findings back to the staff.

"Parks Frazier does a phenomenal job of giving us our tendencies when we start the week," Sirianni said. "As a matter of fact, that's the meeting I'm about to go to after we talk right here, just talking through tendencies and how we cover tendencies. A huge part of what we do, a huge thought of what we do – just as much as we think about plays and players for our team and their team, we think about our tendencies and how we can break any tendency we have that can tip our hand."

https://www.colts.com/news/jonathan-taylor-nick-sirianni-cleveland-browns-2020-week-5

Good post. Thanks, hadn't read that.

 

As far as "break any tendency we have", I hope they break the predictable tendencies they've had thus far lol. They have some bad ones, and I agree, I think they've been too cute. I'm kind of calling nonsense though lol. It was just stupid to open the Covid season tossing it all over the yard against a bad run D. There was no tendency to break at that point. The last three games they just reverted to ball control with the lead, but still the mix was poor and plays had predictable tendency. And to try to pound the rock vs CHI and NYJ, two teams with historically good run Ds was a bit frustrating. I understand it though with the lead, but at least in the CHI game, it wasn't a big lead.

 

I'm going to post some 1Q stats later tonight for both O and D, and while digging, one thing that surprised me was how good MN is in RZ and 3rd down D, while being poor everywhere else lol.

 

 

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The scheme has done a very good job as well w.r.t scheming guys open, let us not discount that. However, talent wins by the red zone, IMO.

 

Sooner than later, teams like the Browns are going to just do 1-on-1 with TY with a guy like Ward and we will have to find ways to score more TDs through the air. We are bottom 25% in the league in TDs overall and by Quarter 2, I would like us to be the middle of the pack for improvement. 

They will continue to double TY until we stop forcing it his way and start calling 1st reads to others on a more consistent basis IMO. The best separation guys we have right now are Mo and Doyle funny enough. Those intermediate sail routes that Moe was running two games ago were incredibly successful in getting him open, and Rivers was hitting them with great accuracy. Not sure what happened to that vs Chicago.

 

As far as scoring TDs through the air, I chalk that up to play mix. Aside from the 50/50 attempt to Mo last week, hated the play calling in the RZ for the most part. People were talking bad about that 50/50 shot, but it's the exact play you want in that situation. It was just a poorly timed jump by Mo. That's a TD 90% of the time if he does what he's supposed to do. Give me some quick outs from Hines, or slants from a wide formation. 

[Scott Pennock]

A few things to echo or expand on, and some of my own thoughts:

 

T.Y. is no longer a stretch the field WR. We need him to run out of the slot and use his savvy to find the soft spots in zone defense.

 

That being said, we need a legit stretch the field WR. Pittman is not that type, he is a big possession receiver that will move the chains. On the current roster Fountain 'could' be that guy or maybe even Patmon (since he was taking the of off of our defense routinely in TC) against the Number 1 defense in the league currently.  Otherwise, use some draft capitol on that type in 2021.

 

Taylor is not running with vision yet, he is too quick into the hole and has ran up the back of our Oline multiple times. This is easily correctable as Mack had the same issue his 2nd year (his first year he tended to bounce outside every time). Last year mack showed patience and followed his blockers then burst through the line. Once Taylor learns this THEN you will see the explosive plays from him.

 

I have yet to see a linebacker blitz and I don't recall seeing too many corner blitzes from Moore yet either as the front 4 is getting it done without assistance so far. As the season goes on those wrinkles will likely be added just so we don't look too vanilla.

 

The TE trio of Cox, Burton and Doyle can be lethal if deployed correctly mixing and matching their particular strengths. Doyle is consistent in the middle curl for a first down down the seams.......Ali-Cox can stretch the field, box out and out jump damn near anyone and Burton runs crisp routes to get separation and YAC. Put them in 3 man formation and let them run their routes, flood the zone with a back out of the backfield and I guarantee 2 of the 4 will be wide open!

 

I always loved Hooker as a FS as outside of a few times in his first 3 years there was very little that went over his head - by his own play, his reputation or the QB's lack of attempt. Blackmon is actually more of the type of CFer that the front office thought they were getting with Hooker. Blackmon, for a rookie, takes pretty sound angles, squares up those who he intends to hit, reacts well to the ball in the air and just seems to play with his hair on fire! I'm sure his aggression will cost us from time to time, but, as Hooker looked timid at times Blackmon will make up for it with fumbles, interceptions and PBU's.

 

I am excited to see the rush defense when Turay returns and to see what the saw in this new pass rusher Ron'Dell Carter to add him directly to the roster (when they did not have too)! I'm sure that Robert Mathis's recommendation loomed large in the decision as a former student and all.

 

Lastly, the offense looks more diverse when BOTH Hines and Taylor/Wilkins is in the backfield. They are getting too cute with the running of Hines too much. Taylor should get 15-20 carries, Wilkins 5-10 and Hines around 5 but then that gives the dump off to Hines the advantage of happening when they've stacked the box to stop the run.....He can then use his vision and open field running to his advantage instead of pounding him between the tackles (dumb)!

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

A few things to echo or expand on, and some of my own thoughts:

 

T.Y. is no longer a stretch the field WR. We need him to run out of the slot and use his savvy to find the soft spots in zone defense.

I agree in spirit, but he did dust that DB when he dropped the pass. He may not be 4.3s anymore, but he's still 4.4s and can go deep. We're just not running a lot of vert routes with play calls intended to go deep. Most of the vert routes we're running are either the slot going deep to clear out for the outside WR dig or drag. Or the outside WR running deep to clear out for an inside TE or WR to do a sail.

 

In short, we have guys that run verts. Any of our 4.4s guys can do that so long as they can get a clean release. We just don't call plays that often with the intent of going deep. Give me a 4 vert route with TY, Hines, Dulin, and Fountain keeping a TE in to help hold the pass rush, and we'll get guys behind the D. Or even a 3 vert with a dig by a detached TE to hold some of the DBs.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

That being said, we need a legit stretch the field WR. Pittman is not that type, he is a big possession receiver that will move the chains. On the current roster Fountain 'could' be that guy or maybe even Patmon (since he was taking the of off of our defense routinely in TC) against the Number 1 defense in the league currently.  Otherwise, use some draft capitol on that type in 2021.

Pittman hauled in a decent amount of deep balls in college. A lot of WRs that are "bigs" and low to mid 4.5s do in the NFL. Just requires a WR that is good at contested balls and 50/50 type throws. Pittman is that kind of guy. He's not going to blow the top off of a D, but he is a huge mismatch problem if singled by a DB.

 

Patmon is a tiny bit faster than Pittman, but the dig on him was he doesn't play to his size (in terms of contested catches). He was getting behind our DBs in camp though, so perhaps his low 4.5s is enough. I think he'd be fantastic though on intermediate to longish sail routes, or even digs if he can sharpen up his routes. If he, or Pittman for that matters, are one of multiple vert routes, I would have zero problem with tossing it to him if the match up is right. 

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Taylor is not running with vision yet, he is too quick into the hole and has ran up the back of our Oline multiple times. This is easily correctable as Mack had the same issue his 2nd year (his first year he tended to bounce outside every time). Last year mack showed patience and followed his blockers then burst through the line. Once Taylor learns this THEN you will see the explosive plays from him.

I agree. IMO he's thinking to much, which is understandable, and common for rooks. That said, I think some of the running into the backs of OL were on power/man runs, which is designed for him to hit a predetermined hole. Hines has run several power/man runs too, which I think is just silly, but that's another topic. Back to JT, he just needs some time. He's been pretty darn good catching the ball, which is what I was most worried about (aside from fumbles which he has none).

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I have yet to see a linebacker blitz and I don't recall seeing too many corner blitzes from Moore yet either as the front 4 is getting it done without assistance so far. As the season goes on those wrinkles will likely be added just so we don't look too vanilla.

We are indeed the 2nd least blitzing team in the NFL, but we have blitzed the LBs. Walker has blitzed 7 times with a QBKD, Oke has blitzed 6 times (no pressures), and Leonard has blitzed 5 times (no pressures). On top of that, we've had 7 DB blitzes accounting for 3 pressures.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

The TE trio of Cox, Burton and Doyle can be lethal if deployed correctly mixing and matching their particular strengths. Doyle is consistent in the middle curl for a first down down the seams.......Ali-Cox can stretch the field, box out and out jump damn near anyone and Burton runs crisp routes to get separation and YAC. Put them in 3 man formation and let them run their routes, flood the zone with a back out of the backfield and I guarantee 2 of the 4 will be wide open!

I agree here for the most part. They're using Burton more like a bully slot though. Still not sold on him. Mo goofed up that 50/50 shot Sunday, but I'm sure he'll learn, and it'll be a TD next time. He's getting great separation almost everywhere, and still wondering what happen to the sail routes from 2 weeks ago. Doyle also has historically good separation and is about as steady as they come. I'm very happy with just Mo and Doyle. If Burton contributes, just icing on top.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I always loved Hooker as a FS as outside of a few times in his first 3 years there was very little that went over his head - by his own play, his reputation or the QB's lack of attempt. Blackmon is actually more of the type of CFer that the front office thought they were getting with Hooker. Blackmon, for a rookie, takes pretty sound angles, squares up those who he intends to hit, reacts well to the ball in the air and just seems to play with his hair on fire! I'm sure his aggression will cost us from time to time, but, as Hooker looked timid at times Blackmon will make up for it with fumbles, interceptions and PBU's.

Nah. We played mostly cover 2 with Hooker, so he never really got a chance to be a CFer like he was in college. We have started playing a match rip/liz coverage this year (a little late last year), which has allowed Blackmon to play a true CFer. Purely my opinion, but Hooker didn't fit our scheme the last few years, and now that we've changed scheme to fit him, he's hurt. Oh well. 

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

 

I am excited to see the rush defense when Turay returns and to see what the saw in this new pass rusher Ron'Dell Carter to add him directly to the roster (when they did not have too)! I'm sure that Robert Mathis's recommendation loomed large in the decision as a former student and all.

My fear is they picked up Carter because they may not be confident in Turay's return (plus perhaps Banogu's contribution hasn't been much). Hope that's not the case. I'd love to see Carter contribute this year, but he's very very raw. I'm sure Mathis has helped, and if he does contribute this early, mad props to Mathis. 

2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Lastly, the offense looks more diverse when BOTH Hines and Taylor/Wilkins is in the backfield. They are getting too cute with the running of Hines too much. Taylor should get 15-20 carries, Wilkins 5-10 and Hines around 5 but then that gives the dump off to Hines the advantage of happening when they've stacked the box to stop the run.....He can then use his vision and open field running to his advantage instead of pounding him between the tackles (dumb)!

Agree on the carries, but I Hines should get more snaps than Wilkins. And I love the though of having Hines in with one of the others. I really wish they'd simply line Hines up in slot as well a few times per game.

[compuls1v3]

On 10/5/2020 at 9:50 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

We.....have........no ...talent at the wr position. One of the guys is going to have to ball our such as a Fountain or Dulin. Until then, defences are going to sell out attacking the O line and stopping the run. They had to contend with the same problem last year

I'm really hoping for Fountain to shine.   I've been pulling for him like I was for that receiver that ended up a bust that went to the Steelers.

[danlhart87]

47 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I'm really hoping for Fountain to shine.   I've been pulling for him like I was for that receiver that ended up a bust that went to the Steelers.

Moncrief?

[compuls1v3]

53 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Moncrief?

Yeah, thats the one.