Casserly Mock 2.0.... Better....

[AZColt11]

18 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

You may be right

 

And thats a reason why you DONT draft Nelson at 6

 

I think we would all agree that LT is crucial in an OL, a Guard is important, but , but not as important as a LT

 

With having Joe Thomas at LT, Cleveland was still horrible, for his whole career...... Cleveland lost, and lost, and lost

 

Every play, he owned his man..........  And it didnt change the outcome of the game

 

We desperately need better guard play.......  Those guys are available in late 1, round 2 and possibly 3.  Maybe not HOF, but people that can "own" the guy in front of them.  A guy blocked is a guy blocked.

 

To me, I want someone at 6 that can turn a game around.      Thats a QB, or a star Defensive player

 

To me Trumaine Edwards is that player, at that spot

 

My 2 cents

 

 

 

Cleveland's inability to find a starting worthy QB has had FAR greater impact on their misfortunes than drafting Joe Thomas ever did.  And they have had chance after chance and still they haven't gotten it right.  Will this be the year?

[MikeCurtis]

8 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

Cleveland's inability to find a starting worthy QB has had FAR greater impact on their misfortunes than drafting Joe Thomas ever did.  And they have had chance after chance and still they haven't gotten it right.  Will this be the year?

Absolutly agree with that statement.

 

My point is being a difference maker.......  The differnce between Wynn (or Price) and Nelson isnt that large

 

The QBs avaialable at the start of round one and the start of round 2 are usually night and day in level of "difference making" especially the first year.

 

Wynn and Price can do what we need from a Guard. SOOOOOO much better than what we have had

 

They both effectively push the DL out of the hole for the RB, they both RARELY give up sacks.........  Nelson does it a little better.     Is that differnce worth what ELSE you could get for the pick?  To me it doesnt

[krunk]

21 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

We've already got Castanzo and Kelly who are firsts plus Mewhort is a second (you could even stretch and say Clark is a third).

 

I agree that you need a couple of blue chip players but we should already have those. We should be able to fill around them like all good teams do.

 

If there's ever been a successful team who have twice the number of first round picks on their interior line than they do on their whole defense then I'd like to see them. Has it ever happened?

Id be dissapointed with selecting Nelson at #6 for like 5 minutes if we did it LOL! I ain't gon lie I like everything that kid brings to the table.   But I will say I don't think Will Hernandez is that far off from Nelson.   Other very good options include Connor Wiliams, Isaiah Wynn, Braden Smith. Billy Price etc.  If we miss out on Nelson there's a pretty decent chance there will still be very good replacement options.  I can't control who the team decides to pick, but I will say there's not a problem with scarcity at the guard position in this draft.   I think once you get outside the first round unless somebody drops into round #2 the options are less available at the LB position in terms of very good talent.

[HectorRoberts]

I’ve Been all in on Nelson since the start but Edmonds has quickly become my favorite player in the draft

[Dark Superman]

Chubb is the only guy I would consider at 6 before Nelson.

[Jdubu]

On 4/5/2018 at 12:36 AM, Defjamz26 said:

I feel the same way about Chubb. He’s be a great pickup but if you pass on him or he gets picked before us, it’s not like you’re missing out on JJ Watt. The real can’t miss talents in this draft are Barkley and Edmunds. Possibly James as well. 

I don’t think this is accurate according to any of the reports I’ve seen on Edmunds. He is not considered a cant miss guy, he is considered a guy who has a huge ceiling and has all those measurables you want but TJ Green had all this evening measurables and he’s been stuck in confusion. I’m not going to say that Nelson needs to be our pick but he checks off on the pass game and the run game and in a dominant fashion and is considered a can’t miss guy. If we take Edmunds or Smith, I’m fine with that too a small it will give us high ceiling talent at another position we need. In fact, if we don’t take Nelson at 6 and there is another QB on the board, I’d hope we look ron trade down again and isn’t love to get another 2nd this year and a 1st next since we really are still rebuilding but I would t trade down if I couldn’t get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next, just isn’t enough for me to trade for the future 2nd to miss out on Nelson, Edmunds, Smith or another top 10 pick guy. 

 

The good news is, we have options and there are some great choices. I don’t see anyone we fans are wanting as bad choices. I’ve seen no reports we are looking at a TE or the top wr as a pick 

[MikeCurtis]

An added note

 

According to PFF 

 

Price gave up 2 QB hits and one sack........ FOR ALL all of  2017 

 

Nelson is amazing ging up no hits, and no sacks in ALL of 2017

 

Wynn has given up 4 total sacks in 3 years of starting

 

Will Hernandez according to another source, gave up No hits, and No sacks in 2017

 

 

All 3 are amazing

 

Nelson is "better" than the other 2

 

But.....

 

Price for the most part, ALMOST never, gives up a sack or a hit

He is an amazing roadgrader as well...... he pushes the pile

 

Wynn, for the most part, ALMOST never gives up a sack or a hit

He is an amazing roadgrader as well..... he pushes the pile

 

Will H, for h most part ALMOST never gives up a sack, or a hit . 

He is an amazing roadgrader as well....... he pushes the pile

 

Nelson does better....... (How much better COULD a guard be???).

 

Is that differnce worth using it on pick number 6?

 

The 3 "other Guards" can be had at late first to mid to early second round

 

 

I fully predict that you will see Nelson slide a bit, maybe to 10-15 spot

 

My 2 cents ......  BUT

 

Please dont draft Nelson at 6..........  Fine at 22, Possibly at 12

 

Give me a game changer ..... a guard just isnt it

 

Deano

 

 

 

[Coltivated]

OK so here's how I look at all this talk about positional value when it comes to guards. At the combine the measurables suggest he could play tackle in the NFl. IMO he has a solid chance to be an all pro guard. But atthe same time if needed had a decent chance at being a potential pro bowl right tackle. 

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, Jdubu said:

I don’t think this is accurate according to any of the reports I’ve seen on Edmunds. He is not considered a cant miss guy, he is considered a guy who has a huge ceiling and has all those measurables you want but TJ Green had all this evening measurables and he’s been stuck in confusion. I’m not going to say that Nelson needs to be our pick but he checks off on the pass game and the run game and in a dominant fashion and is considered a can’t miss guy. If we take Edmunds or Smith, I’m fine with that too a small it will give us high ceiling talent at another position we need. In fact, if we don’t take Nelson at 6 and there is another QB on the board, I’d hope we look ron trade down again and isn’t love to get another 2nd this year and a 1st next since we really are still rebuilding but I would t trade down if I couldn’t get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next, just isn’t enough for me to trade for the future 2nd to miss out on Nelson, Edmunds, Smith or another top 10 pick guy. 

 

The good news is, we have options and there are some great choices. I don’t see anyone we fans are wanting as bad choices. I’ve seen no reports we are looking at a TE or the top wr as a pick 

I can see what you’re getting at. That there are a lot of high ceiling guys with tremendous physical traits, but don’t put it all together on the field. But the difference between Edmunds and someone like Green is production and technique. You’re talking about a guy with 213 career tackles, 33 TFLs, 1 INT, 10 sacks, 6 PD, and 3 FF. And listen to his draft write up by Jeremiah:

 

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

 

 

Hes young so of course he’s a little raw, but he has a very good floor. Green had virtually no floor. He was big and fast, and that’s about it. But Edmunds has the frame of Urlacher (who he usually gets compared too) and the speed of Luke Keuchly. Plus good instincts against the run and can play in coverage. That’s rare. And like I said, it shows on tape and on the stat sheet. He has all pro potential. He is as can’t miss as you can get. He’s Malik Hooker is he played LB. 

[krunk]

I like Edmunds and Roquan Smith.  Edmunds is my personal favorite if you ask me to choose between the two.   I don't see much about Edmunds that couldn't be tightened up and improved if you want to focus on his weak points.  And I don't think it would take much time to get them hammered out.

[#7ForDays]

On 04/04/2018 at 8:17 AM, MikeCurtis said:

You may be right

 

And thats a reason why you DONT draft Nelson at 6

 

I think we would all agree that LT is crucial in an OL, a Guard is important, but , but not as important as a LT

 

With having Joe Thomas at LT, Cleveland was still horrible, for his whole career...... Cleveland lost, and lost, and lost

 

Every play, he owned his man..........  And it didnt change the outcome of the game

 

We desperately need better guard play.......  Those guys are available in late 1, round 2 and possibly 3.  Maybe not HOF, but people that can "own" the guy in front of them.  A guy blocked is a guy blocked.

 

To me, I want someone at 6 that can turn a game around.      Thats a QB, or a star Defensive player

 

To me Trumaine Edwards is that player, at that spot

 

My 2 cents

 

 

 

I'm certain that Cleveland's failures are typically attributes to their inability to draft a NFL-calibre quarterback (or their inability to develop one), not Joe Thomas...

 

Luckily (not pun intended), we don't have the same problem.

 

If you can draft a player who you view as a HOF lock, you do it. Period. No ifs and or buts, you just do it.

[#7ForDays]

8 hours ago, Jdubu said:

I don’t think this is accurate according to any of the reports I’ve seen on Edmunds. He is not considered a cant miss guy, he is considered a guy who has a huge ceiling and has all those measurables you want but TJ Green had all this evening measurables and he’s been stuck in confusion. I’m not going to say that Nelson needs to be our pick but he checks off on the pass game and the run game and in a dominant fashion and is considered a can’t miss guy. If we take Edmunds or Smith, I’m fine with that too a small it will give us high ceiling talent at another position we need. In fact, if we don’t take Nelson at 6 and there is another QB on the board, I’d hope we look ron trade down again and isn’t love to get another 2nd this year and a 1st next since we really are still rebuilding but I would t trade down if I couldn’t get their 1st and 2nd this year and their 1st next, just isn’t enough for me to trade for the future 2nd to miss out on Nelson, Edmunds, Smith or another top 10 pick guy. 

 

The good news is, we have options and there are some great choices. I don’t see anyone we fans are wanting as bad choices. I’ve seen no reports we are looking at a TE or the top wr as a pick 

Can't really compare Edmunds with green, now can we?

 

Pretty simple: Green was viewed as an athlete without a position. Edmunds is viewed as an unpolished LB. One of them had to switch positions in college, the other played his at an elite level without even really knowing what he was doing (allegedly, but coaches are known to be flatterers).

 

There is a reason why drafting Green in the second was seen as a huge reach.

 

There is a reason why Edmunds is ranked and viewed higher than the Butkus Award winner, Smith.

[#7ForDays]

7 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

An added note

 

According to PFF 

 

Price gave up 2 QB hits and one sack........ FOR ALL all of  2017 

 

Nelson is amazing ging up no hits, and no sacks in ALL of 2017

 

Wynn has given up 4 total sacks in 3 years of starting

 

Will Hernandez according to another source, gave up No hits, and No sacks in 2017

 

 

All 3 are amazing

 

Nelson is "better" than the other 2

 

But.....

 

Price for the most part, ALMOST never, gives up a sack or a hit

He is an amazing roadgrader as well...... he pushes the pile

 

Wynn, for the most part, ALMOST never gives up a sack or a hit

He is an amazing roadgrader as well..... he pushes the pile

 

Will H, for h most part ALMOST never gives up a sack, or a hit . 

He is an amazing roadgrader as well....... he pushes the pile

 

Nelson does better....... (How much better COULD a guard be???).

 

Is that differnce worth using it on pick number 6?

 

The 3 "other Guards" can be had at late first to mid to early second round

 

 

I fully predict that you will see Nelson slide a bit, maybe to 10-15 spot

 

My 2 cents ......  BUT

 

Please dont draft Nelson at 6..........  Fine at 22, Possibly at 12

 

Give me a game changer ..... a guard just isnt it

 

Deano

 

 

 

Wynn and Hernandez played softball compared to the talent Nelson went toe-to-toe with. Wynn and Hernandez are great looking guards, don't get me wrong. But Nelson is in a league of his own. 

 

Not many guards in college are thought to have the ability to played Tackle at an NFL level...Nelson does.

 

Not many guards can go up against interior lineman like Harrison Philips and stonewall them...Nelson did.

 

Nelson may not be the Colts #6 pick in this draft, but it's won't be because he isn't talented enough or doesn't play a premium position. Generational talent is like the hot girl that liked you in HS but you didn't have the courage to ask her out...a missed opportunity, the one you kick yourself about for the rest of your life, the one that got away.

[MikeCurtis]

22 minutes ago, #7ForDays said:

I'm certain that Cleveland's failures are typically attributes to their inability to draft a NFL-calibre quarterback (or their inability to develop one), not Joe Thomas...

 

Luckily (not pun intended), we don't have the same problem.

 

If you can draft a player who you view as a HOF lock, you do it. Period. No ifs and or buts, you just do it.

Its WAY to early to call Nelson a HOF lock....... WAY too early

 

Im not saying the guy inst great.

 

If you read the words.....  IMHO, we can get a REALLY good guard in late Q1 or Q2

 

A guard that will improve the team and help us to run the ball.... WHILE we pick up a possible game changer at 6

[MikeCurtis]

9 minutes ago, #7ForDays said:

Wynn and Hernandez played softball compared to the talent Nelson went toe-to-toe with. Wynn and Hernandez are great looking guards, don't get me wrong. But Nelson is in a league of his own. 

 

Not many guards in college are thought to have the ability to played Tackle at an NFL level...Nelson does.

 

Not many guards can go up against interior lineman like Harrison Philips and stonewall them...Nelson did.

 

Nelson may not be the Colts #6 pick in this draft, but it's won't be because he isn't talented enough or doesn't play a premium position. Generational talent is like the hot girl that liked you in HS but you didn't have the courage to ask her out...a missed opportunity, the one you kick yourself about for the rest of your life, the one that got away.

Yeah.... Wynn who played for Georgia in the SEC... had "softball"    

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

You like your picks... I like mine

 

Its all good

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 4/4/2018 at 4:13 PM, MikeCurtis said:

I dont argue the point that we need an impoved line

 

If we were one player away on this team to going to SB, and G was it, we would be on the same page

 

But:

The Cowboys didnt grab a guard in the first round in any of the last drafts

 

They drafted a Left Tackle 9th - 2011

They drafted a Right Tackle 16th - 2013

They drafted a center 31st - 2014

 

A GREAT LT prospect should go in top 10

 

If we somehow traded with Buffalo and got the 22nd pick, and somehow Nelson is there...... he is my pick

 

I dont see it though

 

 

Come on now....    Martin may have played tackle in college,  but no on viewed him as a tackle in the NFL.    The arms were too short.    

 

He was drafted to be a guard in 2013, and that's what he's played.    Your comment about him being a RT is completely misleading.

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, #7ForDays said:

Wynn and Hernandez played softball compared to the talent Nelson went toe-to-toe with. Wynn and Hernandez are great looking guards, don't get me wrong. But Nelson is in a league of his own. 

 

Not many guards in college are thought to have the ability to played Tackle at an NFL level...Nelson does.

 

Not many guards can go up against interior lineman like Harrison Philips and stonewall them...Nelson did.

 

Nelson may not be the Colts #6 pick in this draft, but it's won't be because he isn't talented enough or doesn't play a premium position. Generational talent is like the hot girl that liked you in HS but you didn't have the courage to ask her out...a missed opportunity, the one you kick yourself about for the rest of your life, the one that got away.

 

Except that Nelson DIDN'T stone Phillips

 

Here are the numbers....

 

Here are Phillips' lines from the 2017 game vs. ND...   and the 2016 game vs. ND

 

• Seven tackles (three solo), 2.0 sacks, 3.0 tackles for loss vs. Notre Dame    (2017)

 

• Four tackles and one sack at Notre Dame     (2016)

 

Those come right from the Stanford website who list the game by game performance lines.    There isn't one for 2015 as Harrison didn't play due to a knee injury.

 

[#7ForDays]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Except that Nelson DIDN'T stone Phillips

 

Here are the numbers....

 

Here are Phillips' lines from the 2017 game vs. ND...   and the 2016 game vs. ND

 

• Seven tackles (three solo), 2.0 sacks, 3.0 tackles for loss vs. Notre Dame    (2017)

 

• Four tackles and one sack at Notre Dame     (2016)

 

Those come right from the Stanford website who list the game by game performance lines.    There isn't one for 2015 as Harrison didn't play due to a knee injury.

 

Watch the game tapes my friend.

 

All of the sacks were cleanup sacks and were against the right side of the ND oline.

 

On every 1v1 against Nelson, either Phillips was stymied or it was a tie, which says just as much about Phillips potential as an interior disruptor as it does about Nelson.

 

I like Phillips and the Cardinal, but Phillips' best football was played against olines no featuring QN.

 

 

[#7ForDays]

13 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Yeah.... Wynn who played for Georgia in the SEC... had "softball"    

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

You like your picks... I like mine

 

Its all good

 

The softball comment was more for Senor Hernandez than it was against Wynn.

 

Comment wasn't clear on that, that's on me.

[MikeCurtis]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Come on now....    Martin may have played tackle in college,  but no on viewed him as a tackle in the NFL.    The arms were too short.    

 

He was drafted to be a guard in 2013, and that's what he's played.    Your comment about him being a RT is completely misleading.

 

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea where anyone plays on the Cowboys line.  Living in Dallas, I probably should know that. I pulled these from the draft guides. 

 

Thanks for the catch.... I stand corrected

 

 

But......... i still dont want a guard at 6 

 

[rockywoj]

As much as I DO like Nelson, one must keep the hype train in check.  My memory is long and I remember the same hype about Tony Mandarich.  There has been others, too.

 

No matter who we pick, though, they ARE still just a rookie.  A fact people will need to keep in mind before declaring a guy a draft bust half way through the season.