I Just Feel Like What I Think Needs To Be Heard.

[Fx Stryker]

I am a huge Manning fan, but a bigger Colts. So hear me out. I was born in '92 so I did not have to endure the bottom years most fans did. I have faint memories of Jim Harbaugh, but more vivid memories I have of those times is Tony Siragusa. I use to cheer for "the Goose." When I got older Peyton came to Indy, and I started to understand the game more. Peyton was my biggest hero, I use to mimic him in my backyard. I know every aspect of the game because of Peyton. There is no way that I believe one player is above a team though, even if it is Manning. I had to watch Sosa leave the Cubs.

We all know the 2012-13 season is a rebuilding year. I can probably say 100 percent guarantee no one believes the #1 pick, either it be Andrew Luck, RG3, or any other QB we see fit, will lead us to a Super Bowl next year. So the only chance of a Super Bowl next year is with Peyton.

A lot of reports and indications point towards Peyton getting pushed out the door. Do you not think Peyton gets a chance above and beyond? I mean he brought a Super Bowl to a franchise that was the laughing stock of the league for many, many years. Say we take a gamble, and pick up the bonus while using our #1 pick on a QB. If it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season, or when Jim Irsay sits down with Peyton he should say "Peyton I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. You can be our guy if you are healthy. When the times comes though, and you aren't ready we need you to retire." The only chance we have of winning a Super Bowl in the next three-four years is with Peyton. This team will not win a Super Bowl with that #1 pick in the coming years. I'm not saying it is incapable of a young QB to win a Super Bowl, i.e. Brady and Roethlisberger, but the #1 is not going to inherit the Patriot defense or the Steeler defense. Yes, our defense is going to be revamped, and most likely be improved in the offseason. Is that not another reason for us to take a gamble with Peyton? For once he has a chance to play with a strong defense.

Well you can say if we take Peyton we could hault the progress of our #1. Well if it works out Peyton can go in 2012, and our #1 gets a phenomenal mentor. If it doesn't work out our #1 won't miss his rookie season anyway because Manning is incapable of playing.

So what I am basically saying is give Peyton the benefit of the doubt above and beyond. If it doesn't work out we absorb the cap hit during the "rebuilding year." We have until June 1st until Peyton's contract counts against us next year, 2013-14 season. If by that time Peyton is a no go he must retire, or we release him. He at least deserves the chance.

[UndecidedFrog]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team in 2013.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $67.9MM to play one season ($26MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

[Balzer40]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $61.5MM to play one season.

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

This is exactly why Peyton won't be here. Regardless of Irsay's recent tweet that a decision was not reached weeks ago, refuting La Confora's report. They are not going to pay him that kind of money on a whim and prayer.

[bWild]

I agree that Peyton deserves the chance to finish what he started. This is the house that Peyton built. If he's healthy enough to go next year, he's our QB. I've accepted the drafting of Luck or RGIII, but either could use the tutilage and example of Peyton Manning. 28 million...SO WHAT!!! New England pays Tom Brady that kind of contract AND they used their 3rd rounder on a QB in last years draft. With the way the rookie scale works this year, we shouldn't be paying much more than NE does at the QB position. We could cut some other contract weight by releasing Dallas Clark, Gary Brackett, Melvin Bullitt, and signing Dwight Freeney to a more cap friendly deal.

[Fx Stryker]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $67.9MM to play one season ($26MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

I was under the impression he is worth a 16 million cap hit for the 2012-13 season. So if he is off the team by June 1st that is all we lose. Or is that completely wrong?

[Wyld1]

So you are 20? I am guessing that most of your life the Colts had Manning and were contenders?

I watched my first Colts game, that I can remember, in 1971 (I was 4) and it was the Superbowl vs the Cowboys...which we won. Now by saying "we" I mean the Colts...just for clarification.

Soon after Johnny U was shown the street and the greatest QB I ever saw, Bert Jones, brought the Colts back to respectibility...only to suffer from injuries and a trade to the Rams. From 1978 to 1998, with the exception of the strike induced 1987 divisional champ and 1995 team that lost to Pitt, there was little to cheer about.

I was ecstatic when PM was drafted in '98. I was a fan of his Father and was hopeful for a chance at greatness. It came, it was great and it was frustrating, as defensively those teams rarely could hold their own against the elite.

All said, I am greatful for what has transpired and what PM has given to the team but as a man once said, " the only constant in life is change. ". It's time for that change, imvho...and I embrace it with the hopes of a more balanced team and aggressive defense.

[UndecidedFrog]

I was under the impression he is worth a 16 million cap hit for the 2012-13 season. So if he is off the team by June 1st that is all we lose. Or is that completely wrong?

If you cut him before the contract expires, all the pro-rated portions accelerate.

If you cut him after the 2012 season, all the pro-rated portions of his signing bonus ($26MM) and his option bonus ($28MM) accelerate to the then present time.

If you cut him after the 2012 season, he will represent a dead cap space of $28.8MM.

If you ride out the contract, his cap space is as follows:

2011 $16MM

2012 $17MM

2013 $18MM

2014 $19MM

2015 $20MM

Total $90MM

To understand this better, I highly recommend you read this thread: http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/4819-the-peyton-predicament-by-andrew-brandt-can-the-colts-afford-to-keep-peyton/

[Fx Stryker]

If you cut him before the contract expires, all the pro-rated portions accelerate.

If you cut him after the 2012 season, all the pro-rated portions of his signing bonus ($26MM) and his option bonus ($28MM) accelerate to the then present time.

If you cut him after the 2012 season, he will represent a dead cap space of $28.8MM.

If you ride out the contract, his cap space is as follows:

2011 $16MM

2012 $17MM

2013 $18MM

2014 $19MM

2015 $20MM

Total $90MM

We wouldn't be cutting him after the 2012 season because then he gets his 2013 portion. June 1st would count as a cut before the 2012 season. So what would that represent.

[ace_6900]

So you are 20? I am guessing that most of your life the Colts had Manning and were contenders?

I watched my first Colts game, that I can remember, in 1971 (I was 4) and it was the Superbowl vs the Cowboys...which we won. Now by saying "we" I mean the Colts...just for clarification.

Soon after Johnny U was shown the street and the greatest QB I ever saw, Bert Jones, brought the Colts back to respectibility...only to suffer from injuries and a trade to the Rams. From 1978 to 1998, with the exception of the strike induced 1987 divisional champ and 1995 team that lost to Pitt, there was little to cheer about.

I was ecstatic when PM was drafted in '98. I was a fan of his Father and was hopeful for a chance at greatness. It came, it was great and it was frustrating, as defensively those teams rarely could hold their own against the elite.

All said, I am greatful for what has transpired and what PM has given to the team but as a man once said, " the only constant in life is change. ". It's time for that change, imvho...and I embrace it with the hopes of a more balanced team and aggressive defense.

Baltimore Colts and THE INDIANAPOLIS COLTS are technically the same but i do not thiunk it is the same for most of us. I was a Steelers fan before 1984 when we got a team in indy. I did not actually switch until the strike year in 87 when my favorite steelers retired.

[UndecidedFrog]

We wouldn't be cutting him after the 2012 season because then he gets his 2013 portion. June 1st would count as a cut before the 2012 season. So what would that represent.

Please read this thread to understand it better: http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/4819-the-peyton-predicament-by-andrew-brandt-can-the-colts-afford-to-keep-peyton/

[Wyld1]

Baltimore Colts and THE INDIANAPOLIS COLTS are technically the same but i do not thiunk it is the same for most of us. I was a Steelers fan before 1984 when we got a team in indy. I did not actually switch until the strike year in 87 when my favorite steelers retired.

The Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis......if you were born in Indy and moved to LA wouldn't YOU still be the same?

[UndecidedFrog]

We wouldn't be cutting him after the 2012 season because then he gets his 2013 portion. June 1st would count as a cut before the 2012 season. So what would that represent.

If you pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM on March 8, and you cut him prior to June 1:

2012 the dead cap space to the team will be $38.4MM, or 32% of the total salary cap for the team.

2013 the dead cap space to the team will be $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

2014 the dead cap space to the team will be $19.2MM, or 16% of the total salary cap for the team. (I goosed the salary cap by 10% in anticipation of additional TV revs)

2015 the dead cap space to the team will be $9.6MM, or 8% of the total salary cap for the team.

[Fx Stryker]

If you pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM on March 8, and you cut him prior to June 1:

2012 the dead cap space to the team will be $38.4MM, or 32% of the total salary cap for the team.

2013 the dead cap space to the team will be $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

2014 the dead cap space to the team will be $19.2MM, or 16% of the total salary cap for the team. (I goosed the salary cap by 10% in anticipation of additional TV revs)

2015 the dead cap space to the team will be $9.6MM, or 8% of the total salary cap for the team.

So $38.4MM isn't worth a gamble in a "rebuilding year?" The Colts aren't going anywhere next season under a rookie QB. It just isn't going to happen.

[presto123]

If you pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM on March 8, and you cut him prior to June 1:

2012 the dead cap space to the team will be $38.4MM, or 32% of the total salary cap for the team.

2013 the dead cap space to the team will be $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

2014 the dead cap space to the team will be $19.2MM, or 16% of the total salary cap for the team. (I goosed the salary cap by 10% in anticipation of additional TV revs)

2015 the dead cap space to the team will be $9.6MM, or 8% of the total salary cap for the team.

Ouch!!!! Does anybody doubt now that if he is not healthy in 5 more weeks he will be cut? Those numbers are insane.

[Balzer40]

So $38.4MM isn't worth a gamble in a "rebuilding year?" The Colts aren't going anywhere next season under a rookie QB. It just isn't going to happen.

No it is not IMO. Not even close to worth the gamble. The Steelers went to the super bowl with a rookie QB who's not even that good. The Jets went to the AFC championship with a rookie QB. It is possible the Colts go somewhere next season if they use the money they will save by cutting Manning to bring in a few FA's.

[colts52761]

Both those teams had top ranked defenses.

[Fx Stryker]

No it is not IMO. Not even close to worth the gamble. The Steelers went to the super bowl with a rookie QB who's not even that good. The Jets went to the AFC championship with a rookie QB. It is possible the Colts go somewhere next season if they use the money they will save cutting Manning to bring in a few FA's.

Like I said in my original post. I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams.

[presto123]

If you pay Peyton the option bonus of $28MM on March 8, and you cut him prior to June 1:

2012 the dead cap space to the team will be $38.4MM, or 32% of the total salary cap for the team.

2013 the dead cap space to the team will be $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team.

2014 the dead cap space to the team will be $19.2MM, or 16% of the total salary cap for the team. (I goosed the salary cap by 10% in anticipation of additional TV revs)

2015 the dead cap space to the team will be $9.6MM, or 8% of the total salary cap for the team.

Let me make sure I understand this right. If we keep Manning past the March 8 date and release him before June 1 it will still cost the team for the next 4 years? If so that is crazy and totally not worth the gamble.

[Balzer40]

Like I said in my original post. I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams.

You're contridicting yourself. Of course it's possible, its been done before. The Colts could be very good next yr. defensively if they spend the money from Manning wisely and Pagano's system and schemes work.

[GoColts8818]

The problem as others have stated is the cap hit that comes with doing this. This is the one out chance we have with Peyton's contract. If we pay him the bonus we are then locked into his contract for four more years and if we release him after that we are in real trouble with cap. That's why I keep saying I don't think we can take that risk if we don't know for sure if Peyton Manning is 100% healthy or not as much as I would like too.

Also I don't think Peyton Manning is being pushed out the door for Andrew Luck or RG3. They aren't the bad guy in this. If anything they are the good guys and I'll explain why. Peyton Manning is getting pushed out the door because of his health. His health was going to be the issue regardless of if there was a super star QB in the draft or not. Think about how much trouble we would be in if there wasn't going to be a super star QB in the draft for us to rebuild with? We aren't trying to dump Peyton Manning to get Luck or RG3. We are trying to get one of them because it doesn't look like Peyton Manning is going to be healthy.

There is another factor here. I think Luck is being quiet right now because he knows it's smart to let the Peyton Manning saga play out before he says anything. It could be if we lock into Peyton Manning's contract that Luck then says hey I don't want to go to Indianapolis with Peyton Manning there. I think irsay is willing to take that risk if he knows he has a 100% healthy Peyton Manning. With that said, I don't know if you can take that risk if Peyton's health is still a question. Could you imange what kind of shape our franchise would be in if we commit to Peyton Manning have him retire becuase he can't play and have Andrew Luck tell us don't draft me I wont sign there because you have Peyton Manning and we come out of all this with no QB and about a third of our salary cap committed to a player no longer on our roster? That scenario makes this past season look good. Right now Luck or RG3 are the light at the end of a very long and dark tunnel.

No there is no promise they will be great. However they are worth the risk if you can't have Peyton Manning because he's not healthy.

I am not going to lie there are a lot of ways this can go wrong but I do know this it's going to be a lot easier to fix it if we get it wrong and Peyton Manning can still play and is playing some place else and Luck or RG3 is a bust than it is going to be if we get it wrong and Peyton Manning can't play again and Luck or RG3 are the next great QB playing some place else

I hate the idea of Peyton Manning not being a Colt it doesn't seem fair. I also hate the idea that this could end Peyton Manning's career. However, I am learning to accept it and as a Colts fan that's all I can do. I am not going to boo my team when they are probably going to need my support more than ever but that's just me. Others can do as they please.

[UndecidedFrog]

Let me make sure I understand this right. If we keep Manning past the March 8 date and release him before June 1 it will still cost the team for the next 4 years? If so that is crazy and totally not worth the gamble.

No, if you pay Peyton $28MM on March 8, but then cut him before June 1 2012, the team would then be saddled with dead cap space in the amount of $38.4MM.

You don't continue to get cap space hit beyond 2012.

The other lines are for the other years for the what happens if you cut him then.

[coltsfanej]

I would also love to have Peyton back. But with his cap hit, he would need to be 100% healthy, and I dont think that is a possibility by March. I would love it if we released him and signed him to a cheaper deal, but that doesnt seem like a very likely of a move. If he ends up being healthy before next season after we release him then another team will pay him big money to give a couple stabs at a Super Bowl.

I hope that the only team Peyton plays for is the Colts. If he doesnt stay with us I want it to be because of retirement.

[Fx Stryker]

You're contridicting yourself. Of course it's possible, its been done before. The Colts could be very good next yr. defensively if they spend the money from Manning wisely and Pagano's system and schemes work.

How am I? I said it's not impossible. Just not going to happen on this team. The Colts could very well spend money on defense. The Eagles did, but they didn't turn out so good. Now if we take out money and dip it into free agency, and go after big players they could too become slumps just like Nnamdi did for the Eagles. I personally rather take a gamble on a player that has proven for us then someone who hasn't.

[coltsfanej]

The problem as others have stated is the cap hit that comes with doing this. This is the one out chance we have with Peyton's contract. If we pay him the bonus we are then locked into his contract for four more years and if we release him after that we are in real trouble with cap. That's why I keep saying I don't think we can take that risk if we don't know for sure if Peyton Manning is 100% healthy or not as much as I would like too.

Also I don't think Peyton Manning is being pushed out the door for Andrew Luck or RG3. They aren't the bad guy in this. If anything they are the good guys and I'll explain why. Peyton Manning is getting pushed out the door because of his health. His health was going to be the issue regardless of if there was a super star QB in the draft or not. Think about how much trouble we would be in if there wasn't going to be a super star QB in the draft for us to rebuild with? We aren't trying to dump Peyton Manning to get Luck or RG3. We are trying to get one of them because it doesn't look like Peyton Manning is going to be healthy.

There is another factor here. I think Luck is being quiet right now because he knows it's smart to let the Peyton Manning saga play out before he says anything. It could be if we lock into Peyton Manning's contract that Luck then says hey I don't want to go to Indianapolis with Peyton Manning there. I think irsay is willing to take that risk if he knows he has a 100% healthy Peyton Manning. With that said, I don't know if you can take that risk if Peyton's health is still a question. Could you imange what kind of shape our franchise would be in if we commit to Peyton Manning have him retire becuase he can't play and have Andrew Luck tell us don't draft me I wont sign there because you have Peyton Manning and we come out of all this with no QB and about a third of our salary cap committed to a player no longer on our roster? That scenario makes this past season look good. Right now Luck or RG3 are the light at the end of a very long and dark tunnel.

No there is no promise they will be great. However they are worth the risk if you can't have Peyton Manning because he's not healthy.

I am not going to lie there are a lot of ways this can go wrong but I do know this it's going to be a lot easier to fix it if we get it wrong and Peyton Manning can still play and is playing some place else and Luck or RG3 is a bust than it is going to be if we get it wrong and Peyton Manning can't play again and Luck or RG3 are the next great QB playing some place else

I hate the idea of Peyton Manning not being a Colt it doesn't seem fair. I also hate the idea that this could end Peyton Manning's career. However, I am learning to accept it and as a Colts fan that's all I can do. I am not going to boo my team when they are probably going to need my support more than ever but that's just me. Others can do as they please.

Said near perfectly!! I will also support my Colts. I hope some of the Peyton only fans or ones that predict a bad season cancel their season tickets and opens up for me to get em!

[Balzer40]

How am I? I said it's not impossible. Just not going to happen on this team. The Colts could very well spend money on defense. The Eagles did, but they didn't turn out so good. Now if we take out money and dip it into free agency, and go after big players they could too become slumps just like Nnamdi did for the Eagles. I personally rather take a gamble on a player that has proven for us then someone who hasn't.

You contridicted yourself by saying "I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams." Those young QB's did win, how they won is besides the point. Im not saying the Colts would make the playoffs next season with Luck, all Im saying is.....it is definitely possible.

[FireJimCaldwell]

What you described nonchalantly as "if it doesn't work out we can cut him after this following season" would represent salary cap suicide for the Colts.

Paying Peyton $28MM on March 8, and then cutting him after the 2012 season represents a dead cap space of $28.8MM, or 24% of the total salary cap for the team in 2013.

In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $67.9MM to play one season ($26MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

I know it is very tempting to spend OPM (other people's money), but there are real consequences of what you are suggesting.

Just to clarify. You've used the term 26mm signing bonus a couple of times...

For 2011

It was a 20 million signing bonus

3.4 base salary

3.0 roster bonus

Only the 20 gets prorated.

It just seems your #'s have been slightly off at times..but that should help, because you clearly understand the process...

[Jules]

You contridicted yourself by saying "I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams." Those young QB's did win, how they won is besides the point. Im not saying the Colts would make the playoffs next season with Luck, all Im saying is.....it is definitely possible.

If Tim freaking Tebow and THAT Broncos team made to the playoffs and WON a game I count nothing out. Nothing.

Bengals made it.

Darn, I hate the AFC this year......so open. So open.

[UndecidedFrog]

Just to clarify. You've used the term 26mm signing bonus a couple of times...

For 2011

It was a 20 million signing bonus

3.4 base salary

3.0 roster bonus

Only the 20 gets prorated.

It just seems your #'s have been slightly off at times..but that should help, because you clearly understand the process...

You are correct. I double counted the $6.4 in 2011.

So the corrected statement is :In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $61.9MM to play one season ($20MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

But the dead cap space calculations are correct

I understand how it works thanks to that Andrew Brandt article that elucidated parts ot Peyton's contract of which I was heretofore unaware.

[Fx Stryker]

You contridicted yourself by saying "I don't think it is impossible for a young Qb to win, just they were stuck on great teams." Those young QB's did win, how they won is besides the point. Im not saying the Colts would make the playoffs next season with Luck, all Im saying is.....it is definitely possible.

I still don't understand how that's a contradiction. "I don't think it is impossible" is acknowledging young QBs have won, but they were on on great defensive teams is why they won. They were a game manager more so then a game leader.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You are correct. I double counted the $6.4 in 2011.

So the corrected statement is :In terms of real money, this would mean paying Peyton $61.9MM to play one season ($20MM signing bonus, $28 option bonus, $7.5 salary for 2012, $6.4 salary and roster bonus for 2011)

But the dead cap space calculations are correct.

Base Salary
$3,400,000.00
$7,400,000.00
$8,400,000.00
$9,400,000.00
$10,400,000.00

I didn't pay 100% attention to the dead cap space

This is what i have:

If Manning is cut: Manning Dead Space
prior to the 2012 season  $38,400,000.00
prior to the 2013 season  $28,800,000.00
prior to the 2014 season  $19,200,000.00
prior to the 2015 season  $9,600,000.00

Just saw them... yes... they were right.

Of course if he were cut after 6/1, then any of those figures would be split in half between the year it happened and the following year.

[UndecidedFrog]

Base Salary
$3,400,000.00
$7,400,000.00
$8,400,000.00
$9,400,000.00
$10,400,000.00

I didn't pay 100% attention to the dead cap space

This is what i have:

If Manning is cut: Manning Dead Space
prior to the 2012 season  $38,400,000.00
prior to the 2013 season  $28,800,000.00
prior to the 2014 season  $19,200,000.00
prior to the 2015 season  $9,600,000.00

Just saw them... yes... they were right.

Of course if he were cut after 6/1, then any of those figures would be split in half between the year it happened and the following year.

Yes, my numbers for the salaries and the dead cap space align with yours.

Here are my team salary cap projections (including the bump for TV revs in 2014 onwards)

2011 $120.0MM

2012 $121.2MM

2013 $122.4MM

2014 $123.6MM

2105 $124.9MM

[Balzer40]

I still don't understand how that's a contradiction. "I don't think it is impossible" is acknowledging young QBs have won, but they were on on great defensive teams is why they won. They were a game manager more so then a game leader.

Ok, maybe I was reading it wrong, I've been known to do that before. ;) I understand what you are saying now.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes, my numbers for the salaries and the dead cap space align with yours.

Here are my team salary cap projections (including the bump for TV revs in 2014 onwards)

2011 $120.0MM

2012 $121.2MM

2013 $122.4MM

2014 $123.6MM a 10 % would bump it 134

2105 $124.9MM a 10 % of 134 would bump it to 148( I don't see consecutive 10% jumps). Maybe 10% in '14, then a 2% or so.

That's just a straight 1%

The 61.9, should be 61.8... I've seen 7.5, for the 2012 base salary when it would be 7.4... which i think is why a couple of the #'s have been slightly off.

[unitaswestand]

I guess a question I have is if Manning and the Colts agree, couldn't they just tear this up and make a new contract? For example what if Irsay says "Peyton, we want you to go out as a Colt, but we have to have some incentive for Andrew. So how about we tear up this contract and bonus, we will give you a 3 year contract that pays you 16 million a year, with the idea that at the end of three years you will retire and Andrew takes over".

Why can't this be done?? I guess I don't understand why it is that bonus is March or nothing? Can someone fill me in?

[Balzer40]

I guess a question I have is if Manning and the Colts agree, couldn't they just tear this up and make a new contract? For example what if Irsay says "Peyton, we want you to go out as a Colt, but we have to have some incentive for Andrew. So how about we tear up this contract and bonus, we will give you a 3 year contract that pays you 16 million a year, with the idea that at the end of three years you will retire and Andrew takes over".

Why can't this be done?? I guess I don't understand why it is that bonus is March or nothing? Can someone fill me in?

Firejimcaldwell, can explain why this can't happen. I know he's posted it before and is the reason why I feel there is no chance Manning will be here next season. It has to do with the CBA rules but I find that stuff extra-ordinarily boring so I don't keep up with it.

[UndecidedFrog]

That's just a straight 1%

The 61.9, should be 61.8... I've seen 7.5, for the 2012 base salary when it would be 7.4... which i think is why a couple of the #'s have been slightly off.

You're right again,

I was reading the wrong column from my spreadsheet.

2014 total cap is $134.6MM

2105 total cap is $137.3MM

And the 2012 salary should be $7.4. I will fix it on my spreadsheet

[FireJimCaldwell]

I guess a question I have is if Manning and the Colts agree, couldn't they just tear this up and make a new contract? For example what if Irsay says "Peyton, we want you to go out as a Colt, but we have to have some incentive for Andrew. So how about we tear up this contract and bonus, we will give you a 3 year contract that pays you 16 million a year, with the idea that at the end of three years you will retire and Andrew takes over".

Why can't this be done?? I guess I don't understand why it is that bonus is March or nothing? Can someone fill me in?

They can't ignore what's already set in place.

His current contract if he is released causes a 10.4million 2012 cap hit.

Now they could draw up a new one from there, but the cap hit will basically add to the 10.4.

CBA rules, and the way the contract was structured.

[GoColts8818]

I guess a question I have is if Manning and the Colts agree, couldn't they just tear this up and make a new contract? For example what if Irsay says "Peyton, we want you to go out as a Colt, but we have to have some incentive for Andrew. So how about we tear up this contract and bonus, we will give you a 3 year contract that pays you 16 million a year, with the idea that at the end of three years you will retire and Andrew takes over".

Why can't this be done?? I guess I don't understand why it is that bonus is March or nothing? Can someone fill me in?

This was a long time ago but the Colts did do this with Jeff Herrod. They wanted to redo his contract so the rule was they had to release him for 24 hours before he could sign his new contract. I have no idea how that rule has changed since then.

Also I don't think it gets ride of the salary cap that would come with releasing Peyton Manning in the first place even if they can do this.

[unitaswestand]

They can't ignore what's already set in place.

His current contract if he is released causes a 10.4million 2012 cap hit.

Now they could draw up a new one from there, but the cap hit will basically add to the 10.4.

CBA rules, and the way the contract was structured.

Thanks. So cap hit is 10.4 for 2012. Draw up a contract that pays him an additional 6 million for 2012 and then 16 million for the next two years. That can be done, correct? I guess my point is, it is not either eat the huge bonus and contract or cut him? There has to be other options.

[UndecidedFrog]

Firejimcaldwell, can explain why this can't happen. I know he's posted it before and is the reason why I feel there is no chance Manning will be here next season. It has to do with the CBA rules but I find that stuff extra-ordinarily boring so I don't keep up with it.

Egad! trying to rework an existing contract under a labor union agreement is very tricky. Any capitulation on value or timing will affect his cohort group's future earning potential in their respective negotiations with their teams.