Bill Polian?

[LUVTHESHOE]

Yeah his game has flaws. He's not the most athletic QB in the world. He's not very mobile, he throws better in the pocket than he throws on the move. Those are some of his flaws.

Saying he isn't a great passer isn't proclaiming a fall, it's just pure ignorance.

If you are saying Jeff George has a stronger arm then say so, but having a strong arm doesn't make one a great passer. Kyle Boller can attest to that. Manning's one of the two purest passers to ever play the game with Marino and neither one threw a tight spiral more than 50% of the time. A tight spiral doesn't make for a great passer.

Again, this is ridiculous and if you think Jeff George is a great passer and Manning isn't, then it's far worse than ridiculous.

Fire, you should know better than to talk sense. You will receive a paragraph of stuFF for your effort. Edited November 11, 2011 by PeytonGirl
name calling

[BionicDamien]

Go for it.

Let's see a detailed list.

Do you have any idea what you've just subjected us all to?

[dn4192]

Go for it.

Let's see a detailed list.

Each year the NFL has the exabitions where NFL QB's compete in a number of events that require skill and test them as passers. I don't believe in those type of drills Peyton would score very well. However, again that doesn't mean he isn't a great QB.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Go for it.

Let's see a detailed list.

The fact that Peyton" wobble ball"Manning holds almost every passing record probably has nothing to do with 4192's argument.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Dear God.

Do you have any idea what you've just subjected us all to?

LOL

[BionicDamien]

I would say we are where we are because (1) we are missing Peyton and (2) For whatever reason the Colts made a very poor choice for the backup QB. If we had a viable backup this team is like 3-6 or maybe even 4-5 this season, however with the person manning the QB position right now the odds of us winning is not very good. And who knows...maybe that was the master plan of those in charge from the start?

Of COURSE we're missing Manning. That goes back to my main point. Who's more valuable to the team? Who's more responsible for the run of success? The Polians just because they made the right choice in 1998?? %$^@$

Who's responsibility is it to assess the back QB position so that we have at least a decent one? Joe Fan sure realizes that Painter is horrifying. Which raises questions for me on what Sorgi was actually capable of. If they (the Polians) think Painter is/was decent, they probably had the same misconception about Sorgi so for all we know we may never have had a decent backup QB in the Manning era.

Who's decision was it to sign Collins? I mean, Manning as awesome as he is, shouldn't be the difference between 10-13 wins vs. possible 0'fer. I'm sorry, not buying it. Even with an awful QB.

[dn4192]

The fact that Peyton" wobble ball"Manning holds almost every passing record probably has nothing to do with 4192's argument.

Arnold Palmer is considered one of the greatest golfers of all time, yet very few people would say his swing is the perfect golf swing.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Each year the NFL has the exabitions where NFL QB's compete in a number of events that require skill and test them as passers. I don't believe in those type of drills Peyton would score very well. However, again that doesn't mean he isn't a great QB.

So the Quarterback Challenge? Really,.. That is your answer?

That's like saying someone that could win a slam dunk contest is a great basketball player.

Again, Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

[Nadine]

Due to multiple reports-5 for posts in this thread, I am closing this thread.

Please, I am asking people to be a little more thoughtful about what they post.

If you cannot tolerate certain posters, please ignore them, don't reply to them and choose other discussions.

Everyone please, make an effort.

Thanks

[Nadine]

By request, I am opening this back up. But please no more name calling, baiting, or other things that cause things to spiral.

Carry on

[BionicDamien]

:disco:

[BionicDamien]

So the Quarterback Challenge? Really,.. That is your answer?

That's like saying someone that could win a slam dunk contest is a great basketball player.

Again, Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

Alright, now I'm curious too.

[FireJimCaldwell]

QB Challenge winners.

• 2007 Josh McCown
  
• 2006 Not held
  
• 2005 Jake Delhomme
  
• 2004 Matt Hasselbeck
  
• 2003 Brad Johnson
  
• 2002 Jeff Garcia
  
• 2001 Trent Dilfer
  
• 2000 Jake Plummer
  
• 1999 Jake Plummer
  
• 1998 Jim Harbaugh
  
• 1997 Vinny Testaverde
  
• 1996 Neil O'Donnell
  
• 1995 Randall Cunningham
  
• 1994 Randall Cunningham
  
• 1993 Jeff Hostetler
  
• 1992 Dan Marino
  
• 1991 Dan Marino
  
• 1990 Ken O'Brien
  

Only one Hall of Famer. Some mediocre at best quarterback on that list. 2 Super Bowl Champions Johnson & Dilfer. Elite status there!

[BionicDamien]

Go Harbaugh!

[MAC]

QB Challenge winners.Only one Hall of Famer. Some mediocre at best quarterback on that list. 2 Super Bowl Champions Johnson & Dilfer. Elite status there!

The sarcasm is warranted, and I agree with your general argument, but I doubt that this competition demonstrates much.

My assumption was always that it was a "we'll take whomever we can get" competition which random entries - not a true effort to determine the best. Very few top QBs won it, because very few top QBs entered it. They had better things to do with their time.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The sarcasm is warranted, and I agree with your general argument, but I doubt that this competition demonstrates much.

My assumption was always that it was a "we'll take whomever we can get" competition which random entries - not a true effort to determine the best. Very few top QBs won it, because very few top QBs entered it. They had better things to do with their time.

Of course, but even that premise demonstrate much if you held the event and all 32 starters participated.

[LUVTHESHOE]

:disco:

YEEEEEE HAAAAAAAW, GAME BACK ON!, Now lets all play nice.

[LUVTHESHOE]

QB Challenge winners.

• 2007 Josh McCown
  
• 2006 Not held
  
• 2005 Jake Delhomme
  
• 2004 Matt Hasselbeck
  
• 2003 Brad Johnson
  
• 2002 Jeff Garcia
  
• 2001 Trent Dilfer
  
• 2000 Jake Plummer
  
• 1999 Jake Plummer
  
• 1998 Jim Harbaugh
  
• 1997 Vinny Testaverde
  
• 1996 Neil O'Donnell
  
• 1995 Randall Cunningham
  
• 1994 Randall Cunningham
  
• 1993 Jeff Hostetler
  
• 1992 Dan Marino
  
• 1991 Dan Marino
  
• 1990 Ken O'Brien
  

Only one Hall of Famer. Some mediocre at best quarterback on that list. 2 Super Bowl Champions Johnson & Dilfer. Elite status there!

Almost a who's who' of nfl greatness.Maybe the Mt. Rushmore of nfl QB'S

A

[Jason_]

I guess it comes down to how you determine what makes up a great passer.

No it comes down to you simply disagreeing with every viewpoint offered for the sake of arguing and trying to cause trouble. ;)

:feedtroll:

[BionicDamien]

Manning has a decent arm (well, had up until just recently, hope it returns!), superb vision and poise, uncanny awareness in the pocket, and the ability to maneuver under pressure and reset his balance (people mistakenly refer to this as "happy feet") almost in one motion to make a throw.

Oh, and he's extremely accurate. Sounds like a great passer to me.

[dn4192]

So the Quarterback Challenge? Really,.. That is your answer?

That's like saying someone that could win a slam dunk contest is a great basketball player.

Again, Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

There is more involved in being a great QB then just being a great passer, in fact I don't believe being a great passer = being a great QB. Joe Montana was not a great passer but is a great QB, John Elway was a great passer and is a great QB. There are a number of things that go into being a HOF QB, you don't have to be tops in each of those things.

[dn4192]

No it comes down to you simply disagreeing with every viewpoint offered for the sake of arguing and trying to cause trouble. ;)

:feedtroll:

No I view the game differently and for some reason unless you go with the "pack" mentality here you are viewed as wrong or a troll. If you want to view Peyton as a great passer, more power to you....I don't agree.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There is more involved in being a great QB then just being a great passer, in fact I don't believe being a great passer = being a great QB. Joe Montana was not a great passer but is a great QB, John Elway was a great passer and is a great QB. There are a number of things that go into being a HOF QB, you don't have to be tops in each of those things.

Let me rephrase this.

Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

[BionicDamien]

Let me rephrase this.

Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

I've lost my curiosity and really don't want to know what his answer is going to be....

[FireJimCaldwell]

I've lost my curiosity and really don't want to know what his answer is going to be....

He must not have one, since he's ignored the question 3 times.

[BionicDamien]

There is more involved in being a great QB then just being a great passer, in fact I don't believe being a great passer = being a great QB. Joe Montana was not a great passer but is a great QB, John Elway was a great passer and is a great QB. There are a number of things that go into being a HOF QB, you don't have to be tops in each of those things.

I simply don't understand your logic. To be a successful QB, an elite QB, you better be able to put the football on point, with velocity, and on time. Throw more touchdowns than interceptions, etc. etc. Are these not attributes of a good/great passer? The difference between bad/good/great more than likely being accuracy with velocity and touchdowns vs. interceptions?

I mean, Manning has thrown some poop balls in his day but they are few and far between. C'mon.

[dn4192]

He must not have one, since he's ignored the question 3 times.

I said how I would go about rating a QB's ability at being a good passer, if you don't like that idea that is on you.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I said how I would go about rating a QB's ability at being a good passer, if you don't like that idea that is on you.

You didn't offer an answer.

4th time:

Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

[dn4192]

I simply don't understand your logic. To be a successful QB, an elite QB, you better be able to put the football on point, with velocity, and on time. Throw more touchdowns than interceptions, etc. etc. Are these not attributes of a good/great passer? The difference between bad/good/great more than likely being accuracy with velocity and touchdowns vs. interceptions?

I mean, Manning has thrown some poop balls in his day but they are few and far between. C'mon.

I feel Manning puts the ball in good positions to catch not because of his arm so much but due to his ability to read defense and put the reciever in a good position. Manning doesn't have an exceptionaly strong arm, he can't "fire" it in there like say Elway could of even Rogers or Farve.

[BionicDamien]

I feel Manning puts the ball in good positions to catch not because of his arm so much but due to his ability to read defense and put the reciever in a good position. Manning doesn't have an exceptionaly strong arm, he can't "fire" it in there like say Elway could of even Rogers or Farve.

Exceptionally strong? Of course not, but having a rifle for an arm does not a good passer make.

And mind you, he doesn't "put" his receivers anywhere, he puts the BALL where his receivers have the best chance to make a play on it. Anywhere on the field. Hence, great passer.

[dn4192]

You didn't offer an answer.

4th time:

Let's see a list of attributes that make for a great passer.

They can throw the deep ball with extreme accuracy

They can thread a needle when needed

They can drop the ball in over the head of the reciever in traffic

They can throw across their body with force and accuracy.

All of these things Peyton can do to some level, but I would say someone like John Elway is an example of a great passer who could do all these things daily.

[FireJimCaldwell]

They can throw the deep ball with extreme accuracy

They can thread a needle when needed

They can drop the ball in over the head of the reciever in traffic

They can throw across their body with force and accuracy.

All of these things Peyton can do to some level, but I would say someone like John Elway is an example of a great passer who could do all these things daily.

So essentially a strong arm. That's all you have said. A strong arm makes a great passer.

[dn4192]

Exceptionally strong? Of course not, but having a rifle for an arm does not a good passer make.

And mind you, he doesn't "put" his receivers anywhere, he puts the BALL where his receivers have the best chance to make a play on it. Anywhere on the field. Hence, great passer.

I guess we disagree, he reads the defense and to me puts the catcher of the pass in the best position to make the easiest catch. To me you can be a great passer and not be a great QB.

[dn4192]

So essentially a strong arm. That's all you have said. A strong arm makes a great passer.

No you also have to have accuracy also. It's a combination.

[BionicDamien]

I guess we disagree, he reads the defense and to me puts the catcher of the pass in the best position to make the easiest catch. To me you can be a great passer and not be a great QB.

No, you can have a cannon arm and not be a great QB.

You can not be a great QB and not be an exceptionally competent passer. They go hand-in-hand.

[FireJimCaldwell]

No you also have to have accuracy also. It's a combination.

That's is why I asked for a list. Wanna try that again sport?

Strong Arm

Accuracy

Anything else?

[LUVTHESHOE]

So essentially a strong arm. That's all you have said. A strong arm makes a great passer.

Hey this is great news for me. I have a very strong arm, I am changing jobs.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Just for those keeping score at home.

John Elway 56.9 career completion %.

Jeff George 57.9 career completion %.

[BionicDamien]

Just for those keeping score at home.

John Elway 56.9 career completion %.

Jeff George 57.9 career completion %.

How dare you use numbers!

[Jason_]

No I view the game differently and for some reason unless you go with the "pack" mentality here you are viewed as wrong or a troll. If you want to view Peyton as a great passer, more power to you....I don't agree.

I disagree with pack mentality quite a bit. I don't think we should draft Luck regardless of Peyton's health and I don't think Bill Polian is as evil nor incompetent as many people claim him to be. Those are 2 opinions I hold that disagree with the majority of the "pack". Disagreeing with pack mentality does not make you a troll. ;)