Burls' Kid's...FINAL MOCK.

[akcolt]

I will track the careers of Holmes and Richburg as others do RGIII and Luck.

Keep us posted I am dying to know what you come up with. I will be comparing apples and oranges updates every Monday stay tuned

[Superman]

I will track the careers of Holmes and Richburg as others do RGIII and Luck.

 

LOL, you have fun with that, sir.

 

Just for the record, I have no problem with Richburg. If we traded out of #59 and Richburg somehow dropped down to the 4th round or something, I'd have no problem with drafting him. I just don't see center as a priority position for us in the draft. (Since Richburg isn't dropping like that, we should probably be talking more about Bodine, Swanson, etc.)

[ColtsBlueFL]

We are not taking a C in with 59 or 90 might trade back might/should take a lineman it won't be another C that is crazy Grigs said he doesn't want to start rookie C's and that he wants play now players How can you deduce from that we are taking a C? We aren't no way no how. It is the same stuff this board did with Mack when that was never an option.

 

We are getting Mack this and that like Cleveland didn't even have a transition tag on him. The O Line needs help that is for sure from where I sit drafting a C is not the kind of help it needs. Goodwin is still there so are both Cook brothers there will be cuts and UDFA's.

 

I want play now players I don't start rookie C's..... We should use our first pick on a C how can you possibly come up with that?

you want guaranteed mediocrity, not grow a star.  fine.  Holmes is a Redshirt Freshman, he's not played before either...  He can't be replaced, he hasn't been inserted yet.  That's Holmes only claim to the job is that he was drafted a year earlier. Nothing else.

 

I want to hear no complaints about our O line this upcoming season. None.

 

And I wasn't one calling for Mack,I was on top of that.  Go back and check my posts, so don't know why you even brought that up.

[ColtsBlueFL]

LOL, you have fun with that, sir.

 

Just for the record, I have no problem with Richburg. If we traded out of #59 and Richburg somehow dropped down to the 4th round or something, I'd have no problem with drafting him. I just don't see center as a priority position for us in the draft. (Since Richburg isn't dropping like that, we should probably be talking more about Bodine, Swanson, etc.)

Here's Grigson'squote on Holmes-

 

"We obviously have plans for him, but again, you have to compete and you have to win a job," Grigson said. "You’re not just going to settle into a job for being average, mediocre or adequate. You have to play at a winning level and ascend to a championship level."

 

Sounds good, but is hot air. It's a fixed deal, there's no competition for him to win his job.  We will continue to be mediocre and average without high quality prospects pushing each other. No washedup vet or 7th round C prospect is likely to supply that either.

 

Good to know Peps running game will click this year and Luck won't get touched very often. That's a relief. ;)

[Superman]

Here's Grigson'squote on Holmes-

 

"We obviously have plans for him, but again, you have to compete and you have to win a job," Grigson said. "You’re not just going to settle into a job for being average, mediocre or adequate. You have to play at a winning level and ascend to a championship level."

 

Sounds good, but is hot air. It's a fixed deal, there's no competition for him to win his job.  We will continue to be mediocre and average without high quality prospects pushing each other.

 

Now you're being melodramatic, and I'm losing interest.

 

Sign a veteran for competition. Draft later round guys for depth. But writing off your 4th rounder from last year doesn't make any sense.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Now you're being melodramatic, and I'm losing interest.

 

Sign a veteran for competition. Draft later round guys for depth. But writing off your 4th rounder from last year doesn't make any sense.

 

And you're getting tiring. Not writing off, providing real competition, for a 4th rounder that hasn't even contributed anything of his own yet.  Other moves to guard if they're both that good. Washed up vets and 7th rounders aren't true competition, just warm bodies to step in for injury. I'm done.  Moving on now.

[akcolt]

you want guaranteed mediocrity, not grow a star.  fine.  Holmes is a Redshirt Freshman, he's not played before either...  He can't be replaced, he hasn't been inserted yet.  That's Holmes only claim to the job is that he was drafted a year earlier. Nothing else.

 

I want to hear no complaints about our O line this upcoming season. None.

 

And I wasn't one calling for Mack,I was on top of that.  Go back and check my posts, so don't know why you even brought that up.

I AM SAYING we need to fix the O Line. You just want to do it by picking a player that Grigs has said on more than one occasion HE WON"T START A ROOKIE CENTER.

 

I think O LINE IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. I just think you are not going about fixing it the right way. If your solution is drafting a C at 59. I would have no problem going Gabe Jackson at 59 and a guy like Bodine who play's G/C in the 6th none at all. Then grabbing a couple of the guys at cuts a few UDFA's and if necessary bring in Kyle Cook or Goodwin on a 1 or 2 year deal. It makes absolutely no sense to take a C two years in a row when half of the starters are UDFA's. It is a waste of our pick Grigs wants play now players

[akcolt]

Here's Grigson'squote on Holmes-

 

"We obviously have plans for him, but again, you have to compete and you have to win a job," Grigson said. "You’re not just going to settle into a job for being average, mediocre or adequate. You have to play at a winning level and ascend to a championship level."

 

Sounds good, but is hot air. It's a fixed deal, there's no competition for him to win his job.  We will continue to be mediocre and average without high quality prospects pushing each other. No washedup vet or 7th round C prospect is likely to supply that either.

 

Good to know Peps running game will click this year and Luck won't get touched very often. That's a relief. ;)

Do you know who kyle cook or goodwin are? How do you know Holmes is no good? You are jumping to a lot of conclusions

[akcolt]

do you know how many starting C's are UDFA's?

[Superman]

And you're getting tiring. Not writing off, providing real competition, for a 4th rounder that hasn't even contributed anything of his own yet.  Other moves to guard if they're both that good. Washed up vets and 7th rounders aren't true competition, just warm bodies to step in for injury. I'm done.  Moving on now.

 

You already said your preferred strategy would be for Richburg to win the job in camp, then bench Holmes. How is that not writing him off?

 

It's also highly close-minded to push every available veteran into the "washed up" category. And several quality centers in the league right now were late round picks, if not UDFAs. Jason Kelce, 6th round. John Sullivan, 6th round. Chris Myers, 6th round. Evan Dietrich-Smith, UDFA. Brian de la Puente, UDFA. 

 

It's not true that the only way our line can improve next season is to draft a new center. It's actually a really unreasonable stance to take.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I AM SAYING we need to fix the O Line. You just want to do it by picking a player that Grigs has said on more than one occasion HE WON"T START A ROOKIE CENTER.

 

I think O LINE IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. I just think you are not going about fixing it the right way. If your solution is drafting a C at 59. I would have no problem going Gabe Jackson at 59 and a guy like Bodine who play's G/C in the 6th none at all. Then grabbing a couple of the guys at cuts a few UDFA's and if necessary bring in Kyle Cook or Goodwin on a 1 or 2 year deal. It makes absolutely no sense to take a C two years in a row when half of the starters are UDFA's. It is a waste of our pick Grigs wants play now players

 

Richburg is higher on the board than Jackson

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap2000000346744/article/2014-nfl-draft-mike-mayocks-top-100-prospects

 

and USA top 150 Richburg is 61 Jackson is 89.  So why why Jackson?

[ColtsBlueFL]

You already said your preferred strategy would be for Richburg to win the job in camp, then bench Holmes. How is that not writing him off?

 

Prove this assertion via a link, or I demand a full retraction.

 

I want the better guy in camp to get the job.  But I want them both.  That's my strategy.  Surely if they're that good, one can play guard, yes?

 

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/03/06/nfl-draft-top-10-weston-richburg-travis-swanson-marcus-martin/

 

I want this guy.  And i hope Holmes is so good he can beat him out in camp.

[akcolt]

Richburg is higher on the board than Jackson

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap2000000346744/article/2014-nfl-draft-mike-mayocks-top-100-prospects

 

and USA top 150 Richburg is 61 Jackson is 89.  So why why Jackson?

Jackson can play both G's very well and can kick out and play RT if necessary in case you have not noticed our O Line is pretty thin everywhere.

 

We could trade back get an extra pick or 2 to fill else where. We have a good team when it comes to our starters but outside of D Line TE WR we are pretty thin everywhere including important areas like O Line and on the back end of the D. We need to find a backs up for Toler and Howell or potential replacements. We need depth.

 

In a different draft maybe but to me the only way is to go is back in this one there is talent that we can use thru the 5th. Unless Grigs trades next years picks which he is likely to do. I personally would just like to stop doing that.

 

The same with Bodine late can play multiple positions. Bitonio from Neveda could slip and be there with Jackson he can play effectively all across the line from T to G.

 

Add all that to Grigs openly stating he basically won't play a rookie C it is a wasted pick or potentially  2 or 3 picks. We will have a better idea what we are doing tomorrow. Grigs may pull a first rounder out of his pocket who knows with that guy.

 

I am in total agreement with you we have a problem at O Line Grigs has a lot riding on fixing it Trent needs so room and Luck needs to be upright

[akcolt]

Prove this assertion via a link, or I demand a full retraction.

 

I want the better guy in camp to get the job.  But I want them both.  That's my strategy.  Surely if they're that good, one can play guard, yes?

 

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/03/06/nfl-draft-top-10-weston-richburg-travis-swanson-marcus-martin/

 

I want this guy.  And i hope Holmes is so good he can beat him out in camp.

Marcus Martin is a good G as well he only played one year at C i believe but I think he will be long gone by 59

[ColtsBlueFL]

Marcus Martin is a good G as well he only played one year at C i believe but I think he will be long gone by 59

Martin is ranked somewhat right behind Richburg in this article.  I could go for either, and in my contest entry (3 choices for each draft slot), I'm pretty sure they are 1 and 2 on my list as well, safety was my choice at 3 on my #59 pick.

 

EDIT: Yes, that's what i did a few days back-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/28072-offical-2014-colts-draft-contest/#entry795357

Edited May 8, 2014 by ColtsBlueFL

[Burls' Kid's]

I'm back gentlemen! Nadine fixed my profile up. Now...i can actually reply to you all.

[Burls' Kid's]

Jackson can play both G's very well and can kick out and play RT if necessary in case you have not noticed our O Line is pretty thin everywhere.

 

We could trade back get an extra pick or 2 to fill else where. We have a good team when it comes to our starters but outside of D Line TE WR we are pretty thin everywhere including important areas like O Line and on the back end of the D. We need to find a backs up for Toler and Howell or potential replacements. We need depth.

 

In a different draft maybe but to me the only way is to go is back in this one there is talent that we can use thru the 5th. Unless Grigs trades next years picks which he is likely to do. I personally would just like to stop doing that.

 

The same with Bodine late can play multiple positions. Bitonio from Neveda could slip and be there with Jackson he can play effectively all across the line from T to G.

 

Add all that to Grigs openly stating he basically won't play a rookie C it is a wasted pick or potentially  2 or 3 picks. We will have a better idea what we are doing tomorrow. Grigs may pull a first rounder out of his pocket who knows with that guy.

 

I am in total agreement with you we have a problem at O Line Grigs has a lot riding on fixing it Trent needs so room and Luck needs to be upright

 

 

 

I think Bodine's a wildcard in the draft. I've seen him mocked from anywhere from the 3rd-6th. I hope we could get him in the 6th, but i just don't see him falling that far. I think he'll go in the 4th-late 4th. If we come away with Jackson and Dowling, then i'm quite happy...overall. If we swing jackson, bodine and dowling, then i'm thrilled! Another name is ZACH MOORE...the guy has Colt's written all over him. He reminds me of Art Jones...actually. WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HIM.

[Burls' Kid's]

O. K. Burls' Kid's, you have me convinced.  I think Gabe Jackson is just what the doctor ordered.  He could easily step into the starting lineup.  I don't consider Thornton a wasted pick if he becomes the backup.  He was a low third round pick in a weak draft.  I am definately one of those build the trench kind of guys.  When people say you can wait and get OL in the 5th round, I kind of shake my head.  You can get the fast little guys in lower rounds too.  You have a lot of names on your mock I'm not familiar with.  Nice. 

 

 

2.  Gabe Jackson

3.  Russell Bodine  - Again, I'm not giving up on Holmes, he was a 4th rounder.  I'm fine with him as a backup.

5.  Johnathan Dowling -   This is just for your enthusiasm alone.  You've convinced me Burls'

6.  Andre Hal

7. Spencer Long

 

 

I would just go ahead and take Bodine at three instead of trading down.  These are not reaches for needs.  A good OL could make a huge difference.

 

 

I watch these guys play...scout them...watch their tape. Johnathan Dowling is one of the best SS/FS i've ever seen. If we swing jackson and bodine, then i'm over-the-top crazy for our COLT'S! CHAMPIONS ARE BUILT ON THE LINE. That's why the birds killed manning and company.

[Superman]

Prove this assertion via a link, or I demand a full retraction.

 

I want the better guy in camp to get the job.  But I want them both.  That's my strategy.  Surely if they're that good, one can play guard, yes?

 

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/03/06/nfl-draft-top-10-weston-richburg-travis-swanson-marcus-martin/

 

I want this guy.  And i hope Holmes is so good he can beat him out in camp.

 

This is really silly. 

 

It's inferred from these two posts: http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 

 

To sum up: Draft Richburg and let the line develop with him as center, and Holmes is on the bench. Is that not what you meant?

 

Again, all I'm saying is that having Holmes (and Thornton) makes interior line not a priority position for us in the draft. You draft young linemen and then you give them a chance to play. That's how you develop good line play. Drafting MORE young linemen should be for development, depth and competition, but I don't think you use a second round pick for development, depth and competition. Especially not when you don't have a first rounder. I think we should draft someone at #59 who can be penciled in as a starter or rotational backup, who will get on the field without someone else getting hurt, etc. 

 

(And as a side point, center is traditionally NOT a priority position when building a line. Most teams place more emphasis on good guard and tackle play, and the smallest, weakest, least athletic guy plays center. The Saints used this strategy with BdlP at center, then let him walk for virtually no money, because they have great guards. Doesn't mean you can't acquire a monster at center, just pointing out that there's a reason there's usually no more than one center taken in the first round, if that.)

 

Marcus Martin might wind up being a third rounder, depending on how the draft goes. Bodine is probably a 3rd/4th round prospect, at best. Swanson is there. I like John Urschel in even later rounds, James Stone is a UDFA prospect, along with other interior line prospects who can play guard and center. There are veterans still available. There are plenty of ways to add competition and depth at interior line, including center. I don't think we should just hand the starting job to Holmes, and I'm not afraid of adding a potentially better prospect at the position, for fear Holmes gets beat. I also don't think the only way to add legitimate competition at this point is by using our top pick on a center. Again, I just don't think it makes sense for our team to do so. 

 

Last thing: I find it hard to continue to be patient with the offensive line. Not because of Luck, but because our offense won't get to the next level until we have a consistent run game. That's why my preferred strategy would have been to sign a veteran center and make Holmes earn a spot at center or guard. Yes, it's undermining Holmes, but you're adding a proven pro, not a rookie who will go through the same growing pains Holmes has to go through. It's more likely to make us better right now, while pushing Holmes and giving him opportunities to get in the game at other positions. 

 

But seeing that we didn't go with that strategy makes Grigson's preferred strategy very clear to me: by penciling Holmes in as the starter (making him first on the depth chart isn't "handing him the job") and bringing in veteran depth and competition, it signals that they are content to develop their young guys. While that's less satisfying from a fan's perspective, it still makes sense. It just requires patient optimism. That's why I went back and watched a bunch of Khaled Holmes film from USC, read his scouting reports from last year, and compared him to some of the other centers drafted over the last couple of years and the guys in this year's draft. Holmes was a very good prospect, and I think his redshirt year makes him better. So I can get behind this strategy, even though it's not the one I wanted.

[Burls' Kid's]

 

This is really silly. 

 

It's inferred from these two posts: http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 

 

To sum up: Draft Richburg and let the line develop with him as center, and Holmes is on the bench. Is that not what you meant?

 

Again, all I'm saying is that having Holmes (and Thornton) makes interior line not a priority position for us in the draft. You draft young linemen and then you give them a chance to play. That's how you develop good line play. Drafting MORE young linemen should be for development, depth and competition, but I don't think you use a second round pick for development, depth and competition. Especially not when you don't have a first rounder. I think we should draft someone at #59 who can be penciled in as a starter or rotational backup, who will get on the field without someone else getting hurt, etc. 

 

(And as a side point, center is traditionally NOT a priority position when building a line. Most teams place more emphasis on good guard and tackle play, and the smallest, weakest, least athletic guy plays center. The Saints used this strategy with BdlP at center, then let him walk for virtually no money, because they have great guards. Doesn't mean you can't acquire a monster at center, just pointing out that there's a reason there's usually no more than one center taken in the first round, if that.)

 

Marcus Martin might wind up being a third rounder, depending on how the draft goes. Bodine is probably a 3rd/4th round prospect, at best. Swanson is there. I like John Urschel in even later rounds, James Stone is a UDFA prospect, along with other interior line prospects who can play guard and center. There are veterans still available. There are plenty of ways to add competition and depth at interior line, including center. I don't think we should just hand the starting job to Holmes, and I'm not afraid of adding a potentially better prospect at the position, for fear Holmes gets beat. I also don't think the only way to add legitimate competition at this point is by using our top pick on a center. Again, I just don't think it makes sense for our team to do so. 

 

Last thing: I find it hard to continue to be patient with the offensive line. Not because of Luck, but because our offense won't get to the next level until we have a consistent run game. That's why my preferred strategy would have been to sign a veteran center and make Holmes earn a spot at center or guard. Yes, it's undermining Holmes, but you're adding a proven pro, not a rookie who will go through the same growing pains Holmes has to go through. It's more likely to make us better right now, while pushing Holmes and giving him opportunities to get in the game at other positions. 

 

But seeing that we didn't go with that strategy makes Grigson's preferred strategy very clear to me: by penciling Holmes in as the starter (making him first on the depth chart isn't "handing him the job") and bringing in veteran depth and competition, it signals that they are content to develop their young guys. While that's less satisfying from a fan's perspective, it still makes sense. It just requires patient optimism. That's why I went back and watched a bunch of Khaled Holmes film from USC, read his scouting reports from last year, and compared him to some of the other centers drafted over the last couple of years and the guys in this year's draft. Holmes was a very good prospect, and I think his redshirt year makes him better. So I can get behind this strategy, even though it's not the one I wanted.

 

 

 

 

I'm with you, i like the martin pick, but not the best pick for us. We're bleeding on the O-LINE ( I played along side Burlsworth), so i know the line quite well.  We need all the help we can get. I haven't spoken or talked about ball in 12 years. I've been away for a long time.

[Superman]

I'm with you, i like the martin pick, but not the best pick for us. We're bleeding on the O-LINE ( I played along side Burlsworth), so i know the line quite well.  We need all the help we can get. I haven't spoken or talked about ball in 12 years. I've been away for a long time.

 

Let me ask you this: How long do you think it takes for a young lineman to develop into a quality starter? How many seasons, how many snaps, how many games? However you break it down, give me an estimate.

[Burls' Kid's]

Let me ask you this: How long do you think it takes for a young lineman to develop into a quality starter? How many seasons, how many snaps, how many games? However you break it down, give me an estimate.

 

 

 2 years...atleast. I would be thrilled if holmes could prove me wrong, but i have my doubts. I know what dominate O-LINEMEN CAN DO. But i don't see that with him. He's a good kid, but nothing more. Just a solid back-up...nothing wrong with that!

[Superman]

 2 years...atleast. I would be thrilled if holmes could prove me wrong, but i have my doubts. I know what dominate O-LINEMEN CAN DO. But i don't see that with him. He's a good kid, but nothing more. Just a solid back-up...nothing wrong with that!

 

I don't know what you'd be looking for from Holmes, but that's fair. I'd just add that most centers aren't asked to be dominant. If you get dominance out of your guards (which I think a healthy Thomas and an improved Thornton can give us), then your center just needs to be average, really. Holmes, I think, can be above average. I don't expect him to be a Pouncey Brother, but I think he can be pretty good.

[Burls' Kid's]

I don't know what you'd be looking for from Holmes, but that's fair. I'd just add that most centers aren't asked to be dominant. If you get dominance out of your guards (which I think a healthy Thomas and an improved Thornton can give us), then your center just needs to be average, really. Holmes, I think, can be above average. I don't expect him to be a Pouncey Brother, but I think he can be pretty good.

 

 

No, he's better than that! (better than those thugs...pouncey brothers) . He's a good hard working kid. I hope he can FIND THE HEART TO GET THE JOB DONE. I'm not knockin' him...i like him! I want more from him. PLEASE DON'T COMPARE our holmes to those losers (pouncey brohers) . We don't want that type of trash on our colt's. Do you?

[Jason_]

No, he's better than that! (better than those thugs...pouncey brothers) . He's a good hard working kid. I hope he can FIND THE HEART TO GET THE JOB DONE. I'm not knockin' him...i like him! I want more from him. PLEASE DON'T COMPARE our holmes to those losers (pouncey brohers) . We don't want that type of trash on our colt's. Do you?

 

Just going out on a limb here but I think Superman was referencing the Pouncey's more for their level of talent, not personality/character.

[Superman]

Just going out on a limb here but I think Superman was referencing the Pouncey's more for their level of talent, not personality/character.

 

You're safe on that limb.

[Superman]

No, he's better than that! (better than those thugs...pouncey brothers) . He's a good hard working kid. I hope he can FIND THE HEART TO GET THE JOB DONE. I'm not knockin' him...i like him! I want more from him. PLEASE DON'T COMPARE our holmes to those losers (pouncey brohers) . We don't want that type of trash on our colt's. Do you?

 

First round prospects who stepped in and played well right away. Put Travis Frederick in there instead, whatever. 

[Burls' Kid's]

I don't know what you'd be looking for from Holmes, but that's fair. I'd just add that most centers aren't asked to be dominant. If you get dominance out of your guards (which I think a healthy Thomas and an improved Thornton can give us), then your center just needs to be average, really. Holmes, I think, can be above average. I don't expect him to be a Pouncey Brother, but I think he can be pretty good.

 

 

Please forgive me. I've played the line, so i know what it takes. I'm crazy about it! I've gave my blood...sweat and tears.

[Burls' Kid's]

First round prospects who stepped in and played well right away. Put Travis Frederick in there instead, whatever. 

 

 

My apologies. I fight hard for the line...i played it. I know the line more than most,so that's why i offer an opinion.

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

This is really silly. 

 

It's inferred from these two posts: http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/#entry798748 

 

Those two are the same post, but in any event, you inferred wrong. I meant what I wrote, no impying/inferring necessary-   "

1. "I'm for getting more and having real competition.  Best man wins, other guy has to win it back, or step up if he gets hurt."

 

To sum up: Draft Richburg and let the line develop with him as center, and Holmes is on the bench. Is that not what you meant?

 

Only if hf/when he proves to be the better choice.  I'm hoping he will be top tier, so I hope wil Holmes.  But I don't trust holmes as much as Richburg, if that is what you are getting at.  But let's see, is my position.

 

Again, all I'm saying is that having Holmes (and Thornton) makes interior line not a priority position for us in the draft. You draft young linemen and then you give them a chance to play. That's how you develop good line play. Drafting MORE young linemen should be for development, depth and competition, but I don't think you use a second round pick for development, depth and competition. Especially not when you don't have a first rounder. I think we should draft someone at #59 who can be penciled in as a starter or rotational backup, who will get on the field without someone else getting hurt, etc. 

 

You get to air that opinion. I beg to differ and am allowed that as well.

(And as a side point, center is traditionally NOT a priority position when building a line. Most teams place more emphasis on good guard and tackle play, and the smallest, weakest, least athletic guy plays center. The Saints used this strategy with BdlP at center, then let him walk for virtually no money, because they have great guards. Doesn't mean you can't acquire a monster at center, just pointing out that there's a reason there's usually no more than one center taken in the first round, if that.)

 

I want a fast, explosive, durable and cerebral center.  Richburg fits.  How about Holmes?

 

Marcus Martin might wind up being a third rounder, depending on how the draft goes. Bodine is probably a 3rd/4th round prospect, at best. Swanson is there. I like John Urschel in even later rounds, James Stone is a UDFA prospect, along with other interior line prospects who can play guard and center. There are veterans still available. There are plenty of ways to add competition and depth at interior line, including center. I don't think we should just hand the starting job to Holmes, and I'm not afraid of adding a potentially better prospect at the position, for fear Holmes gets beat. I also don't think the only way to add legitimate competition at this point is by using our top pick on a center. Again, I just don't think it makes sense for our team to do so. 

 

Our top center is an oft injured, 4th rounder that has not proven anything. He should not get starting center under those circumstance, IMHO. Needs some good competition.

 

Last thing: I find it hard to continue to be patient with the offensive line. Not because of Luck, but because our offense won't get to the next level until we have a consistent run game. That's why my preferred strategy would have been to sign a veteran center and make Holmes earn a spot at center or guard. Yes, it's undermining Holmes, but you're adding a proven pro, not a rookie who will go through the same growing pains Holmes has to go through. It's more likely to make us better right now, while pushing Holmes and giving him opportunities to get in the game at other positions. 

 

Even mediocre centers cost a lot.  Richburg addition cost nothing in comparison.  And, he (the vet) needs to be good.  Grigson didn't like that direction for some reason.

 

But seeing that we didn't go with that strategy makes Grigson's preferred strategy very clear to me: by penciling Holmes in as the starter (making him first on the depth chart isn't "handing him the job") and bringing in veteran depth and competition, it signals that they are content to develop their young guys. While that's less satisfying from a fan's perspective, it still makes sense. It just requires patient optimism. That's why I went back and watched a bunch of Khaled Holmes film from USC, read his scouting reports from last year, and compared him to some of the other centers drafted over the last couple of years and the guys in this year's draft. Holmes was a very good prospect, and I think his redshirt year makes him better. So I can get behind this strategy, even though it's not the one I wanted.

 

His durability will be a question until he proves otherwise.  Not sure how high a bar the vet(s) and other competition we brought in sets either.  I'll wait until after the draft before I decide to be on board his direction right away or not.  But I'll hope his decisions, no matter what they turn out to be, pan out in the best interest of the team.

[Superman]

His durability will be a question until he proves otherwise.  Not sure how high a bar the vet(s) and other competition we brought in sets either.  I'll wait until after the draft before I decide to be on board his direction right away or not.  But I'll hope his decisions, no matter what they turn out to be, pan out in the best interest of the team.

 

Here's the other post I meant to link to: http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/?p=798755

 

All said, I just don't think drafting another center is a good strategy. I disagree with your idea of what it would cost us to draft a center at #59. The money is less, but the impact is significant, especially if we pass on good players who can fill holes at other positions.

 

What we agree with is that we want the team to get better, and we want the line to get better. I just disagree with your strategy as it relates to the draft. Doesn't mean I don't want the line to be great, or that I'm content with mediocrity. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Fair enough.

 

I do find it interesting low round players and old waning vets are fine for the line, but not so much other positions...  Especially when the line has proven to be a chronic weak spot.  But, OK.

[Burls' Kid's]

Here's the other post I meant to link to: http://forums.colts.com/topic/28419-burls-kidsfinal-mock/?p=798755

 

All said, I just don't think drafting another center is a good strategy. I disagree with your idea of what it would cost us to draft a center at #59. The money is less, but the impact is significant, especially if we pass on good players who can fill holes at other positions.

 

What we agree with is that we want the team to get better, and we want the line to get better. I just disagree with your strategy as it relates to the draft. Doesn't mean I don't want the line to be great, or that I'm content with mediocrity. 

 

 

 

Solid O-LINE depth is a good thing...right? We lack the depth to challenge the TRUE contenders...thus far. The SUPER BOWL is won in the trenches...period. Let's not be crazy about it. This is how it's done.

[Superman]

Solid O-LINE depth is a good thing...right? We lack the depth to challenge the TRUE contenders...thus far. The SUPER BOWL is won in the trenches...period. Let's not be crazy about it. This is how it's done.

 

If you think it takes two years for a lineman to develop, then how is drafting guys at the top of the draft to be depth a good idea? That's what veterans are for. And if you're going to develop younger guys from a bench/reserve position, what's wrong with guy like Bodine, Swanson, Stork, Stone, Urschel, Schofield, Yankey, etc., in the 5th round and beyond? (I'm watching NFL Network right now, and Shaun O'Hara is talking right now about how the Giants built their line using a lot of UDFAs, like himself. He was a three-time Pro Bowler.)

 

The game is won in the trenches, but you only play five linemen at a time. And those five linemen will only develop if you give them the time and reps they need. It is my opinion that Holmes is as good a prospect as anyone in this draft, specifically because he's a year ahead of them. This is assuming he's healthy, which he is right now. Yes, build the trenches, please. But give the guys you bring in a chance to develop.

[Burls' Kid's]

If you think it takes two years for a lineman to develop, then how is drafting guys at the top of the draft to be depth a good idea? That's what veterans are for. And if you're going to develop younger guys from a bench/reserve position, what's wrong with guy like Bodine, Swanson, Stork, Stone, Urschel, Schofield, Yankey, etc., in the 5th round and beyond? (I'm watching NFL Network right now, and Shaun O'Hara is talking right now about how the Giants built their line using a lot of UDFAs, like himself. He was a three-time Pro Bowler.)

 

The game is won in the trenches, but you only play five linemen at a time. And those five linemen will only develop if you give them the time and reps they need. It is my opinion that Holmes is as good a prospect as anyone in this draft, specifically because he's a year ahead of them. This is assuming he's healthy, which he is right now. Yes, build the trenches, please. But give the guys you bring in a chance to develop.

 

 

 I like holmes as well, but so far, he hasn't come through, with the heart i wanted to see from him. Maybe he can,...its possible, but so far...he hasn't. I love bodine/ikard/lee picks! Much more than holmes himself. MAYBE, WE CAN MOTIVATE HIM.

 

 

 

 I like holmes, cause he's a good kid. But he must show the extra heart needed ro come through!

[ColtsBlueFL]

 I like holmes as well, but so far, he hasn't come through, with the heart i wanted to see from him. Maybe he can,...its possible, but so far...he hasn't. I love bodine/ikard/lee picks! Much more than holmes himself. MAYBE, WE CAN MOTIVATE HIM.

 

 

 

 I like holmes, cause he's a good kid. But he must show the extra heart needed ro come through!

And stay healthy!  Be nice to have someone bring out the hunger and heart in Holmes.

[Burls' Kid's]

And stay healthy!  Be nice to have someone bring out the hunger and heart in Holmes.

 

 

Need competition! MUST PUSH THESE GUYS!

[Gavin]

If you think it takes two years for a lineman to develop, then how is drafting guys at the top of the draft to be depth a good idea? That's what veterans are for. And if you're going to develop younger guys from a bench/reserve position, what's wrong with guy like Bodine, Swanson, Stork, Stone, Urschel, Schofield, Yankey, etc., in the 5th round and beyond? (I'm watching NFL Network right now, and Shaun O'Hara is talking right now about how the Giants built their line using a lot of UDFAs, like himself. He was a three-time Pro Bowler.)

 

The game is won in the trenches, but you only play five linemen at a time. And those five linemen will only develop if you give them the time and reps they need. It is my opinion that Holmes is as good a prospect as anyone in this draft, specifically because he's a year ahead of them. This is assuming he's healthy, which he is right now. Yes, build the trenches, please. But give the guys you bring in a chance to develop.

"It is my opinion that Holmes is as good a prospect as anyone in this draft, specifically because he's a year ahead of them."

 

Meh, maybe Im just pickin here (I probably am) but I think Holmes is as good as any Center in this draft(Not nearly as good as ANY Olineman in this draft in my opinion both Matthews and Robinson are stronger then Holmes coming out and Matthews technique was superior )....except a possible healthy Bryan Stork......But I disagree that it has absolutely anything do with being a year ahead of any O Lineman in this draft, Thats like saying Satele is better then Holmes because Satele has been in the league several more years. It would be very hard for Khaled Holmes not to be at least as good as Satele......Though that would be a big disappointment in of itself just to be as good. Can Holmes be better? No doubt about it but I dont think he was coming out and may not be his second year in the league...His first year starting...Hopefully, I defintily think we have to find out however....But I'd still jump all over Bodine in a trade down to the 4th if we can pull that off

[Superman]

 I like holmes as well, but so far, he hasn't come through, with the heart i wanted to see from him. Maybe he can,...its possible, but so far...he hasn't. I love bodine/ikard/lee picks! Much more than holmes himself. MAYBE, WE CAN MOTIVATE HIM.

 

 

 

 I like holmes, cause he's a good kid. But he must show the extra heart needed ro come through!

 

 

And stay healthy!  Be nice to have someone bring out the hunger and heart in Holmes.

 

He was hurt at the beginning of the year, and that pretty much knocked him out of the rotation. But he was healthy at the end of the year. I blame that on the coaches for rolling with Satele, McGlynn and Linkenbach. I haven't been beating that drum because all three of those guys are gone now.

 

Anyways, I look at 2013 as a redshirt year for Holmes. There's not too much evaluation to make right now based on last year. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

He was hurt at the beginning of the year, and that pretty much knocked him out of the rotation. But he was healthy at the end of the year. I blame that on the coaches for rolling with Satele, McGlynn and Linkenbach. I haven't been beating that drum because all three of those guys are gone now.

 

Anyways, I look at 2013 as a redshirt year for Holmes. There's not too much evaluation to make right now based on last year. 

 

He was hurt in 2011, and 2012 too-

 

"Holmes missed time during the 2012 season with an ankle injury. That slowed him throughout the year. He also suffered a shoulder injury which caused him to miss USC's 2011 spring practices."

 

Plus-

 

"If Holmes has a weakness in terms of his physical skills, it's his strength. He was not tested in the bench press this offseason due to a pectoral injury, but he clearly struggled with stronger defensive tackles in college."

 

Then he missed the whole 2013 Colts season due to injury.  I'm not sold on his durability. If he's hurt, we're only as good as his backup.