Stage was set for Manning's defeat... from 1998

[tonychen]

The defeat was astonishing but the stage was set from long time ago for Manning to be defeated in big games, and largely by himself.

 

Manning as NFL's golden boy entered the league with all the expectations. For a long time he's the face of the league and he has been playing as one of the greatest for 16 years. At age of 37, people care about his legacy.

 

But the problem is here: Before the biggest game of the year and maybe Manning's career, considering he may or may not be here again with at most 2 years left, people are only talking about HIS legacy, and it is Manning VS. the Seahawks instead of Broncos VS Seahawks. On this stage, nobody is brighter than Manning, even the legendary John Elway.

 

This is simply not a good formula for success. Nobody is going to be better than a whole team in football, which is the ultimate team sport. You can be as good as Michael Jordan, but in football you cannot defeat the other team by yourself like Jordan sometimes did, not to mention the opponent is the best team in quite a long period of time.

 

It is, once again, Mr. Manning and his 52 men VS. the league's best team working together as a monster. It is not going to end well. The game itself showed. Denver's D wasn't going to dominate anybody but they managed to hold Seattle to 8 points with a horrible start by the offense. Then Manning's two turnovers gave Seattle14 points and the game was pretty much determined at half time. John Fox showed his dissatisfaction saying the team needed to stop the turnovers, which was a shot at Manning. Maybe they had a plan to play a little safe at the beginning but Manning calls his own plays.

 

Cardinals, Colts, and 49ers showed what it takes to beat Seahawks - You need to be patient. Run the ball even when you don't gain a lot until you find a crack. Punt when you are stopped and let your defense play. Let Seahawks earn their yards and points. In one sentence, you need to work as a team to grind it out. Mr. Manning obviously selected to go with his own route, which played right into Seahawks' hands.

 

This was very similar to Manning's earlier defeats at Pats 10 years ago. And that Pats team was awfully similar to this Seahawks team - Solid defense and running game, good game manager at QB, great coaching, and most importantly with nobody higher than the team. After 10 years, it is still Mr. Manning and his 52 men fighting for his legacy. No matter how good Manning plays, the stage is set for failure and it was lucky to have Grossman on the other side in 06.

 

Give Mr. Irsay credit for realizing this 2 years ago. Do a good draft and keep building a good team, next year Colts will have a better chance to lift the trophy than Manning.

[GoPats]

Manning is, to an extent, a victim of his own regular-season success. He's raised the bar for MVP awards and other-wordly production from the position. I agree that he absorbs more blame than he should but the reality is that he probably also gets more credit than he should when his teams win. Same applies other top QBs league-wide.

[oldunclemark]

        You never heard what a loser or choker Brett farve was///but they have very similar records....

 

....... I think Manning has a higher profile than  Tom Brady or Drew Brees because he's all over TV, and even if he wasn't.

 

   Manning's brother is a Pro QB and his dad was an NFL star.....all three were college All-Americans

 

 

    Peyton will always be a product and a victim of what he is...he will never achieve what he is expected to do....

 

....Even a second title wont change that...

 

 But its not a burden he hasn't always carried

[tonychen]

Manning is, to an extent, a victim of his own regular-season success. He's raised the bar for MVP awards and other-wordly production from the position. I agree that he absorbs more blame than he should but the reality is that he probably also gets more credit than he should when his teams win. Same applies other top QBs league-wide.

 

Agreed but none of them is focused as much as Manning. Starting from him the value of franchise QBs has elevated drastically and this is a shortcut to achieve regular season success. Teams have to do this and pay their franchise QB since they depend on them to sell tickets. But in the post season, a better overall team generally goes further, and on the stage of Super Bowl in the past 10+ years, better teams won more than better QBs, with Aaron Rodgers being an exception.

 

Pats need to learn from the lesson. Until they can go back to their old self they cannot win the big one again.

[pacolts56]

Good post Tony.

 

The unfortunate part is that no one more than Peyton himself understands the acutely delicate balance between the team concept and the built-in credit/blame paradox that QBs live with. He's happy and able to shoulder the responsibility and provide the leadership and work ethic example that NFL QBs are expected to provide....but being the team sport that it is....he knows full well that 10 other offensive team mates and 52 other roster spots plus the coaches HAVE to do their jobs to win a football game, whether its preseason or the Super Bowl.

 

He knows this....its the media looking for a story and a whole lot of whipped-up fans who don't always get it.

 

I said in a post the other day that in almost every press conference he gives, he answers football questions about himself with the words "we", "us" and "team"....with the emphasis on TEAM.

 

And as GOPATS said...the regular season accolades do him no favors and probably fire up the opposition more than anything....especially a collection of nasty attitude-types like the Seahawks.

 

 

[GoPats]

Agreed but none of them is focused as much as Manning. Starting from him the value of franchise QBs has elevated drastically and this is a shortcut to achieve regular season success. Teams have to do this and pay their franchise QB since they depend on them to sell tickets. But in the post season, a better overall team generally goes further, and on the stage of Super Bowl in the past 10+ years, better teams won more than better QBs, with Aaron Rodgers being an exception.

 

Pats need to learn from the lesson. Until they can go back to their old self they cannot win the big one again.

 

Even with Rodgers, the Packers' defense played well during that run. Same for Brees and the Saints, Brady and the Patriots' titles, and Manning's championship in '06, all backed by strong defense. 

 

I don't think Manning would be in such a harsh spotlight right now if Denver had made it closer or at least put up more than one TD. The one-sidedness of this loss is going to be the talking point for the Skip Bayless-es and other media donkeys of the world.

[tonychen]

Even with Rodgers, the Packers' defense played well during that run. Same for Brees and the Saints, Brady and the Patriots' titles, and Manning's championship in '06, all backed by strong defense. 

 

I don't think Manning would be in such a harsh spotlight right now if Denver had made it closer or at least put up more than one TD. The one-sidedness of this loss is going to be the talking point for the Skip Bayless-es and other media donkeys of the world.

 

The score was deceiving. The defense was constantly put into a bad spot due to turnovers and there were many points directly from INTs. The Denver team were not that bad, but they never got a chance to fight like a team largely due to Manning not being patient. Against Seahawks it is OK to slow the game down and it will take a lot of wrestling to win the game.

 

BTW Seattle players always played stronger and more excited than others all the time, especially yesterday. Don't know if they indeed had PED.

[tonychen]

Good post Tony.

 

The unfortunate part is that no one more than Peyton himself understands the acutely delicate balance between the team concept and the built-in credit/blame paradox that QBs live with. He's happy and able to shoulder the responsibility and provide the leadership and work ethic example that NFL QBs are expected to provide....but being the team sport that it is....he knows full well that 10 other offensive team mates and 52 other roster spots plus the coaches HAVE to do their jobs to win a football game, whether its preseason or the Super Bowl.

 

He knows this....its the media looking for a story and a whole lot of whipped-up fans who don't always get it.

 

I said in a post the other day that in almost every press conference he gives, he answers football questions about himself with the words "we", "us" and "team"....with the emphasis on TEAM.

 

And as GOPATS said...the regular season accolades do him no favors and probably fire up the opposition more than anything....especially a collection of nasty attitude-types like the Seahawks.

 

As much as he emphasizes team, it is not going to be a team as far as he is the actual OC on the field although he generally gets it done in the regular season.

 

It is not a coincidence that all teams Manning is on keeps declining on other phases. Before Manning this Broncos team was good enough to take NFL's biggest liability at QB to a playoff win. Now they are not very different from the old Colts. Maybe people are lazy and tend to rely on a "leader" when there is one.

 

BTW are you in PA? Me too and it is snowing heavily here.

[chad72]

What I am constantly seeing is that they are letting PI and holding go on a bit more in the playoffs than in the regular season consistently even with pass friendly rules across the league.

 

So, a team like the Broncos benefit from those rules during the regular season and since they don't have much of a plan B with their running game and D, the passing efficiency comes crashing down when the secondary is allowed to hold and mug more.  Instead of saving it for the playoffs, why not call the regular season with such similar rules too with consistency?

[-JJ-]

What I am constantly seeing is that they are letting PI and holding go on a bit more in the playoffs than in the regular season consistently even with pass friendly rules across the league.

 

So, a team like the Broncos benefit from those rules during the regular season and since they don't have much of a plan B with their running game and D, the passing efficiency comes crashing down when the secondary is allowed to hold and mug more.  Instead of saving it for the playoffs, why not call the regular season with such similar rules too with consistency?

Simple- no one has ever wanted the big games to be decided by a flag. True in all contact sports.

[chad72]

Simple- no one has ever wanted the big games to be decided by a flag. True in all contact sports.

 

Except for those phantom foul calls for Michael Jordan...

[tonychen]

What I am constantly seeing is that they are letting PI and holding go on a bit more in the playoffs than in the regular season consistently even with pass friendly rules across the league.

 

So, a team like the Broncos benefit from those rules during the regular season and since they don't have much of a plan B with their running game and D, the passing efficiency comes crashing down when the secondary is allowed to hold and mug more.  Instead of saving it for the playoffs, why not call the regular season with such similar rules too with consistency?

 

I wont blame the refs since it was pretty obvious in the entire playoff they let them play as they did not want to look like people sending some teams home. But Denver pretty much gave up the running game completely since they trailed 0-8, which against any decent defense would not work. It sounds crazy but playing Seattle you need to keep running even when you are going nowhere. Punt whenever you have to. All three teams beating them this yr did this.

[pacolts56]

As much as he emphasizes team, it is not going to be a team as far as he is the actual OC on the field although he generally gets it done in the regular season.

 

It is not a coincidence that all teams Manning is on keeps declining on other phases. Before Manning this Broncos team was good enough to take NFL's biggest liability at QB to a playoff win. Now they are not very different from the old Colts. Maybe people are lazy and tend to rely on a "leader" when there is one.

 

BTW are you in PA? Me too and it is snowing heavily here.

No...I'm in SoCal...65 and sunny!

 

But you raise a good point and it kind of syncs with what GOPATS was saying. Manning is so good as an "OC on the field" that there may not be the check and balance among the coaching staff that may be needed against playoff opposition.

 

What makes that even worse is that during the span of Manning's career, defenses have steadily adapted to more mobile, and now in some cases, free-wheeling QBs....leaving guys like Manning and Brady quite vulnerable if there are any deficiencies in their pass protection against those playoff defenses. Yesterday their timing was all fouled up.

 

In game-planning against Manning a defense can absolutely count on one thing without fail....Peyton will NOT beat them or move the chains with his legs. In the past that wasn't such a liability....these days, and at this point in a long career, it is.

[tonychen]

No...I'm in SoCal...65 and sunny!

 

But you raise a good point and it kind of syncs with what GOPATS was saying. Manning is so good as an "OC on the field" that there may not be the check and balance among the coaching staff that may be needed against playoff opposition.

 

What makes that even worse is that during the span of Manning's career, defenses have steadily adapted to more mobile, and now in some cases, free-wheeling QBs....leaving guys like Manning and Brady quite vulnerable if there are any deficiencies in their pass protection against those playoff defenses. Yesterday their timing was all fouled up.

 

In game-planning against Manning a defense can absolutely count on one thing without fail....Peyton will NOT beat them or move the chains with his legs. In the past that wasn't such a liability....these days, and at this point in a long career, it is.

 

Yes the mechanism of Manning's no-huddle offense pretty much determines it will be him VS the opposing defense. As he has been improving on the understanding of the game, his physical attributes are declining, while the defense are refreshing and improving all the time.

 

The dilemma is, for Manning and Brady type of pocket passers, the no-huddle puzzle game is the only mechanism that allows them to beat the opposing defense albeit their lack of athleticism. They are tall but slow, and not strong enough to withstand hit and interruption. These can be overcome in regular season but not in the postseason against very good teams.

[Superman]

I don't think what the media talks about has anything to do with what happens in the game. That game last night, if you even want to call it that, was about the Broncos not performing well, and the Seahawks pouncing on every opportunity they were given, like a pack of starving hyenas. It wasn't about Manning's legacy or how he's been viewed since he came into the league, it wasn't about his MVPs or records, and it wasn't about where he was drafted. 

 

Just give the Seahawks credit for an amazing performance. 

[tonychen]

a pack of starving hyenas... Great analogy! Which reminds me of PED...

 

 

 

I don't think what the media talks about has anything to do with what happens in the game. That game last night, if you even want to call it that, was about the Broncos not performing well, and the Seahawks pouncing on every opportunity they were given, like a pack of starving hyenas. It wasn't about Manning's legacy or how he's been viewed since he came into the league, it wasn't about his MVPs or records, and it wasn't about where he was drafted. 

 

Just give the Seahawks credit for an amazing performance. 

[seeblu]

As much as he emphasizes team, it is not going to be a team as far as he is the actual OC on the field although he generally gets it done in the regular season.

 

It is not a coincidence that all teams Manning is on keeps declining on other phases. Before Manning this Broncos team was good enough to take NFL's biggest liability at QB to a playoff win. Now they are not very different from the old Colts. Maybe people are lazy and tend to rely on a "leader" when there is one.

 

 

 

Peyton wants the attention and he gets it.  He's a great QB, one of the best.  But Peyton wants all the credit for the teams success.  All the running up behind the center to point out some player on the other line of scrimmage is all about getting the attention.  He keeps O linemen holding in 3 point stances while he does all this, which is not pleasant if you're a 300lb player.  QB's on other teams will do something similar maybe twice a game, and if a CB is obviously planning to rush the QB, the RB is just shifted to the other side of the QB.  You may not agree, and that's OK.  Take a shot at me if you will, that's OK.  But this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. 

 

The year the Colts won the SB, MJD ran for what, 175 yds on our run D.  Our run D was consistently poor and our running game was just good enough to keep the other D honest.  Then we get to the SB and there is a complete turnaround.  We stopped the Bear running game, which no one expected.  Edge and 'Nique, (Dominick Rhodes) ran all over the Bear D.  Peyton was not the star of that Super Bowl, Edge and Nique were. 

[tonychen]

Peyton wants the attention and he gets it.  He's a great QB, one of the best.  But Peyton wants all the credit for the teams success.  All the running up behind the center to point out some player on the other line of scrimmage is all about getting the attention.  He keeps O linemen holding in 3 point stances while he does all this, which is not pleasant if you're a 300lb player.  QB's on other teams will do something similar maybe twice a game, and if a CB is obviously planning to rush the QB, the RB is just shifted to the other side of the QB.  You may not agree, and that's OK.  Take a shot at me if you will, that's OK.  But this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. 

 

The year the Colts won the SB, MJD ran for what, 175 yds on our run D.  Our run D was consistently poor and our running game was just good enough to keep the other D honest.  Then we get to the SB and there is a complete turnaround.  We stopped the Bear running game, which no one expected.  Edge and 'Nique, (Dominick Rhodes) ran all over the Bear D.  Peyton was not the star of that Super Bowl, Edge and Nique were. 

 

Not Edge, it was Addai. And I agree that year Colts had a better team and they played like a team. Manning was not the superstar in that Super Bowl run. And luckily Chargers got knocked out.

[MAC]

Peyton wants the attention and he gets it.  He's a great QB, one of the best.  But Peyton wants all the credit for the teams success.  All the running up behind the center to point out some player on the other line of scrimmage is all about getting the attention.  He keeps O linemen holding in 3 point stances while he does all this, which is not pleasant if you're a 300lb player.  QB's on other teams will do something similar maybe twice a game, and if a CB is obviously planning to rush the QB, the RB is just shifted to the other side of the QB.  You may not agree, and that's OK.  Take a shot at me if you will, that's OK.  But this is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. 

 

The year the Colts won the SB, MJD ran for what, 175 yds on our run D.  Our run D was consistently poor and our running game was just good enough to keep the other D honest.  Then we get to the SB and there is a complete turnaround.  We stopped the Bear running game, which no one expected.  Edge and 'Nique, (Dominick Rhodes) ran all over the Bear D.  Peyton was not the star of that Super Bowl, Edge and Nique were. 

People impose a view on something because that's the way that they look at the world. IE: Assuming that everyone they talk to is lying because they are incapable of telling the truth themselves.

 

 Peyton doesn't do all that because he "wants attention". He does all that to put his team in the best position to win. Legendary QBs and coaches look at it and credit him with re-defining the position of QB, shifting the entire focus of the sport as others attempted to copy him. You in turn ascribe an incredibly juvenile and petty motivation to Peyton's actions. Why is that?