By a Pats Fan - Advanced NFL Stats: The Myth of Playoff Peyton ,he's one of the best playoff QBs of this generation.

[Jules]

Very similar to the USA olympics dream team practise in 1992. All the HOFs ( 11 of them in the same team ) were practising and at that time it was all Larry and Magic. MJ beat both of them and after end of practise said, there is a new sheriff in town.

 

I like your thought process here.....

 

If we go to NE I think it would be very fitting if somehow the game ends up being decided by Adam Vinatieri with the stellar year he is having. If it's snowing then all the better. I ain't afraid of no snow.

 

If it's in Denver I have a hunch that with all this time off for Wes Welker that he is going to drop a KEY pass or mess up in the clutch somehow.

 

 

I guess we'll see. Playoffs start sooner then later now. Lets all get ready to rumble!!!

[Guest vanqos]

My goodness. Did you intend to make your post so ironic (or arrogant, or condescending, or disingenuous, or inaccurate)? It seems like every defect that you rudely ascribe to us is actually seeping from your pores onto the keyboard. Perhaps it's not intentional. Maybe you were inadvertently blinded by your "Tom Brady signature eyebrow extenders".

 

I'm not going to debate the QBs with you, just point out that ALL fan bases avidly defend their players with the vehemence of a political or religious debate. There are never any winners, and the entire exercise is pointless. The fact remains, however, that this is a Colts board. If you "don't know why Pats fans try to defend Brady on here", then pray tell why are you doing exactly that?

 

I would imagine that Brady is defended just as vociferously on Pats boards, but I can't know that for sure because I've never visited one in my life. What would be the point, and why are you here - unless you are every bit as insecure and resentful as you imagine Peyton's fans to be - unable to resist coming here to seek approval and validation for your treasured hero, and so intolerant of the criticism that you had to sign up and respond. Do you imagine that you've taken the high-road? You missed your exit by several thousand miles.

 

 

Nice try, MAC, but I’m a Patriots fan first and always will be, not just a fan of an individual player.  Same thing can be said for most Patriots fans.  I’m sure there are some “fans” that became fans in 2001 and will exit the minute Brady and Belichick hang it up and there’s a losing season, but those are exceptions, not the rule.

On Patriots boards, people criticize Brady when he has a bad game or makes a bad play.  There were even a lot of “Is Brady all done?” threads by normally rational posters when he was struggling to find chemistry with his receivers the first half of the season.

 

Compare that to some Colts and bandwagon Broncos fans.  There were actually Colts fans on this board during the Broncos/Colts week saying either they were torn on which team they wanted to win, or were going to root for the Broncos.  If Brady was traded to another team and we faced his team, most fans wouldn’t be torn at all since he’d be on a new team, and the bandwagon fans would be long gone anyway.

 

That’s the difference between being just a fan of an individual player and being a fan of a team.  I like watching Brady and am a fan of his, but even though I don’t root for Peyton, I can openly admit he’s on Brady’s level.  Unfortunately, a lot of Peyton fans are so obsessed with Peyton, and in some cases switched fanbases and started watching the Broncos, that they’re threatened by Brady’s mere presence in the league.  It’s not enough that Peyton gets his press; it’s that he’s the only one who gets the press and that he can do no wrong on the field.  That’s what I mean when I refer to the sick obsession some of his fans, analysts and announcers have with him.  A poster on here was * that some people in the media think Brady is worthy of MVP votes.  Peyton’s going to win the MVP going away, and deservingly so, but he’s so bitter that Brady’s found success in the second half and wants Peyton to win unanimously. 

 

I’ll openly admit that I wouldn’t even be discussing this topic at all, or on this board, if I didn’t have respect for Peyton.  It’s some of his fans and the media that I get a laugh out of.  If he never takes another snap in his life, he’s still one of the greatest QBs ever to play.  I personally don’t think there’s a unanimous GOAT or ever will be like there is with Michael Jordan and basketball.  There’s a short list of the all-time greatest and from there it’s just opinion.  You put a bunch of people in a room and everyone’s going to have differing viewpoints. 

 

Btw, I don’t mean to sound like I’m taking jabs at ALL Peyton fans.  I realize there are fans of his on this board included who appreciate what he did for the Colts but realize he had and has flaws.  I’m more talking about the intention of the original post, to desperately try to say “Hey, see, someone who claims he’s a Pats fan used sabremetrics to justify Peyton’s playoff record” and people like Jim Nantz, of whom there are several dozen.  Remember John Madden with Brett Favre?  That’s what a lot of the football media and his fans sound like to non-Peyton fans.  

 

As for the playoffs, I don't think there's a clear favorite in the AFC.  The only team I don't see having a chance of making the SB is the Dolphins if they won the 6 seed.  Yes, I realize they beat the Pats but that was in Miami and they've struggled in Miami even back in the 01-04 days.  Pats/Broncos/Colts/Chiefs/Bengals/Chargers/Ravens are all capable of winning 2 or 3 games to get to the SB.

[braveheartcolt]

Nice try, MAC, but I’m a Patriots fan first and always will be, not just a fan of an individual player.  Same thing can be said for most Patriots fans.  I’m sure there are some “fans” that became fans in 2001 and will exit the minute Brady and Belichick hang it up and there’s a losing season, but those are exceptions, not the rule.

On Patriots boards, people criticize Brady when he has a bad game or makes a bad play.  There were even a lot of “Is Brady all done?” threads by normally rational posters when he was struggling to find chemistry with his receivers the first half of the season.

 

Compare that to some Colts and bandwagon Broncos fans.  There were actually Colts fans on this board during the Broncos/Colts week saying either they were torn on which team they wanted to win, or were going to root for the Broncos.  If Brady was traded to another team and we faced his team, most fans wouldn’t be torn at all since he’d be on a new team, and the bandwagon fans would be long gone anyway.

 

That’s the difference between being just a fan of an individual player and being a fan of a team.  I like watching Brady and am a fan of his, but even though I don’t root for Peyton, I can openly admit he’s on Brady’s level.  Unfortunately, a lot of Peyton fans are so obsessed with Peyton, and in some cases switched fanbases and started watching the Broncos, that they’re threatened by Brady’s mere presence in the league.  It’s not enough that Peyton gets his press; it’s that he’s the only one who gets the press and that he can do no wrong on the field.  That’s what I mean when I refer to the sick obsession some of his fans, analysts and announcers have with him.  A poster on here was * that some people in the media think Brady is worthy of MVP votes.  Peyton’s going to win the MVP going away, and deservingly so, but he’s so bitter that Brady’s found success in the second half and wants Peyton to win unanimously. 

 

I’ll openly admit that I wouldn’t even be discussing this topic at all, or on this board, if I didn’t have respect for Peyton.  It’s some of his fans and the media that I get a laugh out of.  If he never takes another snap in his life, he’s still one of the greatest QBs ever to play.  I personally don’t think there’s a unanimous GOAT or ever will be like there is with Michael Jordan and basketball.  There’s a short list of the all-time greatest and from there it’s just opinion.  You put a bunch of people in a room and everyone’s going to have differing viewpoints. 

 

Btw, I don’t mean to sound like I’m taking jabs at ALL Peyton fans.  I realize there are fans of his on this board included who appreciate what he did for the Colts but realize he had and has flaws.  I’m more talking about the intention of the original post, to desperately try to say “Hey, see, someone who claims he’s a Pats fan used sabremetrics to justify Peyton’s playoff record” and people like Jim Nantz, of whom there are several dozen.  Remember John Madden with Brett Favre?  That’s what a lot of the football media and his fans sound like to non-Peyton fans.  

 

As for the playoffs, I don't think there's a clear favorite in the AFC.  The only team I don't see having a chance of making the SB is the Dolphins if they won the 6 seed.  Yes, I realize they beat the Pats but that was in Miami and they've struggled in Miami even back in the 01-04 days.  Pats/Broncos/Colts/Chiefs/Bengals/Chargers/Ravens are all capable of winning 2 or 3 games to get to the SB.

Brady has his 'fans' as well. Do not be so arrogant to think this is a Peyton phenomenon only. It's an American sport trait. Probably due to the college / draft element. Whilst I don't agree with it (brought up with soccer, where rarely do fans put ANY player before a team), it is just a personal opinion which people are free to follow.  You make it sound like a crime, or  you are just trying to put your team on a pedestal by taking the moral high ground.  

[shecolt]

Nice try, MAC, but I’m a Patriots fan first and always will be, not just a fan of an individual player.  Same thing can be said for most Patriots fans.  I’m sure there are some “fans” that became fans in 2001 and will exit the minute Brady and Belichick hang it up and there’s a losing season, but those are exceptions, not the rule.

On Patriots boards, people criticize Brady when he has a bad game or makes a bad play.  There were even a lot of “Is Brady all done?” threads by normally rational posters when he was struggling to find chemistry with his receivers the first half of the season.

 

Compare that to some Colts and bandwagon Broncos fans.  There were actually Colts fans on this board during the Broncos/Colts week saying either they were torn on which team they wanted to win, or were going to root for the Broncos.  If Brady was traded to another team and we faced his team, most fans wouldn’t be torn at all since he’d be on a new team, and the bandwagon fans would be long gone anyway.

 

That’s the difference between being just a fan of an individual player and being a fan of a team.  I like watching Brady and am a fan of his, but even though I don’t root for Peyton, I can openly admit he’s on Brady’s level.  Unfortunately, a lot of Peyton fans are so obsessed with Peyton, and in some cases switched fanbases and started watching the Broncos, that they’re threatened by Brady’s mere presence in the league.  It’s not enough that Peyton gets his press; it’s that he’s the only one who gets the press and that he can do no wrong on the field.  That’s what I mean when I refer to the sick obsession some of his fans, analysts and announcers have with him.  A poster on here was * that some people in the media think Brady is worthy of MVP votes.  Peyton’s going to win the MVP going away, and deservingly so, but he’s so bitter that Brady’s found success in the second half and wants Peyton to win unanimously. 

 

I’ll openly admit that I wouldn’t even be discussing this topic at all, or on this board, if I didn’t have respect for Peyton.  It’s some of his fans and the media that I get a laugh out of.  If he never takes another snap in his life, he’s still one of the greatest QBs ever to play.  I personally don’t think there’s a unanimous GOAT or ever will be like there is with Michael Jordan and basketball.  There’s a short list of the all-time greatest and from there it’s just opinion.  You put a bunch of people in a room and everyone’s going to have differing viewpoints. 

 

Btw, I don’t mean to sound like I’m taking jabs at ALL Peyton fans.  I realize there are fans of his on this board included who appreciate what he did for the Colts but realize he had and has flaws.  I’m more talking about the intention of the original post, to desperately try to say “Hey, see, someone who claims he’s a Pats fan used sabremetrics to justify Peyton’s playoff record” and people like Jim Nantz, of whom there are several dozen.  Remember John Madden with Brett Favre?  That’s what a lot of the football media and his fans sound like to non-Peyton fans.  

 

As for the playoffs, I don't think there's a clear favorite in the AFC.  The only team I don't see having a chance of making the SB is the Dolphins if they won the 6 seed.  Yes, I realize they beat the Pats but that was in Miami and they've struggled in Miami even back in the 01-04 days.  Pats/Broncos/Colts/Chiefs/Bengals/Chargers/Ravens are all capable of winning 2 or 3 games to get to the SB.

 

For years, I have had to read posts on Colt's boards made by Patriot fans to tell us how much better Brady and the Patriots are than Peyton and the Colts.  One board became so overran with Patriot fans that it no longer exists due to a mass exodus by Colt's fans who were sick of it. 

 

I have listened to Patriot fans who give Brady all the credit for 3 SBs and no blame for 2 SBs.

 

I recently read a thread on a Patriot forum where Patriot fans are taking shots at Peyton and expressing their displeasure and bitterness with him breaking the TD record.

 

And, now you are here to tell us how much better Patriot fans are than Colt fans???  That's disgusting. 

[Guest vanqos]

I can't speak for other Pats fans that have been on Colts boards.  I notice some people here like you said are here to debate who's better but my point was that most Pats fans in general are Pats fans first, Brady fans second.  If anything, the untouchable to some Pats fans is Belichick.  If you insist that he goes on the cheap when signing players or that he hasn't won anything without a young, hungrier Brady, really good defense with veteran leadership and an all-around great team and that he's been outcoached by Tom Coughlin in 2 SBs, you'll be sent to the practice squad in one particular forum.

 

I think honestly the disdain for Peyton with some Patriots fans stems from a couple things: 1.)The same thing some Colts fans have, insecurity that there's another all-time great out there.  2.)The media overexposure and excuses.

 

Ironically, I think the media thing hurts him more than it helps him.  They build him up to be something that no athlete could ever be, and then anything short of winning it all and he comes off as a choker.  Sometimes he's made bad plays that directly impacted the game, other times his team was just outplayed.  I also think because of the overexposure, a lot of people who aren't his fans tune in and look forward to watching him fail in the playoffs.

 

If he was just given as much attention as a Brady/Brees/Rodgers and his fans weren't as adamant, he'd probably be looked at as what he should be looked at: An all-time great QB with a SB ring.  Rodgers has had problems in the 4th quarter during close games for example, and no one says anything.  So I think the same media that overpraises him is his enemy.

 

That's just my two cents anyway.

 

Personally I think it's Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Brees in no particular order then everyone else.  There are several other good qbs out there, but those are the only elite and only HOF level, at least at this point. 

[Susie Q]

I can't speak for other Pats fans that have been on Colts boards.  I notice some people here like you said are here to debate who's better but my point was that most Pats fans in general are Pats fans first, Brady fans second.  If anything, the untouchable to some Pats fans is Belichick.  If you insist that he goes on the cheap when signing players or that he hasn't won anything without a young, hungrier Brady, really good defense with veteran leadership and an all-around great team and that he's been outcoached by Tom Coughlin in 2 SBs, you'll be sent to the practice squad in one particular forum.

 

I think honestly the disdain for Peyton with some Patriots fans stems from a couple things: 1.)The same thing some Colts fans have, insecurity that there's another all-time great out there.  2.)The media overexposure and excuses.

 

Ironically, I think the media thing hurts him more than it helps him.  They build him up to be something that no athlete could ever be, and then anything short of winning it all and he comes off as a choker.  Sometimes he's made bad plays that directly impacted the game, other times his team was just outplayed.  I also think because of the overexposure, a lot of people who aren't his fans tune in and look forward to watching him fail in the playoffs.

 

If he was just given as much attention as a Brady/Brees/Rodgers and his fans weren't as adamant, he'd probably be looked at as what he should be looked at: An all-time great QB with a SB ring.  Rodgers has had problems in the 4th quarter during close games for example, and no one says anything.  So I think the same media that overpraises him is his enemy.

 

That's just my two cents anyway.

 

Personally I think it's Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Brees in no particular order then everyone else.  There are several other good qbs out there, but those are the only elite and only HOF level, at least at this point. 

Thank you for such a great post. 

[amfootball]

Like I said, Brady can get away with 1 TD performances, or multiple turnover performances in the playoffs. Aside from '06, that isn't even close to the case with Manning. 

A QBs ability to lead scoring drives is the true measure of his performance not TD passes. The Pats rushed for many TDs the champ years.

 

And remind me again what happened in 2006? And Brady has never had a post-season with 3 tds to 7 picks and won a ring.

 

Manning has not been as good siutationally as Brady in the post-season. Six fourth quarter comebacks/GW drives to one. It is what it is.

[Shane Bond]

A QBs ability to lead scoring drives is the true measure of his performance not TD passes. The Pats rushed for many TDs the champ years.

 

And remind me again what happened in 2006? And Brady has never had a post-season with 3 tds to 7 picks and won a ring.

 

Manning has not been as good siutationally as Brady in the post-season. Six fourth quarter comebacks/GW drives to one. It is what it is.

 

Crediting QB for a rushing TD is beyond me. Feel bad for those hard working RBs.

 

Yeah video camera , tuck rule, great defense, belichick. It is what it is.

[amfootball]

Crediting QB for a rushing TD is beyond me. Feel bad for those hard working RBs.

 

Yeah video camera , tuck rule, great defense, belichick. It is what it is.

Not the rushing TD itself but the drive. Qb is about leading the offense to points and if a RB runs it in from the 1 or 2 yard line then it was still the QB that engineered the drive.

[Shane Bond]

Not the rushing TD itself but the drive. Qb is about leading the offense to points and if a RB runs it in from the 1 or 2 yard line then it was still the QB that engineered the drive.

Thats right, QB engineered the hole too. We can send all the OL home.

[amfootball]

Thats right, QB engineered the hole too. We can send all the OL home.

OL blocks for the TD passes as well. Not really that different.

[Shane Bond]

OL blocks for the TD passes as well. Not really that different.

 

We are specifically talking about rushing TDs. There is a reason rushing TDs are counted to the RBs not QB. QB has nothing to do with other than handing over the ball, its the OL and RBs who make it happen.

 

Lets give credit where its due.

[amfootball]

We are specifically talking about rushing TDs. There is a reason rushing TDs are counted to the RBs not QB. QB has nothing to do with other than handing over the ball, its the OL and RBs who make it happen.

 

Lets give credit where its due.

Not disagreeing. TD itself belongs to the RB. But if the QB passes the ball down the field and then the RB runs it in from the 1 or 2 then the QB deserves credit for the drive itself as his job is to lead the offense to points. Same for a FG. QB leads the drive for the points but the three is credited to the kicker as it should be.

 

I am talking about looking a little deeper than just who scores the TD or the points in terms of the FG.

[Shane Bond]

Patriots won the SBs with great defense, great OL, good RBs, great coach, tuck rule, video camera and a system QB.

 

We take out, defense, tule rule, video camera and RB, no SB for last 10 years.

[braveheartcolt]

I can assure you that Mr Tom Brady receives just as many excuses when he loses as Mr Manning. Unfortunately, the majority of Patriots homers refuse to see that. Blinded by his beautiful looks no doubt. It really is starting to get irritating, even although we know they are just trolling, as no one could really believe all this crap.

[Shane Bond]

Not disagreeing. TD itself belongs to the RB. But if the QB passes the ball down the field and then the RB runs it in from the 1 or 2 then the QB deserves credit for the drive itself as his job is to lead the offense to points. Same for a FG. QB leads the drive for the points but the three is credited to the kicker as it should be.

 

I am talking about looking a little deeper than just who scores the TD or the points in terms of the FG.

 

Yes, got to give credit where it is. FG, there is a reason kicker gets credit coz he kicks it and the QB could not "engineer" the drive beyond that point.

 

Passing the ball and having a TD, credit goes to QB.

[amfootball]

Yes, got to give credit where it is. FG, there is a reason kicker gets credit coz he kicks it and the QB could not "engineer" the drive beyond that point.

 

Passing the ball and having a TD, credit goes to QB.

Good we agree.

[Shane Bond]

Good we agree.

Did we?. lol

[amfootball]

I can assure you that Mr Tom Brady receives just as many excuses when he loses as Mr Manning. Unfortunately, the majority of Patriots homers refuse to see that. Blinded by his beautiful looks no doubt. It really is starting to get irritating, even although we know they are just trolling, as no one could really believe all this crap.

You know who gets  more of a pass then either one? Drew Brees. He has had some real clunkers this season and no one says boo. They blame it on the fact that he is not in the dome. I really hope Manning breaks his yardage record tomorrow. I think he needs like 250.

[amfootball]

Did we?. lol

In my mind. yes. ;)

[Shane Bond]

You know who gets  more of a pass then either one? Drew Brees. He has had some real clunkers this season and no one says boo. They blame it on the fact that he is not in the dome. I really hope Manning breaks his yardage record tomorrow. I think he needs like 250.

Now you are talking

[House]

This board is occupied by a fair amount of masochists it seems.

[Gramz]

Word of the Day  

 

in·cor·ri·gi·ble

inˈkôrijəbəl,-ˈkär-/

adjective

 

1. 1.

   (of a person or their tendencies) not able to be corrected, improved, or reformed.

   "she's an incorrigible flirt"

   synonyms: inveterate, habitual, confirmed, hardened, dyed-in-the-wool, incurable,chronic, irredeemable, hopeless, beyond hope; 

[Guest vanqos]

Personally, not to get off-topic, but I think Belichick gets way too much credit from the local media and a lot of Pats fans.  It's like he can do no wrong as a coach or with personnel decisions because of championships he won 10 years ago with a younger yet more feisty Brady; a great defense that while it had no HOFers, had tons of veteran leadership and a chip on their shoulder; and one of the best kickers of all time.  Like I've said, they were the ultimate "team" and I don't think I'll ever have as much fun watching another sports team in my life again.

 

Since then, he's been outcoached in all of his final games of the season, sometimes even by inferior teams.  He's also way more arrogant than he was back in the dynasty days (kicking to Peyton in overtime when a TD wins the game and you don't get the ball back), buys into his own press and goes on the cheap with players.  Basically, if your name isn't Tom Brady, your job isn't secure no matter how well you've performed.  I really wouldn't be surprised if he low-balled Julian Edelman in the off-season.

 

Yet most of the local media and talk-shows talk about him as if everything he touches turns into gold.  Even the year Brady went down, it was the same team that went 16-0 the year before with plenty of talent, and Cassel while not elite was serviceable. 

 

Local sportscasters aren't afraid to call out Brady when he makes a bad play or has a bad game, and he's more than willing to admit when he has a bad game.  I remember after the Ravens AFC title game, he was being interviewed on live TV and said "I svcked today but luckily the team picked me up."

 

With Belichick, they say things like "You can't argue with his 3 rings and 2 rings with the giants as a defensive coordinator."  He completely gets a free pass other than from one or two reporters that have hated him from day one.

 

I've been warned in Pats forums for questioning in-game and personel moves that he makes.  Brady, yeah there are some fan-boys, but most fans that I know love him but aren't afraid to criticize him.

[indycrazy1887]

Why would Pats fans have any insecurity regarding the post-season? We don't need to "explain" any of Brady's games.

You don't neeed to, but you could explain bradys tuck rule game? Hahaha cuz that was some big bulls***

[amfootball]

You don't neeed to, but you could explain bradys tuck rule game? Hahaha cuz that was some big bulls***

The rule was called correctly in the game but I am the first to admit that I had never heard of it before even though it apparently had been called several times that very season and had been called the same way it was in the snow bowl game. But I think my favorite part besides Vinny hitting that immaculate FG in a blizzard to tie the game was the fact that it sent Jon Gruden out of Oakland to Tampa and the Raiders have been a joke ever since. ;)

[bayone]

The rule was called correctly in the game but I am the first to admit that I had never heard of it before even though it apparently had been called several times that very season and had been called the same way it was in the snow bowl game. But I think my favorite part besides Vinny hitting that immaculate FG in a blizzard to tie the game was the fact that it sent Jon Gruden out of Oakland to Tampa and the Raiders have been a joke ever since. ;)

 

 

I should of known  i would start something crazy with many off taangent comments & unending when I started this topic

 

everyone enjoy your Sunday

[Surge89]

I appreciate you taking the time to put that all down and to keep it to football but honestly your take on Brady is very skewed. The guy was a sixth round pick and the fourth QB on the Pats roster and most thought would be cut in 2000. Not only did he not get cut he rose two spots to be Bledsoe's back up which is significant because the Pats had signed Damon Huard to a one million dollar after his success backing up Marino in Miami. And then we find out years later from Bill that Brady was actually challenging Bledsoe for the starting spot and would have supplanted him even if Drew did not get injured in the 2001 season.

 

You seem to want to lay an awful lot at Bill's feet for the success of Brady and the Pats. And he has no doubt been instrumental in their success and longevity but he was on the hot seat in 2001. He came to NE with a sub par .500 record in Cleveland and one playoff appearance and one win. His first season in NE was a disaster. He went 5-11 in 2000. Then 2001 began with two losses to the horrible Bengals and Jets. Brady steps in and the team goes 14-3 right to the Super Bowl and Bill becomes the genius. For sure Bill did his share but honestly the weapons Brady was working with on the offensive side were average to below average - probably the worst set of skill guys combined with a sixth round pick at QB to ever win the bowl. Brown was the only legit receiver and Terry Glenn who most forget did not play that season when Brady came on because of a dispute with the team over his contract. So Brady didn't even have him. And the defense was the classic bend don't break which certainly stepped up in the post-season but was not great in the regular season which is why Brady had the comebacks.

 

In terms of Manning. I am not sure I get your point with the cap. Manning did have his big contracts but he was also surrounded with HoF talent on the offensive side and some pretty stout defensive players in Freeney, Mathas and Sanders among others. Those Colts teams were plenty good enough to win more championships but often got outperformed in the playoffs. I do think Manning gets more blame then he deserves for all the losses but like I had said in a previous post when you come in as the first pick with the football pedigree you are expected to carry the team to the championships especially when you have the talent Manning had year after year. And it is for this reason that I think if both Luck and Wilson win rings in the next few years, maybe even this year for Wilson, then Luck will have done what he was supposed to do and Wilson will get more accolades for coming out of nowhere to win a ring. That is just the way it works. It is unfair on one hand but human nature on the other.

 

In terms of your last point, not sure if you realize that Brady is top 5 in most QB categories this season. That is stunning. He did began slow given all the new guys but for him to have turned it around and be among the best Qbs THIS season is monstrous and can't be emphasized enough. The Pats defense was good the first few games but then it got injured and it has been Brady and the O carrying it since then with 5 fourth quarter/game winning drives.

 

In terms of Manning, he has had a historic season. His team is volumes better then Brady's right now. It is not even close. We will see how it all pans out but suffice to say both QBs will have to play well for their teams to have a chance. And really that has always been the case in the post-season.

 

 

How is my take on Brady skewed?

 

Of course I put alot of the TEAM success on BB. HE HAD NO QB IN CLEVELAND.  HE HAD BLEDSOE THEN BRADY IN NE.  And his Defences ALWAYS delivered.  Quit trying to diminish BB for the sake of Brady.  BB has done miracles with yalls roster and defensive schemes.  To say he hasn't is just hogwash and evident you are blindly trying to find any excuse you can for the "golden boy".  It has been evident across years and years of football that every great QB has had a Great and inventive HC.  It just goes hand in hand. Montana and Walsh, Staubach and Landry, and on and on and on.  You know who the exception to that rule is?  Manning and ? Caldwell? Dungy? Mora? please.

 

The fact that you don't see why the cap has such a huge impact is laughable. Manning had a huge CAP HIT.  So lets make it very detailed so you understand the depth of what it means to have millions invested in one player or skill players.  When your team has **** tons of money invested in skill players, your team has no depth, no talent, no skill at pretty much any other position than what is invested in.  01-04 Patriots teams were very very deep teams that may not have had all star talent but 53 talented dudes compared to 5 talented offensive players is ... kinda obvious as to who has the edge no?  5 players don't make a team.  A TEAM makes a TEAM.  THAT is why those Patriots teams had a dynasty.  They got the perfect storm.  They found a talent in Brady coupled with his no cost contract and a deep team they had much success.  In no way am I saying Brady was "just along for the ride", but you cannot deny that the Patriot organization and HOF coach gave him the simply perfect scenario to succeed and it just was the cherry on the top that he turned out to be one of the greatest QB's of all time.  Also lets go over your defensive "talent" he supposedly had.  Sanders?  an oft injured Safety who could lay the big hit, but couldn't roam the field...  A one dimensional player...  Freeney?  A great pass rusher yes in a flawed defensive scheme that didn't capitalize on his talents and he couldn't stop the run to save his life... again a one dimensional player...  Mathis I will give you even though he wasn't the all star Mathis until about his 3rd or 4th year.  Your allusion to Luck and Wilson is laughable as well.  They didn't cost their team 15 to 20 million a year. I'm trying to grasp if you even read my post?

 

Wait a minute how am I not seeing that he isn't top 5 statistically this season?  I even commended him on it.  Given that though you can not tell me he was performing so great when he threw for less than a 100 yards in a half.  He flat out wasn't performing and a whole bunch of that was due to his inexperienced receivers... which is what I said originally.  If you would go back and actually read what I put, I stated that this year is a MICROCOSM of what their careers have been because of the state of the teams, not the performance of the QBs.  The QBs perform no matter that isn't the point.

 

You state that the Bronco's are a much better team no arguement... how exactly?  Have you seen their defense?  When is the last time someone put 35 up on the Pats?  EVEN WITH ALL OF YALLS INJURIES????  The Bronco's team is inflated due to Manning just like when he was in Indy.  The fact remains Manning has never  had and never will have the same support that Brady has had.  In fact like ANY all time great has had.  The fact Manning is regarded as one of the best of all time speaks volumes to me when he UNLIKE all the others has had horrible HC's, terrible organizational direction, and played in the salary cap era in which he had nothing but big huge contracts his whole career, is downright amazing.  

[amfootball]

How is my take on Brady skewed?

 

Of course I put alot of the TEAM success on BB. HE HAD NO QB IN CLEVELAND.  HE HAD BLEDSOE THEN BRADY IN NE.  And his Defences ALWAYS delivered.  Quit trying to diminish BB for the sake of Brady.  BB has done miracles with yalls roster and defensive schemes.  To say he hasn't is just hogwash and evident you are blindly trying to find any excuse you can for the "golden boy".  It has been evident across years and years of football that every great QB has had a Great and inventive HC.  It just goes hand in hand. Montana and Walsh, Staubach and Landry, and on and on and on.  You know who the exception to that rule is?  Manning and ? Caldwell? Dungy? Mora? please.

 

The fact that you don't see why the cap has such a huge impact is laughable. Manning had a huge CAP HIT.  So lets make it very detailed so you understand the depth of what it means to have millions invested in one player or skill players.  When your team has **** tons of money invested in skill players, your team has no depth, no talent, no skill at pretty much any other position than what is invested in.  01-04 Patriots teams were very very deep teams that may not have had all star talent but 53 talented dudes compared to 5 talented offensive players is ... kinda obvious as to who has the edge no?  5 players don't make a team.  A TEAM makes a TEAM.  THAT is why those Patriots teams had a dynasty.  They got the perfect storm.  They found a talent in Brady coupled with his no cost contract and a deep team they had much success.  In no way am I saying Brady was "just along for the ride", but you cannot deny that the Patriot organization and HOF coach gave him the simply perfect scenario to succeed and it just was the cherry on the top that he turned out to be one of the greatest QB's of all time.  Also lets go over your defensive "talent" he supposedly had.  Sanders?  an oft injured Safety who could lay the big hit, but couldn't roam the field...  A one dimensional player...  Freeney?  A great pass rusher yes in a flawed defensive scheme that didn't capitalize on his talents and he couldn't stop the run to save his life... again a one dimensional player...  Mathis I will give you even though he wasn't the all star Mathis until about his 3rd or 4th year.  Your allusion to Luck and Wilson is laughable as well.  They didn't cost their team 15 to 20 million a year. I'm trying to grasp if you even read my post?

 

Wait a minute how am I not seeing that he isn't top 5 statistically this season?  I even commended him on it.  Given that though you can not tell me he was performing so great when he threw for less than a 100 yards in a half.  He flat out wasn't performing and a whole bunch of that was due to his inexperienced receivers... which is what I said originally.  If you would go back and actually read what I put, I stated that this year is a MICROCOSM of what their careers have been because of the state of the teams, not the performance of the QBs.  The QBs perform no matter that isn't the point.

 

You state that the Bronco's are a much better team no arguement... how exactly?  Have you seen their defense?  When is the last time someone put 35 up on the Pats?  EVEN WITH ALL OF YALLS INJURIES????  The Bronco's team is inflated due to Manning just like when he was in Indy.  The fact remains Manning has never  had and never will have the same support that Brady has had.  In fact like ANY all time great has had.  The fact Manning is regarded as one of the best of all time speaks volumes to me when he UNLIKE all the others has had horrible HC's, terrible organizational direction, and played in the salary cap era in which he had nothing but big huge contracts his whole career, is downright amazing.  

No time to respond to all of this but normally you have balanced postings not sure what happened here but you act like someone held a gun to Manning's head to take all the that money and then conveniently ignore the fact that Brady just signed an unprecedented $24 million dollar three year contract this past-offseason to help the team build a contender which is exactly what he did in 2005 after winning his third Super Bowl - took $10 mil/per year over six years which was 30 percent under market value at the time.

 

So really by your reasoning Manning is the one most responsible for his unbalanced teams and lack of championship runs.

[Guest vanqos]

Not to get into this too much, but it's a team effort all around for any quarterback, including regular season passing stats.  Quarterbacks don't pass to themselves; they have receivers that catch the ball, lines that block for them, receivers that make blocks.  It isn't like basketball where if a player takes a shot and makes it and scores 30 points, it's directly tied to him.

 

So giving Peyton so much credit for his regular season passing statistics is doing a disservice to all the people he's had catching the ball.  Same for Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or any other great quarterback.  

 

What makes Colts fans and Manning fan boys funny, and why I posted on here in the first place, is that you'd think that he was the only one on the field, completely responsible for his regular season stats, then when he loses in the playoffs, which like I said is sometimes directly related to bad play on his part, other times just being outplayed by the other team, it's everyone else's fault.  Even Broncos fans do that, blaming Rahim Moore, when it was ultimately Manning that threw the game-sealing INT that put the Ravens in FG range to win the game.

 

Let's just enjoy this era of quarterbacks without getting into little school girl like arguments about who's better when it can't be answered.  You can say that Tom Brady is better than Jason Campbell, or that Peyton Manning is better than Matt Schuab, but when you have two all-time greats, the rest is just semantics, and trying to overplay other players on the team's contribution, or downplay the importance of other players on the team, or pinning regular season stats or wins on the quarterback alone is just pathetic.

 

I don't think Colts fans on here realize how bad they sound when they try to do a disservice to Brady by making the 01-04 defense sound like the 85 bears or making Belichick sound like Vince Lombardi.  Colts fans are going to naturally side with Peyton and Patriots fans are going to side with Brady, but that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that the opposing quarterback is on the same level.  When you don't, no matter which team you root for, you just lose credibility.

[Surge89]

No time to respond to all of this but normally you have balanced postings not sure what happened here but you act like someone held a gun to Manning's head to take all the that money and then conveniently ignore the fact that Brady just signed an unprecedented $24 million dollar three year contract this past-offseason to help the team build a contender which is exactly what he did in 2005 after winning his third Super Bowl - took $10 mil/per year over six years which was 30 percent under market value at the time.

 

So really by your reasoning Manning is the one most responsible for his unbalanced teams and lack of championship runs.

 

Again I'm almost positive you are not reading my posts.  I'm 100% sure now.  How did Manning not take his first big contract by force?  Agents were dominating the market at that time and rookies were getting more and more... This isn't new information now cmon... THERE WAS NO ROOKIE SALARY CAP.  Also again what did I say initially?  What has Brady won since getting that huge contract?!?  NOTHING he has only MADE IT TO 2... and guess what?  That is the exact same Manning has been too since his contracts have been inflated as well.  When you put so much money into your QB your team has flaws.  It is the nature of the salary cap.

 

And yes... I stated so in the first place IT IS MANNINGS FAULT AND CURSE that his teams were incomplete.  He has been penalized for being great time and time again.  How are you not getting this?!?!  Manning did great in College... He did so great he was taken first pick in a non rookie capped era where Agents were sapping teams of everything they had for ROOKIES.  So then Manning goes to a horrid record team that is now even more handicapped because of the money they spent on their QB and now you expect him to fight all of that and win superbowls?  He isn't Brady... he didn't come into the league for chump change into a perfect situation with a HOF head coach.  That is my point.  

 

I will state what I stated in my first statement.  Superbowls are hard to win.  They are harder when your QB takes up 1/4 of the cap.  Harder when you don't have a HoF head coach, and even harder when your organization has no clue how to pay manage rosters and have them heavy set with money on 4 players.

[amfootball]

He isn't Brady...