If Peyton doesnt win a SB this years, next year Denver has 34 free agents, many key players

[Superman]

while I like your thinking , basically from all I read Denver is hoping he switches to safety next year, this was talked about by them around draft time & just after , thats why drafted a CB & not a safety it was said too

 

maybe he would redo contract, who knows 

 

I am tired of all this offseason crap already, esp the illegal stuff affecting teams quality

 

Lets get on with the season

 

That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely that they keep him as a safety convert at $10.5m.

[Tony Sullivan]

It's not really that bad. They should be able to lock up their core and have some of their draft picks develop.

[bayone]

That's a possibility, but I think it's unlikely that they keep him as a safety convert at $10.5m.

 

it is a quite high amount, as said , if he wants to play so much, maybe he will renegotiate salary for chance of playing a few more years at safety ,  

[mvbighead]

while I like your thinking , basically from all I read Denver is hoping he switches to safety next year, this was talked about by them around draft time & just after , thats why drafted a CB & not a safety it was said too

 

maybe he would redo contract, who knows 

 

I am tired of all this offseason crap already, esp the illegal stuff affecting teams quality

 

Lets get on with the season

 

While that may be the intent, I certainly don't think it happens without a contract adjustment.  I still figure he could play CB for another year or two, but simply not at the 9 million+ dollar figure.  Generally, at those points, teams look to get cheaper and younger, almost regardless of the player.  The only exception is QB.  They won't ask Manning to take less, because most of what he does has little to do with his ability to run around.

[bayone]

it is a quite high amount, as said , if he wants to play so much, maybe he will renegotiate salary for chance of playing a few more years at safety ,  

 

 

While that may be the intent, I certainly don't think it happens without a contract adjustment.  I still figure he could play CB for another year or two, but simply not at the 9 million+ dollar figure.  Generally, at those points, teams look to get cheaper and younger, almost regardless of the player.  The only exception is QB.  They won't ask Manning to take less, because most of what he does has little to do with his ability to run around.

 

agreed , thats lots of money to resign the as many of the 34 G FA u have next year or bring in outside ones

[mvbighead]

Honestly, I think a number of those guys they can afford to lose.  Keep your big name guys like Clady, Miller, Decker, and Thomas, and then simply bring in semi-proven guys to fill in the gaps, much like we're doing.

 

It's almost Polian-esque, with the exception that we don't simply avoid FA completely.  You can still fill gaps with FA.  If role player A wants 4/season, and you can find a similar role player B for 2/season, go that route.

 

Denver will lose some players, no doubt.  But it is they key piece that truly matter.  You can always let one contract expire and replace him with either a younger player or perhaps even an older player who just needs a roster who wants him and will pay him fairly.

[dgambill]

You identify your needs/must signs. Then...well..some will have to walk. I 100% believe this is Champs last year in Denver. That contract won't allow them to keep him and resign who they NEED. Champ I don't think fills a NEED position for them. They have younger and almost as adequate guys waiting to step up. I think they have 2 years tops for the trophey.

[bayone]

Denver believes Chris harris is best slot coverage guy in NFL, even better now that he practices Vs Welker so know they want him

 

They drafted this CB webster guy * have said nothing since,, but all anylysts say they took him in 3rd round and easily could of waited till 5th at least

 

not sure  how vierw other CBs but  signed cromartie to a 1 year, To replace both him & Bailey will be tpugh , esp that safety & mid LB are concerns, 

 

if cut bailey maybe can use alot of $ for some good CB's in free agency but just feel they want him to take lower amount and solve safety issue

 

Thats next year right now they got a MILER IISUE , too bad Miller wasnt his recreational drug of choice, then again may have got DUI's

[GoPats]

With all those guys' deals expiring, they should have cap space to sign enough of them and reinforce other spots through low-price free agents. I've got to think Manning, if he's healthy, has enough in the tank for a couple more rounds. Maybe if they pull it off this year he'd retire, but if his neck is OK and he plays like he did in 2012 (or close to it), I'd say he's got at least a couple of good years in him.

[bayone]

With all those guys' deals expiring, they should have cap space to sign enough of them and reinforce other spots through low-price free agents. I've got to think Manning, if he's healthy, has enough in the tank for a couple more rounds. Maybe if they pull it off this year he'd retire, but if his neck is OK and he plays like he did in 2012 (or close to it), I'd say he's got at least a couple of good years in him.

 

If they pull it off and hes OK  he will stay for another try , but thats only a wild guess, I think he loves it to much, unless he decides wants more time with kids & wify

[Superman]

 

It's almost Polian-esque, with the exception that we don't simply avoid FA completely.  You can still fill gaps with FA.  If role player A wants 4/season, and you can find a similar role player B for 2/season, go that route.

 

 

That's exactly what it is. You draft well, and you commit to your cornerstone guys, but when injuries and/or draft failures threaten the quality of your roster, you use free agency to supplement. 

[mvbighead]

That's exactly what it is. You draft well, and you commit to your cornerstone guys, but when injuries and/or draft failures threaten the quality of your roster, you use free agency to supplement. 

 

And to me, the beauty of the FA side with a guy like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or Manning, is there is a pretty darned good reason for players to consider a lesser contract with one of those teams.  All teams led by great QBs have a decent chance of reaching the playoffs and seeing some success there.

 

So, if they recently cut Mays in favor of Brooking, I could see them going similar routes at other key positions.  It doesn't always work that way, such as the case with Freeney, but many times, you'll find a FA that either has seen no post season success, or simply wants a legitimate chance at a SB.  If I am that guy, I hope a team with one of those guys is interested in me, and I try to get a suitable wage to go play for that team.

 

With Polian, it was, well if a team let them walk, why would we want what thy don't?  The reality is, many players leave bad teams to find a better chance elsewhere.  DHB is one such example, and I am sure there are others.  Many players leave good teams to get paid, Mario Williams is a good example here.  So, if you look back, one of the teams to do this and do it well was the Patriots.  Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, and a handful of others came to play for that team in hopes of winning the big game.  Many were forced to move on when they couldn't be compensated well enough, but when you have a solid team, and can pick up some role players for different positions, you do it.

 

I think if Polian had at least grasped that concept, we likely would've had a veteran pass rusher behind Freeney and Mathis.  We would've sought out a average to above average DT, and not just practice squad players from other stacked teams.  Manning would probably have had another SB if Polian would've gone at FA more like what Grigson is doing.  Instead, he almost signed guys hoping to prove his mantra.  You have a guy like Simon who had the potential to be a game changer, but was known to be lazy.  So you sign him to a massive deal which will strap the cap for the future regardless of whether he is on the roster or not, and handicap the team when reverts to laziness.  Granted, this is hindsight being 20/20 and all, but there were some question marks surrounding Simon at the time, and he was cut during the offseason for reporting to camp out of shape.  Why we signed a deal that huge is a bit surprising, IMO.

[The Old Crow]

Denver will be the Ravens next year with plenty of cuts. However , you have blundering fax master Elway trying to rebuild a team , versus Ozzie Newsome. On top of that , you are playing this year again with Champ Bailey who was burned to a crisp twice by Torrey Smith. Losing Dumervil completely and Miller for four games also will not help. Manning is another year down the line , and that arm isn't getting any stronger. If they somehow got through the AFC , there are better teams waiting for them on the NFC side that are better than them. I think they missed their chance last year.

[oldunclemark]

With all those guys' deals expiring, they should have cap space to sign enough of them and reinforce other spots through low-price free agents. I've got to think Manning, if he's healthy, has enough in the tank for a couple more rounds. Maybe if they pull it off this year he'd retire, but if his neck is OK and he plays like he did in 2012 (or close to it), I'd say he's got at least a couple of good years in him.

I dont think Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees are going to retire anytime soon.

 

Peyton signed for 5 years last season and I'm almost certain NOW that he'll play the final 4 so I think he retires at the end of the 2016 season... 

 

..but I think Champ Bailey is already suggesting that this is his final season...

[bayone]

I dont think Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees are going to retire anytime soon.

 

Peyton signed for 5 years last season and I'm almost certain NOW that he'll play the final 4 so I think he retires at the end of the 2016 season... 

 

..but I think Champ Bailey is already suggesting that this is his final season...

 

Agree they wopnt retire RE QBs, havent heard Champ say that , may have , or may have said will be last at CB if still want me and insist to go to Safety, but as said before that would require a contract restructure etc

[Superman]

Denver will be the Ravens next year with plenty of cuts. However , you have blundering fax master Elway trying to rebuild a team , versus Ozzie Newsome. On top of that , you are playing this year again with Champ Bailey who was burned to a crisp twice by Torrey Smith. Losing Dumervil completely and Miller for four games also will not help. Manning is another year down the line , and that arm isn't getting any stronger. If they somehow got through the AFC , there are better teams waiting for them on the NFC side that are better than them. I think they missed their chance last year.

Careful, your bias is showing. Elway isn't the one that messed up the fax. Dumervil's agent did.

[DILLIGAFER]

Denver will be the Ravens next year with plenty of cuts. However , you have blundering fax master Elway trying to rebuild a team , versus Ozzie Newsome. On top of that , you are playing this year again with Champ Bailey who was burned to a crisp twice by Torrey Smith. Losing Dumervil completely and Miller for four games also will not help. Manning is another year down the line , and that arm isn't getting any stronger. If they somehow got through the AFC , there are better teams waiting for them on the NFC side that are better than them. I think they missed their chance last year.

 

Well thats just a flat out lie. There have been numerous reports that at the Manning passing academy, he was throwing hard. As Superman stated, your bias is seeping though. 

 

You also failed to mention along with Yes, Manning is another year down the line... AND more comfortable in Denver, more at home with his trainers, coaches, and team mates. Thats huge! 

 

Reaching out only on the negatives shows me you are a true Ravens fan, but hey, at least people like GoPats can admit the positives too. I have yet to see that from you in regards to Manning.

 

Just saying.  :cool:

[Superman]

And to me, the beauty of the FA side with a guy like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, or Manning, is there is a pretty darned good reason for players to consider a lesser contract with one of those teams.  All teams led by great QBs have a decent chance of reaching the playoffs and seeing some success there.

 

So, if they recently cut Mays in favor of Brooking, I could see them going similar routes at other key positions.  It doesn't always work that way, such as the case with Freeney, but many times, you'll find a FA that either has seen no post season success, or simply wants a legitimate chance at a SB.  If I am that guy, I hope a team with one of those guys is interested in me, and I try to get a suitable wage to go play for that team.

 

With Polian, it was, well if a team let them walk, why would we want what thy don't?  The reality is, many players leave bad teams to find a better chance elsewhere.  DHB is one such example, and I am sure there are others.  Many players leave good teams to get paid, Mario Williams is a good example here.  So, if you look back, one of the teams to do this and do it well was the Patriots.  Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, and a handful of others came to play for that team in hopes of winning the big game.  Many were forced to move on when they couldn't be compensated well enough, but when you have a solid team, and can pick up some role players for different positions, you do it.

 

I think if Polian had at least grasped that concept, we likely would've had a veteran pass rusher behind Freeney and Mathis.  We would've sought out a average to above average DT, and not just practice squad players from other stacked teams.  Manning would probably have had another SB if Polian would've gone at FA more like what Grigson is doing.  Instead, he almost signed guys hoping to prove his mantra.  You have a guy like Simon who had the potential to be a game changer, but was known to be lazy.  So you sign him to a massive deal which will strap the cap for the future regardless of whether he is on the roster or not, and handicap the team when reverts to laziness.  Granted, this is hindsight being 20/20 and all, but there were some question marks surrounding Simon at the time, and he was cut during the offseason for reporting to camp out of shape.  Why we signed a deal that huge is a bit surprising, IMO.

Yeah, lots of issues with Polian's approach. And the more time went on, the more he dug in.

If a team like the Broncos drafts well, and continues to address roster weaknesses in free agency, they can overcome a tough free agent season like they'll have in 2014. What the Ravens did this year is a perfect example. They'll have a ton of new starters, but they've drafted well in recent years, and they still plugged some holes in free agency.

You have these avenues available to you to build and improve your roster. Why not use them?

I'm kind of nervous about the way Grigson attacked free agency, but he didn't give up a lot of guaranteed money, and he was able to address several areas of need. I feel good about most of our signings, and their potential to help the team right away.

[bayone]

Well thats just a flat out lie. There have been numerous reports that at the Manning passing academy, he was throwing hard. As Superman stated, your bias is seeping though. 

 

You also failed to mention along with Yes, Manning is another year down the line... AND more comfortable in Denver, more at home with his trainers, coaches, and team mates. Thats huge! 

 

Reaching out only on the negatives shows me you are a true Ravens fan, but hey, at least people like GoPats can admit the positives too. I have yet to see that from you in regards to Manning.

 

Just saying.  :cool:

 

Manning should be fine, needs to reach comfort level now only with Welker who admits he sometimes , out of habit, reverts to way Brady had him do routes, with more repetitions this should lessen

 

RBs  mist come through in all phases and Ball cant play like a rookie

 

OL has to stay injury free as depth is nil

 

Fox needs to stop ignoring the Miller situation and think of ways if and when needed to design sub packages without him in game at all

 

from miller suspension thread

 

Basically Fox will practice as if there is no suspension going to happen and not try alternate scenarios if Miller isn't available for seasons start

Fox said that he has not discussed what the team would do if Miller were unavailable for the first four games

 

( thats what u call not preparing for a possible scenario )

 

Read more: Broncos' Von Miller to play with first team while suspension appealed - The Denver Post http://www.denverpos...n#ixzz2a34laA00 

 

Maybe thats his public statement to support a player  and not his actual intent  ??  

[bayone]

Michelle Beisner        ✔ @MichelleBeisner

“@JBDstarwars: @MichelleBeisner the last time a Tom Brady teammate joined manning, Adam vinatieri, manning won the super bowl that year!”

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have to scroll as is live tweets

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013-denver-broncos-training-camp/2013/7/25/4555528/welcome-to-denver-broncos-training-camp-2013

 

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=JBDstarwars&tw_i=360432639083151361&tw_p=embeddedtimeline&tw_w=344499961263693824

[bayone]

Manning should be fine, needs to reach comfort level now only with Welker who admits he sometimes , out of habit, reverts to way Brady had him do routes, with more repetitions this should lessen

 

RBs  mist come through in all phases and Ball cant play like a rookie

 

OL has to stay injury free as depth is nil

 

Fox needs to stop ignoring the Miller situation and think of ways if and when needed to design sub packages without him in game at all

 

from miller suspension thread

 

Basically Fox will practice as if there is no suspension going to happen and not try alternate scenarios if Miller isn't available for seasons start

Fox said that he has not discussed what the team would do if Miller were unavailable for the first four games

 

( thats what u call not preparing for a possible scenario )

 

Read more: Broncos' Von Miller to play with first team while suspension appealed - The Denver Post http://www.denverpos...n#ixzz2a34laA00 

 

Maybe thats his public statement to support a player  and not his actual intent  ??  

 

& fox is too conservative in in game situations, maybe with case and uptempo offense he will allow more aggresive plays when his compueter stats say otherwise based on history like in playoffs

[The Old Crow]

I actually like Manning a lot. He is just one more year down the road , but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. I would be more worried about the broncos pass rush and bailey in the secondary. Yes, I totally biased against Elway. He acted like a jerk in 1983 , and should always be held accountable for it. That being said , I don't think he is a great GM.

[mvbighead]

Yeah, lots of issues with Polian's approach. And the more time went on, the more he dug in.

If a team like the Broncos drafts well, and continues to address roster weaknesses in free agency, they can overcome a tough free agent season like they'll have in 2014. What the Ravens did this year is a perfect example. They'll have a ton of new starters, but they've drafted well in recent years, and they still plugged some holes in free agency.

You have these avenues available to you to build and improve your roster. Why not use them?

I'm kind of nervous about the way Grigson attacked free agency, but he didn't give up a lot of guaranteed money, and he was able to address several areas of need. I feel good about most of our signings, and their potential to help the team right away.

 

There is a point where I feel a bit nervous about Grigson also.  But, I think the only "real" contracts are to Cherilus and Landry.  Cherilus should be a mammoth improvement for us in the run game, and Landry's biggest question mark is staying healthy.  But, both have so much upside, the signing of them made plenty of sense.

 

As for the rest, it seems we have plenty of additions with an eye on the future.  Part of the problem is Grigson has to spend a certain amount of money, but it seems much of it is voidable.  And, when the time comes, I expect he'll have plenty of options to work to retain Luck and anyone else deemed necessary.

[Superman]

There is a point where I feel a bit nervous about Grigson also.  But, I think the only "real" contracts are to Cherilus and Landry.  Cherilus should be a mammoth improvement for us in the run game, and Landry's biggest question mark is staying healthy.  But, both have so much upside, the signing of them made plenty of sense.

 

As for the rest, it seems we have plenty of additions with an eye on the future.  Part of the problem is Grigson has to spend a certain amount of money, but it seems much of it is voidable.  And, when the time comes, I expect he'll have plenty of options to work to retain Luck and anyone else deemed necessary.

Those are the two contracts I'm most concerned about. Cherilus got a big signing bonus (even bigger than we originally thought, due to the 50% rule), and Landry has an injury guarantee in Year 2. If Cherilus' knees act up, we're in trouble, because we don't have any quality depth at tackle. And we haven't had a real strong safety in years, so Landry is a big piece for us. He was healthy and effective last year, so I feel good about his potential contributions, but if he goes down, that sucks big time.

Grigson wasn't required to spend any certain amount of money. Teams need to meet a threshold for a four year period from 2013-16. But technically, we can roll over cap space into future years, and then use that cap space to frontload contracts for our own free agents. Everyone is worried about Luck's contract, but imagine if we roll forward $10m in cap space every year, then in 2016, if the cap is $130m, we'll actually have a cap of $160m. We could do a $20m/year contract for him, but frontload it so that a big portion of that hit goes in the first two years, with a smaller portion in the subsequent years. Basically the opposite of Joe Flacco's contract. And we'd still hit our 4 year spending threshold.

In all, I think we're in good shape year to year on the cap. We only have $86m committed next season, which means we'll have another $35m+ in cap space. We have some free agents -- Angerer, Bethea, Davis, McFee, Bradshaw, DHB, etc. -- but we'll still have our core intact, and we will be able to make a couple of additions as we see fit.

I just hope we're not trying to patch the same holes in a year or two.

[mvbighead]

Those are the two contracts I'm most concerned about. Cherilus got a big signing bonus (even bigger than we originally thought, due to the 50% rule), and Landry has an injury guarantee in Year 2. If Cherilus' knees act up, we're in trouble, because we don't have any quality depth at tackle. And we haven't had a real strong safety in years, so Landry is a big piece for us. He was healthy and effective last year, so I feel good about his potential contributions, but if he goes down, that sucks big time.

Grigson wasn't required to spend any certain amount of money. Teams need to meet a threshold for a four year period from 2013-16. But technically, we can roll over cap space into future years, and then use that cap space to frontload contracts for our own free agents. Everyone is worried about Luck's contract, but imagine if we roll forward $10m in cap space every year, then in 2016, if the cap is $130m, we'll actually have a cap of $160m. We could do a $20m/year contract for him, but frontload it so that a big portion of that hit goes in the first two years, with a smaller portion in the subsequent years. Basically the opposite of Joe Flacco's contract. And we'd still hit our 4 year spending threshold.

In all, I think we're in good shape year to year on the cap. We only have $86m committed next season, which means we'll have another $35m+ in cap space. We have some free agents -- Angerer, Bethea, Davis, McFee, Bradshaw, DHB, etc. -- but we'll still have our core intact, and we will be able to make a couple of additions as we see fit.

I just hope we're not trying to patch the same holes in a year or two.

 

Yeah, patching the same holes year in and year out is definitely not something we want to be stuck with.  I will say, I think the draft is a good place for us to be finding those backups, but save that for the 4th round on down (more or less).

 

I think we've upgraded the tackle spot, and if I am not mistaken, we still have some of the guys that we had to make do with last year, so at the very worst, we'd fall back to that next season if we lost Cherilus.

 

As for Landry, he's no Bob Sanders, and our defense is no longer a bunch of 280lb linemen, and 215lb linebackers.  We have size enough to at least slow down the run and hopefully keep Landry from banging himself up too much, which was our downfall with Sanders.  Truth is, only time will tell if he continues to hold up, but he seems to be sure of himself and his preparation, so I would like to think he's strengthened his knee (as much as one can) so as to not have to have that happen again.

 

In any case, with 35 or whatever available next season, I'd like to think we can keep a lot of our guys that we want to, and hopefully keep them all with reasonable contracts.

[Superman]

Yeah, patching the same holes year in and year out is definitely not something we want to be stuck with.  I will say, I think the draft is a good place for us to be finding those backups, but save that for the 4th round on down (more or less).

 

I think we've upgraded the tackle spot, and if I am not mistaken, we still have some of the guys that we had to make do with last year, so at the very worst, we'd fall back to that next season if we lost Cherilus.

 

As for Landry, he's no Bob Sanders, and our defense is no longer a bunch of 280lb linemen, and 215lb linebackers.  We have size enough to at least slow down the run and hopefully keep Landry from banging himself up too much, which was our downfall with Sanders.  Truth is, only time will tell if he continues to hold up, but he seems to be sure of himself and his preparation, so I would like to think he's strengthened his knee (as much as one can) so as to not have to have that happen again.

 

In any case, with 35 or whatever available next season, I'd like to think we can keep a lot of our guys that we want to, and hopefully keep them all with reasonable contracts.

At tackle, we had Winston Justice starting. He's gone now. So we don't have the same we had last year.

I agree everywhere else. It's tough building and maintaining a contender. But the rookie wage scale makes it a little easier, so for the next three years, we'll be able to make waves without having a highly paid quarterback. And hopefully we keep getting starters in the first few rounds.

[mvbighead]

At tackle, we had Winston Justice starting. He's gone now. So we don't have the same we had last year.

I agree everywhere else. It's tough building and maintaining a contender. But the rookie wage scale makes it a little easier, so for the next three years, we'll be able to make waves without having a highly paid quarterback. And hopefully we keep getting starters in the first few rounds.

 

To me, Winston was the starter.  Gosder replaces Winston.  As for as depth, we have about the same kind of guys behind our two starters.  That's what I meant.

[Superman]

To me, Winston was the starter.  Gosder replaces Winston.  As for as depth, we have about the same kind of guys behind our two starters.  That's what I meant.

Ah, absolutely. Justice missed four games last year, and I think Linkenbach started in his place. I suppose that would be the same this year. Cherilus hasn't missed a game in two seasons, so hopefully he stays upright for us.