Questions to Stanford fans

[Kirie89]

I thought it would be a good idea to have a place where we could direct questions about, Pep Hamilton, the Stanford offense (scheme and other things) and Stanford players who could be targeted by the Colts, to people with better knowledge of these things.

 

One of my questions would be which Stanford players the Colts could go after in the draft and UDFA this year and what type of players they are?

[Coltsman1788]

Any good offensive linemen coming out of Stanford this year for the draft?

[Smonroe]

I really like what they've done with the Stanford program, especially considering their recruiting restrictions.

That being said, I'd repeat your last sentence and replace "Stanford" with either Alabama or SEC.

[Coltsman1788]

I really like what they've done with the Stanford program, especially considering their recruiting restrictions.

That being said, I'd repeat your last sentence and replace "Stanford" with either Alabama or SEC.

Yeah I am aware about the quality of the Alabama (SEC) linemen and have posted my support elsewhere for grabbing one of them.  However, the draft is deep at Oline this year and there will also be quality lesser known guys in later rounds.  So that is why I specifically asked about any quality Stanford's linemen coming out since our new OC would likely be familiar with them and they would already know the scheme.

 

Note: Reading your comment again, you may have been directing your statement to the OP. Hard to tell since you didn't quote.  If so, my apologies for misinterpreting.  

[Y2Jared]

Yeah I am aware about the quality of the Alabama (SEC) linemen and have posted my support elsewhere for grabbing one of them.  However, the draft is deep at Oline this year and there will also be quality lesser known guys in later rounds.  So that is why I specifically asked about any quality Stanford's linemen coming out since our new OC would likely be familiar with them and they would already know the scheme.

 

I think the guy that we should keep an eye on is Andrew Luck's long time center  Sam Schwartzstein. He is a little undersized at 290 pounds, but he was a good run blocker and good solid potential. Could be a good Day 3 pick (Rounds 4-7). Nobody is paying any attention to him, despite him playing pretty well overall. 

[Coltsman1788]

I think the guy that we should keep an eye on is Andrew Luck's long time center  Sam Schwartzstein. He is a little undersized at 290 pounds, but he was a good run blocker and good solid potential. Could be a good Day 3 pick (Rounds 4-7). Nobody is paying any attention to him, despite him playing pretty well overall. 

Cool!  Thanks...that's the kind of tasty info nugget that I was fishing for. 

[Smonroe]

Yeah I am aware about the quality of the Alabama (SEC) linemen and have posted my support elsewhere for grabbing one of them.  However, the draft is deep at Oline this year and there will also be quality lesser known guys in later rounds.  So that is why I specifically asked about any quality Stanford's linemen coming out since our new OC would likely be familiar with them and they would already know the scheme.

 

Note: Reading your comment again, you may have been directing your statement to the OP. Hard to tell since you didn't quote.  If so, my apologies for misinterpreting.  

My bad, I didn't quote because I thought it was the second post. But you snuck in there before me. My comment was generic anyway.

The point being, that while Stanford had a good team, and should have beaten ND, it's pretty obvious they weren't playing in the best conference. I think they would have been the sixth best team in the SEC.

I like the idea of loading up on Olinemen later in the draft. I still hope we make getting proven quality starters a priority once free agency opens up.

[NewColtsFan]

OK....   let's talk Pep....   and, a caution up front,  this is going to be long....    so some patience will be required....

 

Pep was the OC for two years after being our WR coach for one year.   He didn't run the Pep Hamilton offense.   What he was running was the Jim Harbaugh/Greg Roman offense.   It's now the blue print for success at Stanford.   I'm sure he made some adjustments to it,  but it's not his offense. 

 

He was the primary play caller.    He was the primary game planner.    It's hard to know how much that means when you have Andrew Luck as your QB along with DeCastro/Martin/Fleener too.   It's also hard to know how much that means when you lose those four plus other key players the next year.    Our QB play was atrocious for the first 2/3rds of the 2012 season, and then got much better, although it was from a redshirt freshman learning on the fly which means...  limitations...    So our offense was not great this year,  and it's hard to know how much of that was Hamilton.

 

Here's what I believe....   I don't think Grigson would hire him just because he was Luck's OC...  at least not that alone.   I think Andrew would certainly give a thumbs up or down.   I also think Shaw would have told Grigson thumbs up or not.   And if Hamilton weren't ready for this, I think Shaw would have told Hamilton that.   I don't think Shaw wants Hamilton to go to the NFL and be a spectacular failure,  especially for Luck's team....   So, all those things give me some measure of comfort.  Also, Trent Dilfer is a Hamilton fan, and I'm a big fan of Dilfer's.

 

That said....  no Stanford fan I know and respect thinks Hamilton is a great play caller.   Now that may be a bit unfair because he's compared to Roman, who is already being called one of the best player callers in the NFL.   He's scary brilliant.   Roman  may never be a head coach because he's quirky and odd in a 'mad scientist' kind of way.   But Hamilton doesn't strike anyone as great.   At least,  not yet.

 

I wouldn't worry that we're going to be a 60/40 running team like Stanford.   That works for Stanford and Pep is smart enough to know it would not work for the Colts.  It surprised me to learn the Colts were roughly a 60/40 passing team this year.  Honestly, I thought the numbers might've been more skewed to the pass.   But I do think we'll run a little more and pass a little less.  A little.

And I think (but don't know for sure) that it will be 'man' blocking and not 'zone'...

 

And I wouldn't worry about Hamilton's comment about costing Luck the Heisman.   That's not on Pep.   You call the plays to win the game, and winning is THE most important thing,  not winning the Heisman.   And since Stanford runs more,  that made it harder for Luck to win the award.   Props to Pep for sticking to the winning formula for Stanford.

 

OK....   more to come about Stanford players....

[SilentHill]

And I wouldn't worry about Hamilton's comment about costing Luck the Heisman.   That's not on Pep.   You call the plays to win the game, and winning is THE most important thing,  not winning the Heisman.   And since Stanford runs more,  that made it harder for Luck to win the award.   Props to Pep for sticking to the winning formula for Stanford.

 

Didn't they lose that year?

[NewColtsFan]

About Stanford players....

 

Offensive in the Draft:

 

-- Two tight ends...  Ertz/Toilolo

-- One Center....      Schwartzstein

-- Two Wide Receivers...    Terrell/Patterson

-- One running back...      Taylor

 

Ertz and the Notre Dame kid are the top two tight ends.   Toilolo is 6'8" and 265, but still raw and unpolished.   He knows he needs another year but is coming out so as not to risk getting hurt his last year in college.   He already has one knee injury and one broken foot in two different years at Stanford.   Taylor, IMO, is a quality NFL back-up.  Not a starter.  Likely to be taken in the 4-6 rounds depending on how he tests.   The other kids are Free Agent types, even Schwartzstein and Terrell.  

 

Defense:

 

-- One Nose Tackle...      Stephens

-- One OLB...                   Thomas

-- One Corner...               Brown

 

Stephens is a small undersized NT...  decent run stuffer...  but Free Agent.    Thomas is a very, very good college player, but I'm not sure if his game will translate well to the NFL.    He doesn't have the athleticism to be an above average starter in the NFL, and OLB is a glamor position now.   He succeeds on heart and motor and smarts.   I'm not sure that's a winning recipe at that position in the NFL.   I see him going in the 3rd R.    Brown is someone I hope the Colts keep an eye on.   Another 3rd/4th round pick...  he's tall and thin but very confident and fearless...  he's a good but not great athlete, but not afraid to go against the best.  Think Richard Sherman (only not quite as big) but without the super cocky swagger...   I think Brown has big upside.   

 

Stanford's pipeline is very good.   No one else in college football knows this, but it's very good.   We're still very much under the radar.   There's plenty of future NFL talent on the roster.   We had a scary great all-time recruiting class last year...   this years will be modest, but primarily due to size...  our class will be tiny, likely less than 15.   But the buzz is very hot for the 2014 class... very.

 

That's the Stanford personnel preview....   probably more than you wanted to know!         

[NewColtsFan]

Didn't they lose that year?

 

Lose what?  

 

That year (201) Stanford finished 11-1 and then lost in the Fiesta Bowl in a game we dominated Oklahoma State. 

Luck had a scary great game...  27-31 for 370 yards...   Luck was brilliant, but our kicker missed two very makable field goals...

 

What are you gonna do?

[Smonroe]

Thanks NCF, good stuff.

 

But we need to keep in mind that Stanford wasn't exactly an elite team.  

 

I'm a Buckeye living in Bama so I see a lot of the SEC (and have a kid at Bama).  Point being, I'm not being a homer when I say - Stanford would maybe be sixth in the SEC.  I kind of wish that Grigs would be mining that conference for talent and coaches.

[BOTT]

Thanks NCF, good stuff.

 

But we need to keep in mind that Stanford wasn't exactly an elite team.  

 

I'm a Buckeye living in Bama so I see a lot of the SEC (and have a kid at Bama).  Point being, I'm not being a homer when I say - Stanford would maybe be sixth in the SEC.  I kind of wish that Grigs would be mining that conference for talent and coaches.

Meh,the SEC was kinda down this year...by their standards

[ConBro]

Lose what?  

 

That year (201) Stanford finished 11-1 and then lost in the Fiesta Bowl in a game we dominated Oklahoma State. 

Luck had a scary great game...  27-31 for 370 yards...   Luck was brilliant, but our kicker missed two very makable field goals...

 

What are you gonna do?

I remember that. I was upset. I'm a Longhorns and 'Cuse fan myself but watched the game to see Luck and Fleener (I had a feeling we would draft Coby too). I had heard the criticism that Luck had not won any "big games" and saw the kicker screw it up for him more than once. I loved seeing Luck say "It's alright" and nod his head on the sideline though; true leader!

[Smonroe]

Meh,the SEC was kinda down this year...by their standards

 

Yeah, only 5 teams in the top 10.  Pretty bad year.

[TKnight24]

I'd like Taylor. I would say get Ertz but Saunders will probably stay with us as the #3 TE.

It's a player on their Defense I like but can't think of.......

[NewColtsFan]

I remember that. I was upset. I'm a Longhorns and 'Cuse fan myself but watched the game to see Luck and Fleener (I had a feeling we would draft Coby too). I had heard the criticism that Luck had not won any "big games" and saw the kicker screw it up for him more than once. I loved seeing Luck say "It's alright" and nod his head on the sideline though; true leader!

 

I think that criticism is badly misplaced.

 

Andrew Luck is....  THE ONLY QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL TO BEAT NOTRE DAME ***AND*** USC THREE TIMES EACH AND NEVER LOSE.     Read that again.    Think about that.

 

The criticism comes from having lost two games to Oregon, both in which Stanford scored more than 30 points, and losing to Oklahoma State where Stanford scored 38.  And he did all that with no serious WR talent.   Just a great running game and his tight ends.    Some things are just out of your control.

[NewColtsFan]

I'd like Taylor. I would say get Ertz but Saunders will probably stay with us as the #3 TE.

It's a player on their Defense I like but can't think of.......

 

On next year's defense, and coming out for the 2014 draft...

 

DL -- Gardner

ILB -- Skov

OLB -- Murphy

DB   -- Richards and Reynolds

 

All very, very good.   Given health,  they should all be drafted in the top 4 rounds.   Don't think any will be a 1st rounder, but each might be a 2nd to 4th rounder.   And more talent behind them....   there is a pipeline...

[TKnight24]

On next year's defense, and coming out for the 2014 draft...

DL -- Gardner

ILB -- Skov

OLB -- Murphy

DB -- Richards and Reynolds

All very, very good. Given health, they should all be drafted in the top 4 rounds. Don't think any will be a 1st rounder, but each might be a 2nd to 4th rounder. And more talent behind them.... there is a pipeline...

That's who it is!!! Skov!! Cause I always thought he was Russian (Skov sounds Russian to me). So everytime he was chasing someone, I'd yell out "The Russian Savage is coming for you, don't Run!!!"

Of course not being racist or anything. Great Player though

[BOTT]

Yeah, only 5 teams in the top 10.  Pretty bad year.

I keep forgetting A&M is in the SEC. You get past the top teams and there is a lot of mediocrity

[Smonroe]

I keep forgetting A&M is in the SEC. You get past the top teams and there is a lot of mediocrity

 

I know what you're saying, but think about it.  You can say that about every conference, right?  I don't think there's any argument that it's the best football conference by far.  You could make a case that the sixth SEC team is better than the top team in every other conference.  Even Vandy had a decent year, and the teams that were down last year have all had very good years (except maybe Kentucky).

 

Like I said, I'm a Buckeye but if someone said that even though they went undefeated, they weren't an elite team, I wouldn't really argue with them.  The Big 10 was very weak in 12.

 

All I'm saying is that instead of getting wrapped up in what players we can get from Stanford, let's think about the middle round guys we can get from the SEC.  If I recall, we got a decent RB late in the draft last year.

[BOTT]

I know what you're saying, but think about it.  You can say that about every conference, right?  I don't think there's any argument that it's the best football conference by far.  You could make a case that the sixth SEC team is better than the top team in every other conference.  Even Vandy had a decent year, and the teams that were down last year have all had very good years (except maybe Kentucky).

 

Like I said, I'm a Buckeye but if someone said that even though they went undefeated, they weren't an elite team, I wouldn't really argue with them.  The Big 10 was very weak in 12.

 

All I'm saying is that instead of getting wrapped up in what players we can get from Stanford, let's think about the middle round guys we can get from the SEC.  If I recall, we got a decent RB late in the draft last year.

Yes u can say that about every conference....that why I said it was down "for the sec". I mean really, Bama only had to play LSU and A&M in the division. But in the end I guess ur right since stanford would have a tough time against the sec elite

[Kirie89]

I think the guy that we should keep an eye on is Andrew Luck's long time center  Sam Schwartzstein. He is a little undersized at 290 pounds, but he was a good run blocker and good solid potential. Could be a good Day 3 pick (Rounds 4-7). Nobody is paying any attention to him, despite him playing pretty well overall. 

 

 

If Schwartzstein is a little undersized do you think he has the frame to put on some weight, and will his game be affected if he is 10 pounds (or more) heavier?

 

 

About Stanford players....

 

Offensive in the Draft:

 

-- Two tight ends...  Ertz/Toilolo

-- One Center....      Schwartzstein

-- Two Wide Receivers...    Terrell/Patterson

-- One running back...      Taylor

 

Ertz and the Notre Dame kid are the top two tight ends.   Toilolo is 6'8" and 265, but still raw and unpolished.   He knows he needs another year but is coming out so as not to risk getting hurt his last year in college.   He already has one knee injury and one broken foot in two different years at Stanford.   Taylor, IMO, is a quality NFL back-up.  Not a starter.  Likely to be taken in the 4-6 rounds depending on how he tests.   The other kids are Free Agent types, even Schwartzstein and Terrell.   

 

I remember I really liked Toilolo from the Stanford games I watched to see Luck. Where do you think he will go in the draft, and can he overcome his injury problems?

What is your take on Schwartzstein?

[NewColtsFan]

If Schwartzstein is a little undersized do you think he has the frame to put on some weight, and will his game be affected if he is 10 pounds (or more) heavier?

 

 

 

I remember I really liked Toilolo from the Stanford games I watched to see Luck. Where do you think he will go in the draft, and can he overcome his injury problems?

What is your take on Schwartzstein?

 

 

Toilolo is an athletic marvel.   6'8" and 265 and athletically gifted.  But he's not a consistent pass catcher.   He'll make one great catch,  then drop a very catchable pass,  then not make the catch on a ball that might be considered a tough catch, but still makable...   His best trait is his inline blocking.   Honestly, he really should be a left tackle.   But he doesn't want to be one.   He has no desire to be a lineman.   Wants to be a tight end.   OK...  but he's a project.   My read is likely a 4th rounder...  but could go as high as the 3rd based on potential.   Some team could easily look at him and fall madly in love.   The draft will do that. 

 

Schwartzstein is a good college player...  but he's not as good as the guy he replaced, a kid named Chase Beeler, who was even smaller than Schwartzstein.    Beeler has been bouncing around on practice squads.   So, I think, for starters, Schwartzstein is no better than a PS player.   Could he develop into more?    I guess it's possible.   SS is a free agent to start with, and then he'll have to work his way up.

 

Center is really a spot for overachievers, as Jeff Saturday proved to all of you for a decade!   

[Smonroe]

Yes u can say that about every conference....that why I said it was down "for the sec". I mean really, Bama only had to play LSU and A&M in the division. But in the end I guess ur right since stanford would have a tough time against the sec elite

And I really wasn't trying to make this about that. I was just saying that we shouldn't get all excited over Stanford players.

But since this is a Stanford thread, I should just lay low.

[HtownColt]

Pep Hamilton would bring a combination of offenses he learned with his time with the Jets from 03-05 49ers in 06 and Bears from 07-09 plus what he used at Stanford. He has a good offensive mind and has been an QB coach or a OC everywhere he went at some point. He is just making his 2nd round in the NFL and everybody the second time around for a coach is the best round. This offense should have just about everything in it

[ConBro]

I think that criticism is badly misplaced.

 

Andrew Luck is....  THE ONLY QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL TO BEAT NOTRE DAME ***AND*** USC THREE TIMES EACH AND NEVER LOSE.     Read that again.    Think about that.

 

The criticism comes from having lost two games to Oregon, both in which Stanford scored more than 30 points, and losing to Oklahoma State where Stanford scored 38.  And he did all that with no serious WR talent.   Just a great running game and his tight ends.    Some things are just out of your control.

Yeah exactly. Similar to the "Manning could never beat Florida" criticism.

[Coltsman1788]

And I really wasn't trying to make this about that. I was just saying that we shouldn't get all excited over Stanford players.

But since this is a Stanford thread, I should just lay low.

No problem buddy,..I think we all know where you are coming from and would agree for the most part.  But like you said...this is a Stanford thread and some of us just wanted to know a little more about their players given the Colts obvious connection with them.  I think most of us trust that Grigs will ultimately select the best talent available that fits the team.  If that ends up being mostly SEC guys then so be it. 

[manning04]

Would not be surprised if we get Toilolo late if he is still available.

[NewColtsFan]

Thanks NCF, good stuff.

 

But we need to keep in mind that Stanford wasn't exactly an elite team.  

 

I'm a Buckeye living in Bama so I see a lot of the SEC (and have a kid at Bama).  Point being, I'm not being a homer when I say - Stanford would maybe be sixth in the SEC.  I kind of wish that Grigs would be mining that conference for talent and coaches.

 

 

Which year wasn't Stanford an elite team?

 

You do realize Stanford has finished in the top-10 each of the last 3 years.....   

 

I'm willing to concede that Stanford would not hold up against Alabama and LSU....   We'd likely be embarrassed by them.   I say that all the time on my Stanford website and I have Stanford fans who are not fond of me for saying that. 

 

But, if you're talking about Florida, Georgia, South Carolina....   I'm willing to say Stanford would do OK against any of them.   I'd say we would not be embarrassed against any of those three.   If we played each of them 10 times, I'd think we'd win 4-6 against each.     If you doubt that,  understand Stanford went 2-2 over the last 4 years against Oregon.   Not an easy achievement.   We've beaten USC 4 out of the last 5 years.   Our 'power' running game is tough for opponents because they're not used to facing anything like it.   Also,  we make very few penalties or turnovers.   We rarely beat ourselves.

 

We're a surprisingly tough match-up.

 

Just my opinion, and unfortunately,  we'll never really know....

[Smonroe]

Which year wasn't Stanford an elite team?

 

You do realize Stanford has finished in the top-10 each of the last 3 years.....   

 

I'm willing to concede that Stanford would not hold up against Alabama and LSU....   We'd likely be embarrassed by them.   I say that all the time on my Stanford website and I have Stanford fans who are not fond of me for saying that. 

 

But, if you're talking about Florida, Georgia, South Carolina....   I'm willing to say Stanford would do OK against any of them.   I'd say we would not be embarrassed against any of those three.   If we played each of them 10 times, I'd think we'd win 4-6 against each.     If you doubt that,  understand Stanford went 2-2 over the last 4 years against Oregon.   Not an easy achievement.   We've beaten USC 4 out of the last 5 years.   Our 'power' running game is tough for opponents because they're not used to facing anything like it.   Also,  we make very few penalties or turnovers.   We rarely beat ourselves.

 

We're a surprisingly tough match-up.

 

Just my opinion, and unfortunately,  we'll never really know....

Yes, we'll really never know. We do know that Oregon, one of the best teams in your conference, hasn't exactly fared well against the SEC. We know how ND, who barely beat Stanford, fared against an SEC team. There's not even a valid argument which conference has the most talent.

I didn't mean to get into a college debate. I was just pointing out that we all shouldn't get over enamored about mining Stanford for players. Look to the stronger conference for the better players. But I did say that this was a Stanford thread so I should have stayed out with that opinion.

BTW, I've become a bit of a Stanford fan for the same reason you became a Colts fan. I like the way they run their program, and I wish them luck (npi) in the future. Unless they're playing my Buckeyes, of course!

[NewColtsFan]

Yes, we'll really never know. We do know that Oregon, one of the best teams in your conference, hasn't exactly fared well against the SEC. We know how ND, who barely beat Stanford, fared against an SEC team. There's not even a valid argument which conference has the most talent.

I didn't mean to get into a college debate. I was just pointing out that we all shouldn't get over enamored about mining Stanford for players. Look to the stronger conference for the better players. But I did say that this was a Stanford thread so I should have stayed out with that opinion.

BTW, I've become a bit of a Stanford fan for the same reason you became a Colts fan. I like the way they run their program, and I wish them luck (npi) in the future. Unless they're playing my Buckeyes, of course!

 

On the overall strength of conference....   I agree,  SEC....   especially when it comes to NFL talent.   And I suspect Grigson will spend plenty of time scouting there...    I do believe the Pac-12 is under rated...   but I know that will get a lot of doubters and skeptics here...    fair enough...

 

And not to put too fine a point on it....   while I wanted the Colts to switch to the WCO offense because I think it plays to Andrew's strengths much, much more than Arians' system did....   I was not expecting Pep Hamilton to be our new guy.   I didn't see it coming.   Most Stanford fans didn't see it coming.    Most think he's not quite ready for the NFL.

 

We're about to find out if we're right or wrong.     I'm hoping I'm wrong,  but fearing I'm right.....