AR vs Bryce Young

[RollerColt]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree with a lot of this. I started to go point by point, but I think we'd just be talking in extremes. 

 

Here's my rebuttal. I think seeing the reality of trying to develop a raw, inexperienced QB is a shock to a lot of people. And the interruption to Richardson's develop in 2023 makes it worse. Yes, he's in his second season, but he missed 13 games as a rookie, and like any other QB, he needs to play to get better. He's played seven games.

 

Since this is the path the team has chosen -- whether anyone agrees with it or not -- it seems unreasonable to constantly complain about the rugged nature of the path. And it seems downright crazy to talk about benching him in order to salvage some wins.

 

A lot of the discourse around Richardson right now is not just lacking in patience, it's also lacking in reason. So it's not just pushback because people have valid, legitimate concerns about him. It's mostly pushback because people are judging him against an unreasonable standard, given the reality of the situation. 

Like I said, the media put unfair expectations on this kid and a lot of people ignored Ballard’s warning to not crown him just yet. 
 

So many of us talked ourselves into believing he was the missing piece to win the division, and the truth is we’re just not there yet. 
 

He’s in a bit of a no win situation where fans are tired of all the losses since 2019. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree with a lot of this. I started to go point by point, but I think we'd just be talking in extremes. 

 

Here's my rebuttal. I think seeing the reality of trying to develop a raw, inexperienced QB is a shock to a lot of people. And the interruption to Richardson's develop in 2023 makes it worse. Yes, he's in his second season, but he missed 13 games as a rookie, and like any other QB, he needs to play to get better. He's played seven games.

 

Since this is the path the team has chosen -- whether anyone agrees with it or not -- it seems unreasonable to constantly complain about the rugged nature of the path. And it seems downright crazy to talk about benching him in order to salvage some wins.

 

A lot of the discourse around Richardson right now is not just lacking in patience, it's also lacking in reason. So it's not just pushback because people have valid, legitimate concerns about him. It's mostly pushback because people are judging him against an unreasonable standard, given the reality of the situation. 

 

The difference is that people with concerns did not create a lofty standard for AR that some might think they are unfairly holding him to. The hype has always been considerably louder than any skepticism. And though not quite as loud, there were many who said he was not a project QB and that he was more advanced than people thought.

 

Even after last season (and his shoulder injury which cost him most of his rookie), it was implied that AR, based on the small sample we had, was and would be the difference needed to get them over the hump to the playoffs. That whole narrative doesn't exist if people didn't already have high expectations for the team and for AR. The skeptics certainly didn't set that expectation.

 

I could be misinterpreting, but I am not really sure how AR skeptics (for lack of a better term) are being unreasonable here...if that is what you are saying. If they are writing him off or something silly like that, then yes, but it's far too early for that talk.

 

What it's not far too early for is improvements. Because even beyond the already-existing fan and media hype, we have also heard about these improvements from actual coaches. Yet, we haven't seen them...and that is concerning.

 

I think the same skeptics have always been aware of the current reality...of the rugged nature of it...which is why they are/were skeptics or wanted no part in this. That seems reasonable to me as well.

 

I don't care about wins this year either. But I do care about his confidence and developing bad habits, so it's a valid discussion if he's still throwing multiple INTs per game in 6-8 weeks.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

56 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

The difference is that people with concerns did not create a lofty standard for AR that some might think they are unfairly holding him to. The hype has always been considerably louder than any skepticism. And though not quite as loud, there were many who said he was not a project QB and that he was more advanced than people thought.

 

Even after last season (and his shoulder injury which cost him most of his rookie), it was implied that AR, based on the small sample we had, was and would be the difference needed to get them over the hump to the playoffs. That whole narrative doesn't exist if people didn't already have high expectations for the team and for AR. The skeptics certainly didn't set that expectation.

 

I could be misinterpreting, but I am not really sure how AR skeptics (for lack of a better term) are being unreasonable here...if that is what you are saying. If they are writing him off or something silly like that, then yes, but it's far too early for that talk.

 

What it's not far too early for is improvements. Because even beyond the already-existing fan and media hype, we have also heard about these improvements from actual coaches. Yet, we haven't seen them...and that is concerning.

 

I think the same skeptics have always been aware of the current reality...of the rugged nature of it...which is why they are/were skeptics or wanted no part in this. That seems reasonable to me as well.

 

I don't care about wins this year either. But I do care about his confidence and developing bad habits, so it's a valid discussion if he's still throwing multiple INTs per game in 6-8 weeks.

I actually think he is more advanced than I thought he would be with only 13 college starts. His probablems are not readinf  a defense or understanding the game. Even Nelson said is football mind is way ahead of where it should be with so little experience. Inaccuracy doesn’t mean he is behind where we thought. It just means he is learning to throw again after sitting.

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

The difference is that people with concerns did not create a lofty standard for AR that some might think they are unfairly holding him to. The hype has always been considerably louder than any skepticism. And though not quite as loud, there were many who said he was not a project QB and that he was more advanced than people thought.

 

Even after last season (and his shoulder injury which cost him most of his rookie), it was implied that AR, based on the small sample we had, was and would be the difference needed to get them over the hump to the playoffs. That whole narrative doesn't exist if people didn't already have high expectations for the team and for AR. The skeptics certainly didn't set that expectation.

 

I could be misinterpreting, but I am not really sure how AR skeptics (for lack of a better term) are being unreasonable here...if that is what you are saying. If they are writing him off or something silly like that, then yes, but it's far too early for that talk.

 

What it's not far too early for is improvements. Because even beyond the already-existing fan and media hype, we have also heard about these improvements from actual coaches. Yet, we haven't seen them...and that is concerning.

 

I think the same skeptics have always been aware of the current reality...of the rugged nature of it...which is why they are/were skeptics or wanted no part in this. That seems reasonable to me as well.

 

I don't care about wins this year either. But I do care about his confidence and developing bad habits, so it's a valid discussion if he's still throwing multiple INTs per game in 6-8 weeks.

 

In the interest of not talking past each other, let me say that I don't see your position as unreasonable. And I don't think you see me as someone who was calling Richardson the missing piece to get to the playoffs (and if you do, let me be clear that I never saw it that way). 

 

It's not hard for a narrative to take root, but narratives don't always reflect reality. For example, I think a lot of people who were optimistic about the Colts this season felt like the team was a good QB away from winning the division last season, and that with a good QB this season, the division could be in play. And at the same time, there was optimism that Richardson could be a good QB. And while closely related, those are two separate and unique projections. 

 

But if you meld those two projections together, now you're saying 'Richardson was supposed to be the missing piece, and right now the team is struggling, so this entire project is a failure.' And that's unreasonable. Again, Richardson missed 13 games as a rookie, and has played 7 games total. 

 

Regarding Richardson skeptics being unreasonable, you don't have to leave this thread to see people suggesting and outright stating that he should be benched. And even if someone wasn't on board with the decision to draft and develop a QB like Richardson to begin with, is it necessary to rehash that discussion after every bad throw? Now that the decision is made, and the process is under way, can we play the process out over a reasonable period of time before we declare the outcome?

 

And then there's the idea that we haven't seen any improvement in his play, and I think that's inaccurate. First, the sample size is incredibly small so far; saying stuff like 'this is his second year, he's not a rookie' seems stubborn to me. Second, he has made improvements; you can even see adjustments he made during the game this Sunday. There are going to be highs and lows with any young QB, maybe more with Richardson than most. But if someone is only going to analyze the box score, then they might want to skip the early part of his career. 

 

I think we all care about wins. But the point is that developing the QB is the most important factor in whether this team can go anywhere in the near future. It would be nice if the rest of the team would play well enough to make up for some of Richardson's issues, and then maybe we could develop the QB and try to win some games along the way. I think that's what most people were hoping for coming into the season.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

So many of us talked ourselves into believing he was the missing piece to win the division, and the truth is we’re just not there yet. 

 

Think about his raw talent. Now imagine him coming close to reaching his potential. If that happens, the Colts should be in play for the division every year.

 

But after he got hurt, was anyone seriously projecting that Richardson would be coming close to reaching his potential in 2024? 

[RollerColt]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Think about his raw talent. Now imagine him coming close to reaching his potential. If that happens, the Colts should be in play for the division every year.

 

But after he got hurt, was anyone seriously projecting that Richardson would be coming close to reaching his potential in 2024? 

Some were. 
 

I’ve watched enough tape that shows he can play the position. He just needs time. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

Some were. 
 

I’ve watched enough tape that shows he can play the position. He just needs time. 

 

I think some people allowed themselves to imagine him being really good this year, and got optimistic about it. I don't think anyone seriously projected it to happen. 

[RollerColt]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think some people allowed themselves to imagine him being really good this year, and got optimistic about it. I don't think anyone seriously projected it to happen. 

I agree. I definitely wasn’t expecting him to be franchise level yet. 
 

I’m fine letting things play out and seeing what happens. At least for me the games have been less stressful so far. 

[ColtAndOrioles]

I think a lot of people saw AR play his 4 games last year and were astounded how good he was.  I know I was.  He looked amazing considering his lack of experience. 

 

So they just assumed, via Osmosis I guess, that by sitting for the last 13 games and not being able to really throw normally until July or August of this year that he would progress like a normal NFL qb who actually played the whole year.

That isn't how it works however IRL.  Not only did he not play and not throw for 9 months, which even if he hadn't gotten injured would be hard enough, but he also had a major injury that required surgery to the most important part of his throwing motion....the shoulder.   Again I broke my thumb this spring and was unable to play the sport I am best at, and it has been a month back and I am not even close to how good I was before.  And I was only off 4 months.  

 

One of these weeks it is all going to click for AR as his mind and body acclimates to playing QB again and lots of you are going to be eating crow imo. 

[ColtAndOrioles]

9 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

There were many here who preferred Stroud (the better passer) in the pre-draft process. And like 99% of Colts fans wanted nothing to do with Levis. Your opinions are wrong. 

Stroud was not attainable.  So lets just forget about him.   It is the same as saying I wanted the Orioles to sign Shohei Ohtani.  It's not happening. 

 

So that left Levis and AR and imo it was not close in today's NFL who has the potential to be the better NFL QB.   Or did you want the Colts to trade down again and have the latest NFL vet scrub be out QB for the 5th time?

[jimmy g]

Due to my work schedule, I only listen to the games.  Last year, it sounded like AR was ahead of schedule, sounding like his grasp of the game was unexpectedly good, plus he seemed to have a good trust going with Downs.

 

Fast forward to this year, and his struggles. Possibly because of his missing months of development . Possibly because Downs was out? Or because he and he and Mitchell just don’t seem to have a connection?  

[Fat Clemenza]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

I think a lot of people who were optimistic about the Colts this season felt like the team was a good QB away from winning the division last season, and that with a good QB this season, the division could be in play

Absolutely- and this is a central way many fans are disconnected from the priorities of the Colts brass. 
 

CB and SS would love a division title, sure, but if they were being honest they would admit this is, in reality, a throw away season- everything they are doing revolves around developing AR, and that supersedes winning. If that wasn’t the case, much would be different, ie Richardson would be using his legs much more on designed runs and scrambles rather than being trained as a pocket passer; Taylor would have played 4th Q va Packers; and people calling for Flacco to start would possibly get what they want. 
 

Personally I agree with the focus on Richardson’s development and health.