Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think my point is that we've been paying our best players, but our best players haven't been at positions for which you think we should be paying. If you replace Shaq, Q and Smith with a WR, LT, DE, you'd probably characterize those negotiations differently.

 

You're right that we haven't had much of this. But I think that's mostly a byproduct of having not drafted well for a long time. Once you start stacking up good drafts, you'll have some unhappy players because you can't pay everyone. 

 

Just thought of another example, by the way. Marlon Mack asked for a trade in 2021 because he was stuck on the bench behind JT. Kind of a unique situation since he was coming off the injury, but I imagine he was hoping to be paid before the 2020 season. Instead, we drafted his replacement.

 

I don't think the Mack thing seemed contentious the way I remember.  The Colts were not going to pay that running back.  (I loved Mack BTW.  Loved the fluidity of his game.)  

 

Maybe writing on the wall for how they viewed the running back position?  ie. Draft, use up, don't resign, draft another one. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

Yep.  That would be a reasonable hypothesis.  

 

So you think JT would be as good as a receiver as CMC?

 

you and the mouse in your pocket would be the 2 then. 

Give him 100 targets and find out.   Matt Forte was a similar player to JT. Up right runner, didn't run wide often.  JT is faster.    Forte caught 100 balls in a season.   He won my fantasy league in 13 or 14.   I bet he had more targets that year than JT has in 3

[w87r]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Give him 100 targets and find out.   Matt Forte was a similar player to JT. Up right runner, didn't run wide often.  JT is faster.    Forte caught 100 balls in a season.   He won my fantasy league in 13 or 14.   I bet he had more targets that year than JT has in 3

130 targets 2014

 

130 targets in Taylor's career.

 

Lol, funny it's the exact same number 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't think the Mack thing seemed contentious the way I remember.  The Colts were not going to pay that running back.  (I loved Mack BTW.  Loved the fluidity of his game.)  

 

Maybe writing on the wall for how they viewed the running back position?  ie. Draft, use up, don't resign, draft another one. 

They paid him 2 million  to come back after an achilles tear.  

Just now, w87r said:

130 targets 2014

 

130 targets in Taylor's career.

 

Lol, funny it's the exact same number 

I was off by 1

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think that would be a silly statement to make. I also think it's pretty clear that JT hasn't been given any real opportunities to produce as a pass catcher. I don't think he's limited in a way that would prevent him from being a good option out of the backfield. What's limited him has been the offense and the QB play.

 

I am in agreeance with people who have been talking about CMC.  

 

JT is good enough to catch the dump offs and screens and turn up field, to sneak out on the occasional wheel route.

 

But he is limited in what he can do as a pass catcher when it comes to more complex/lateral quickness friendly routes.

 

CMC and I mentioned Marshall Faulk might have been Pro Bowl slots in this league and I think Faulk could have played Y.

 

Faulk was underrated as a football player IMO even though he got paid.  I don't think it's understood how great and diverse an all around player the guy was.  He was a  HOF level pass protector too if you could make the hall for just that.  Perhaps the Goat.

 

Faulk and CMC have other worldly lateral quickness.  JT does not.  That is why he is a limited receiver and sub par pass blocker.  It's not intended to be a negative criticism, just an observation. 

 

 

[Nickster]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think that would be a silly statement to make. I also think it's pretty clear that JT hasn't been given any real opportunities to produce as a pass catcher. I don't think he's limited in a way that would prevent him from being a good option out of the backfield. What's limited him has been the offense and the QB play.

 

 

Well he had 92 targets in 32 games his first two season.  That's a quite a few. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

Someone was mentioning Faulk.  Faulk could have been a slot or Y in the league IMO.  CMC is like that. 

I said Faulk would be the standard in the NFL today.   CMC has a long way to go to get in that territory.    

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

Well he had 92 targets in 32 games his first two season.  That's a quite a few. 

And did well statistically with those targets.  

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They paid him 2 million  to come back after an achilles tear.  

 

I meant a long term deal before the tear.  That's fairly evident since they drafted Taylor after two really solid years from Mack.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I said Faulk would be the standard in the NFL today.   CMC has a long way to go to get in that territory.    

 

We agree on that.  Marshall Faulk was the Shehoi Othani of the milleneum era football. 

[jvan1973]

12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I am in agreeance with people who have been talking about CMC.  

 

JT is good enough to catch the dump offs and screens and turn up field, to sneak out on the occasional wheel route.

 

But he is limited in what he can do as a pass catcher when it comes to more complex/lateral quickness friendly routes.

 

CMC and I mentioned Marshall Faulk might have been Pro Bowl slots in this league and I think Faulk could have played Y.

 

Faulk was underrated as a football player IMO even though he got paid.  I don't think it's understood how great and diverse an all around player the guy was.  He was a  HOF level pass protector too if you could make the hall for just that.  Perhaps the Goat.

 

Faulk and CMC have other worldly lateral quickness.  JT does not.  That is why he is a limited receiver and sub par pass blocker.  It's not intended to be a negative criticism, just an observation. 

 

 

Tell me about Matt fortes lateral quickness 

[Nickster]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

And did well statistically with those targets.  

 

He did.  Also agree.   He's good at catching dumpoffs, screens, and an occasional wheel.

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Tell me about Matt fortes lateral quickness 

 

Edit not too hard to find.  "At the Combine, he (Matt Forte) recorded a 3 cone L drill of 6.84 seconds. This correlates to a 9.13 score out of 10.0."  He had elite lateral quickness. 

 

taylor was 7.01 which is 6.89 out of 10.  Meh lateral quickness.  Not special for a RB.

Read it and be humbled @jvan1973

 

You seem overconfident.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Nickster said:

 

We agree on that.  Marshall Faulk was the Shehoi Othani of the milleneum era football. 

Othani is like someone glitched the matrix and a create a player was born.   Like weird science,  but not Kelly LeBrock.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well he had 92 targets in 32 games his first two season.  That's a quite a few. 

 

I don't think Leonard Fournette has good receiving skills. He had 83 targets last season alone, and I bet most of those were in the rhythm of the offense, not while he was being dragged down by two tacklers. Probably none of them were left handed shotputs... 

 

Just saying I don't think the Colts offense has been a welcoming environment for any RB to be productive as a pass catcher over the last two seasons. But JT was pretty productive in a somewhat moderate sample in 2021, so it's not like he's bringing nothing to the table. Yeah, he's not Faulk or CMC or Kamara, but I don't think he's deficient as a pass catcher.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

He did.  Also agree.   He's good at catching dumpoffs, screens, and an occasional wheel.

No clue.  Don't care.

Forte had the 4th most catches by a back of all time in 2014.  Only CMC (twice) and Eckler have more.  

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Othani is like someone glitched the matrix and a create a player was born.   Like weird science,  but not Kelly LeBrock.

 

Babe Ruth without he hot dogs and beer.

 

I would't have gone for the knee shooters but a little more than champagne glass. 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think Leonard Fournette has good receiving skills. He had 83 targets last season alone, and I bet most of those were in the rhythm of the offense, not while he was being dragged down by two tacklers. Probably none of them were left handed shotputs... 

 

Just saying I don't think the Colts offense has been a welcoming environment for any RB to be productive as a pass catcher over the last two seasons. But JT was pretty productive in a somewhat moderate sample in 2021, so it's not like he's bringing nothing to the table. Yeah, he's not Faulk or CMC or Kamara, but I don't think he's deficient as a pass catcher.

 

Don't disagree and you don't think that he is an elite type of receiver.  So far as I can tell

[Superman]

So Irsay made it pretty clear what the plan is with Taylor. I think they intend to let him play out the season, and then see what happens. If he has a strong season, they'll make him an offer, possibly toward the end of the year. If he's not willing to accept, they can tag him.

 

In light of those comments, it seems likely that he wasn't talking about Taylor in his recent tweet. Still not great timing or PR, and JT's agent probably latched onto it because it was a great way to make a point about his client's contract. 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think Leonard Fournette has good receiving skills. He had 83 targets last season alone, and I bet most of those were in the rhythm of the offense, not while he was being dragged down by two tacklers. Probably none of them were left handed shotputs... 

 

Just saying I don't think the Colts offense has been a welcoming environment for any RB to be productive as a pass catcher over the last two seasons. But JT was pretty productive in a somewhat moderate sample in 2021, so it's not like he's bringing nothing to the table. Yeah, he's not Faulk or CMC or Kamara, but I don't think he's deficient as a pass catcher.

 

Fournette was likely helped with all the HOFers and otherworldly pass catching studs Tampa had rostered as well as the 2nd GOAT in the short passing game.  I think Rivers was the GOAT in that category.

 

So yeah you put Taylor on that team with that QB he can probably take more targets. 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Babe Ruth without he hot dogs and beer.

 

 

Babe wouldn't have made single A ball today.   He was great for his ERA 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Babe wouldn't have made single A ball today.   He was great for his ERA 

 

That is narrow minded.  Look at this analysis of the Babe's swing.  

Seriously, if you like baseball and are into this topic, enjoy this vid. 

 

https://www.theswingmechanic.com/blogs/baseball-swing/why-i-love-babe-ruths-swing-so-much

 

And a thing about the Babe that must be remembered is he's swinging a 42 ounce Redwood trunk out there.  Today's average is around 36.  

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

That is narrow minded.  Look at this analysis of the Babe's swing.  

Seriously, if you like baseball and are into this topic, enjoy this vid. 

 

https://www.theswingmechanic.com/blogs/baseball-swing/why-i-love-babe-ruths-swing-so-much

 

And a thing about the Babe that must be remembered is he's swinging a 42 ounce Redwood trunk out there.  Today's average is around 36.  

Fastballs were in the 80 mph range in his era.  Plus they didn't let black guys play.   Imagine babe getting 90 mph slider.  He was not an athlete in any way compared to today.    He could hammer a 73 mph hanging curve though.   He was great for his era

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, tweezy32 said:

 😂😂

A fastball of 82 in the 1920s.    My grandsons hit harder pitches in high schoolspan widget

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Which is why Ballard has said to let the season play out and see how it works together, which is what I said about JT the day SS was drafted.

Correcting what I typed.  I said to wait on JT the moment SS was HIRED, because SS might not want a straight ahead running RB with a low agility RAS score...who is an average pass blocker..as his RB beyond this season.

[Nickster]

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Fastballs were in the 80 mph range in his era. 

 

Fine.  But they also wore hats.  Pitchers put all kinds of substances on the ball to make it move more. And players got earholed (although come to think of it there was no earhole since they wore caps.  Walter Johnson pitched in the low to mid 90s and Joe wood threw harder than that and Ruth killed both guys. 

You also forget the dead ball era.

 

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Plus they didn't let black guys play.

 

Babe Ruth Barnstormed with blacks early in his career until they made him stop and by all accounts he knocked them around too.  Ruth was actually a big base stealer in his younger days. 

 

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 

   Imagine babe getting 90 mph slider.

 

If you watch the vid, you should see that he most likely would have adjusted to that or any pitch. 

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Why-Was-Babe-Ruth-the-Greatest-Baseball-Hitter-Ever

 

There is an even more nerdy video with all kinds of next Gen type numbers on torque, etc. that I can't locate easily right now. 

 

You also discount that you can't even throw high and tight hardly today.  A player can stand on the plate and if a pitcher comes up and in barely out of the zone a couple of times, he'll get tossed.

Back then they threw it in the ear and the guy got back up and back in the box.   

 

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 

 

 

  He was not an athlete in any way compared to today.

 

You are looking only at vid after he was in the league for 15 years.  He was fat later but so was Tony Gwynn.  Didn't seem to hurt Big Papi. 

25 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 

    He could hammer a 73 mph hanging curve though.   He was great for his era

 

He likely would have been great in this era too.  Ruth on Roids and supplements.  Yikes. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Fastballs were in the 80 mph range in his era.  Plus they didn't let black guys play.   Imagine babe getting 90 mph slider.  He was not an athlete in any way compared to today.    He could hammer a 73 mph hanging curve though.   He was great for his era

Willie Mays is the greatest player ever IMO. He played from 1951-1973. In his era, Integration already happened so blacks could play. Some Pitchers could actually throw 90-95 in his era as well. He hit 660 HR's, had over 3200 hits, and his career average was .302. He also won a NL League MVP in 1954 and 1965 and he won a WS Championship in 1954. 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Correcting what I typed.  I said to wait on JT the moment SS was HIRED, because SS might not want a straight ahead running RB with a low agility RAS score...who is an average pass blocker.

 

Maybe Dougie. 

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Fine.  But they also wore hats.  Pitchers put all kinds of substances on the ball to make it move more. And players got earholed (although come to think of it there was know earhole since they wore caps.  Walter Johnson pitched in the mid 90s and Joe wood threw harder than that and Ruth killed both guys. 

You also forget the dead ball era.

 

 

Babe Ruth Barnstormed with blacks early in his career until they made him stop and by all accounts he knocked them around too.  Ruth was actually a big base stealer in his younger days. 

 

 

If you watch the vid, you should see that he most likely would have adjusted to that or any pitch. 

 

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Why-Was-Babe-Ruth-the-Greatest-Baseball-Hitter-Ever

 

There is an even more nerdy video with all kinds of next Gen type numbers on torque, etc. that I can't locate easily right now. 

 

You also discount that you can't even throw high and tight hardly today.  A player can stand on the plate and if a pitcher comes up and in barely out of the zone a couple of times, he'll get tossed.

Back then they threw it in the ear and the guy got back up and back in the box.   

 

 

You are looking only at vid after he was in the league for 15 years.  He was fat later but so was Tony Gwynn.  Didn't seem to hurt Big Papi. 

 

He likely would have been great in this era too.  Ruth on Roids and supplements.  Yikes. 

You misspelled booze and dames

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Maybe Dougie. 

I know you think the read-option is in play as a staple of the offense, but I don't think it works with a young team on the rebuild.  Its what you do when you invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder like SF with Kaep, and it turns out he can have some usefulness.  I doubt Irsay is going to want to expose his pick 4 investment/franchise guy with all that many designed QB runs. 

 

Even with BALs success at getting the most out of Lamar at pick 32, there is still some obvious limitations.  And BAL was pretty much set in terms of defense and overall culture/identity when they plugged Lamar in.    I just see AR at pick 4 being an over investment if the plan is to have him run the ball a lot around the corner.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You misspelled booze and dames

 

Booze and dames and hot dogs.

 

Ruth was a different looking though in his late teens and twenties when he was in the league. 

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Willie Mays is the greatest player ever IMO. He played from 1951-1973. In his era, Integration already happened so blacks could play. Some Pitchers could actually throw 90 in his era as well. He hit 660 HR's, had over 3200 hits, and his career average was .302. He also won a NL League MVP in 1954 and 1965 and he won a WS Championship in 1954. 

I don't really get into the GOAT in baseball but give me mays or Aaron over any 20s era player.   

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know you think the read-option is in play as a staple of the offense, but I don't think it works with a young team on the rebuild.  Its what you do when you invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder like SF with Kaep, and it turns out he can have some usefulness.  I doubt Irsay is going to want to expose his pick 4 investment/franchise guy with all that many designed QB runs. 

 

Even with BALs success at getting the most out of Lamar at pick 32, there is still some obvious limitations.  And BAL was pretty much set in terms of defense and overall culture/identity when they plugged Lamar in.    I just see AR at pick 4 being an over investment if the plan is to have him run the ball a lot around the corner.

What are your thoughts on Josh Allen

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I know you think the read-option is in play as a staple of the offense, but I don't think it works with a young team on the rebuild.  Its what you do when you invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder like SF with Kaep, and it turns out he can have some usefulness.  I doubt Irsay is going to want to expose his pick 4 investment/franchise guy with all that many designed QB runs. 

 

I would be astounded if the drafted AR to be a drop back passer Doug.  

 

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Even with BALs success at getting the most out of Lamar at pick 32, there is still some obvious limitations.  And BAL was pretty much set in terms of defense and overall culture/identity when they plugged Lamar in.    I just see AR at pick 4 being an over investment if the plan is to have him run the ball a lot around the corner.

 

That's what Murray and Newton and the Bears just ran 11th pick Fields 160 times.  all very high picks.

I don't know what SS has in mind, but it seems like he might have what they did in Philly last year when they won the SB.   ie. run the QB.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

I don't really get into the GOAT in baseball but give me mays or Aaron over any 20s era player.   

Mays was better than Aaron partly because of his defense too but Aaron was great. I really don't count anything before 1947 because integration didn't take place until 1947. Players played MEH competition before then. I catch flack for that a lot but have many great points. Yankees fans scold me a lot because they won half their championships before 1947 and Babe will always be the GOAT to them.

[DougDew]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

What are your thoughts on Josh Allen

A QB who says he does not want to run the ball as much as he has.  I think Philly is the mold for our offense and how we would use AR.  Read option sometimes, but not as a staple the way Nick has been thinking, IMO.

 

Using AR and JT as sort of a two-man wishbone offense where AR runs outside and JT runs inside depending upon the QB read is not going to be a staple.  JMO.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I would be astounded if the drafted AR to be a drop back passer Doug.  

 

 

That's what Murray and Newton and the Bears just ran 11th pick Fields 160 times.  all very high picks.

I don't know what SS has in mind, but it seems like he might have what they did in Philly last year when they won the SB.   ie. run the QB.

 

Also types above:

 

Using AR and JT as sort of a two-man wishbone offense where AR runs outside and JT runs inside depending upon the QB read is not going to be a staple.  JMO.

 

If it turns out that way, then the Colts are simply trying to do what they can with AR because he can't do anything else.  Like Kaep, Lamar, and to some degree Hurts, but unlike AR, who all have/had full rostered teams around them.  But Hurts is a better all around player than the other two.

 

And Fields failed to create a viable offense or a winning record...because the rest of the team around him that is needed for that kind of QB to be a success....sucked.

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

A QB who says he does not want to run the ball as much as he has.  I think Philly is the mold for our offense and how we would use AR.  Read option sometimes, but not as a staple the way Nick has been thinking, IMO.

 

Using AR and JT as sort of a two-man wishbone offense where AR runs outside and JT runs inside depending upon the QB read is not going to be a staple.  JMO.

Not in the beginning anyway.   Minshew will be under center is my guess

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not in the beginning anyway.   Minshew will be under center is my guess

I don't like the way BUF uses Allen.  I think they do it because of poor coaching and foresight, just forcing him to make big plays either by running or passing, playing him to death so to speak.   SS and the new breed of HC might see things differently, but I don't think Irsay is on board with using his pick 4 QB like Earl Campbell.   

[Nickster]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

A QB who says he does not want to run the ball as much as he has.  I think Philly is the mold for our offense and how we would use AR.  Read option sometimes, but not as a staple the way Nick has been thinking, IMO.

 

I don't know if I'd say staple but a consistent threat.  It's going to be something that is run enough to be accounted for.  I see them running it a lot.  How many times will AR keep?  I'd guess around 3-4 per game. Unless the D crashes everyone toward the middle on every play.   

 

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Using AR and JT as sort of a two-man wishbone offense where AR runs outside and JT runs inside depending upon the QB read is not going to be a staple.  JMO.

 

Man when zone read works, its' like a QB scramble.  They're aren't any bid dudes left in the pic. 

[w87r]

22 minutes ago, Nickster said:

but it seems like he might have what they did in Philly last year when they won the SB

They lost the SB, but point stands.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I don't like the way BUF uses Allen.  I think they do it because of poor coaching and foresight, just forcing him to make big plays either by running or passing, playing him to death so to speak.   SS and the new breed of HC might see things differently, but I don't think Irsay is on board with using his pick 4 QB like Earl Campbell.   

 

Well Doug, he ran Jalen Hurts over 300 times in the last 2 seasons not including the playoffs which with 165 last season and another 45 carries in 4 playoff games.

That's quite a bit of running.