2020 CB position group: Past stats and poll

[EastStreet]

Decided to take a look at a few position groups, starting with CB.... 

We carried 5 or 6 CBs on the roster depending on the week. Assuming Ya-Sin, Moore, and Tell are safe, guessing we'll start the year with 6 assuming we drafted Rodgers and signed 2 vets (Rhodes, Carrie).

 

Will give my thoughts in a bit, but here's all the stats.

 

Rock Ya Sin

Age - 24

2019 Snaps - 851 (led all Colts D players)

Games missed  - 1

2019 PFF - 65.3 (78.1 in the last half of the season, 12th best of NFL CBs)

2019 PFF Tackling - 82.2 (7th best in the NFL, 2nd among rooks)

2019 PFF Coverage - 55.0 (first 8 games), 76.1 (last 7 games, allowing just a 67.7 passer rating)

Tackles - 61

TFL - 2

INT - 1

Passes Defended - 5

Forced Fumbles - 0

Fumble Recoveries - 1

Targets - 56

Receptions allowed - 36

Receptions/Targets - 64% 

Penalties - Tied for 8th most among CBs

 

2019 PFF All Rookie Team

 

 

Kenny Moore (last 3 years, IN x3, most recent first)

Age - 24

Snaps - 631 (7th), 910 (3rd), 381 (15th)

Games missed - 5, 1, 0

PFF - 75.5 (tied for 25th best CB), 71.0, 65.9

Tackles - 61, 77, 38

TFL - 4, 4, 2

INT - 2, 3, 1

Passes Defended - 3, 11, 5

Forced Fumbles - 0, 1, 1

Fumble Recovery - 1, 0, 0

Targets - 51, 88, 31

Receptions allowed - 39, 64, 21

Receptions/Targets - 76%, 73%, 68%

 

Xavier Rhodes (last 5 years - MN x5, most recent first)

Age - 29

Snaps - 795 (7th), 770 (5th), 904 (5th), 786 (7th), 1015 (1st)

Games missed - 1, 2, 0, 2, 0

PFF - 46.4 (2019), 58.2, 74.7, 73.8, 61.4

Tackles - 63, 47, 56, 52, 58

TFL - 5, 0, 1, 2, 1

INT - 0, 1, 2, 5, 1

Passes Defended - 6, 7, 10, 11, 11

Forced Fumbles - 1, 0, 0, 1, 0

Fumble Recovery - 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

Targets - 70, 69, 84, 75, 97

Receptions allowed - 59, 45, 46, 36, 60

Receptions/Targets - 84%, 65%, 55%, 48%, 62%

 

3× Pro Bowl (2016, 2017, 2019)

First-team All-Pro (2017)

Injury history - https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/xavier-rhodes/6699

 

 

T.J. Carrie (last 5 years, most recent first - Browns x2, Raiders x3)

Age 29

Snaps - 678 (8th), 907 (5th), 1023 (2nd), 325 (15th), 930 (4th)

Games missed - 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

PFF - 56.2, 66.9, 74.5, 65.0, 54.9

Tackles - 52, 74, 84, 25, 52

TFL - 4, 3, 3, 0, 0

INT - 1, 1, 0, 1, 1

Passes Defended - 4, 8, 9, 4, 9

Forced Fumbles - 1, 2, 0, 1, 1

Fumble Recovery - 1, 1, 2, 1, 0

Targets - 62, 87, 92, 33, 76

Receptions allowed - 46, 54, 64, 17, 47

Receptions/Targets - 74%, 62%, 70%, 52%, 62%

 

Marvell Tell III

Age 23

2019 Snaps - 252 (18th)

Games missed  - 0

2019 PFF - 67.6

Tackles - 26

TFL - 0

INT - 0

Passes Defended - 5

Forced Fumbles - 1

Fumble Recoveries - 0

Targets - 34

Receptions allowed - 22

Receptions/Targets - 65%

 

Other CB Candidates

Rookies

Isaiah Rodgers - 2020 6th round pick

https://umassathletics.com/sports/football/roster/isaiah-rodgers/11529

Travis Reed - new UDFA 

https://usajaguars.com/sports/football/roster/travis-reed/8415

 

Claims, etc.

Picasso Nelson Jr - UDFA, 2 years in the league on practice squads

https://southernmiss.com/sports/football/roster/picasso-nelson-jr-/3885

Lafayette Pitts - UDFA, 4 years in the league on practice squads and STs

https://pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/football/roster/lafayette-pitts/1147

Jackson Porter - UDFA, 2 years in the league on practice squads

https://umassathletics.com/sports/football/roster/jackson-porter/8520

 

 

 

The Player Grading Scale:

100-90 Elite

89-85 Pro Bowler

84-70 Starter

69-60 Backup

59-0 Replaceable

[EastStreet]

After digesting stats, injury history, trending, etc...

 

Likely depth
CB1 - Ya-sin, Rhodes
CB2 - Rhodes, Tell, Rodgers
NB - Moore, Carrie

 

Ya-Sin - Given he was playing at a high level the 2nd half of the season (12th best CB per PFF), I have to give him the nod as CB1. He was a great tackler all year, but really improved in coverage after week 9. Year 2 could be really nice for the kid.

 

Moore - He's got to stay healthy (missed 5 games last year), but he's obviously the starting nickelback. I could also see him as CB2 while not in nickel or if there's injury to Ya-Sin or Rhodes, but would prefer he stay as a pure nickel.

 

Rhodes - Assuming he's healthy, I like him as CB2 at least while in Nickel (which is really our most used D). Or, he could simply be on the downward spiral at 29 years old lol. Hope not. If he can return to his 2017 and 2016 level of play, a starting 3 of Ya-Sin, Rhodes, and Moore could be pretty scary.

 

TJ Carrie - another aging vet like Rhodes, but more of a NB. Should be a good backup or insurance policy should Moore miss games again. When Moore went out last year, the shuffling around to fill the hole, and the playbook changes, definitely impacted things. I think Carrie solves that issue.

 

Tell - played well in spot duty last year after switching from college FS. If Rhodes can't return to form, I like him as CB2. At the same time, safety is probably our weekest group in terms of depth, so I could also see him moving back. I hope he sticks at CB as Rhodes and Carrie have limited time left, and Rodgers needs to gain some good weight if he's going to emerge as an option at CB.

 

Rodgers - It's probably too much to ask that he contribute at CB early in his career given his weight (170lbs), but he's got great upside if he can gain 15lbs of good weight over the next year or so. His potential at returns is pretty enticing, so I'm going to assume he'll make the roster as our 6th CB. 

 

The others - All seem to be just JAGs except maybe Reed. He's got good size like Tell, and might be a possible project move to FS. I definitely could see Reed on the PS. The others are long shots.

 

Overall - I love Ya-Sin and Moore, but the rest are wildcards. Lot's of potential though. I guess 2 of 3 is good, and plenty of potential to fill the 3rd spot (CB2) and depth. If the pass rush improves like we think it will, this group, and DB in general could look night and day compared to last year.

[w87r]

My votes are reflected on the poll.

 

Appreciate the work putting stats together

 

Depth chart looks good to me.

[EastStreet]

26 minutes ago, w87r said:

My votes are reflected on the poll.

 

Appreciate the work putting stats together

 

Depth chart looks good to me.

I've got some extra time and bored lol, so back to it. Glad you enjoy.

 

Ya think Rhodes will get it together enough to return to 2017 form? Half of me thinks he will, the other thinks he might totally bomb (and maybe cut) and Tell ends up CB2.

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, if Moore gets dinged up again...not good for the defense.

 

I wasn’t a big fan of taking Rock but I also understand that he had a pretty decent rookie season outside of a really bad game. Still, I’m in wait and see mode. Can’t help but think he’s gonna be the type to be a step behind/have a tendency to draw flags throughout his career. Although I will say he’s a physical/willing tackler and that’s important in our scheme. Great mindset too. 

 

I like Tell, thought he showed promise, it’s just that I like the idea of him at FS even more, but it is what it is. And I have absolutely no idea what to expect with Rhodes but hoping for the best.

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, if Moore gets dinged up again...not good for the defense.

 

I wasn’t a big fan of taking Rock but I also understand that he had a pretty decent rookie season outside of a really bad game. Still, I’m in wait and see mode. Can’t help but think he’s gonna be the type to be a step behind/have a tendency to draw flags throughout his career. Although I will say he’s a physical/willing tackler and that’s important in our scheme. Great mindset too. 

 

I like Tell, thought he showed promise, it’s just that I like the idea of him at FS even more, but it is what it is. And I have absolutely no idea what to expect with Rhodes but hoping for the best.

Rock really is a tale of two seasons. Like I noted below, he graded out at as the 12th best CB in the NFL the 2nd half of the season with a huge improvement in pass coverage. His penalties dropped off big time as well. He comes from a "man" D, so the stickiness is, or was, part of the game. I think it was Ballard (might have been Flus) that said they picked him because of his "man" skills, which coincided with Flus also stating he wanted to play more man D. IMO, given his snaps, he did a hell of a job as a rook, and was close to being top 10 the last half of the year.

 

On Tell, I think one of the biggest reasons they moved him to CB is because he's not a good tackler, and some say avoids contact. IMO he'd only work out at FS if we played a lot less zone, and was able to roam center field. But that's exactly the type of situation that would help Hooker too. 

 

On Moore, while I don't see Carrie as a replacement, I think he'll definitely be good depth at NB. If Moore goes down, at least we won't have to totally reshuffle or minimize the playbook given Carrie's experience.

[Fisticuffs111]

^ that makes sense about Tell. He’s a pretty slight guy, or at least it seems so. I was surprised by some tackles he made in that respect though, he launched himself into a few guys from what I remember. Wouldn’t be surprised if that was a focus point from the coaches.

 

As for Rock, I knew he graded out well for a rookie but didn’t know that stat. That’s impressive. I admit to being on the slightly pessimistic side with him (probably stubborn in my pre-draft outlook) at least in terms of agility/quickness. But with his work ethic and mentality, not to mention his natural ability to play the ball, it’s hard to bet against him.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

^ that makes sense about Tell. He’s a pretty slight guy, or at least it seems so. I was surprised by some tackles he made in that respect though, he launched himself into a few guys from what I remember. Wouldn’t be surprised if that was a focus point from the coaches.

 

As for Rock, I knew he graded out well for a rookie but didn’t know that stat. That’s impressive. I admit to being on the slightly pessimistic side with him (probably stubborn in my pre-draft outlook) at least in terms of agility/quickness. But with his work ethic and mentality, not to mention his natural ability to play the ball, it’s hard to bet against him.

Rock is a very interesting player to me. He's great at press-man (which we didn't play a lot of last year), but struggled big time in zone, and with his footwork early in the year. That of course improved a lot later in the year. I wouldn't call a burner, but very decent speed at 4.51. That's plenty in press man. Perhaps not that great in zone, but still not bad.

 

Keep in mind he started off at Presb then moved to Temple for his final two years (had to learn a new system) and ended up all AAC. Quick learner, so not surprised in his improvement. If we play more man, I think he'll look like stud. I also think he'd be perfect for NB (like PB level), but no way we can afford to move him there. It'll be interesting to see him in year 2. Nothing would surprise me though. Kid's just a hardworking, gritty, competitor.

 

 

I followed Tell going back to his HS days in Encino, as ND was recruiting him. IIRC was a high 4 star kid, and some services had him as a 5 star. Had ups and downs at USC, but put together a really nice 2017 season. his 2018 season was a mix, but pretty sure he was injured part of it.

 

I wouldn't call him slight as he's 6-2 and 195ish, but I would say tall and a bit skinny for that height (at S). He's lean no doubt about it, but looks very strong. Pro day pic below. If he were moving back to S, I'd say he should pick up some muscle for sure, but I'm good with his measurements as CB. Don't want him to lose speed. 

 

I'm sure the coaching staff was pretty straight forward with him about his rep (of avoiding contact). So if he's sincere about his work ethic and desire to play, going to trust that he's putting in the work to improve. If he can develop into a hit-man, I'd love to see him either place (CB or S) just so we can get the 5 best DBs on the field at the same time.