Willis starting over Gaethers?

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I think there's a danger with any position of getting enamoured with the 40 time, I'd put 3 cone over it certainly. However, as always never go by just one metric, and never put metrics over film. 

 

For all that was written about him being a below average athlete, if you compare  him to some of the 'good' SS's in the league he matches up pretty well:

 

Willis 4.55s (40)/7.15s (3 Cone)

Collins 4.53s (40)/7.53s (3 Cone)

Chancellor 4.69s (40)/7.36s (3 Cone)

Jones  4.51s (40)/7.43s (3 Cone) 

Adams  4.56s (40)/6.96s (3 Cone) 

 

etc etc... 

At SS or Box, I agree on 40 not being a prime requisite. Chancellor was always a wild case, and clearly an exception to most norms. I think he went to college as a QB, played LB, and ended up going to S. Truly one of a kind story. 

 

On Willis, I think most of the below average comments and write ups are about non box situations. In short intermediate areas, he looks fluid and plays fast with great instinct. Outside of that (deep), he looks more mechanical to me. 

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

what willis lacks in speed his instincts for the ball more than make up for it

Both speed and instinct are plenty good for the box. He's got great leadership attributes as well.

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He’s just as fast as Jamal Adams...

No he's not. Adams has run several times sub 4.4 times. He had a very bad combine. IIRC, he ran 4.3s in his pro day. Most expected low 4.4s at the combine at most.

[SteelCityColt]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

At SS or Box, I agree on 40 not being a prime requisite. Chancellor was always a wild case, and clearly an exception to most norms. I think he went to college as a QB, played LB, and ended up going to S. Truly one of a kind story. 

 

On Willis, I think most of the below average comments and write ups are about non box situations. In short intermediate areas, he looks fluid and plays fast with great instinct. Outside of that (deep), he looks more mechanical to me. 

 

Are you talking playing "speed" in deep situations, as in he's slower to react when the play isn't in front of him, or his technique/agility? 

 

Just seems like he's been written off as not being athletic enough, when his measurable are plenty good enough for a SS, and it's only really the 3 cone he falls short on when compared to a lot of FS which could be a indicator of not being as agile. 

 

I like him plenty, and think we might have got another late round safety steal. On a side note, I didn't realise how good Bethea's combine measurables were. 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Are you talking playing "speed" in deep situations, as in he's slower to react when the play isn't in front of him, or his technique/agility? 

 

Just seems like he's been written off as not being athletic enough, when his measurable are plenty good enough for a SS, and it's only really the 3 cone he falls short on when compared to a lot of FS which could be a indicator of not being as agile. 

 

I like him plenty, and think we might have got another late round safety steal. On a side note, I didn't realise how good Bethea's combine measurables were. 

He looks plenty good enough to me.

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Are you talking playing "speed" in deep situations, as in he's slower to react when the play isn't in front of him, or his technique/agility? 

 

Just seems like he's been written off as not being athletic enough, when his measurable are plenty good enough for a SS, and it's only really the 3 cone he falls short on when compared to a lot of FS which could be a indicator of not being as agile. 

 

I like him plenty, and think we might have got another late round safety steal. On a side note, I didn't realise how good Bethea's combine measurables were. 

Yup, 4.39 lol (Bethea). I'm going to hold off on Bethea comparisons though...

 

On Willis, I think he's plenty athletic for box, and I agree (we might have gotten a steal). To me, he's great at things in front of him, and keeping up with TEs etc crossing in short duration. Where he looks to struggle at least to me is turning his hips on a vertical route. I'm also not sure he's had to defend a speed guy. He played sparingly against LAC and ATL, and KC was without their two top WRs (those being the best passing teams we've played). 

 

Overall, I'm very pleased, and he's totally surpassed my expectations so far. Trying to keep my expectations in check though until the end of the season. I see him being tested a lot more vs TB, NO, Houston, and Jax x 2. To add, I saw some graphic/tweet talking about # of targets, and he seemed to be on low end of Ss (in quantity).

[Defjamz26]

On 11/13/2019 at 8:54 PM, EastStreet said:

No he's not. Adams has run several times sub 4.4 times. He had a very bad combine. IIRC, he ran 4.3s in his pro day. Most expected low 4.4s at the combine at most.

Even so you’re only talking a couple tenths of a second difference. He’s not significantly slower than Adams. He’s definitely not as fast as Darnell Savage though. But compared to Adams, his measureables stack up similarly. He’s just not nearly as talented.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Even so you’re only talking a couple tenths of a second difference. He’s not significantly slower than Adams. He’s definitely not as fast as Darnell Savage though. But compared to Adams, his measureables stack up similarly. He’s just not nearly as talented.

4.3s capable vs 4.5s is very significant from a speed perspective. You can argue that "field" speed is important, and it is, but natural speed combined with field speed is very significant. 

[SteelCityColt]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:26 PM, EastStreet said:

4.3s capable vs 4.5s is very significant from a speed perspective. You can argue that "field" speed is important, and it is, but natural speed combined with field speed is very significant. 

 

Yes tenths of a second are important in a straight line sprint race, roughly would equate to a meter difference. Why I still argue the 3 cone is more important as it features the stop/cut/accelerate movements you're more likely to see on a football field. 

 

"Field speed", by which I guess you mean the mental ability to read and react to the football situation on the fly I think is far more important on defense. 

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Yes tenths of a second are important in a straight line sprint race, roughly would equate to a meter difference. Why I still argue the 3 cone is more important as it features the stop/cut/accelerate movements you're more likely to see on a football field. 

 

"Field speed", by which I guess you mean the mental ability to read and react to the football situation on the fly I think is far more important on defense. 

Field speed to me is agility + IQ (being in the right place). 

 

So includes 3 cone and just having a nose for the ball. Sorry, should have qualified it with definition.