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WoolMagnet

Manning IS The GOAT (argue at your own risk)

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Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

Sounds like a homer position to me.

 

Perhaps.  As I've mentioned several times, I admire Brady.

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7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

The major difference is that Manning was investigate and cleared. 

Ehh... sort of.

 

Manning was investigated and the investigators reported they had no direct evidence of wrongdoing.  They also apparently had a heck of a time getting third party witnesses to cooperate and thus couldn't really build any evidence one way or another.

 

Since nearly everyone involved in Deflategate was an NFL employee they could be alot more aggressive in factfinding than they could in trying to corroborate Manning's issues.  most of the people who knew the most about Manning's thing had no reason to talk to the NFL and potential consequences if they did.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/25/peyton-manning-nfl-hgh-investigation-al-jazeera

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Ehh... sort of.

 

Manning was investigated and the investigators reported they had no direct evidence of wrongdoing.  They apparently had a heck of a time getting third party witnesses to cooperate and thus couldn't really build any evidence one way or another.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/07/25/peyton-manning-nfl-hgh-investigation-al-jazeera

 

 

Oh man, you're hilarious.... keep reaching.

 

Quote from the very first paragraph of the article

 

"After a seven-month investigation, the NFL announced on Monday that it found “no credible evidence” Peyton Manning used human growth hormone (HGH) or other substances in violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy. "

 

So again, Manning was investigated and cleared, Brady was investigated and suspended for 4 games.

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh man, you're hilarious.... keep reaching.

 

Quote from the very first paragraph of the article

 

"After a seven-month investigation, the NFL announced on Monday that it found “no credible evidence” Peyton Manning used human growth hormone (HGH) or other substances in violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy. "

 

So again, Manning was investigated and cleared, Brady was investigated and suspended for 4 games.

And if the same standard of evidence had been used in both investigations, I'm not convinced the verdicts would have been very different.

 

But I'm talking to someone who seems not to really understand just how much decisions at the NFL office are driven by the internal politics of the Board of Governors, so this will probably make no sense to you.  Let's just say that Jim Irsay holds a lot of power on the Board, and has a lot of friends.   He's gotten several rules changes and personnel changes at the NFL office over the years as a result of the considerable power he holds.

 

Robert Kraft has been a bit of an outsider on the board, especially because his franchise has embarrassed most of the others on the field over the years.  There's some bad blood there, especially with Irsay and the Rooneys, two of the most powerful faction leaders in the Board of Governors.  When Jerry Jones also weighed in against the Patriots it was game over, the investigation was going to ome back with punishments whether there was any actual evidence or not.  That's how politics works in an oligarchy, and the NFL is an oligarchy.  

 

Irsay can make problems at the NFL office go away in a way that Kraft really can't.  To me, that's really what's going on in the difference between the two investigations.  In one case, the owner could pull strings and bury an investigation.  In the other, the accumulated bad blood between Robert Kraft and the other owners spilled over and no one was willing to help him protect his guy.

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22 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

And if the same standard of evidence had been used in both investigations, I'm not convinced the verdicts would have been very different.

 

But I'm talking to someone who seems not to really understand just how much decisions at the NFL office are driven by the internal politics of the Board of Governors, so this will probably make no sense to you.  Let's just say that Jim Irsay holds a lot of power on the Board, and has a lot of friends.   He's gotten several rules changes and personnel changes at the NFL office over the years as a result of the considerable power he holds.

 

Robert Kraft has been a bit of an outsider on the board, especially because his franchise has embarrassed most of the others on the field over the years.  There's some bad blood there, especially with Irsay and the Rooneys, two of the most powerful faction leaders in the Board of Governors.  When Jerry Jones also weighed in against the Patriots it was game over, the investigation was going to ome back with punishments whether there was any actual evidence or not.  That's how politics works in an oligarchy, and the NFL is an oligarchy.  

 

Irsay can make problems at the NFL office go away in a way that Kraft really can't.  To me, that's really what's going on in the difference between the two investigations.  In one case, the owner could pull strings and bury an investigation.  In the other, the accumulated bad blood between Robert Kraft and the other owners spilled over and no one was willing to help him protect his guy.

I sit next to a Patriot fan at work, and even he doesn't spout nonsense like this.

 

But let me see if I can summarize your stance.

 

The Patriots didn't really cheat because everyone does it.

 

Brady didn't cheat but was investigated and falsely suspended.  Manning did cheat and was investigated and falsely cleared.

 

The only reason Brady was suspended and Manning was cleared was because Irsay has more pull in the NFL system than Kraft?

 

The double standards and delusions from your posts go well beyond anything I have seen on this forum.  You can respond or reply to this post but I'm done (I should have been done a long time ago) with this line because there is no discussing something with someone that totally ignores facts and logic to spout this type of nonsense.

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I think we've reached the point that neither of us are going to convince the other.  I'm good to be done too

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8 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

probably a worse one than deflated footballs if we're all being honest

 

I disagree.  IF Manning and Luck were using HGH, it was because significant injuries made them unable to play the game they love.  They were just trying to get healthy enough to play again as quickly as possible.

 

IF Brady was in any way involved in over-deflated footballs, then we're talking about an unfair on-field competitive advantage over another team in-game (albeit, probably a relatively slight advantage).  Now you're messing with the integrity of the game.  That, to me, is much more serious than using any means necessary to get healthy enough just to be on the field playing the game.  :2c:

 

10 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

The possibility of someone at the bottom of the proverbial food chain messing around in a way that causes his bosses grief isn't just plausible, it's practically inevitable.

 

You really believe that?  The equipment guys went rogue and over-deflated the balls without Brady knowing it?  With a guy like BB at the top, who is meticulous with his entire organization, you really think some equipment guys did anything without BBs knowledge or permission (or even instruction)?  And that BB wouldn't have Brady in the loop about the benefits of under-inflated balls?

 

812c51eb-3acc-4e7c-8c2f-30d8c2f256d0.jpg

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