Pagono May Want Us To Draft Defense First

[WSO]

If Manning believes he can still play at a high level, I'll take that over any doctor or Colts medical assistant. Regardless, my Colts are my Colts and if Manning leaves, I wish him a lot of success that he may not have been able to achieve on an aging, changing, and horrible team.

So why is it ok for Manning to believe he can play at a high level but its not ok for Luck to believe he can come to this franchise and be a good qb? What makes an aging QB with 3 surgeries who is still not healthy a more spectacular choice over a young QB who is touted as one of the best prospects of all time (A once in a lifetime type of player) ?

[icf]

..and I'd say that nothing is 99%

What's funny is the certainty experessed here when the whole team is in limbo

The team is limbo -- totally agree -- there will likely be lots of changes between now and early Sept.

That said -- Luck is all but a certainty to come here. People need to realize that and quit trying to infer from every little thing how this or that means they wont take Luck #1.

[Superman]

So why is it ok for Manning to believe he can play at a high level but its not ok for Luck to believe he can come to this franchise and be a good qb? What makes an aging QB with 3 surgeries who is still not healthy a more spectacular choice over a young QB who is touted as one of the best prospects of all time (A once in a lifetime type of player) ?

We know that Manning is a great NFL quarterback. Only question is his health. We don't know what Andrew Luck will be. He can be the best prospect since Anakin Skywalker for all we know, but he's still a prospect.

[betheafan41]

I'm not the one who is infuriated...

'Taking the kid down a peg'? ts an Indianapolis message board

...Its the NFL...all deals must be considered.....Manning is a Colt...

'The kid' isnt ours yet..

But if and when he is..there's a possibility he sits behind our franchise player.

You're Colts fan, right?

Peyton Manning is your player. You dont agree there's a chance he'll be back in the fall?

Im a very big colts fan, to the point that i have a extra bedroom that has a colts couch in it, posters of manning,wayne, freeney,bethea, clark, Marvin harrison, even have one of johnny unitas that was very hard to find and bought off a guy for 20 bucks.... footbal field rug, colts mini fridge.....ok enough about that lol

on to the topic of manning, peyton WAS a great qb and i appreciate everything he has done for the colts, even giving a superbowl championship.., but after all is said and done his injury is to serious and i do not see him back in a colts uniform next year. even his doctor has said there is no realistic timetable to give on how long it will be before he can play again. his nerves are messed up and its preventing him from havin the strength in his throwing arm back to normal. and Irsay sees that and is being optimistic about the situation hoping he will be healthy by march 8th, but i doubt he will and come march 8th prob sometime in the morning we will all see that manning was released and he prob is going to retire.

[WSO]

We know that Manning is a great NFL quarterback. Only question is his health. We don't know what Andrew Luck will be. He can be the best prospect since Anakin Skywalker for all we know, but he's still a prospect.

Do you mean great as in he can still light it up right now or great as in his accomplishments over his career thus far?

[IcyRhythms]

So why is it ok for Manning to believe he can play at a high level but its not ok for Luck to believe he can come to this franchise and be a good qb? What makes an aging QB with 3 surgeries who is still not healthy a more spectacular choice over a young QB who is touted as one of the best prospects of all time (A once in a lifetime type of player) ?

I'm going to use two names in response to this post and it will be all that needs to be said.

Ryan Leaf....

Reggie Bush...

>>> it...I'll go one more with Matt Leinart

[braveheartcolt]

Thats why the Packers and Saints are playing in the SB

Didn't they win 2 out of last 3?

[Blue Horseshoe]

I'd rather work on the offensive line but building the defense makes a lot more sense than wasting the pick on a backup quarterback with a big head due to excessive media hype.

[WSO]

Didn't they win 2 out of last 3?

The Packers defense was very good the year they won that SB. The Saints defense if I recall (I may have to look it up) was league leading in takeovers or amongst the top.

As opposed to this year both defenses were not good.

[WSO]

I'm going to use two names in response to this post and it will be all that needs to be said.

Ryan Leaf....

Reggie Bush...

>>> it...I'll go one more with Matt Leinart

And this logic works how?

Lets use your logic...

All that needs to be said:

John Elway

Peyton Manning

[Blue Horseshoe]

And this logic works how?

Lets use your logic...

All that needs to be said:

John Elway

Peyton Manning

Jeff George

[Superman]

Do you mean great as in he can still light it up right now or great as in his accomplishments over his career thus far?

The only question about Manning is whether he's healthy or not. If he is, then yes, he can light it up right now, no question. Not to mention his previous accomplishments. These are the reasons some people would prefer a healthy Manning to drafting Andrew Luck.

[Bleedin Blue]

I don't know what makes Luck such a can't miss player? Maybe everyone just believes what they are told, facts are his numbers weren't any better than Barkley's who played on a far less talented team. Luck even got out played in his bowl game this year despite their running back avging 5.5yds a carry. Now I'm no Luck hater I just implore fans not to think he is the next Peyton, other then him being a good kid I don't see what makes him special.

Since looks like the Colts atleast want everyone to think taking him I hope he turns out great

I think you need to rewatch that game. He wasn't outplayed by Wedden at all. Stanford's secondary was out-played by Blackmon. Luck demonstrated in that game that he can break down defenses, call the right plays, scramble to help get players open, make all the tough throws, etc. and he did this against one of the better defenses in college football. Weeden was facing a mediocre PAC-12 defense that could clearly not handle Blackmon or the other receivers. I agree with you that Barkley looks at least as good as Luck too but he isn't coming out this year so it's a moot point. The odds of us getting the #1 pick next year is slim-to-none and we would have to trade a mountain of picks that we would have gotten this year for Luck to do it so it would be a wash. Luck is the best QB in this draft IMHO.

[WSO]

The only question about Manning is whether he's healthy or not. If he is, then yes, he can light it up right now, no question. Not to mention his previous accomplishments. These are the reasons some people would prefer a healthy Manning to drafting Andrew Luck.

You basically stated the obvious. OF COURSE a healthy Manning will likely light it up. Andrew Luck is a safer pick at this point in time right now.

[Bleedin Blue]

I think Luck only missed on 4 passes in that bowl game? He didnt get out played. I think they got outcoached

No, they got out-kicked.

[oldunclemark]

Jeff George

That's cold, Blue

[Smitto]

colts will draft a Luck or Griffin there's no boubt about it... now after that thats where i think defense comes in... unless they wanna go WR which i can totally understand, really want a big target at WR... and its 34th overall pick in the 2nd round

[Blue Horseshoe]

You basically stated the obvious. OF COURSE a healthy Manning will likely light it up. Andrew Luck is a safer pick at this point in time right now.

Based on what? The man hasn't even thrown a single professional pass.

[WSO]

Jeff George

You're right, Jeff George was touted as one of the greatest prospects ever

[WSO]

Based on what? The man hasn't even thrown a single professional pass.

So right now you would rather have a Manning that is not healthy, 36 coming off 3 surgeries as QB than a young QB prospect who has proven he can run an NFL style offense? Please pass what you're smoking.

[IcyRhythms]

And this logic works how?

Lets use your logic...

All that needs to be said:

John Elway

Peyton Manning

right lol

Elway and Manning once in a generation type players

I said that

No gurantee for luck to be successful. As a Colt fan, I remain hopeful. I just won't get hope to high.

[WSO]

right lol

Elway and Manning once in a generation type players

I said that

No gurantee for luck to be successful. As a Colt fan, I remain hopeful. I just won't get hope to high.

Luck is in that same class. ESPN did a great segment comparing Luck to Elway, Manning, and Matt Ryan.

[Superman]

You basically stated the obvious. OF COURSE a healthy Manning will likely light it up. Andrew Luck is a safer pick at this point in time right now.

You asked why is it reasonable to believe Manning can play at a high level, as opposed to believing Luck will be a good quarterback. I answered, and it's because we KNOW what Manning is, when healthy. We only THINK we know what Luck is.

I'm a Luck fan, by the way. I think we should draft him, no matter what, and if Manning is healthy, we should keep him too. That's my opinion. I might be in the minority, because I think people have this delusion that the two can't co-exist. I think you'd be getting the best of both worlds, although it would be costly and a slight gamble. But it could still work, I think. Just understand, I'm not knocking Luck. But if I HAD to choose between him and Manning, assuming Manning is healthy, I'm going with four years of Manning instead of drafting a rookie quarterback. Manning is proven. Luck is still, to a great extent, an unknown quantity.

[Blue Horseshoe]

So right now you would rather have a Manning that is not healthy, 36 coming off 3 surgeries as QB than a young QB prospect who has proven he can run an NFL style offense? Please pass what you're smoking.

Absolutely. Without a moment of hesitation.

Luck scares the heck out of me.

[WSO]

You asked why is it reasonable to believe Manning can play at a high level, as opposed to believing Luck will be a good quarterback. I answered, and it's because we KNOW what Manning is, when healthy. We only THINK we know what Luck is.

I'm a Luck fan, by the way. I think we should draft him, no matter what, and if Manning is healthy, we should keep him too. That's my opinion. I might be in the minority, because I think people have this delusion that the two can't co-exist. I think you'd be getting the best of both worlds, although it would be costly and a slight gamble. But it could still work, I think. Just understand, I'm not knocking Luck. But if I HAD to choose between him and Manning, assuming Manning is healthy, I'm going with four years of Manning instead of drafting a rookie quarterback. Manning is proven. Luck is still, to a great extent, an unknown quantity.

I said why as in Manning post surgery. Manning post surgery is just as much of a "?" as Luck. Its like a blank sheet. Even if Manning is healthy, does he return to his old form? Who knows how the surgery affected him. That is my point that a post surgery Manning is still no guarantee healthy or not. Just as much as Luck. I dont see how its okay to think post surgery Manning can play at a high level but not Luck. They both have an equal oppportunity to come in and have an impact.

[WSO]

Absolutely. Without a moment of hesitation.

Luck scares the heck out of me.

And based on what? I would like to know what makes you believe Manning in his current state is a better QB than Luck.

[Superman]

Luck is in that same class. ESPN did a great segment comparing Luck to Elway, Manning, and Matt Ryan.

We don't know WHAT class Luck is in. No matter how good we think he might be, he isn't Elway or Manning. He's not even Matt Ryan (who is two or three classes lower than Elway and Manning). He has to earn that designation in the NFL.

[WSO]

We don't know WHAT class Luck is in. No matter how good we think he might be, he isn't Elway or Manning. He's not even Matt Ryan (who is two or three classes lower than Elway and Manning). He has to earn that designation in the NFL.

I'm talking about NFL prospects. How is it possible ESPN did that segment otherhow? Geez. It was looking at their mechanics etc. not their NFL careers.

[oldunclemark]

So right now you would rather have a Manning that is not healthy, 36 coming off 3 surgeries as QB than a young QB prospect who has proven he can run an NFL style offense? Please pass what you're smoking.

I'll take both of them, thank you.

Get ready for Pey-Luck...coming to your town this fall!!!

[Blue Horseshoe]

And based on what? I would like to know what makes you believe Manning in his current state is a better QB than Luck.

Because I know what Manning can do and it goes way beyond throwing the football. Luck has done none of that.

Maybe he could in time but I'll take my chances with the proven rather than see what's being curtain 2.

But the biggest problem is the hype. Luck is going to end up being a malcontent because he is being told he is God's Gift to Football before he has done anything to merit it. This whole thing has disaster written all over it.

[Superman]

I said why as in Manning post surgery. Manning post surgery is just as much of a "?" as Luck. Its like a blank sheet. Even if Manning is healthy, does he return to his old form? Who knows how the surgery affected him. That is my point that a post surgery Manning is still no guarantee healthy or not. Just as much as Luck. I dont see how its okay to think post surgery Manning can play at a high level but not Luck. They both have an equal oppportunity to come in and have an impact.

No it's not. Manning is purely a medical consideration at this point. As he continues to be evaluated, it will be clear at some point, hopefully soon, whether he's medically fit or not. Once that's determined, there is no question whether he'll be a good quarterback or not. Either he's healthy and the nerves are good, or he's not.

Luck can get drafted into the NFL and completely bomb. Despite his pre-draft status as the greatest prospect since whoever. My money is firmly on Luck being a good NFL quarterback. If he winds up being Tony Romo or Phillip Rivers, that's still a good draft pick. If he's Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, even better. But if there's an 85% chance that he becomes a good NFL quarterback, there's still a 15% chance that he won't. I don't see that happening, but my crystal ball hasn't been tuned-up in a while, so what I see or don't see doesn't matter. Same for you, or anyone else.

I think, because he's a quarterback, and because he's such a great prospect, you HAVE to take him. If he bombs, at least you can say "everyone would have taken him, he was the best prospect since Elway," and people would have nod their heads and feel sorry for you. But if you don't take him, and he winds up being a perennial Pro Bowler, then you look stupid.

But if -- IF -- I had to choose between Manning, with his injury issues, and Luck, as a draft pick, I'm choosing Manning. So long as Manning is cleared medically.

[WSO]

Because I know what Manning can do and it goes way beyond throwing the football. Luck has done none of that.

Maybe he could in time but I'll take my chances with the proven rather than see what's being curtain 2.

But the biggest problem is the hype. Luck is going to end up being a malcontent because he is being told he is God's Gift to Football before he has done anything to merit it. This whole thing has disaster written all over it.

So you have seen Manning play recently yes? Now if you made the argument that 2010 Manning is a better QB than Luck I would probably agree. I dont understand how a QB who hasn't played since, cannot even play right now is a better QB than Luck. This is hilarious.

[oldunclemark]

Everyone is undefeated before they play a game..

[Superman]

I'm talking about NFL prospects. How is it possible ESPN did that segment otherhow? Geez. It was looking at their mechanics etc. not their NFL careers.

There have been plenty of great NFL prospects. Sometimes, they don't work out.

[ConBro]

Irsay has made it really really really clear that they are taking a QB with the #1 pick.

This. Pagano is a COACH. Irsay is the OWNER. His say comes first.

[Blue Horseshoe]

So you have seen Manning play recently yes? Now if you made the argument that 2010 Manning is a better QB than Luck I would probably agree. I dont understand how a QB who hasn't played since, cannot even play right now is a better QB than Luck. This is hilarious.

Because I trust Manning's ability to heal a lot more than I trust some unknown.

Let's not forget that Manning played 5 seasons, including 2 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs with the injury.

Now it has been repaired. My money is on Manning, the safer bet.

[oldunclemark]

This. Pagano is a COACH. Irsay is the OWNER. His say comes first.

Pagano and Manning may change Irsay's mind....6 weeks to go

[WSO]

No it's not. Manning is purely a medical consideration at this point. As he continues to be evaluated, it will be clear at some point, hopefully soon, whether he's medically fit or not. Once that's determined, there is no question whether he'll be a good quarterback or not. Either he's healthy and the nerves are good, or he's not.

Luck can get drafted into the NFL and completely bomb. Despite his pre-draft status as the greatest prospect since whoever. My money is firmly on Luck being a good NFL quarterback. If he winds up being Tony Romo or Phillip Rivers, that's still a good draft pick. If he's Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, even better. But if there's an 85% chance that he becomes a good NFL quarterback, there's still a 15% chance that he won't. I don't see that happening, but my crystal ball hasn't been tuned-up in a while, so what I see or don't see doesn't matter. Same for you, or anyone else.

I think, because he's a quarterback, and because he's such a great prospect, you HAVE to take him. If he bombs, at least you can say "everyone would have taken him, he was the best prospect since Elway," and people would have nod their heads and feel sorry for you. But if you don't take him, and he winds up being a perennial Pro Bowler, then you look stupid.

But if -- IF -- I had to choose between Manning, with his injury issues, and Luck, as a draft pick, I'm choosing Manning. So long as Manning is cleared medically.

So Manning post surgery is not a question mark? You are saying you have proof that Manning post surgery will come in and continue to his old form? I would love to see any evidence of that because if you showed it to Irsay there is without a doubt Manning is the starting QB next year.

Without a doubt Luck is no guarantee, but to say a post-surgery Manning is not a question mark is a huge leap of faith. Simply being medically cleared does not mean Manning will go back to tossing 30 touchdowns or 4000 yards. While I would put my money on he would return to being a great QB there is no guarantee. I dont know how one cannot question Manning post surgery even medically cleared.

[oldunclemark]

Because I trust Manning's ability to heal a lot more than I trust some unknown.

Let's not forget that Manning played 5 seasons, including 2 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs with the injury.

Now it has been repaired. My money is on Manning, the safer bet.

Back and better :manning: than ever??

[pedrazla1]

WE always have a choice..

I'm not saying go 'D' no.1

I'm saying Pagono might want to go 'D' with 3 of the 4 picks we could get in the top-40.

Just think abut it because we just hired a defensive expert and he needs tools..

..we can get a QB (someone like Kellen Moore) in round two.

I still think we'll draft Luck but I dont know what was said when Pagono got hired...

Pagano will not force a 3-4 defense right away so I wouldn't worry about this.

What makes you think that Pagano wouldn't switch to a 3-4 defense?

It's what he ran in Baltimore and what he ran in Oakland before that. I think they do spend the first pick on Luck (as Irsay wants) but the next one or two after that are going to be BIG space eaters to fill that middle of the line---Grigson can pick up the rest of the pieces in free agency.