Breaking Down the Colts Offense against the Eagles

[gacker65]

Its not the overall strategy I disagree with its many of his play designs that are simply flawed....He started off pulling Mewhort for example...Not a lot in Philly but prior to that....Its quite clear that Mewhort is not a very mobile O Linemen...Thornton is quite a bit more mobile

The answer to that problem is, move Mewhort to Tackle and bring in an more agile Guard.  For a Running Offense to work effectively, both Guards need to be able to pull.

[Superman]

You're assuming Bradshaw turns and makes the block at the same time you're saying Bradshaw has no idea where the nearest defender is.  You could be right about Luck scoring but it still seems like a huge overstatement to say he "completely missed" on this play.

 

You don't miss on many Superman but you completely missed on this one

 

I'm assuming that Bradshaw doesn't have to wait for the ball to reach him, focus on catching it, then turn and run with the ball. I'm assuming that he simply turns and looks for someone to block, and if he turns the same way he turned after he made the catch, he's turning directly toward the only defender that had a reasonable chance of stopping Luck.

 

Also, this is not just a one-off example. There are several examples, not just from this game or this year, but overall, when Luck has a chance to hurt the defense on the ground, but almost refuses to take off with the ball. Sometimes he's able to hit a short dumpoff, but usually, it results in him getting hit or sacked, and then we complain about how bad the protection is. It's a pattern. I just want him to be more willing to run with the opportunity presents itself, for the reasons I stated earlier. 

 

Maybe "completely missed" is a little too strong, but I definitely think he made the wrong decision. And yes, I'm stating that with the benefit of hindsight, and nitpicking. But I think it's important.

[dudeski]

Yeah I think your giving Pep an extreme amount of love and credit here that he has not earned. He first has to learn how to use matchups to his advantage before any of that other stuff...Not that his style of offense has all kinds of flaws, It dont necessarily BUT numerous play designs are flawed based on personnel used to execute those play designs, Now Chip Kelly is a visionary

yep

[dudeski]

We ran the ball 38 times for 169 yards on Monday Night Football against a very good run defense. We were 3 for 4 in the Redzone. We controlled the clock for 36 minutes.

Pep Hamilton should not be a hated man. The problem is that Colts fans are not getting what they are accustomed to. Colts fans are used to a 4,000 yard passer and deep passing plays over the top of the defense.

no. That's not it at all. Pep is very predictable. That is a problem. We don't run out of 11 enough

[Gavin]

The answer to that problem is, move Mewhort to Tackle and bring in an more agile Guard.  For a Running Offense to work effectively, both Guards need to be able to pull.

Disagree, I think moving Mewhort to Tackle is asking for trouble because now you have a slower footed O Lineman out one on one with DE's, I think the answer is move Mewhort to Center and Holmes to LG if he is healthy

[dudeski]

Disagree, I think moving Mewhort to Tackle is asking for trouble because now you have a slower footed O Lineman out one on one with DE's, I think the answer is move Mewhort to Center and Holmes to LG if he is healthy

god no

[gacker65]

Disagree, I think moving Mewhort to Tackle is asking for trouble because now you have a slower footed O Lineman out one on one with DE's, I think the answer is move Mewhort to Center and Holmes to LG if he is healthy

Could work.  Only problem would be if Offense uses Center to pull as well.

 

Reason my suggestion on moving to Tackle is no pulling.  IMO, Mewhort is descent at straight ahead blocking, but has trouble pulling.

[BlueShoe]

Could work.  Only problem would be if Offense uses Center to pull as well.

 

Reason my suggestion on moving to Tackle is no pulling.  IMO, Mewhort is descent at straight ahead blocking, but has trouble pulling.

 

I have not seen Mewhort have any issues pulling. Can you tell me a mark in any game, including the preseason, where you have seen Mewhort have issues pulling?

[BlueShoe]

Its not the overall strategy I disagree with its many of his play designs that are simply flawed....He started off pulling Mewhort for example...Not a lot in Philly but prior to that....Its quite clear that Mewhort is not a very mobile O Linemen...Thornton is quite a bit more mobile

 

I have not noticed any issues with Mewhort pulling. Do you have a mark, in any game including the preseason, where Mewhort has struggled pulling?

 

Mewhort looks very mobile to me. 

[gacker65]

I have not seen Mewhort have any issues pulling. Can you tell me a mark in any game, including the preseason, where you have seen Mewhort have issues pulling?

Last game , 1st or 2nd quarter, both Guards pulled, Thornton got block out on edge, Mewhort got TRich caught in backfield by not being there to make his block.

 

The problem is not that Mewhort can't block, just that he is to slow to get out front when pulling.

[ponyboy]

I have not seen Mewhort have any issues pulling. Can you tell me a mark in any game, including the preseason, where you have seen Mewhort have issues pulling?

 

I'm curious too.  I know he whiffed badly on his first pull attempt in his first pre-season game. It was pointed out by the announcers and showed on replay.  It seems to have been accepted on the forums since then that he can't pull.   That's not to say that he hasn't missed on many more and I too would be curious for some to point them out so I could go back and review specific plays.  I haven't watched him exclusively but have been impressed seeing him pushing his guy >5 yards downfield on running plays were I did watch him. 

[BlueShoe]

It is not a matter of getting 4000 yards etc. it is a matter of playing to the strengths of the personnel you have.  I like to run the ball but I prefer the passing attack which is obvious by many of my posts.  All that said you must be able to do both and not be stubbornly committed to doing just one of them which is in my opinion where Pep and Chuck fall flat they want to be known as a running team we do not have the personnel to be a true running team.  Secondly when you play an offense like Philly, Denver and others in the league playing keep away only delays the inevitable on most days and that is you lose as seen Monday night.  We actually ran the ball well enough Monday that we could have exploited the Eagles secondary with our passing game and the threat of the run instead of just lining up and saying we are going to run and then predictably running to the left side of the formation time and time again.

 

I guess my point is running is good, passing is good but we need to do a better job of being more diverse in our play calling at least in my opinion.  We also need to do something when we get the ball first we seem to flounder on our early possessions and this goes back to last year also, playing from behind is a recipe for disaster.

 

I hope we get it going we are 0-2 and lucky we are in a weak division.  Hopefully we turn this thing around starting this weekend but a division game is never a given no matter how bad we think the Jags are.  I believe we will win our division and most likely end up in a wild card spot once again so I guess I should really complain to much.

 

All that said Pep and Chuck and the rest of the staff have forgotten more about football than most of us "experts" could ever hope to know.  I am just happy we have a forum to vent on and have these discussions and that we are not actually running the team because what a mess that would be! 

 

There certainly needs to be a balance in what we do, and we need a win today. It doesn't matter how - If we slow play this game with long methodical drives, or just bust them over the top all day long. I don't think any of us are in a position right now to get choosy about how we win. We desperately need a win. Hopefully, we can win impressively. ;)

 

I do not believe people are giving these Pep wrinkles a chance, because let's be honest, Colts fan are just not used to this type of stuff. What do you think Steelers fans would say if this Pep Hamilton offense was implemented in Pittsburgh? I believe Pep would be Lombardi reincarnated to those crazy terrible towel slingers. They would be stoked!

 

Anyway, we will see how this plays out. I would just like to see the Colts fan base have a little bit more patience, because I think we are on the brink of something very special. 

[BlueShoe]

no. That's not it at all. Pep is very predictable. That is a problem. We don't run out of 11 enough

 

You said Pep is predictable? I doubt many NFL defensive coordinators will agree with you. I imagine defensive coordinators crapping in their pants right now, trying to figure out how to stop this monster of unbalanced lines. Teams are building to stop all of these high flying offenses, and we throw this nightmare to stop in the mix.

 

You are correct in that we are struggling to run out of 11 personnel though. It makes us one-dimensional when we get behind. What we will have to do is make up for it by getting the ball in our RB's hands via the passing game.  

[ponyboy]

Last game , 1st or 2nd quarter, both Guards pulled, Thornton got block out on edge, Mewhort got TRich caught in backfield by not being there to make his block.

 

The problem is not that Mewhort can't block, just that he is to slow to get out front when pulling.

 

I just went back to watch that play.  It appears that Cherilus whiffed on Cole (58) who then ends up in the path of Mewhort who is pulling.   Mewhort hits Cole and Kendricks has a clear path to Trent.   This blown play appears to be more on Cherilus than anybody else.  I don't know if Mewhort would have reach Kendricks in time, but he had no chance with Cole already in the backfield.

[BlueShoe]

Last game , 1st or 2nd quarter, both Guards pulled, Thornton got block out on edge, Mewhort got TRich caught in backfield by not being there to make his block.

 

The problem is not that Mewhort can't block, just that he is to slow to get out front when pulling.

 

Both guards pulled a lot against the Eagles. You will have to be more specific. Give me a mark on the game film. What quarter, and time remaining?

 

If you give me that then I will pull it and post it.

 

From what I have seen, Mewhort and Thornton have both done an excellent job pulling.

[BlueShoe]

I'm curious too.  I know he whiffed badly on his first pull attempt in his first pre-season game. It was pointed out by the announcers and showed on replay.  It seems to have been accepted on the forums since then that he can't pull.   That's not to say that he hasn't missed on many more and I too would be curious for some to point them out so I could go back and review specific plays.  I haven't watched him exclusively but have been impressed seeing him pushing his guy >5 yards downfield on running plays were I did watch him. 

 

Maybe. All I know is Thornton has put on a clinic pulling and I have not noticed any issues with Mewhort.

 

Want to see how great Thornton pulls?

 

It does not get any better that this. Watch this play:

 

[dudeski]

You said Pep is predictable? I doubt many NFL defensive coordinators will agree with you. I imagine defensive coordinators crapping in their pants right now, trying to figure out how to stop this monster of unbalanced lines. Teams are building to stop all of these high flying offenses, and we throw this nightmare to stop in the mix.

You are correct in that we are struggling to run out of 11 personnel though. It makes us one-dimensional when we get behind. What we will have to do is make up for it by getting the ball in our RB's hands via the passing game.

unbalanced lines are already figured out by dc's

[dudeski]

You said Pep is predictable? I doubt many NFL defensive coordinators will agree with you. I imagine defensive coordinators crapping in their pants right now, trying to figure out how to stop this monster of unbalanced lines. Teams are building to stop all of these high flying offenses, and we throw this nightmare to stop in the mix.

You are correct in that we are struggling to run out of 11 personnel though. It makes us one-dimensional when we get behind. What we will have to do is make up for it by getting the ball in our RB's hands via the passing game.

unbalanced lines are already figured out by dc's

[BlueShoe]

unbalanced lines are already figured out by dc's

 

It does not surprise me that you completely missed the point. 

 

You would be the last person (or close to it) on this board to know what an NFL defensive coordinator knows or does not know. ;)

[Gavin]

Both guards pulled a lot against the Eagles. You will have to be more specific. Give me a mark on the game film. What quarter, and time remaining?

 

If you give me that then I will pull it and post it.

 

From what I have seen, Mewhort and Thornton have both done an excellent job pulling.

1st Quarter  10:19  Jags

2nd Quarter 13:10 Jags

3rd Quarter  10:48 Jags

 

Its not so much that he cant get there as it is he struggles to hit his target and sustain the block on the move when he gets there, He did well getting there when asked to pull vs the Jags

[BlueShoe]

1st Quarter  10:19  Jags

2nd Quarter 13:10 Jags

3rd Quarter  10:48 Jags

 

Its not so much that he cant get there as it is he struggles to hit his target and sustain the block on the move when he gets there, He did well getting there when asked to pull vs the Jags

 

I want to make sure we are on the same page. Are you saying that you believe Mewhort pulls well, he just does not do a good job once he gets to his spot? I am not trying to be a wiseguy; just want to make sure we are on the same page. I ask because I thought we were originally talking about Mewhort pulling, and you said he was struggling to pull. I just want to make sure we are looking at/for the same things.

 

I looked at the plays on your list, and Mewhort was only pulling on the 3rd quarter play. 

 

Here is the video of all 3 plays:

 

On the first play, Mewhort's job is to block the inside linebacker Paul Posluszny. I am not going to be overly critical of that play. Even the best of lineman have difficulties with Posluszny. That said, Mewhort can improve, and slow his man down more. 

 

The second play looks similar to the first play in regards of what is asked of Mewhort. Mewhort is again, not pulling but blocking down at the next level, and again on Posluszny. Mewhort did a fine job and took one of the games best insiders linebackers out of that play. 

 

On the third play, Mewhort is the lead blocker and is pulling; however, the play gets blown up behind him, and he has no idea the play has broken down. Allen initially makes a good block on Clemons, but Geno Hayes notices that Clemons and Allen are locked up, and he actually chips his own man (Clemons) to free him off the block.