Russell Wilson compared to Brady

[thedude]

best in the game today?

 

like joe flacco was last year at this time?

 

I don't recall anyone saying Flacco is or was the very best QB in the game today, or ever for that matter.  If you can find someone who makes that claim, I'd be interested in how they justify that position.

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

NEW ORLEANS -- After watching the Baltimore Ravens pull off a 34-31 victory over the San Francisco 49ersin Super Bowl XLVII at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome, it's now safe to say: Joe Flacco is an elite quarterback.

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story/0ap1000000135375/article/joe-flacco-is-elite-quarterback-after-super-bowl-xlvii-victory

 

 

I don't recall anyone saying Flacco is or was the very best QB in the game today, or ever for that matter.  If you can find someone who makes that claim, I'd be interested in how they justify that position.

elite and one of the best in the game are interchangeable

 

elite definition:a group of people considered (by others or themselves) to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent, or wealth.

 

I'm not saying russel wilson is bad, but every year after the sb the winning QB is suddenly ELITE and "one of the best in the game". The best in the game just dropped 55 tds and 5000 yards. Someone has to win the superbowl every year, and I am tired of them being annointed the 2nd coming and throwing the whole "team game" concept out the window.

[thedude]

 

I'm not saying russel wilson is bad, but every year after the sb the winning QB is suddenly ELITE and "one of the best in the game". 

But the super bowl did not suddenly put Wilson into a higher category.  He was already in that group of top tier QB's.  The super bowl did nothing to elevate him.  If anything, it simply validated him. 

[ViriLudant]

They are a lot alike....

Both got carried to championships by a dominant defense.

People seem to forget that the Patriots won those 3 titles in 4 years behind a great defense. Brady was a game manager.

Then their defense got old & they lost others to free agency, so they decided to build a big offense around Brady. He didn't start putting up big numbers until after he won that 3rd ring in '04. And he hasn't won % since then.

ROFL at the 2001 defense as being dominant.

[Dustin]

He's banned because of his opinion on a QB?  Are you sure about that?  I think there's another reason.

 

Trolling. The same reason you were banned before. 

[Dustin]

ROFL at the 2001 defense as being dominant.

 

You mean that defense that allowed 17 PPG in the regular season (6th in the NFL) and ~16 PPG in the post season wasn't dominant? 

[thedude]

Trolling. The same reason you were banned before.

I was? When? Where? How come I just found out about that?

[thedude]

Someone earlier called Brady a "game manager". Just what do pele mean when they say that? Do they think it's a negative term?

Isn't every QB supposed to be an effective game manager? Aren't they supposed to play as error free as possible and take advantage of the opportunities presented them? Aren't they all supposed to play within their ability and not force thing?

Is there such a thing as a poor QB but a great game manager? Or is there a horrible game manager, but a great QB?

[Aaron13pgh]

Tom brady is way better than russel wilson without a question.

[throwing BBZ]

True that, Luck's postseason numbers need a clean up. We get a bit "helter skelter" a bit in the playoffs that's for sure. That may clean up a bit this year and with some time. And a better offense that clicks in general.

 

But, one thing Luck did deliver us though with a little help from his friends on the team is a playoff win in his first two seasons. We needed to get that first playoff win monkey off our backs fairly early IMO and we did. Took years with Manning. And it was a historical comeback to boot vs. KC.....

 

Now expectations will be even higher this year. I am happy though we at least have not gone one and done at home yet in the playoffs with Luck.....I can give more passes to road losses and especially in tough environments but I am picky at times about defending homefield.

 

  Andrew Sucked and got us behind, the ONLY WAY we came back on KC was because they lost at least 3 VG defensive players in that game. Luck should be 0-2 for his Playoff career. Period!

[Dustin]

Andrew Sucked and got us behind, the ONLY WAY we came back on KC was because they lost at least 3 VG defensive players in that game. Luck should be 0-2 for his Playoff career. Period!

What 3 defenwive players did they lose? Flowers (who was getting abused anyway) and who else?

[thedude]

What 3 defenwive players did they lose? Flowers (who was getting abused anyway) and who else?

Actually it was a combination of injuries on both sides of the ball...

Kansas City was absolutely decimated in the loss by injuries, contributing to its choke job, Running back Jamaal Charles was lost in the first series because of a concussion, followed by wide receiver Donnie Avery and cornerback Brandon Flowers, who also sustained an apparent concussion.

Outside linebacker Justin Houston also had to leave the game in the second half with a PCL strain and bone bruise, according to Mike Garafolo. Luckily, it does not appear Houston did anything to his ACL.

[Dustin]

Actually it was a combination of injuries on both sides of the ball...

Kansas City was absolutely decimated in the loss by injuries, contributing to its choke job, Running back Jamaal Charles was lost in the first series because of a concussion, followed by wide receiver Donnie Avery and cornerback Brandon Flowers, who also sustained an apparent concussion.

Outside linebacker Justin Houston also had to leave the game in the second half with a PCL strain and bone bruise, according to Mike Garafolo. Luckily, it does not appear Houston did anything to his ACL.

Houston missed 1 play.

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Someone earlier called Brady a "game manager". Just what do pele mean when they say that? Do they think it's a negative term?

Isn't every QB supposed to be an effective game manager? Aren't they supposed to play as error free as possible and take advantage of the opportunities presented them? Aren't they all supposed to play within their ability and not force thing?

Is there such a thing as a poor QB but a great game manager? Or is there a horrible game manager, but a great QB?

Most football fans know what game manager is.

 

While it is not a "technicaly" correct term, it is used to describe a QB who focuses more on going through the motions and just not making mistakes because he has an immensely talented team around him. As opposed to a QB who puts his team on his shoulders and does the heavy lifting to get a win.

[GoPats]

Most football fans know what game manager is.

 

While it is not a "technicaly" correct term, it is used to describe a QB who focuses more on going through the motions and just not making mistakes because he has an immensely talented team around him. As opposed to a QB who puts his team on his shoulders and does the heavy lifting to get a win.

 

It's kind of a term that's taken on a negative connotation don't you think? When I think of today's starting QBs and the term "game manager" the name that comes to mind immediately is Alex Smith. Solid-but-unspectacular, not really capable of taking over a game, etc... 

 

Brady wasn't asked to do a lot in 2001 throughout the season, and indeed was more of a game manager for the most part. But he certainly contributed in the Snow Bowl game (52 passing attempts, 300+ yards in a snowstorm, 8/8 on the final drive in OT). The last drive in the Super Bowl that year was also not exactly of the game manager variety. Usually when I see the phrase used it's done to discredit in a kind of transparent way. 

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

It's kind of a term that's taken on a negative connotation don't you think? When I think of today's starting QBs and the term "game manager" the name that comes to mind immediately is Alex Smith. Solid-but-unspectacular, not really capable of taking over a game, etc... 

 

Brady wasn't asked to do a lot in 2001 throughout the season, and indeed was more of a game manager for the most part. But he certainly contributed in the Snow Bowl game (52 passing attempts, 300+ yards in a snowstorm, 8/8 on the final drive in OT). The last drive in the Super Bowl that year was also not exactly of the game manager variety. Usually when I see the phrase used it's done to discredit in a kind of transparent way. 

 

It's kind of a term that's taken on a negative connotation don't you think? When I think of today's starting QBs and the term "game manager" the name that comes to mind immediately is Alex Smith. Solid-but-unspectacular, not really capable of taking over a game, etc... 

 

Brady wasn't asked to do a lot in 2001 throughout the season, and indeed was more of a game manager for the most part. But he certainly contributed in the Snow Bowl game (52 passing attempts, 300+ yards in a snowstorm, 8/8 on the final drive in OT). The last drive in the Super Bowl that year was also not exactly of the game manager variety. Usually when I see the phrase used it's done to discredit in a kind of transparent way. 

Oh, it definitley a negative term. The tuck rule game and one drive dont change the fact that it is very applicable to Bradys SB years.

[GoPats]

Oh, it definitley a negative term. The tuck rule game and one drive dont change the fact that it is very applicable to Bradys SB years.

 

I simply disagree when you say "years." I think they broke him in fairly slowly in 2001, but by the next season he was carrying the offense. It's not "the tuck rule and one drive," like you said... he had numerous big-game performances from 2001-2004. Including the Carolina SB (354 yards, 3 TDs). Applying the game manager label to all those years is kind of a lazy generalization. He wasn't putting up gigantic numbers but there were absolutely times that he carried them to wins, both in the regular season and playoffs. 

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

I simply disagree when you say "years." I think they broke him in fairly slowly in 2001, but by the next season he was carrying the offense. It's not "the tuck rule and one drive," like you said... he had numerous big-game performances from 2001-2004. Including the Carolina SB (354 yards, 3 TDs). Applying the game manager label to all those years is kind of a lazy generalization. He wasn't putting up gigantic numbers but there were absolutely times that he carried them to wins, both in the regular season and playoffs. 

The same can be said for most "game manager" qbs. Everyone has a great performance sometimes.

[southwest1]

I think every era will have its great quarterback rivalries. The Class of 2012 has already produced the beginnings of one in the Luck vs Wilson vs RG3 debate. Wilson has the edge so far with a Super Bowl ring, RG3 has fallen off a bit, and Nick Foles has entered the conversation but there is a lot of football left to be played to see who rises to the top. You can also throw Kaepernick and Newton into the mix. Will any of them rise to the level of Brady or Manning? Its too early to say but the potential is there for one or more of them to do it. Neither Manning nor Brady were great players after two years in the league; it took time for them to develop their games to become the great players that they eventually became. In a couple of more years we'll see which of the current group of young guns has continued to elevate their game, who has stagnated, and who has regressed.

 

No, there is no debate or QB rivalry with RW & Luck yet. Not even close. It's in it's infancy still & nowhere near a cut throat rivalry yet. Okay, you did say "beginnings" rsrobinson so I will let it slide. 

It's the off-season. I wouldn't be surprised if they began debating who has a bigger  .... *ahem....package. 

 

I know right? Just because that Pacific NW defense & secondary carried RW to a SB victory everyone elevates him to elite level. It's simply ridiculous. Good does not equal great right here & now.  

[sweetsurrender]

The same can be said for most "game manager" qbs. Everyone has a great performance sometimes.

Meh, Brady has always been the same QB in my view. He just had better weapons around him from 2007 on which is why his volume stats went up so dramatically. All of the other measurables that better showcase just how good a QB is - third down efficiency, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, etc., have always been consistent with Brady which is why is one of all the time greats.

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Meh, Brady has always been the same QB in my view. He just had better weapons around him from 2007 on which is why his volume stats went up so dramatically. All of the other measurables that better showcase just how good a QB is - third down efficiency, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, etc., have always been consistent with Brady which is why is one of all the time greats.

I cant tell if this was a parody, so I will adress it.

 

3rd down efficiency- the most irrelevant stat to use. I have a big gripe about this stat that most dont agree with. I am not going to post it because it is very abstract, but I will say youre running low on ammo when you have to use 3rd down efficiency to defend a qb

 

completion percentage- his completion percentage was waay up in 07 other than that it has been okay. Matt Schaub has a higher career completion percentage...not exactly a stat of his you look at and think "my god"

 

td/int ratio... if you think this has been consistent his whole career you may want to brush up on what a ratio is. His td/int ratio has spiked dramatically at times. 1.5/1 2001, 5/1 2007, 2/1 2009, 9/1 2010, and recently 2.5/1. His median td/int ratio is about 2/1 which is average at best.

[sweetsurrender]

I cant tell if this was a parody, so I will adress it.

 

3rd down efficiency- the most irrelevant stat to use. I have a big gripe about this stat that most dont agree with. I am not going to post it because it is very abstract, but I will say youre running low on ammo when you have to use 3rd down efficiency to defend a qb

 

completion percentage- his completion percentage was waay up in 07 other than that it has been okay. Matt Schaub has a higher career completion percentage...not exactly a stat of his you look at and think "my god"

 

td/int ratio... if you think this has been consistent his whole career you may want to brush up on what a ratio is. His td/int ratio has spiked dramatically at times. 1.5/1 2001, 5/1 2007, 2/1 2009, 9/1 2010, and recently 2.5/1. His median td/int ratio is about 2/1 which is average at best.

Would love to hear your abstract reasoning for why third down efficiency is not relevant. A Qbs ability to convert third down and extend drives is paramount in my view.

 

Brady's career completion percentage I think is right around 63/64 which is very good. My point was that his completion percentage has not changed very much over his 13 year career with the exception of 2007 like you said when he had an all time great O to work with. So again this idea that he morphed from a game manager into one of the greatest passers is a fallacy from people who look at his volume stats only. While he did improve as a QB every year, his volume stats are what increased the most dramatically because of the talent around him.

 

His TD/INT ratio is actually 2.5/1 which is one of the best all time.

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Would love to hear your abstract reasoning for why third down efficiency is not relevant. A Qbs ability to convert third down and extend drives is paramount in my view.

 

Brady's career completion percentage I think is right around 63/64 which is very good. My point was that his completion percentage has not changed very much over his 13 year career with the exception of 2007 like you said when he had an all time great O to work with. So again this idea that he morphed from a game manager into one of the greatest passers is a fallacy from people who look at his volume stats only. While he did improve as a QB every year, his volume stats are what increased the most dramatically because of the talent around him.

 

His TD/INT ratio is actually 2.5/1 which is one of the best all time.

You cant just brush aside volume stats sorry dude. They show that the volume of work and yards he had to obtain was not very much because he was riding a great team. end of story. His completion percentage etc, while not being a good point to begin with, were not that great in the years he won anyways. about average

[sweetsurrender]

You cant just brush aside volume stats sorry dude. They show that the volume of work and yards he had to obtain was not very much because he was riding a great team. end of story. His completion percentage etc, while not being a good point to begin with, were not that great in the years he won anyways. about average

Ok. So then how do you explain his increase in volume stats from 2007 and beyond? Did he all of sudden morph from an Alex Smith game manager into Dan Marino? 

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Ok. So then how do you explain his increase in volume stats from 2007 and beyond? Did he all of sudden morph from an Alex Smith game manager into Dan Marino? 

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... players tend to improve beyond there 3rd year in the league.

[sweetsurrender]

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... players tend to improve beyond there 3rd year in the league.

Not that dramatically. Brady always had the goods. 

[GoPats]

The same can be said for most "game manager" qbs. Everyone has a great performance sometimes.

 

Well of course, but what you stated earlier is essentially revisionist history. Brady did not ride the coattails of a stellar defense to three Super Bowl titles. Generally speaking, that doesn't happen. Ever. A team may win one on the strength of its defense, but any team winning four in three years is bringing it on both sides of the ball. Any other take on that is either disingenuous or misinformed. 

[Fake Jeff Skilling]

Well of course, but what you stated earlier is essentially revisionist history. Brady did not ride the coattails of a stellar defense to three Super Bowl titles. Generally speaking, that doesn't happen. Ever. A team may win one on the strength of its defense, but any team winning four in three years is bringing it on both sides of the ball. Any other take on that is either disingenuous or misinformed. 

 

Well of course, but what you stated earlier is essentially revisionist history. Brady did not ride the coattails of a stellar defense to three Super Bowl titles. Generally speaking, that doesn't happen. Ever. A team may win one on the strength of its defense, but any team winning four in three years is bringing it on both sides of the ball. Any other take on that is either disingenuous or misinformed. 

 

Well of course, but what you stated earlier is essentially revisionist history. Brady did not ride the coattails of a stellar defense to three Super Bowl titles. Generally speaking, that doesn't happen. Ever. A team may win one on the strength of its defense, but any team winning four in three years is bringing it on both sides of the ball. Any other take on that is either disingenuous or misinformed. 

i am not saying he was terrible. I would rate the pats offense then a c+ maybe b- on a good day. it is fair to say the patriots would not have won those sbs with an avg d tho. i think if bledsoe was there he wouldve won 3 too

[amfootball]

i am not saying he was terrible. I would rate the pats offense then a c+ maybe b- on a good day. it is fair to say the patriots would not have won those sbs with an avg d tho. i think if bledsoe was there he wouldve won 3 too

Ahh Blesoe. How I did love him before Brady. Poor guy. When he comes to Gillette now to see Kraft, his boys ask him to get Brady's autograph.

[GoPats]

i am not saying he was terrible. I would rate the pats offense then a c+ maybe b- on a good day. it is fair to say the patriots would not have won those sbs with an avg d tho. i think if bledsoe was there he wouldve won 3 too

 

Hmm, I liked Drew - one of my all-time favorites - but I don't think he was a good match for what Belichick wanted in his QB. He had a tendency to hold the ball, wait for the big play to open up, and he took a lot of chances. (And a lot of sacks.) One of Brady's strengths, even back then, was recognizing what the defense is giving him and taking it. If you can throw a 6-yard out uncontested or throw a 20-yard seam into traffic, which one do you take?

 

With Bledsoe they had gone 5-11 in 2000 and were 0-2 in 2001 with him as a starter. The wheels were coming off a bit by the time Brady took over with the same team/weapons and started racking up the wins. 

[TAPLOOK]

Good looking, smart, one of the best at his trade, a winner, a scratch golfer, SB winner ect. I see the comparison.