Bethea officially leaving?

[Gavin]

People really need to accept this.  Hope you don't mind I added this quote to my sig as a constant reminder

Its also close minded and goes against the whole premise of a fan forum.......Which is to discuss Colts related issues...That is a Colts related issue

[Coffeedrinker]

Its also close minded and goes against the whole premise of a fan forum.......Which is to discuss Colts related issues...That is a Colts related issue

No one is saying not to discuss Colts related issues nor is anyone saying that you cannot like the contract.  Only that on some things, like overpaying/underpaying opinions are really starting from a point of ignorance.

[Coffeedrinker]

People really need to accept this.  Hope you don't mind I added this quote to my sig as a constant reminder

Don't mind at all.  And thanks.

[Gavin]

No one is saying not to discuss Colts related issues nor is anyone saying that you cannot like the contract.  Only that on some things, like overpaying/underpaying opinions are really starting from a point of ignorance.

Not ignorance actually, Based on his production vs the top Safeties production in the league and there contracts according to Spotrac which is a reputable and reliable website

[OffensivelyPC]

I guess I just see it much different, I see him as a middle of the pack Safety who makes alot of tackles but mostly 15-20 yards down field, I posted where he ranked this year at his position in a couple categories and both were way outside the top 10, To me I just cant see paying him top 5 Safety money when he isn't a top 5 Safety, The point was brought up by CoffeeMaker that he was in line this year with what his production has been like his whole career, Which I agree with that it was....But its replaceable.....averaging 1.12 ints per season. 3.7 passes defensed and 4.6 tackles per game (many of them down field) isn't close to a top 5 Safety to me by a long shot

He's got great coverage skills.  Forget about the numbers.  Think of it as like a shutdown corner, except 15 yards off the ball in the middle of the field. He doesn't have the extravagant PD stats because he's able to cover so much field.  And while he only had 4 interceptions this year, remember he missed 5 games as well (extrapolated, he would have had 6, which puts him in the top 5). 

 

If the Colts were to sign him, we wouldn't sign him to cover a guy one on one, we'd sign him with the intent that he'd free up Landry from coverage.  That's what makes him so valuable - he can make up for a lot of deficiencies in Landry's coverage.  When you've got a guy like Landry, who is a tremendous help in the run game and you've got Byrd in coverage, htat's a safety combo that will resemble the Seahawks with Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas.  Resign Davis and hit on a CB, and we've got a very solid secondary.  Of course, none of that matters if we don't improve our DL.  We could hvae the best secondary in the league, but not even the Seattle secondary could cover wide receivers for 5 seconds or longer.

[Jason_]

Not ignorance actually, Based on his production vs the top Safeties production in the league and there contracts according to Spotrac which is a reputable and reliable website

 

Yes, ignorance...contracts aren't always given based on statistics.  We have no idea how many other teams may be offering contracts to a player behind the scenes.  We have no idea what the dollar amounts of those other contract offers would be.  It's easy to say that Erik Walden, for example, is overpaid without having any idea how much money Oakland was offering him.  

[Gavin]

He's got great coverage skills.  Forget about the numbers.  Think of it as like a shutdown corner, except 15 yards off the ball in the middle of the field. He doesn't have the extravagant PD stats because he's able to cover so much field.  And while he only had 4 interceptions this year, remember he missed 5 games as well (extrapolated, he would have had 6, which puts him in the top 5). 

 

If the Colts were to sign him, we wouldn't sign him to cover a guy one on one, we'd sign him with the intent that he'd free up Landry from coverage.  That's what makes him so valuable - he can make up for a lot of deficiencies in Landry's coverage.  When you've got a guy like Landry, who is a tremendous help in the run game and you've got Byrd in coverage, htat's a safety combo that will resemble the Seahawks with Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas.  Resign Davis and hit on a CB, and we've got a very solid secondary.  Of course, none of that matters if we don't improve our DL.  We could hvae the best secondary in the league, but not even the Seattle secondary could cover wide receivers for 5 seconds or longer.

Im confused, I was talking about Bethea, I think your talking about Byrd but not sure .......Im all for signing Byrd if he is available

[OffensivelyPC]

Im confused, I was talking about Bethea, I think your talking about Byrd but not sure .......Im all for signing Byrd if he is available

Oh, my bad.  Yeah, definitely talking about Byrd. 

[Gavin]

Yes, ignorance...contracts aren't always given based on statistics.  We have no idea how many other teams may be offering contracts to a player behind the scenes.  We have no idea what the dollar amounts of those other contract offers would be.  It's easy to say that Erik Walden, for example, is overpaid without having any idea how much money Oakland was offering him.  

We have an good idea based on current and previous recent contracts at that position, Now will teams overpay for a player? Of course but thats one thing that separates organizations that have been ran poorly from those that have been ran well

[Coffeedrinker]

Not ignorance actually, Based on his production vs the top Safeties production in the league and there contracts according to Spotrac which is a reputable and reliable website

Sorry, but it is from a point of ignorance (and before anyone cries that I am calling names, I am not.  I am not saying the people that do that are ignorant only that their basing their opinions from a point of ignorance maning lack of information about...).  And your post is a perfect example. 

• Based on production vs top safeties in the league.  Do you really think you define production the same as the coaches?  Do you think the GM pulls up stats from nfl.com and bases their contract on that?  Do you know how the Colts graded Bethea?  yes, you could use PFF as your basis or you could use Advanced NFL Stats as your bases.  Both paint a different picture of Bethea.  ANS shows Bethea as the 18th best safety in the league, on PFF Bethea is about the 30th best safety free agent.  Do the Colts grade more like ANS or PFF or totally different. 
• Sportrac reports contract values and it is reliable but how do you establish the base point of overpaid/underpaid?  You as a fan pick a player that you like and look at  their contract and then abse overpay/underpay on that.  But that position is coming from one of ignorance because you really have no idea if the player you are using as a baseline was overpaid or underpaid.

[Dark Superman]

Like, in a good way or bad way?  I'd love to have his talent, not sure if I'd want to pay what he'll be asking for.

I agree there.

Plus say if you throw 8-9 million dollars at one guy and say he gets injured for the year.

It's money down the drain. It's a risk.

[theanarchist]

He was quoted on twitter saying "My first time testing the open market, I'm pretty excited!"

Also saw that he said he would "love to finish his career here but both sides must come to an agreement" (which is obviously what every player goes through).

In my opinion I feel like he feels that he won't be back next year! I am sure he still believes he should be payed more. I do not think we will be seeing him... If he does leave how do we replace him? Thoughts??

Let me just say this about Antoine Bethea: A class individual. A damn good player. He brought stability to the Colts Safety position when he came along. Before him we had a really tough time finding quality play at the FS spot and he came in and immediately made a big impact. Sure, he isn't Ronnie Lott but he was a darn solid NFL safety. He has lost a step in my opinion but he still had his moments. Good luck to you Mr. Bethea, we will miss you!