Denver's D now toothless

[bayone]

6-0 without Von

6-3 with Von

 

 

Thanks!

 

Not that there's a correlation or anything, but I'm sure they'll be OK without him. 

 

yes however They had Big Vick & wolfe  when Von was suspended 

 

but now also , and not to sound a sour note just being realistic here

 

& Now  no Vickerson in Middle that's why also just got Mincey, &   Broncos  have no idea about Wolfe yet & also early on woodward was a great starter , now they have lenon in

 

D is a mess, played well yesterday but thats not a playoff team with stellar QB 

 

From top 5 D with Tebow / orton to bottom 5 for Peyton , 

 

reminds me of when Freeney went down 

[Warhawk]

Just to put into context how poor Denver's defense is, and also by extension how good their offense is, AND by extension how bad defense is in general this year, there are only 6 teams in NFL history that have given up at least 400 points and ended the regular season with a winning record.  Here they are, most points first:

 

2000 Rams - 471 points - 10-6 - Wild Card Loss

1983 Cardinals - 428 points - 9-8-1 - No Playoffs

2008 Cardinals - 426 points - 9-7 - Super Bowl Loss

1989 Oilers - 412 points - 9-7 - Wild Card Loss

1965 49ers - 402 points - 7-6-1 - No Playoffs

2011 Giants - 400 points - 9-7 - Super Bowl Win

 

Incredibly, there are 3 teams with a reasonable shot to do it this year alone - the Broncos, who already have 12 wins but will be in the club if they allow at least 15 points in week 17, and the Cowboys and Bears, who already have allowed 400+ points and can clinch winning records with week 17 wins.

[amfootball]

They played (and won) a bunch of games without him this year. I've always thought he's overrated, and can be overpowered by decent tackles. 

 

Either way, the loss of Miller isn't going to factor in much here, I don't think. 

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know Denver's record with and without him this season? Wasn't he healthy for 2 of their 3 losses?

I have to disagree with you here.  I am not Miller's biggest fan but the guy is a beast and can bring it with some of the best pass rushers. Denver's D was not good to begin with but look at its stats with Miller and without. The Pats won a lot without Gronk too but their scoring and red zone took a hit. Everything just got harder for the Denver D.

[amfootball]

While I agree that Defense is important, the object is to score MORE points than the other team to win, correct? So lets look at the offensive numbers from that list in order from top to bottom (taken off NFL.com):

 

Denver-1

San Diego-6

New England-7

Cincy-10

Indy-17

Kansas City-20

Miami-27

 

Denver has played several of the teams on your list and was able to put up 33 on the Colts, 31 on the Pats, 55 (2 game total) on the Chiefs and 48 (2 game total) on San Diego. They lost to the Colts but it was a close game and minus a few fumbles who knows what would have happened. They lost to the Pats in OT by a field goal and their LOWEST point total of the season came from a rare home loss vs San Diego where they scored a miserable 20 points. No matter the ranking of any defense the Broncos WILL PUT UP POINTS! The Broncos D has to make a few plays throughout the game as well and special teams must not make mistakes. I just don't think beating them will be as easy as everyone here says.

 

To be honest I think the ONLY team on the list who can score more points is the Pats, no other team can keep up and while the Pats are scary I am more afraid of the Chiefs. It is VERY hard to beat a team 2 times in a season but beating a team 3 times in a season is really really really HARD! If the Broncos win next week and take the 1st seed gaining home field advantage it will be tough. Other than the loss to San Diego at home both other losses came on the road in VERY tough environments. Peyton will not have a noise issue and will be able to audible from the line without problems which makes them tough to beat.

 

While Von is a great player, the Broncos won 6 games without him and I do not see him as the same impact player as last year. The young guys have stepped up and they still got pressure when Von went out yesterday. Lets face it, the O line of some of those playoff teams you listed are not that good and Denver doesn't need big name DL to get pressure vs those teams. Denvers O line, while makeshift, has improved each and every week. Welker will be back and so will a few from the defense (Wolfe, Woodyard) 

 

While there are NO guarantees in anything, I LIKE the Broncos chances this year more than I have ever liked a Peyton led team. I have a good feeling that this is his year to shine from top to bottom. If he were to make it to the super bowl and win, his play off record would be OVER .500 and I wonder what in the world will the Peyton haters complain about next.......

Generally teams with a top 10 O and D have the best chance to win the Super Bowl which would put the Pats, Cincy and Chargers as the favs. I would take a top 5 D over top O in the post-season any day.

[ManningFANin FL]

Generally teams with a top 10 O and D have the best chance to win the Super Bowl which would put the Pats, Cincy and Chargers as the favs. I would take a top 5 D over top O in the post-season any day.

What do you mean by generally? Since 2008 only ONE team had a top 10 O and D and won the superbowl. 

 

O/D Rankings

 

2012 Ravens: 10th/ 12th

2011 Giants: 9th/ 25th

2010 Packers: 10th/ 2nd

2009 Saints: 1st/ 20th

2008 Steelers: 20th/ 1st

[MAC]

Gramz, he has eight. The most ever. It is what it is.

People state this in a vacuum as if it's indicative of failure, ignoring the fact that he has been to the playoffs twelve times - which is ALSO "the most ever".  You can't lose a playoff game if you fail to get your team into the playoffs. He's also played terrific in most of those loses. This isn't Donovan McNab assuming the fetal position and surrendering another Super Bowl to the Pats.

 

Peyton has only missed the playoffs in two healthy years: his rookie season with a team that had been lousy enough to be in a position to draft him, and a season in which the team had the 8th worst points per game given up in the history of the sport - leading to the coaches being fired. While Brady's record is remarkable, he has never had to deal with anything remotely close to either of those things. Plus the primary reason that his career playoff winning percentage is so glowing is that he started out 10-0 during a period in which he wasn't even being ASKED to carry the team - a responsibility that Peyton has held since the moment he was drafted.

 

Brady wasn't even good enough to start his first year, and somehow managed to miss the playoffs entirely in 2002 despite playing for a team that was good enough to win the SB the year before and both years after. But thank goodness he didn't commit the apparently inexcusable act of going "one and done" in those years.

 

But my intention isn't to attempt to denigrate Brady - his accomplishments are remarkable and I hold him in considerable respect. I'm responding because you are attempting to denigrate Peyton - leaving the implication that other QBs (Eli, Rothlesberger for example) would be more desirable to have in the playoffs by virtue of their playoff records. That ignores the fact that they (and Brees, and most every other QB in the sport ) can disappear from the national scene for extended periods of time without it apparently being held against them. That's just patently absurd.

 

Does anyone consider Rodgers a failure? He's the latest and greatest by most accounts. Yet he wasn't even good enough to start his first three years, missed the playoffs his fourth, and has had two "one and dones' in the four years since. You could even say that his issues this year are a personal failure, because either his playing style, his failure to get rid of the ball and protect himself, or his personal fragility has sidelined him at an age when Peyton was a rock. Meanwhile Peyton is having an all-time great season with a degraded arm that requires him to plant and throw with his entire body, yet two bum ankles that prevent him from doing exactly that. The fact that he has led the team to the playoffs a record thirteenth time is remarkable regardless of what happens from here on out.

[amfootball]

Double post - delete

[amfootball]

People state this in a vacuum as if it's indicative of failure, ignoring the fact that he has been to the playoffs twelve times - which is ALSO "the most ever".  You can't lose a playoff game if you fail to get your team into the playoffs. He's also played terrific in most of those loses. This isn't Donovan McNab assuming the fetal position and surrendering another Super Bowl to the Pats.

 

Peyton has only missed the playoffs in two healthy years: his rookie season with a team that had been lousy enough to be in a position to draft him, and a season in which the team had the 8th worst points per game given up in the history of the sport - leading to the coaches being fired. While Brady's record is remarkable, he has never had to deal with anything remotely close to either of those things. Plus the primary reason that his career playoff winning percentage is so glowing is that he started out 10-0 during a period in which he wasn't even being ASKED to carry the team - a responsibility that Peyton has held since the moment he was drafted.

 

Brady wasn't even good enough to start his first year, and somehow managed to miss the playoffs entirely in 2002 despite playing for a team that was good enough to win the SB the year before and both years after. But thank goodness he didn't commit the apparently inexcusable act of going "one and done" in those years.

 

But my intention isn't to attempt to denigrate Brady - his accomplishments are remarkable and I hold him in considerable respect. I'm responding because you are attempting to denigrate Peyton - leaving the implication that other QBs (Eli, Rothlesberger for example) would be more desirable to have in the playoffs by virtue of their playoff records. That ignores the fact that they (and Brees, and most every other QB in the sport ) can disappear from the national scene for extended periods of time without it apparently being held against them. That's just patently absurd.

 

Does anyone consider Rodgers a failure? He's the latest and greatest by most accounts. Yet he wasn't even good enough to start his first three years, missed the playoffs his fourth, and has had two "one and dones' in the four years since. You could even say that his issues this year are a personal failure, because either his playing style, his failure to get rid of the ball and protect himself, or his personal fragility has sidelined him at an age when Peyton was a rock. Meanwhile Peyton is having an all-time great season with a degraded arm that requires him to plant and throw with his entire body, yet two bum ankles that prevent him from doing exactly that. The fact that he has led the team to the playoffs a record thirteenth time is remarkable regardless of what happens from here on out.

I was just responding to Gramz who was wondering why Peyton gets more flak for his one and done's then others. No games are played in a vacuum. And making the playoffs is tough every year but then again Luck has already done it his first two seasons as well. Like I said, it is what it is. You can editorialize either side of it. I was just answering the question. 

 

And that was quite a slam on Rodgers.

[bayone]

Double post - delete

 

i gave u my habit, ( LOL ) anyway getting near 4 PM when get busy

[amfootball]

i gave u my habit, ( LOL ) anyway getting near 4 PM when get busy

lol. Not sure what is going on. I am sure most here only want to read my posts once.

 

And sorry about the other thread. I was not jumping on you for posting the Manning playoff article just the timing of it right after he broke the 50Tds. It has been Manning all day here today which is probably as it should be. Sorry too about Miller. That is a huge loss heading into the post-season but at least the team is used to playing without him like the Pats without Gronk.

[pacolts56]

I will say it right now.... There are always at least two teams every year that go one and done in the playoffs. Some years, 4 teams can go one and done.

This Year, I'd say that's up for grabs for several teams the way this Bi-Polar Season is going. I think YOU want the Broncos to be one of these teams... I, however, don't.

Yep....this season is flat out crazy.

And just when everyone thought Seattle couldn't be beaten at home.....down go the Seahawks.

[MAC]

I was just responding to Gramz who was wondering why Peyton gets more flak for his one and done's then others. No games are played in a vacuum. And making the playoffs is tough every year but then again Luck has already done it his first two seasons as well. Like I said, it is what it is. You can editorialize either side of it. I was just answering the question. 

 

And that was quite a slam on Rodgers.

Anyone would take Rodgers on their team in a heartbeat. I wasn't slamming him, just pointing out some facts which could be twisted to paint him in an unfavorable light - the point being that that is exactly what people do to Peyton.

 

I realize that a lot of it is that he has been so incredibly successful and receives so much media attention that those who are sick of hearing it feel compelled to seek out any reason imaginable to knock him down, but it doesn't bear close scrutiny.

[amfootball]

 

 

Anyone would take Rodgers on their team in a heartbeat. I wasn't slamming him, just pointing out some facts which could be twisted to paint him in an unfavorable light - the point being that that is exactly what people do to Peyton.

 

I realize that a lot of it is that he has been so incredibly successful and receives so much media attention that those who are sick of hearing it feel compelled to seek out any reason imaginable to knock him down, but it doesn't bear close scrutiny.

I hear ya. But Manning gets a lot of praise too. Try to let the other stuff roll off your back. No player is spared from criticism.

[MAC]

 

 

I hear ya. But Manning gets a lot of praise too. Try to let the other stuff roll off your back. No player is spared from criticism.

 

[Sports Central1]

Does anyone consider Rodgers a failure? He's the latest and greatest by most accounts. Yet he wasn't even good enough to start his first three years, missed the playoffs his fourth, and has had two "one and dones' in the four years since. You could even say that his issues this year are a personal failure, because either his playing style, his failure to get rid of the ball and protect himself, or his personal fragility has sidelined him at an age when Peyton was a rock. Meanwhile Peyton is having an all-time great season with a degraded arm that requires him to plant and throw with his entire body, yet two bum ankles that prevent him from doing exactly that. The fact that he has led the team to the playoffs a record thirteenth time is remarkable regardless of what happens from here on out.

 

Elaborate on Rodgers "personal fragility".  I get the picture that some in the media are hinting or assuming that Rodgers is healthy and he's not playing for some reason.  If the Packers are out of it and have no chance to make the playoffs now then I would sit Rodgers down the rest of the season and let him get healthy for next season.

 

No one really knows Rodgers' body and what he's feeling other than Rodgers.  I don't believe in the motto of: "suck it up and get out there and play no matter what."  That's dangerous and shortens your career.

[MAC]

Elaborate on Rodgers "personal fragility".  I get the picture that some in the media are hinting or assuming that Rodgers is healthy and he's not playing for some reason.  If the Packers are out of it and have no chance to make the playoffs now then I would sit Rodgers down the rest of the season and let him get healthy for next season.

 

No one really knows Rodgers' body and what he's feeling other than Rodgers.  I don't believe in the motto of: "suck it up and get out there and play no matter what."  That's dangerous and shortens your career.

I assume that by now you have read the rest of the conversation.

 

I am far from being one of those overly macho mental midget's who insists that his hero's risk their long-term health and safety for the sake of my amusement. I get angry when players tackle with the obvious intent of inflicting pain rather than simply "bringing the ball carrier to the ground", and I'd be delighted if the rules were tightened up even more.

 

"A real man would crawl out there with one leg and beat his opponents over the head with the other." Uh, no. One would assume that Rodgers is following doctors orders, and no-one should ever ask for more than that.

[MAC]

  Peyton went to Denver because Elway promised Peyton he could have full 100% control of the entire offense and they would load him up with offense. I guarantee you Peyton begs the GM and coach to bring in as many offensive weapons as possible where ever he goes and puts pressure on the front office to have to put more emphasis on the offense instead of the defense.  Hard to spend big money on your defense under a salary cap when your QB is always in your office begging you to spend more money on offense. Through out Peyton's career I bet you he's always had it his way.  The owners and coaches gave him what he wanted.

:scared: Your response about Rodgers deluded me regarded your posting style. You know, reasonable and all that. Now I'm just confused.