ESPN, Bronco's Lack of true center may force abandonment of 3 WR fast paced offense and have more 2 TE , or 2 RB looks for protection up the middle

[bayone]

The Broncos are going to have to decide over the next few weeks if they can still open the formation as much as they'd like in a three-wide receiver set if they can't consistently block the middle of the field. It may push them toward more two tight end or two-back looks at times with an extra player sliding in the protection in the middle of the field.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/60260/broncos-seek-answers-in-scrimmage&ex_cid=MyESPNToday_Team

[amfootball]

The Broncos are going to have to decide over the next few weeks if they can still open the formation as much as they'd like in a three-wide receiver set if they can't consistently block the middle of the field. It may push them toward more two tight end or two-back looks at times with an extra player sliding in the protection in the middle of the field.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/60260/broncos-seek-answers-in-scrimmage&ex_cid=MyESPNToday_Team

That is interesting. They will have to adjust somehow to keep Peyton upright. Welker may very well end up with 100+ catches this season as Peyton will need to get rid of the ball fast.

 

You know this brings up a great point of football that is often overlooked. Championships are won from the lines out. So often as fans we get enamored with the skill players, especially the QB, but if the lines stink then the season is lost. It does not matter who lines up behind center or on the outside ...

[oldunclemark]

I would not take that comment very seriously....

Subtract all injured players...and consider

When the season starts a month from now..the Broncos still have centers Ryan Lilja and Manny Ramirez (started 11 game at guard for the No. 2 offense in the NFL) and he's worked at centre since camp began..

Zane Beadles was a Pro Bowl alternate..and Louis Vasquez started for San Diego....

Orlando Franklin and Ryan Clady are quality tackles..

That line seems better than Manning ever had in Indy.

Denver will go with a two tight end, two running back offense....about the time Princess Kate leaves William for Anthony Weiner

[Susie Q]

I would not take that comment very seriously.... Subtract all injured players...and consider When the season starts a month from now..the Broncos still have centers Ryan Lilja and Manny Ramirez (started 11 game at guard for the No. 2 offense in the NFL) and he's worked at centre since camp began.. Zane Beadles was a Pro Bowl alternate..and Louis Vasquez started for San Diego.... Orlando Franklin and Ryan Clady are quality tackles.. That line seems better than Manning ever had in Indy. Denver will go with a two tight end, two running back offense....about the time Princess Kate leaves William for Anthony Weiner

Thanks oldunclemark for giving me my laugh for the day.

[Fx Stryker]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000225673/article/denver-broncos-starting-2013-from-a-position-of-strength

 

Well Rapoprt says that they look even better than last season.

Denver will go with a two tight end, two running back offense....about the time Princess Kate leaves William for Anthony Weiner

This just in the Princess was caught texting Carlos Danger.

[MAC]

This is of course conjecture on the writers part. I've read recently that Ramirez was practicing with the first team BEFORE Koppen got hurt, and they were still talking about the speed of their offense back then. They clearly see something in the man.

 

I'd be delighted to see Lilja finish his career centering for Peyton, but it's possible that he was signed as much for his versatility as for the fact that he played center last year.

[bayone]

I would not take that comment very seriously.... Subtract all injured players...and consider When the season starts a month from now..the Broncos still have centers Ryan Lilja and Manny Ramirez (started 11 game at guard for the No. 2 offense in the NFL) and he's worked at centre since camp began.. Zane Beadles was a Pro Bowl alternate..and Louis Vasquez started for San Diego.... Orlando Franklin and Ryan Clady are quality tackles.. That line seems better than Manning ever had in Indy. Denver will go with a two tight end, two running back offense....about the time Princess Kate leaves William for Anthony Weiner

 

 

Saturday always kept a clean pocket for Peyton, Manny's weakness is Pass protection, Having Big Beadles and Vasquez on either side may help alot , just hope wont leave gaps between tackles and the OG if they have to better help protecting middle

 

Last year Teams designed the D to attack Manny''s poor Pass Protection, we will have to wait  see if  & see if Lija develops

and can handle it

 

On the Plus side Manny can riun block very well and is much bigger than Lilja so between he and the 2 OGs are alot of beef , Denver must develope a run attack and that will keep teams guessing and hellp with play action

[bayone]

This is of course conjecture on the writers part. I've read recently that Ramirez was practicing with the first team BEFORE Koppen got hurt, and they were still talking about the speed of their offense back then. They clearly see something in the man.

 

I'd be delighted to see Lilja finish his career centering for Peyton, but it's possible that he was signed as much for his versatility as for the fact that he played center last year.

 

 

Manny has been practicing with fiorst team since start of OTA's as Walton was always injured, so yes, in fact only day Knoppen was with first team was day he got hurt, or may have been his second day

 

Manny having issues with mis snaps but still time to work on that

[Susie Q]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000225673/article/denver-broncos-starting-2013-from-a-position-of-strength

 

Well Rapoprt says that they look even better than last season.

This just in the Princess was caught texting Carlos Danger.

Thanks Stryker my second laugh for the day.

[MAC]

Manny has been practicing with fiorst team since start of OTA's as Walton was always injured, so yes, in fact only day Knoppen was with first team was day he got hurt, or may have been his second day

 

Manny having issues with mis snaps but still time to work on that

That is the assumption that I was working under as well until seeing an article (don't have time to search for) which suggested that Koppen had not been put right into the starting unit either. Maybe the writer was wrong - who knows.

 

I've seen you mention the snap problems many times, although I haven't been reading much about it online. You'd have to think that with repetition it would be the least of their problems. I hope he can get it back on the shotgun cleanly though. That's got to be hard for a guard to pick up as well - and particularly important to that offense.

[Superman]

I disagree with the entire premise. If they're worried about interior pass blocking, using more backs and tight ends doesn't help. Going three wide and throwing hot is probably the easier and more efficient solution.

[amfootball]

I disagree with the entire premise. If they're worried about interior pass blocking, using more backs and tight ends doesn't help. Going three wide and throwing hot is probably the easier and more efficient solution.

The issue is the center so there is no time for the hot route if Manning is getting bull rushed up the middle.

[Superman]

The issue is the center so there is no time for the hot route if Manning is getting bull rushed up the middle.

 

So you solve that by using two tight ends?

[bayone]

That is the assumption that I was working under as well until seeing an article (don't have time to search for) which suggested that Koppen had not been put right into the starting unit either. Maybe the writer was wrong - who knows.

 

I've seen you mention the snap problems many times, although I haven't been reading much about it online. You'd have to think that with repetition it would be the least of their problems. I hope he can get it back on the shotgun cleanly though. That's got to be hard for a guard to pick up as well - and particularly important to that offense.

 

 

Mile high report  & or Bronco web site report said Knoppen was practicing  2nd unit , then upgraded to first team unit & manny second  , then day after he got injured Fox said  either in mile high report or denver web site Many was always the starter anyway, whether he said that due to knoppen being injured and just wanted to see knoppen with first unit for a day or 2 who knows, Position is Manny;'s now, Lilja we shall see, I have no time to try and find said articles 

 

Lately havent heard as much Re mis snaps so getting better

 

Must run bye

 

last weekend went to best friends daughters wedding, this weekend his fathers funeral, have to go to whats called sitting shiva in Jewish for few nights or days , pending how I feel and moms & my needs & Dr appointments  and stay awhile and pay respects

 

have alot to accomplish before i go later today so g have a good one, hope i helped 

[amfootball]

So you solve that by using two tight ends?

There isn't a solution. Not when passing. TEs would help with run plays ...

[chad72]

You slide protection with the personnel you have and go with hot reads based on where your pressure is coming from. If you have 2 A-gap blitzers who want to test the A gaps, you slide your RB and your O-linemen, isn't that the job of the QB, whoever it is?

 

You can still run a slow paced 3 WR offensive set if the center is taking a little more time to get the calls right quickly.

 

 

A lot of times, teams do that, have 2 guys faking the blitz in the A gaps, one comes and one does not and the one who seems like he is defending the slot wideout comes on a delayed blitz. That is where the OL slides and picks the A gaps, and the RB picks up the guy off the edge and the WR whose defender came on the blitz turns around quick for the hot read throw. I am not sure why the writer feels a 3 WR set is not feasible.

[Superman]

There isn't a solution. Not when passing. TEs would help with run plays ...

 

Unless the center is just absolutely useless in pass protection (which he's not, in this case), you still have time to go hot. The Broncos have one of the best slot receivers in the game, especially for quick passing. They have a quarterback who knows how to identify the rush and hit the hot man.

 

It's not ideal, but what they did during the scrimmage is basically take every passing snap from the shotgun, which allows the quarterback to get the ball out. That's better than taking your receivers off the field because you're worried about your center.

 

There are a ton of ways to deal with issues in pass protection. I just don't think the Broncos are going to use 22 personnel because they're worried about pressure up the middle. That's not how you beat pressure up the middle.

[MAC]

last weekend went to best friends daughters wedding, this weekend his fathers funeral, have to go to whats called sitting shiva in Jewish for few nights or days

How horrible for your friend and his family.

[amfootball]

Unless the center is just absolutely useless in pass protection (which he's not, in this case), you still have time to go hot. The Broncos have one of the best slot receivers in the game, especially for quick passing. They have a quarterback who knows how to identify the rush and hit the hot man.

 

It's not ideal, but what they did during the scrimmage is basically take every passing snap from the shotgun, which allows the quarterback to get the ball out. That's better than taking your receivers off the field because you're worried about your center.

 

There are a ton of ways to deal with issues in pass protection. I just don't think the Broncos are going to use 22 personnel because they're worried about pressure up the middle. That's not how you beat pressure up the middle.

All the articles Bayone has posted say otherwise regarding the center. I guess we will see how it pans out but it is by far the worst area of the Oline to have concerns. Doing shotgun all game will not work consistenly as the D will pick up on it. It also puts pressure on the rest of the line to make up for the center's weakness so Manning will feel it across the line. I do agree that Welker will help a lot though. He may turn out to be their most valuable signing.

[Superman]

All the articles Bayone has posted say otherwise regarding the center. I guess we will see how it pans out but it is by far the worst area of the Oline to have concerns. Doing shotgun all game will not work consistenly as the D will pick up on it. It also puts pressure on the rest of the line to make up for the center's weakness so Manning will feel it across the line. I do agree that Welker will help a lot though. He may turn out to be their most valuable signing.

I've seen a lot of assumptions about the Broncos' issues at center. No one really knows what it looks like until they play a game. I think their first preseason game is this Thursday. I highly doubt that whoever the center is can't give Manning a couple seconds of protection up the middle.

You're right, shotgun all game won't work, for several reasons. I was just saying that they are already trying to work out some of the kinks. And I think a big part of them using so much shotgun the other night was to avoid bad QB/center exchanges in the rain.

Anyways, my point is that I don't think going 22 personnel is the way to make up for trouble at center. I think it's counterproductive, especially when you have the best hot man in the league, and a quarterback who excels at hitting the hot man.

Not to mention the fact that the Broncos have probably the most potent 11 personnel package in the league (Decker, Thomas, Welker, Tamme/Dreesen and any back rivals any other 3WR look), and one of the worst 22 packages (they don't have any backs who excel at pass pro, and they're thin at tight end right now).

One thing is for sure: they've been snake bit at center so far this offseason.

[RGIII]

Since when has not having an offensive line EVER stopped Peyton from airing it out?

[oldunclemark]

The issue is the center so there is no time for the hot route if Manning is getting bull rushed up the middle.

But they have centers.....Ramirez and Lilja...

 

..and the guards are solid

 

I dont see a problem  at this point 

[oldunclemark]

I disagree with the entire premise. If they're worried about interior pass blocking, using more backs and tight ends doesn't help. Going three wide and throwing hot is probably the easier and more efficient solution.

 

  I think Ryan Lilja stablizes the line, if Manny Ramirez cant. Lilja did start 11 games for KC at center.

 

Vasquez started 15 for SD and the other three started all season for Denver/

 

I think this blogger needed an angle...so he played up the center injuries..not the replacements

[oldunclemark]

This is of course conjecture on the writers part. I've read recently that Ramirez was practicing with the first team BEFORE Koppen got hurt, and they were still talking about the speed of their offense back then. They clearly see something in the man.

 

I'd be delighted to see Lilja finish his career centering for Peyton, but it's possible that he was signed as much for his versatility as for the fact that he played center last year.

 MAC..that's possible.......

 

Lilja was signed for the fact that he played center last year...

 

He's not a tackle and Denver has no problems at guard...2 healthy highly-regarded younger starters.

 

But if Ramirez is ineffective......they know Lilja played there last season and is familiar with Manning's audible patterns

 

..and if a starting guard gets hurt..Lilja could play there obviously

[bayone]

Since when has not having an offensive line EVER stopped Peyton from airing it out?

 

One thing peyton had though was Saturday protecting pocket up the middle ,

 

was a recent detailed analysis in Post & article , sorry cant find my post and article link, once put up that showed Peyton excelled at avoiding side rushes getting by OT's but pressure up the middle was a weakness , opposite was for brady

 

But they have centers.....Ramirez and Lilja...

 

..and the guards are solid

 

I dont see a problem  at this point 

 

 

 

Not to mention the fact that the Broncos have probably the most potent 11 personnel package in the league (Decker, Thomas, Welker, Tamme/Dreesen and any back rivals any other 3WR look), and one of the worst 22 packages (they don't have any backs who excel at pass pro, and they're thin at tight end right now).

One thing is for sure: they've been snake bit at center so far this offseason.

 

 

all true , just that Offense has been by design this TC

 

DENVER wants more balanced attack with good inside run game , thats what R trying to do in practice and Elway stated , for good run game   Colts poor line showed need decent OL and Montee Ball had a excellent  one in College

[amfootball]

I've seen a lot of assumptions about the Broncos' issues at center. No one really knows what it looks like until they play a game. I think their first preseason game is this Thursday. I highly doubt that whoever the center is can't give Manning a couple seconds of protection up the middle.

You're right, shotgun all game won't work, for several reasons. I was just saying that they are already trying to work out some of the kinks. And I think a big part of them using so much shotgun the other night was to avoid bad QB/center exchanges in the rain.

Anyways, my point is that I don't think going 22 personnel is the way to make up for trouble at center. I think it's counterproductive, especially when you have the best hot man in the league, and a quarterback who excels at hitting the hot man.

Not to mention the fact that the Broncos have probably the most potent 11 personnel package in the league (Decker, Thomas, Welker, Tamme/Dreesen and any back rivals any other 3WR look), and one of the worst 22 packages (they don't have any backs who excel at pass pro, and they're thin at tight end right now).

One thing is for sure: they've been snake bit at center so far this offseason.

I was thinking before all these injuries that Denver would focus on the run even more than last year. That is Fox's MO anyways and they will try to win with Manning the way Shanny did with Elway. The thing is the late 90's Broncos had a great Oline. And of course Terrell Davis.

[bayone]

I was thinking before all these injuries that Denver would focus on the run even more than last year. That is Fox's MO anyways and they will try to win with Manning the way Shanny did with Elway. The thing is the late 90's Broncos had a great Oline. And of course Terrell Davis.

 

I posted this just before u also in answer to the  Superone & others

 

all true , just that Offense has been by design this TC so that

 

DENVER wants more balanced attack with good inside run game , thats what R trying to do in practice and Elway stated  it,

for good run game   Colts poor line showed need decent OL and Montee Ball had a excellent  one in College

[bayone]

 misplaced and moved

[bayone]

misplaced and moved , YET AGAIN

[Mameluc]

im kinda excited for Julius Thomas...wonder if he can finnally break out...and what will the coaches do if he is healthy? tamme/dressen/thomas...not to mention 3 WR who are all quality starters.

 

i also wonder if they will resign both decker and DT after the welker deal...man I'd love to have decker here with Andrew...

[oldunclemark]

im kinda excited for Julius Thomas...wonder if he can finnally break out...and what will the coaches do if he is healthy? tamme/dressen/thomas...not to mention 3 WR who are all quality starters.

 

i also wonder if they will resign both decker and DT after the welker deal...man I'd love to have decker here with Andrew...

Lets look at that.

 

Elway goes to Manning and asks:

 

"Do you really need Thomas, Decker AND Welker????

 

You are getting old.

 

Maybe you dont want to throw the ball that much in your declining years?

 

I'm thinking that you could be the first 40-year-old guy to run the 'read option' "

 

 

Come on, Peyton, dont knock it till you try it""

[Mameluc]

Lets look at that.

 

Elway goes to Manning and asks:

 

"Do you really need Thomas, Decker AND Welker????

 

You are getting old.

 

Maybe you dont want to throw the ball that much in your declining years?

 

I'm thinking that you could be the first 40-year-old guy to run the 'read option' "

 

 

Come on, Peyton, dont knock it till you try it""

errr cap room? PM taking about 20 million of cap space? Clady taking another big portion of it? maybe not wanting to invest that much on WR and trying to balance the team?

 

im asking, cause i really have no idea what their cap situation is...spare me the whole sarcastic nonsense. if you were going to provide nothing why reply?

[chad72]

The center issues will be a short term issue till Lilja picks up the offense since there were several Bronco touches to add to the Peyton-era Indy offense that have been added over last year to the Broncos offense.

 

Manny Ramirez knows the offense but is short on the talent aspect. Lilja is a bit more talented for the center position but is short on the knowledge of the entire offense aspect. Once Lilja catches up, the deficiency wont loom large.

 

Besides, now they have a 1st round draft pick (Moreno), a 2nd round draft pick (Montee Ball), and a 3rd round draft pick (Ronnie Hillman) in terms of talent and one of them is eventually going to work out good.

[oldunclemark]

Geez.....just a little attempt at humor..lighten up......this isnt CNN....

 

Peyton running the read option isnt funny?    I'm here all week!. 2 shows!!..

 

Okay, Okay. I think Champ Bailey retires after this season....he's at $10 mil or so...

 

They will replace Moreno and Koppen.....with youth...

 

Contracts for Decker and Thomas can increase in the years after Welker (only a 2-year deal) is gone..

 

I dont think they resign Welker at age 34

 

..and cap room was part of the season to let Elvis Dumerville go.

[oldunclemark]

    M-Luc

 

I dont think Dumerville being let go and the need to soon sign Miller, Decker and Thomas are not connected

 

Dumerville being let go was not a fax machine accident...

[bayone]

Lets look at that.

 

Elway goes to Manning and asks:

 

"Do you really need Thomas, Decker AND Welker????

 

You are getting old.

 

Maybe you dont want to throw the ball that much in your declining years?

 

I'm thinking that you could be the first 40-year-old guy to run the 'read option' "

 

 

Come on, Peyton, dont knock it till you try it""

 

 

errr cap room? PM taking about 20 million of cap space? Clady taking another big portion of it? maybe not wanting to invest that much on WR and trying to balance the team?

 

im asking, cause i really have no idea what their cap situation is...spare me the whole sarcastic *. if you were going to provide nothing why reply?

 

 

I read somewhere today, no idea where or link as buried in article on another topic

 

BUT not right away but sometime once things settle down with current issues,  Broncos are hoping to negotiate a LT contract this year with Decker

[bayone]

The center issues will be a short term issue till Lilja picks up the offense since there were several Bronco touches to add to the Peyton-era Indy offense that have been added over last year to the Broncos offense.

 

Manny Ramirez knows the offense but is short on the talent aspect. Lilja is a bit more talented for the center position but is short on the knowledge of the entire offense aspect. Once Lilja catches up, the deficiency wont loom large.

 

Besides, now they have a 1st round draft pick (Moreno), a 2nd round draft pick (Montee Ball), and a 3rd round draft pick (Ronnie Hillman) in terms of talent and one of them is eventually going to work out good.

 

Last paragraph of article

 

 

Lilja,   has been a quick study of the Broncos' playbook, but coach John Fox said Monday he was more worried about Lilja "getting in hitting shape."

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/60348/broncos-franklin-day-to-day-with-hip-injury&ex_cid=MyESPNToday_Team

 

Quarterback Peyton Manning had hinted following the team's scrimmage Saturday night 

 

  Broncos' intended to fast-track Lilja to get the veteran lineman ready to play. Monday was proof of that as Lilja, formally listed as the fourth-team center on the depth chart, was immediately put in with the starters after Franklin's injury. 

 

"He's very, very football smart -- '' Fox said. "I'm really more concerned with him right now getting in hitting shape more than we are whether he knows what he's doing.'' 

 

Lilja has said "a lot of the terminology, I'm familiar with,'' after playing in front of Manning with the Colts 2004-2009. 

Lilja figures to play at least some with the starters in Thursday's preseason opener in San Francisco if the Broncos deem him ready physically.

 

He was not in an offseason program having believed he was retired before he signed in Denver and also had knee and toe surgeries in the offseason.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/60299/broncos-camp-notes-another-injury-on-ol

[oldunclemark]

Good stuff...'B'

[Mameluc]

Geez.....just a little attempt at humor..lighten up......this isnt CNN....

 

Peyton running the read option isnt funny?    I'm here all week!. 2 shows!!..

 

Okay, Okay. I think Champ Bailey retires after this season....he's at $10 mil or so...

 

They will replace Moreno and Koppen.....with youth...

 

Contracts for Decker and Thomas can increase in the years after Welker (only a 2-year deal) is gone..

 

I dont think they resign Welker at age 34

 

..and cap room was part of the season to let Elvis Dumerville go.

then sorry ..i guess is hard to know when its written if people is getting sarcastic or being real  (or at least for me)

sorry about that 

 

actually, thats the second time this has passed tome today..geez

[bayone]

then sorry ..i guess is hard to know when its written if people is getting sarcastic or being real  (or at least for me)

sorry about that 

 

actually, thats the second time this has passed tome today..geez

 

to let u know sometimes with all thats going on I too get confused on whats sarcastic or not , too much info overload at times

 

U R NOT ALONE MY FRIEND