UPDATE: Aaron Hernandez All discussion about past and present merge)

[Superman]

Yes, the CBA was specifically worded about arrests not convictions under the player conduct policy portion. So I believe even if AH is completely exonerated, he would still the owe money. I will try to find the link on this.

 

Getting arrested isn't necessarily breach of contract. I can think up a dozen what-if scenarios where this can be clearly illustrated. Wrongful arrest isn't entirely unheard of.

 

I'm not going to say that the CBA doesn't use the word "arrest" in the player conduct section, but I'm pretty sure the hundreds of attorneys that were working on that contract wouldn't have allowed the wrong language to be used.

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

Article 4, page 12

 

(a) Forfeitable Breach. Any player who (i) willfully fails to report, practice 

or play with the result that the player's ability to fully participate and contribute to the 

team is substantially undermined (for example, without limitation, holding out or leaving 

the squad absent a showing of extreme personal hardship); or (ii) is unavailable to the 

team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration; or (iii) is unavailable to the 

team due to a nonfootball injury that resulted from a material breach of Paragraph 3 of 

his NFL Player Contract; or (iv) voluntarily retires (collectively, any "Forfeitable 

Breach") may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or 

reporting bonus, and no other Salary, for each League Year in which a Forfeitable 

Breach occurs (collectively, "Forfeitable Salary Allocations"), as set forth below:

 

 

See the bolded. It mentions incarceration, but it specifies "due to conduct by [the player] that results in his incarceration." A player who is wrongfully accused and later completely exonerated has grounds for a dispute to any salary forfeiture.

 

By the way, that clause doesn't apply in Hernandez's case, because the Patriots released him. His unavailability can't be penalized by them. But I do believe the standard is set in that paragraph. And it wouldn't surprise me if similar provisions related to this kind of situation use the same language.

 

In taking a quick browse through the CBA, it seems like guarantees and contract breach are mostly a matter left to individual player contracts. The provision above is the most relevant one I saw.

[bayone]

Getting arrested isn't necessarily breach of contract. I can think up a dozen what-if scenarios where this can be clearly illustrated. Wrongful arrest isn't entirely unheard of.

 

I'm not going to say that the CBA doesn't use the word "arrest" in the player conduct section, but I'm pretty sure the hundreds of attorneys that were working on that contract wouldn't have allowed the wrong language to be used.

 

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

Article 4, page 12

 

 

See the bolded. It mentions incarceration, but it specifies "due to conduct by [the player] that results in his incarceration." A player who is wrongfully accused and later completely exonerated has grounds for a dispute to any salary forfeiture.

 

By the way, that clause doesn't apply in Hernandez's case, because the Patriots released him. His unavailability can't be penalized by them. But I do believe the standard is set in that paragraph. And it wouldn't surprise me if similar provisions related to this kind of situation use the same language.

 

In taking a quick browse through the CBA, it seems like guarantees and contract breach are mostly a matter left to individual player contracts. The provision above is the most relevant one I saw.

 

 

maybe its me but way to complicated to understand, will just have to wait & see

[Superman]

maybe its me but way to complicated to understand, will just have to wait & see

 

Yeah, I only play an attorney on the Internet. I'm sure the real lawyers will sort it all out in due time.

[schwamm]

Yeah, I only play an attorney on the Internet. I'm sure the real lawyers will sort it all out in due time.

From Kraft's comments today, paraphrased on SportsCenter, it sounds like the Pats aren't getting much, if any, relief from AH's cap hit.

[bayone]

ACLU is concerned about how Aaron Hernandez is being treated in jail

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/aclu-concerned-aaron-hernandez-being-treated-prison-003203774.html

[Superman]

From Kraft's comments today, paraphrased on SportsCenter, it sounds like the Pats aren't getting much, if any, relief from AH's cap hit.

 

I think cap relief would be retroactive. So they'd have their hands tied for right now, either way. If they eventually get a credit, good for them, but I'm sure they knew what the situation would be when they released him. And they did it anyway. 

 

As I've said from the beginning, I think the Patriots handled this situation about as well as it could be handled. I don't fault them for the draft choice, the contract extension, the release, the timing of the release, or anything else. 

[bayone]

AH was totally belligerent when police came to him out of concern for his health, & not because he was a suspect

 

Release of Warrants Info reveals Police went to AH home out of concern for his health as Lyod gas keys to missing rented car AH rented and as such were worried about AH

 

upon telling him they are investigating a murder he never bothered asking who was killed and slammed the door in Police face and locked it

 

According to police records, "Mr. Hernandez slammed the door and relocked it behind him." It continues, "Mr. Hernandez did not ask officers whose death was being investigated. Mr. Hernandez's demeanor did not indicate any concern for the death of any person."

 

Articles hives incite  about warrants, & investigation as well as some articles found    like drug scales , ammo , dirt apparently matching area of murder etc etc 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/warrants-aaron-hernandez-uncooperative-police-investigation-192308471.html 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216952/article/aaron-hernandez-argumentative-with-cops-records-say

 

LIVING WITH AH ( long article )

 

When officers arrived at the luxury townhouse, located a block away from the beach, they first thought the 23-year-old man—later identified as New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez—had tried to kill himself. But the young woman explained that the couple had a fight and he cut himself on glass.

 

“He was mad and punched a window,” said Hermosa Beach Police Department Lt. Tom Thompson. “He had been drinking. He was injured, so she called paramedics.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/05/living-with-aaron-hernandez-the-murder-suspect-s-troubled-life-off-the-field.html

[bayone]

The records, obtained by The Associated Press, also show a vehicle wanted in a double killing in Boston a year before had been rented in Hernandez's name.

 

alot of hear say on who did the shooting

 

Carlos Ortiz told Massachusetts investigators that another man, Ernest Wallace, said Hernandez shot Lloyd in an industrial park near Hernandez's home in North Attleborough.

 

Ortiz told police that during the drive Hernandez told Lloyd that Lloyd had been "chilling" with people Hernandez had problems with, the documents say. But Ortiz told police the two men shook hands and the problem seemed smoothed over. However, the Altima soon stopped, and everyone but Ortiz got out to urinate, according to Ortiz's account.

 

The witness told police he then heard gunshots before Hernandez and Wallace got back into the car without Lloyd and the car sped away.

 

Ortiz said he couldn't see who fired the shots because it was dark. Back at Hernandez's home, Ortiz said, Wallace asked him to get a small gun out from under the driver's seat. Ortiz said he did and gave it to Hernandez once they were inside.

 

Ortiz said he then went to sleep. When he woke up in the afternoon, according to his account, the three men returned the Altima and rented a Chrysler 300 before returning to Hernandez's home. Ortiz and Wallace then went to an apartment in the area that Hernandez and other football players used. Wallace let Ortiz in before leaving for a long time, the documents say. The two then drove to Bristol. Ortiz told police Wallace said Hernandez shot Lloyd.

 

eight search warrants were unsealed in Massachusetts after news organizations sought access to them. The warrants reveal the breadth of the investigation, with authorities scouring through everything from Hernandez's house to his phone to the contents of his team locker, which the Patriots emptied into a container after they released him.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-07-09/aaron-hernandez-murder-investigation-odin-lloyd-shooting-patriots

[Hans Moleman]

From Kraft's comments today, paraphrased on SportsCenter, it sounds like the Pats aren't getting much, if any, relief from AH's cap hit.

 

They won't. Had the team kept Hernandez on the roster, they'd have a much stronger case, but due to releasing him, Hernandez will get his guaranteed money.....at least until the lawyer bills start rolling in lol

[bayone]

Video on why a guilty verdict is harder than it seems to be to get,  particularly in this case

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/aaron-hernandez-associate-given-details-story-matches-prosecution-185514901.html

 

similarly another story after going over all the details release hiss week Re warrants and what was found

 

CONCLUDES

 

Bottom line: The accounts released Tuesday reflect poorly on Hernandez. But the defense hasn't yet challenged the evidence underlying these accounts. Moreover, even in the most flattering light for prosecutors, the accounts do not conclusively prove that Hernandez committed murder.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130709/aaron-hernandez-released-evidence/#ixzz2YowvcKBC

 

 

[bayone]

Forbes Magazine chimes in'

 

Despite CBA, Did Patriots Have Legal Right To Cut Aaron Hernandez Upon Arrest?

 

international lawyer and sports agent David Willig.

 

“As part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, if a player does something that reflects poorly on the club, they can terminate his contract,” explained Willig.

But this seems unconstitutional to me.

After all, O.J. Simpson was found innocent of killing his wife and her friend in 1995.

 

Aren’t we setting a dangerous precedent in this country by denying employment and wages to someone just because of an arrest regardless of how strong the evidence appears to be?

 

Maybe Hernandez or someone else will challenge the constitutionality of the CBA allowing the Patriots to terminate Hernandez before a trial or conviction. It seems like a case worth pursuing.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidlariviere/2013/07/12/despite-cba-did-patriots-have-legal-right-to-cut-aaron-hernandez/

[Superman]

Once Hernandez was arrested last month, the Patriots cut him loose. “As part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, if a player does something that reflects poorly on the club, they can terminate his contract,” explained Willig.

...

Aren’t we setting a dangerous precedent in this country by denying employment and wages to someone just because of an arrest regardless of how strong the evidence appears to be?

 

Maybe Hernandez or someone else will challenge the constitutionality of the CBA allowing the Patriots to terminate Hernandez before a trial or conviction. It seems like a case worth pursuing.

I don't understand why smart people have so much trouble with this (not you, Barry, I'm talking about this Forbes writer who has been covering sports and business for 30 years, according to his profile). An employer can fire an employee for whatever reason they choose. It's only considered unconstitutional if there's some sort of discrimination involved.

But the lawyer's explanation that this question is based on is incomplete. A team can terminate a player's contract whenever they want. Literally. The Ravens just guaranteed Flacco $52m, and technically speaking, they can terminate his contract tomorrow if they want. They don't need cause, the player doesn't have to do something that reflects poorly on the franchise, he doesn't need to be arrested, charged or convicted. They could release him for any reason they choose.

They'd have to deal with the cap ramifications, which are prohibitive. They'd also have no grounds to recoup any previously paid more or to withhold any yet to be paid guaranteed money. Those issues have nothing to do with their right to terminate the contract, though.

This has nothing to do with the constitution. Has nothing to do with probable cause, right to a trial by jury, presumption of innocence, etc. A player's contract can be terminated by the team at any point in time, just the same as the common worker can be terminated by his employer at any point in time. The only way the constitution comes into play is if the player was discriminated against on the basis of race/ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

[bayone]

I don't understand why smart people have so much trouble with this (not you, Barry, I'm talking about this Forbes writer who has been covering sports and business for 30 years, according to his profile). An employer can fire an employee for whatever reason they choose. It's only considered unconstitutional if there's some sort of discrimination involved.

But the lawyer's explanation that this question is based on is incomplete. A team can terminate a player's contract whenever they want. Literally. The Ravens just guaranteed Flacco $52m, and technically speaking, they can terminate his contract tomorrow if they want. They don't need cause, the player doesn't have to do something that reflects poorly on the franchise, he doesn't need to be arrested, charged or convicted. They could release him for any reason they choose.

They'd have to deal with the cap ramifications, which are prohibitive. They'd also have no grounds to recoup any previously paid more or to withhold any yet to be paid guaranteed money. Those issues have nothing to do with their right to terminate the contract, though.

This has nothing to do with the constitution. Has nothing to do with probable cause, right to a trial by jury, presumption of innocence, etc. A player's contract can be terminated by the team at any point in time, just the same as the common worker can be terminated by his employer at any point in time. The only way the constitution comes into play is if the player was discriminated against on the basis of race/ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

 

I agree with u , fire the man if u so choose , AH is surely reflecting bad on the team, Lawyer I guess is upset with what happened to innocent till proven guilty

[Jules]

 

 

 

[southwest1]

ACLU is concerned about how Aaron Hernandez is being treated in jail

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/aclu-concerned-aaron-hernandez-being-treated-prison-003203774.html

An interesting article there Barry concerning the harmful effects of psychological isolation & mental torture. Endless days of silence with very little human interaction isn't a pleasant experience at all. We're not talking about a weekend getaway from rowdy, energetic, obnoxious children here are we?

 

Think about that for a moment...Living in total silence for 12 months. Monks might take a vow of silence for pious purposes, but most people couldn't handle almost complete silence for 2 months let alone 12. In addition, I would also imagine that his wife will leave him & divorce him to rid herself of the embarrassment of marrying a convicted murderer too. Though Hernandez's wife could choose to take her commitment to Aaron seriously & not abandon him I suppose. Anything is possible right?

 

[southwest1]

Video on why a guilty verdict is harder than it seems to be to get,  particularly in this case

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/aaron-hernandez-associate-given-details-story-matches-prosecution-185514901.html

 

similarly another story after going over all the details release hiss week Re warrants and what was found

 

CONCLUDES

 

Bottom line: The accounts released Tuesday reflect poorly on Hernandez. But the defense hasn't yet challenged the evidence underlying these accounts. Moreover, even in the most flattering light for prosecutors, the accounts do not conclusively prove that Hernandez committed murder.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130709/aaron-hernandez-released-evidence/#ixzz2YowvcKBC

 

 

Bingo! The reporter in that Yahoo Sports video is right on the money. #1: No murder weapon was recovered means no ballistics match. #2: Attack the credibility of the witnesses for the state including what they were offered in exchange for their testimony. #3: The defense is under no obligation to prove Hernandez's innocence. Just puch holes in the states evidence & cast doubt in 1 jurer's mind about Hernandez's violent intent.

[southwest1]

 

 

 

Considering that no Jets WR, TE, or RB can find the endzone & the mob loves to dispose of witness problems in New Jersey, maybe that is where Jimmy Hoffa is buried? Hmmm...Just Kidding Jules! ;)

[southwest1]

I don't understand why smart people have so much trouble with this (not you, Barry, I'm talking about this Forbes writer who has been covering sports and business for 30 years, according to his profile). An employer can fire an employee for whatever reason they choose. It's only considered unconstitutional if there's some sort of discrimination involved.

But the lawyer's explanation that this question is based on is incomplete. A team can terminate a player's contract whenever they want. Literally. The Ravens just guaranteed Flacco $52m, and technically speaking, they can terminate his contract tomorrow if they want. They don't need cause, the player doesn't have to do something that reflects poorly on the franchise, he doesn't need to be arrested, charged or convicted. They could release him for any reason they choose.

They'd have to deal with the cap ramifications, which are prohibitive. They'd also have no grounds to recoup any previously paid more or to withhold any yet to be paid guaranteed money. Those issues have nothing to do with their right to terminate the contract, though.

This has nothing to do with the constitution. Has nothing to do with probable cause, right to a trial by jury, presumption of innocence, etc. A player's contract can be terminated by the team at any point in time, just the same as the common worker can be terminated by his employer at any point in time. The only way the constitution comes into play is if the player was discriminated against on the basis of race/ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

I guess my issue is a simple one: If a player who just signed a lucrative contract is arrested for murder, cut from a team, gets their contract terminated, & just for the sake of argument say is acquitted of Capital murder charges...What recourse does that now free player have to regain the money he lost? None. He's up a creek with a paddle. I don't give a darn about what the CBA says. It protects owners. What statutes in the CBA protect players? None. Zero, zilch, nada Superman. The owners have all the clout, money, leverage, & power & that royally ticks me off...

 

When SW1 speaks of CBA protections, I am referring to strictly financial protections beyond player signing bonuses...Even salary cap numbers & anti trust legislation directly benefits filthy rich owners..It's so 1 sided; it makes my stomach turn in knots & makes SW1 puke...No equality at all. Like a 90 to 10% split among partners...

[bayone]

An interesting article there Barry concerning the harmful effects of psychological isolation & mental torture. Endless days of silence with very little human interaction isn't a pleasant experience at all. We're not talking about a weekend getaway from rowdy, energetic, obnoxious children here are we?

 

Think about that for a moment...Living in total silence for 12 months. Monks might take a vow of silence for pious purposes, but most people couldn't handle almost complete silence for 2 months let alone 12. In addition, I would also imagine that his wife will leave him & divorce him to rid herself of the embarrassment of marrying a convicted murderer too. Though Hernandez's wife could choose to take her commitment to Aaron seriously & not abandon him I suppose. Anything is possible right?

 

 

From what I understand he is not married, has a child with fiancee / live in girlfriend  and sheriff says he wont let them get married so she can avoid taking the stand

 

The article on that I posted at some point ,  here are 2 on it i just looked up

 

July 2nd 

 

 

If Aaron Hernandez wants to marry his high school sweetheart and mother of his 7-month-old daughter, it's not going to happen while he's in the Bristol County jail, Bristol County Sheriff Thomas M. Hodgson told USA TODAY Sports on Tuesday.

 

Whether Hernandez wanted to tie the knot for love or courtroom strategy, Hodgson won't have it.

"I don't subscribe to that. I feel that those rights are things that you access on the outside, if you're a good citizen," he said. "We'll do everything we can to not have that happen."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/07/02/aaron-hernandez-marry-jail/2484793/

 

 

  here is a similar one from July 3rd

 

"If you want to get married, what you do is, you stay out of jail."

 

Well, in this case, Hernandez probably wants to get married so that he can limit the degree to which his fiancee can be compelled to testify against him, in the event that she knows anything about what's being alleged of Hernandez.

It's possible that Hernandez could circumvent Hodgson's authority, but the sheriff has also said he'll fight Hernandez trying to get married in prison as hard as he possibly can.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22622880/sheriff-wont-let-model-inmate-aaron-herandez-get-married-in-jail

[bayone]

Bingo! The reporter in that Yahoo Sports video is right on the money. #1: No murder weapon was recovered means no ballistics match. #2: Attack the credibility of the witnesses for the state including what they were offered in exchange for their testimony. #3: The defense is under no obligation to prove Hernandez's innocence. Just puch holes in the states evidence & cast doubt in 1 jurer's mind about Hernandez's violent intent.

 

Reasonable doubt in just 1 persons mind, a high priced lawyer Vs a ton of circumstantial evidence

 

as someone else said, can they really find an impartial jury in the first place